why the "outers" cant win.....

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]

Not the scientific method then...[/quote]Indeed Beefy. Not a scientific method . And not one that proves your  "point" (whatever it is ) at all.I''ve never hidden the fact that I do not think Chris Hughton is not the right manager for this club. And still don''t. You clearly do not agree. That''s what a forum like this is all about. And I do not see what I said is in any way at odds with that. Or in what way that is running the club (as opposed to Hughton) downAs for your second "example"...well , if anyone seriously suggests that there has been the rotten smell of disharmony within the club over the last few months, they must have been living on a different planet. Does that apply to YOU, Mr Beefy ?!No , you''ll have to do a lot better than that. Or , of course you could just give up now, because you are searching for "evidence" that doesn''t exist.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

So you''ve stated that you ''lost faith in the board''. Perhaps you''d care to explain how that is not running the Club down?

I certainly do disagree on this ''disharmony'' point. It seems pretty clear to me that the players are right behind the manager and by association the board. The only disharmony comes from the ''outers'' such as yourself, who seek to criticise the Club and advocate removal of the manager without having any real working knowledge of the costs that would bring, the alternatives available and without due consideration to the fact that our league position really isn''t all that bad.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]So you''ve stated that you ''lost faith in the board''. Perhaps you''d care to explain how that is not running the Club down?

I certainly do disagree on this ''disharmony'' point. It seems pretty clear to me that the players are right behind the manager and by association the board. The only disharmony comes from the ''outers'' such as yourself, who seek to criticise the Club and advocate removal of the manager without having any real working knowledge of the costs that would bring, the alternatives available and without due consideration to the fact that our league position really isn''t all that bad.[/quote]Just give it up Beefy (or at least revert to your other screen name !)Get your quotes right... eg  ''beginning to lose faith'' is not the same as ''lost faith''.  Different tense. Small, but important distinction.And when did I mention anything about player disharmony ? Not the same as disharmony amongst supporters.  But of course that wouldn''t fit in with the stuff you are making up, would it ?As I say, just go back to your other name, and , as usual, pick on people who are less able to defend themselves. Or, better still, GIVE UP.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

I have no other name Reg. Yet another claim you make with no evidence to support it.

So could you confirm whether you continue to ''lose faith'' - is it an ongoing project of yours? Please expand on your current thoughts toward the board, and what exactly you meant when you said you were beginning to lose faith. That still sounds like doing down the Club to me.

Now, you ask when you mentioned anything about player disharmony. Well, you suggested a ''rotten smell'' within the Club and you cited the Everton and Fulham defeats as evidence for this. That seems to suggest that you are citing those performances as evidence for the rotten smell, indicating disharmony betwixt players and management. But please, do correct me if I''m wrong.

[The gut 0]

Mmmm quite a worrying thing this thread.

The op issuing instructions to fans.

Another who thinks not agreeing with everything the club does or doesn''t do is running the club down.

And when did a football discussion require scientific facts.

For me it is fair enough that some fans want Hughton to stay, some want him to go, some don''t know and some don''t care. No one can say that they are right, it isn''t a black and white answer. It is opinion and opinions can be backed by stats or feeling.

What I find amazing and a sad reflection of this board is how many posters, be they inners or outers, who try to impose their views on everyone else and attack those who disagree.

It does become quite clear who struggle with freedom of speech.

FFS

[Beefy is a legend 224]

Not true gut.

Firstly, I haven''t said that not agreeing with everything the Club does or doesn''t do is running the Club down. I''ve said that singling out the likes of Hughton, McNally, and as far as Delia and MWJ is running the Club down. It is my view that is grossly ungrateful and naive to criticise the board and directors just because we aren''t playing champagne football every week. This is a golden era for the Club - 3 seasons in the top league and debt free. It''s been some time since we''ve enjoyed that kind of success on and off the pitch.

