ged in the onion bag

This is just fanciful garbage. You never answer any of the facts I point out and don’t take account of the truth of ‘our’ particular situation, I.e, squad not great, recruitment isn’t clever and we have no money. I recognise that for example, Notts Forest got promoted using the loan system and it worked for them. Loans can be very useful. I am not blind to it. I recognise other teams use loans but it’s all temporary and we need to create a squad of quality and depth so we can compete without money, that’s where we’re at right now. However, and this is the crux where your argument fails, other teams like Forest go up and spend lots of money, £300m…. Burnley just spent the best part of £80m and even that’s not really helping them is it. How much do you think we will spend if we go up? Skipp proved it, we were never ever going to be able to buy him but we couldn’t replace him. But he sure meant we didn’t develop someone for that CDM position did we. Other clubs could buy him or a replacement. It’s not like we are creating a team that’s ‘a pain in the backside to play against, that’s hard to beat first and foremost is it? That’s the starting point for progress, not the EPL fortune. What happened to the last two fortunes and parachute payments, where is it all? Your deluded, either that or please explain how your plan using loans is going to succeed except in the short-term, because you’ve offered absolutely nothing reasonable or feasible in this debate apart from comparison to ‘other clubs’ who have either got backing or are stagnating without a plan like we now are. Then of course you have to add the likelihood of this recruitment team performing wonders in the market and based on the evidence before us, that’s unlikely, or do you know something I don’t? Ramsey played reasonably well a youngster but exactly what benefit did he bring us last season? If loans did improve us and got us promoted, based on all the evidence, the quality of this squad, the fact we concede so many goals, the lack of creativity, the recent recruitment, the finances, what would your expectations be for promotion, how will we compete, how quickly would you get on the managers back for not performing miracles? Would you be happy to see us get thumped week in and out. How would we avoid that scenario? Why would this time be different to the last two (especially since the team and the manager are significantly inferior right now. Of course we are unlikely to go up, with or without loans but either way in your plan, I can only see it ignores development and long-term progress. Convince me otherwise with rational argument. By the way, Hayden may have been a loan to buy, but (and I said it at the time we signed him) he was never the answer in any circumstance. That’s a recruitment failing, another one of the many. To my knowledge we still have the same staff working there, they just have a new boss. A boss that’s young, inexperienced and yet to prove himself. I hope he does prove himself but he’s got one hell of a job on his hands.

Are you seriously using a 7 game run of games against poor sides in the main and with unconvincing performances as your barometer?

The 3 teams who got promoted had lots of loans, look at them right now. We aren’t anywhere near being ‘difficult to beat’ which some of those were. Leicester have financial backers, I don’t care about other teams and how they will succeed and then likely fail. I gave you examples of some of our loans, even mentioned something about the quality of our recruitment that’s an evident problem. Interesting how you completely ignore those er ‘facts’. Where am I in complete denial? I know loans are part of football, always short-term fixes that fail to address sustainability in our case. It seems others on here agree with me.

It’s a mid table squad and it’s still in decline right now! What on earth is ‘a play-off squad’? What’s that mean and what’s the point if it’s so far off an EPL squad?

No they aren’t! Recruitment is the reason we are in this mess and loans are recruited. We haven’t proved very good at it have we.

Couldn’t disagree more! Last thing we need is chasing promotion with this squad. We need to develop our own, not other teams players. Skipp helped get us promoted… we didn’t have the money to replace him or the recruitment to facilitate improvements and wasted the opportunity. Ramsey didn’t help us get promoted but got in the way of us developing. Hayden didn’t help us get promoted. Marquinhos…. Say no more! We couldn’t compete with this squad and we don’t need the distraction of another failure right now.

Yes, it’s a poor squad. Interested to know the direction of travel Knapper intends for us. Going to take some seriously brave decisions.

This is a ridiculous thread full of comments from the clueless. The lad was what, 19, had proven to be pretty good before coming to Norwich and everyone was thrilled when we signed him..... thing is, its a team game and no one functions well in a poor side unless they have the name Messi. We couldn't keep the ball, we couldn't defend, the team got pulled all over the place by much better players and so were never set in a shape to allow us to play creatively. Recruitment was utterly shocking, blame the club not the players.... Gilmour, Sargent, Tzolis, Rashica, we failed them all. They were never the right players at that time. Expectation was so far from being realistic. No wonder they all got frustrated with the situation they had come into. If you have any clue about football, you will put the blame at Webbers door for all of these failings.

That only reinforces you are pretty clueless about football with answers like that. No it doesn't reinforce your point, they won last week and the manager (who some fans on here want) has made 6 changes. They are playing Leicester away, understandable he would adopt a different approach. It hasn't worked but that's nothing to do with Mumba. Like you to justify why Mumba isn't the answer when he plays wide left and has been quite productive this season in a struggling team whereas we play Onel who hasn't been effective at all.

He's sub! Wrong answer!

