Jim Smith

McNally was being paid too much in my view, particularly in seasons where we failed but then in the interests of fairness and balance he did at least oversee 4 seasons out of the previous 5 in the premier league so his salary was never a major issue for the club. Also rarely remarked upon was the fact we made a £9m profit whilst getting relegated and paying back £2m in directors loans. hardly smacks of throwing the kitchen sink at survival but then I suppose looking at the sh*t Neil wasted millions on towards the end its probably a good thing he was not allowed to spend another £11 million.

[quote user="Icecream Snow"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Just read the article and the headline is misleading saying Howson wants out when it is in fact his agent merely saying he will not sign a contract extension offered to him which in itself surely shows the club have a desire to keep him rather than generate some cash ?The quote attributed to Webber i am sure is a previous generalisation with regard to finance and not specifically aimed at Howson. My view is it is Archant trying for a change to create a story rather than copy a story from some other source which is their norm.[/quote]I think they''ve been fed the story by Webber. After the McNally era (and the falling out within it) they''d already been quick to flag articles as "Rumour"Bearing in mind Nick Mashiter announced our new scouting setup back in April 29th, https://twitter.com/nickmashiter/status/858345900439220225 he''s either in the know, or gets fed stories from Stuart Webber. Surprised me when he put out a story about Howson £4m to Leeds which was quickly shot down, but that was probably just Webber''s opening salvo.[/quote] This. Amazed at how many of our fans have bought it and are banging on about "he want''s to leave" or "don''t want players who don''t want to play for us." This is the club manufacturing a situation where they can justify selling Howson without too big a fan backlash and not a player or his agent forcing a move against the club''s will.

[quote user="Highland Canary"]Firesale omnishambles. Sticking with Hughton? Supporting Neil? It''s a total fiasco. And to think we played PL football once. You couldn''t make it up.[/quote] Of course last season we were being told that we could give Neil time because promotion last season was not essential. Now, largely because the board once again did not act quickly enough, we are dismantling the entire squad this summer. next of course we will be told we have to be patient because rebuilding takes time, time we don''t really have because "self-funding, debt free at all costs" clubs in the championship without premiership tv monies will be the poor relations.

[quote user="GJP"]Not overly surprised. Especially since his 2 big mates at the club have left. Having said that, with 2 years left on his contract it does sound like this could be a fuss over nothing. Maybe even a story being made where there isn''t a story.[/quote] Its not a "non story" because what this story tells you is that he is going to be sold this summer. This story has either been put out by his agent or the club to prepare the ground for the sale and get the fans used to the idea. It seems most likely its come from the club given the "will reluctantly listen to offers" line. so although it means nothing until an offer comes in this is a clear indication that we are looking to sell him.

I would add that if we can get good money I can see the rationale for selling Howson, provided that we can use the money to bring in a couple of decent defenders. he''s a great player but not as consistently influential as he should be and goes missing in games too often. What I object to here is the spin from the club again, really worries me that this is a massive downsizing exercise being spun as rebuilding.

[quote user="ZLF"]No surprise to be honest, but I Would expect far more than £5m but also expect him to leave. Just confirms loyalty is a one way street, fans to club.[/quote] Do you not understand that they will have offered him an extension on about half of the wages he is currently on, possibly purely with the aim of being able to then claim that "they have to sell" because he''s refused to sign a contract extension? He is not forcing this move this is the club looking for an excuse to cash in that they think the fans will tolerate. I think its pretty cheap from the club to be honest to try and portray the player as forcing the move.

A more accurate headline would be "Club wants to sell Howson and puts out cynical spin to prepare the fan base." Unfortunately too many fans buy everything that comes out of our beloved club and is board hook, line and sinker. I can see arguments either way for selling Howson or keeping him, all dependant of course on what anyone offers for him but our desperation to sell this summer is beginning to really p**s me off. We must not sacrifice our last season of parachute payments in the same pathetic way we wasted last season. We should be having a real go this season and selling anyone on vaguely decent wages to try and copy Huddersfield Town and get promotion on a shoestring is not the way to go about it.

I hope there is nothing in it. Sheffield Wednesday have appeared a very dull team under his leadership.

Naismith was a rubbish buy for the reason that we paid a lot of money for him, it appears did not get any relegation clause reducing his wages when we went down and at the time we simply didn''t need him and had much more pressing other priorities, just as we did throughout Neil''s tenure where attacking midfielders were consistently signed at the expense of the defence.