Now, of course opinions and beliefs can be backed by stats or feelings, and I''m not saying that a football discussion requires scientific facts. What I am saying is that the scientific method, by which I mean forming beliefs using reason and evidence, is still the best way to form a rational view, rather than going by ''gut instinct''. For example, I remember one fan on here decrying our use of inverted wingers, yet the evidence across the league this season suggests that they do create and score more goals. That is an opinion that was formed on gut instinct which has been disproved by solid statistical evidence.

I haven''t come on this thread to impose my view and attack others. I would ask you to trace back this thread to the first ad hominem attack by Reggie, where he described my post as ''absolute cobblers''. That sort of language is unnecessary and disrepectful, and I''ve not sort to respond in kind, only to substantiate my argument with reason and evidence.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

No. Thought not, Beefy.All allegations and no evidence. as you display in your "alter ego" shall we say ?And yes. I reffered to what you said as "cobblers". Because that is indeed the best way to describe the lies you continue to peddle such as accusing large groups of genuine fans wanting to ''hound the manager out''.But, as in your other incarnation, lying is something you do a lot .

[Beefy is a legend 224]

I honestly have no idea what you''re talking about. My name is Lee, I live in Colney, I have no other accounts on here.

Like it or not, plenty of fans have expressed the desire for us to have lost against Hull in the belief that it would ''get rid'' of the manager. That, along with the banners, booing, widening of the criticism to the board, is, in my view, ''Hounding out the manager''.

[Bill 1,788]

The real questioin is whether Beefy is covering whilst LDC has a lie down or is he actually LDC  ?

[Beefy is a legend 224]

I''m no more LDC than you are City2nd mate.

[Bill 1,788]

I presume you don''t want the rest of us to take that claim in the context of your other claims ?

[Beefy is a legend 224]

Feel free to. I''m still awaiting for the evidence as to where I''ve said anything untrue.

[Bill 1,788]

Whilst you are waiting perhaps you could point out where I stated that you had said anything untrue

ps there is a clue there

[Guest]

And right on queue, it''s City1st with another ad-hom and pointless argument. I am both shocked and surprised.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

I confirmed that I am not LDC. You said:

"I presume you don''t want the rest of us to take that claim in the context of your other claims ?"

Correct me if I''m wrong but that looks like a suggestion that I had said things that were untrue, suggesting that my assertion regarding not being LDC was also untrue.

[Bill 1,788]

It takes two to ''argue'' so what is your reason for posting ?

[Beefy is a legend 224]

Careful I.S - someone will accuse you of being LDC in disguise...

[Beefy is a legend 224]

[quote user="City1st"]It takes two to ''argue'' so what is your reason for posting ?

[/quote]

Not sure if this was aimed at me or I.S?

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]Not true gut.

Firstly, I haven''t said that not agreeing with everything the Club does or doesn''t do is running the Club down. I''ve said that singling out the likes of Hughton, McNally, and as far as Delia and MWJ is running the Club down. It is my view that is grossly ungrateful and naive to criticise the board and directors just because we aren''t playing champagne football every week.[/quote]Firstly, what is wrong with running the club down? Sometimes clubs deserve it. I have happily done it from time to time. Secondly, the distinction you seem to be trying to draw between criticism and running the club down.is illusory. All criticism is effectively running the club down. Thirdly, you are welcome to your opinion that some specific criticism is fair and some specific criticism (as above) is not. But that is all that is - your opinion, based on you views.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="City1st"]I presume you don''t want the rest of us to take that claim in the context of your other claims ?[/quote]City 1st.   Whenever you get posters that disagree with you and you have no argument, out come the petty accusations, and conspiracy theories.   Ridiculous.Believe it or not there are quite a lot of posters that disagree with your stance on Hughton.  Quite a lot of the comment since the Hull match has shown that most fans will be happy as long as results improve - because that would mean we are being successful.    The CH issue will take a back seat if we continue getting results.  Most people also accept that he is here to stay until the end of the season, at least.   That is the realistic view.   Oh - and don''t bother with any more accusations or putting silly pictures up again to try and ridicule me - again. It doesn''t work and it just makes you look stupid. 

[Beefy is a legend 224]

True enough Purple. I happen to believe that our Club doesn''t deserve it right now, given that we are in the most successful era we''ve had for 20 years.