Can't guarantee the right recruitment, they still have the same staff, its not just on Knapper! Then of course the recruitment is stiffled by a lack of funds. Despite Webber wasting the money, the chances are we wouldn't have the money to make the difference. But in the effort to get up, we don't develop. That's the problem, that's why Wagner picks teams with no kids in it, that's why we aren't developing. That's why its not worth the gamble on promotion. Its why Gibbs needs to play at CDM, Sainz, Rowe, Warner all need to be in the team. Its why you keep Omo and Mumba.

We've had that windfall twice recently, where is it now? It gets taken by some signings and wages. There has never been any left after the season, just a relegation and a worse team. We need to start developing with a patient approach and stop chasing this ridiculous fortune that gets spent in the effort to stay up. We'd have nothing left, just an embarrasing season getting thumped and a poor squad still. Just look at whats happened the previous times and this squad is the worst we've had since well before Farke.

Apparently we are £100m in debt, thats about what we would get for a promotion. There is no money, there is no squad, it just doesn't stack up. Still wonder... What do you honestly think would happen if we went up with a squad significantly inferior to the last 2 times we went up? How would we improve it? What gives you confidence that we would do better than the last times? What do you think they would do with that EPL money given the debt we have? Here's another question, if we chase promotion, how do we develop our youngsters? Answers are all that we will struggle or we won't develop.... we will end up in a worse place, i.e. we'll keep deteriorating.

Ditto...... Love to know why you and some fans are happy for us chasing this promotion. What's the point.... We've done that for the past two seasons at the complete expense of any development whatsoever and consequently we are in this mess with such a poor squad. Here's a question, lets say we get to the play-offs (we won't) then somehow miraculously win promotion like Luton did. What then? This squad has one player of EPL quality, Gunn. We don't have money, we don't have a capable recruitment team and we don't have a squad. Why would you want to get promoted right now? Don't get me wrong, I want us to be in the Premier League but only if we can compete. What do you honestly think would happen if we went up with a squad significantly inferior to the last 2 times we went up? What do you think they would do with that EPL money given the debt we have? How would this team (even with some additions) compete? When will we ever develop a squad that might be able to be competitive? Be interested in your thoughts. For me, chasing promotion is a sure way for this team to be heading for League 1 next season.

Love to know why you and some fans are happy for us chasing this promotion. What's the point.... We've done that for the past two seasons at the complete expense of any development whatsoever and consequently we are in this mess with such a poor squad. Here's a question, lets say we get to the play-offs (we won't) then somehow miraculously win promotion like Luton did. What then? This squad has one player of EPL quality, Gunn. We don't have money, we don't have a capable recruitment team and we don't have a squad. Why would you want to get promoted right now? Don't get me wrong, I want us to be in the Premier League but only if we can compete. What do you honestly think would happen if we went up with a squad significantly inferior to the last 2 times we went up? What do you think they would do with that EPL money given the debt we have? How would this team (even with some additions) compete? When will we ever develop a squad that might be able to be competitive? Be interested in your thoughts. For me, chasing promotion is a sure way for this team to be heading for League 1 next season.

Stay in touch with who?

Ridiculous, no common sense, opponent has done nothing to deserve the penalty. The game has gone now.

Just smacks that he picks his mates..... Sunday league manager! Unimpressed by this guy. No chance of promotion, no chance of competing if we achieve it and still no development going on. How does this fit with Knappers rhetoric?

Kenny McLean plays CDM at the expense of good collective defending as a team.... he's simply not got the defenders intuition and doesn't react to danger or position himself correctly like natural defenders do. For that reason, he's not going to transfer to a CB either. Yes, as a one off and dependent on the opponents attacking threats but he's not a long-term answer..... if he is, it will be to the detriment of our defensive ability. The only reason fans are raving about him now is that by dropping deeper than he usually plays, it allows him more free time on the ball and its easier for him to pick a pass. The fact he's one of our better players reflects on the failure of the manager and his teammates to find decent form. For evidence, just check out how many shots we have allowed our opponents throughout this season.

Chill out!

Neither is Barnes, never ever!

I agree with this, it could even be implemented right now to our benefit... all he has to do is put Gibbs in the CDM role and push the other two forward. Gibbs gets the chance to develop, we have a player in there that will sense danger quicker than McLean does and screen the defence better. We aren't going down and we certainly need to steer clear of going up right now so why not! It also gives us a more productive forward option with Sara.

Is he over 30?

How do loans fit in with development of a team.... we've already got lots of oldies preventing the youngsters from getting a game (that for me is why Wagner has to go), bring in loans, there's less chance for our own. We need bravery now, a club prepared to give the youngsters a go. Some of these older players need to be benched and play lesser roles for the benefit of progression. But before we start bringing in a manager, even discussing it, surely BK needs to develop a plan of what we are going to be about! That's why I'd bring in Neil Adams on a temporary basis while the club sorts itself out. Love to know why this manager or that manager is a good fit for us right now. We're at a point of what appears massive change, how does anyone know who would fit.

Why is he a good fit for us?