I have no problem with releasing the players we have released so far which should reduce the wage bill significantly. i''d also have absolutely no problem with moving on Naismith and Jarvis if we can find someone prepared to take them (which I doubt). However, I will be very unhappy if we start selling players we would ideally want to keep in the name of this restructuring,. We still have a year on parachute payments and we must do everything we can to take advantage of that. if that means the likes of Howson have to be sold for less money in a years time if we have failed to go up then so be it and obviously with any new signings their contracts will have to reflect the fact that in a years time we may well be operating on a significantly reduced budget but that will be no bad thing as it will hopefully mean a return to signing promising lower league players or well scouted foreign gems rather than chucking millions at rubbish like Naismith and Wildshut. I do not like the narrative coming out of the club and being bought by the media at present that we have to completely "rebuild" and go back to square one and that it may take some time. The side that stuffed QPR and Reading towards the end of the season should pretty much all still be around next season and are more than good enough to finish top 6 in this league. One look at the utter dross that made the playoffs this season shows you how badly we underperformed due to the idiot decision to retain Neil and then sack him too late and not even really attempt to make a late run to the playoffs by not appointing a new manager. The board failed us big time and they get no patience or sympathy from me next season if we are not challenging. All we need is a vaguely competent coach and three or fours reasonable defensive signings. We do not need a "fire sale" to fund that and I will be very disappointed if any players we would want to keep are sold.

Always been a bit torn on Howson. Technically he is very good and he has some extremely good games and scores some vital goals. But he does also go missing too often for me and perhaps is rather symptomatic of our whole midfield this season who have tended to look great, at home when on top and enjoying plenty of possession but have been found wanting in the crucial away games where they needed to stand up and be counted. He''s just never quite taken games by the scruff of the neck and controlled them in the way I''ve felt he is potentially capable of doing. For that reason I would not see it as the end of the world if we got an offer too good to refuse and sold him this summer but it would have to be a very good offer. £4m would be an utter joke and is less than half of hi true valuation when you look at recent comparables and any sale for a poor fee and to any team in the same division as us would really send out a very poor message to fans and players alike about our ambitions for next season and where we are as a club.

Josh has really come on since Irvine took over. Feel it has illustrated how Neil overplayed Jacob and underplayed Josh to the detriment of both players really. Josh should have had more game time once his confidence was up after he scored at Everton. Exciting to think what they both may achieve next season with a full year at first team level now under their belts.

[quote user="westcoastcanary"]It''s testimony to JH''s attitude and character that he has contributed so much to our success in the time he''s been here while virtually never being played in the position in which he excelled as captain of Leeds -- as an attacking midfielder playing behind a CF. Never purporting to be a defensive midfielder, he has nevertheless played wherever he has been asked. How can a player be expected to stamp his authority on games in those circumstances? Clubs will be queueing up to sign him if we are genuinely prepared to let him go, Lambert''s Wolves for one.[/quote] I really disagree with the suggestion that he''s better as an attacking midfielder. Games really pass him by when he plays there. I think he is better making runs from the more deep lying position he has played in for us recently. That said he still has too many quiet games for my liking. He good enough to have more influence, more often.

I wouldn''t want to sell him as I think he''s a good player and it would also send out entirely the wrong message. Our front 6 or 7 are plenty good enough and I hope that Webber does not get carried away and break up the squad unnecessarily. That said, Howson is a player who I think can flatter to deceive a bit. He''s technically excellent and can have some brilliant games but he can also be totally anonymous rather too often for my liking and I struggle to think of many games where he has really bossed the midfield. I could see the rationale for cashing in on a big offer (if we got one) although on balance I would prefer to keep him.

Its also a position where we have arguably too many options. Pritchard, Wes, Naismith and Maddison are all competing for 2 or possibly 1 place in the starting line up. Of the four if one has to go then Naismith would be my preference because I rate Pritch and Wes higher and I don''t want to see Maddison''s progress blocked or opportunities constrained by another manager feeling they have to play Naismith because he costs us so much money. If he stays and comes good then great but I would not be bothered if we managed to move him on.

[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]Russell Martin seems to be being criticised for doing things that he''s been criticised for not doing if that makes sense? Accused of not being a leader, then gets criticised when he shows some leadership in an interview![/quote] Martin has always shown leadership in interviews. Nobody (sane) is criticising him for what he says in interviews. he seems a decent presence in the dressing room and given it looks like being a time of transition i''d keep him around for next season as a squad player as I think a degree of continuity and some wise older heads will be important. The problem though has been Martin''s lack of leadership on the pitch and also his continued selection at centre back. We have been lacking a spine and character and from my perspective some of that flows from the captain. Its difficult for a captain to lead by example and to command true respect when its fairly clear to all around that he is one of the weaker links in the side and is at fault for quite a lot of the calamitous defending.