Of course, we all have our opinions. It''s just that some are based more on reason and evidence. Others are based on emotional reaction and instinct. I know which provides a more solid pathway to truth.

[morty 0]

This is a good read.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25810077

[Beefy is a legend 224]

Don''t worry about it LDC, I''ve gathered I''m gaining the upper hand given that the only thing coming in the opposite direction is an ad-hom attack. And of course being compared to your good self, which I take as a backhanded compliment.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="City1st"]I presume you don''t want the rest of us to take that claim in the context of your other claims ?[/quote]City 1st.   Whenever you get posters that disagree with you and you have no argument, out come the petty accusations, and conspiracy theories.   Ridiculous.Believe it or not there are quite a lot of posters that disagree with your stance on Hughton.  Quite a lot of the comment since the Hull match has shown that most fans will be happy as long as results improve - because that would mean we are being successful.    The CH issue will take a back seat if we continue getting results.  Most people also accept that he is here to stay until the end of the season, at least.   That is the realistic view.   Oh - and don''t bother with any more accusations or putting silly pictures up again to try and ridicule me - again. It doesn''t work and it just makes you look stupid. 

[/quote]more liesyou have no idea what most fans think

[Beefy is a legend 224]

I think I posted that link on this thread earlier Morty, which kicked all this off! A top article, really showing the solidarity of the players with the management. I''m proud of those lads for wanting to shove the criticism back in the ''outers'' faces.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]True enough Purple. I happen to believe that our Club doesn''t deserve it right now, given that we are in the most successful era we''ve had for 20 years.

Of course, we all have our opinions. It''s just that some are based more on reason and evidence. Others are based on emotional reaction and instinct. I know which provides a more solid pathway to truth.[/quote]

perhaps you could point out where these attacks on the club are coming from - other than your fervent imagination .............. or lying as it is otherwise known

[The gut 0]

For me the best part about being a football fan is basing everything on emotional reaction and instinct.

If I enjoyed watching maths lessons I''d do that instead of going to football.

I think this is one of the reasons fans disagree so much - somewhere along the line football has bred a generation of stat lovers. I can see why these type of fans would favour our Chris.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]True enough Purple. I happen to believe that our Club doesn''t deserve it right now, given that we are in the most successful era we''ve had for 20 years.

Of course, we all have our opinions. It''s just that some are based more on reason and evidence. Others are based on emotional reaction and instinct. I know which provides a more solid pathway to truth.[/quote]I believe when a club is being successful, with fans lulled into a kind of happy acceptance, it is all the more reason to look critically at decisions. To point out any mistakes that are not being noticed in the euphoria. But that is a general observation rather than a reference to this debate.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]I think I posted that link on this thread earlier Morty, which kicked all this off! A top article, really showing the solidarity of the players with the management. I''m proud of those lads for wanting to shove the criticism back in the ''outers'' faces.[/quote]Ah right, sorry, I stopped paying attention several pages ago[;)]Yeah I liked hearing about the solidarity, as it shows the people claiming dressing room splits, as talking a load of carp.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="City1st"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="City1st"]I presume you don''t want the rest of us to take that claim in the context of your other claims ?[/quote]City 1st.   Whenever you get posters that disagree with you and you have no argument, out come the petty accusations, and conspiracy theories.   Ridiculous.Believe it or not there are quite a lot of posters that disagree with your stance on Hughton.  Quite a lot of the comment since the Hull match has shown that most fans will be happy as long as results improve - because that would mean we are being successful.    The CH issue will take a back seat if we continue getting results.  Most people also accept that he is here to stay until the end of the season, at least.   That is the realistic view.   Oh - and don''t bother with any more accusations or putting silly pictures up again to try and ridicule me - again. It doesn''t work and it just makes you look stupid.  [/quote]more liesyou have no idea what most fans think[/quote]Oh I think I''ve got a grasp of the reality of the situation, thanks.  No-one is happy that we have been struggling for goals, but given that the board appear to be backing CH and the players plainly are behind him too - it only needs one or two good results to make people happier with the situation overall.