Depends on whether you regard being "professional" as giving good interviews or doing your actual job properly on the pitch. There has been a lot of the former and little of the latter. If he starts regularly for us at centre back next season I will be very disappointed.

I agree. Nothing that has been announced this week has been a shock to me nor indeed is any of it "revolutionary" thinking or some sign of Webber having anything more than a bit of basic common sense (which bodes well because many in football don''t even seem to have that). 7 players on big money are out of contract and we are not renewing them because by and large they have not performed and proven themselves worthy of new contracts and of course with half an eye to freeing up the wages. Perhaps Ruddy and Bennett the only two you raise a slight eyebrow at and wonder if we were tempted to offer them new deals but in truth Ruddy has not been great since his injury and Bennett has never kicked on in the way that we all hoped. I still think he will prove to be a decent defender under the right manager but perhaps best for all concerned to make a fresh start.

[quote user="Horse Renoir"]I can quite easily believe Naismith was on 50k in our PL season. I find it really hard to believe he''s still on that now. McNally before he left stated catagorically several times that every player has a relegation wage drop clause. It could be that to sign Naismith the clause was softened somewhat but I''d imagine he can''t be on any more than 40k, don''t know how that reporter has got his information or has just been told the wages they got when the first signed. For most of our players the drop is supposedly 40%, these figures being banded about in recent days suggests that might not have been the case, the club might have acted rather desperately in the past couple of years and Webber could be leaking this information to let fans know just how difficult the current situation is and preparing some fans for letting players go ''on the cheap''[/quote] My understanding is that the delay over Naismith signing was allegedly because he was not prepared to agree to a wage reduction on relegation clause and that out of desperation to sign him we may (also allegedly) have agreed to not have one in the end. If that is the case he probably is on £50K because he''s probably still on his prem wages. I cannot prove this, just what I have been told.

I find myself torn on Naismith although still come down on the side of the fence that says offload him this summer if we can primarily because we are overloaded in that position and I would prefer to have Maddison snapping at the heels of Pritchard and Wes rather than finding his progress blocked again. Naismith has shown glimpses at times this season of being a decent championship player and in some games he links up well with the other midfielders but then in other games he can look unbelievably poor and can barely control the ball. he''s certainly not looked anything like a £7m footballer and has been a pretty disastrous signing.

I don''t care about his captaincy to be honest. He seems a decent bloke who has some leadership qualities although not quite in the league of Holty. My problem with Martin is that at CB his positioning is awful, he gets caught underneath crosses and beaten in the air a lot and I think every other CB we have also plays worse alongside him than they do certain offers because he''s natural instincts and movements are not those of a centre back.

The other defenders were not the ones cupping their ears to the crowd last week. Bennett was rubbish and should go with Bassong and Turner but watch their third goal and the break they had shortly beforehand and look at Martins positioning. He is always out of position, regularly the wrong side of his man and I think must be incredibly hard to play alongside because he does not have the natural instincts or movements of a centre half. Three new defenders needed this summer please.

It''s no coincidence that any defensive combination which includes Martin at CB is awful. Bennett has lost it as well and should be shipped out with Bassong and Turner but ever since this lunacy of playing a Martin at CN started our defence has been sh*t.

It this is true then I think it is a promising sign of Webber being determined to have a real shake up. Obviously didn''t take him long to form a view as to the quality of our existing behind the scenes "talent."

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Given the size of the rebuild over the summer it will be important to maintain some players who have shown an element of desire to be at Norwich - there are probably none with more evidence to that in the squad currently than Russell Martin. I think he is a serviceable centre back/right back in the Championship but shouldn''t be a regular starter. Also, realistically if you are clearing out players as far down the list as Martin then you are putting far to much pressure on bringing in new players over the summer. Norwich are probably going to need 3 new centre backs as it is, no need to make that 4 when RM is still around and willing to play. Poor old Webber has enough on his hands already.[/quote] I don''t buy this "size of the rebuild" line. Most who need to leave are out of contract. Most of the starting 11 from Saturday are good enough and will be around. Overall we need 5 or 6 in including a couple of decent defenders but it''s hardly mission impossible.