Superb Judgment by the Board

[TCCANARY 263]

Now that we''ve deservedly steered our way to be comfortably out of the relegation places after a series of fixtures that would be a challenge to all but the top few of the Premier League it looks like our excellent 11th place last season is bearing fruit, the ability it gave us to secure the signings of some excellent international talent should not be under estimated.

From his recent interview it seems that Robert Snodgrass have given us an insight into the cool calm world of our manager and emphasised that his experience and tactical awareness has and will bring us further rewards for the efforts put in by the players, the management team and the board. It would be easy in our recent position to draw a false conclusion of where we are and where we are going, fortunately as a collective they have proven to be made of sterner stuff and they held their nerve. We must now complete the collective that makes up Norwich City Football Club, the fans have to realise that in our current set up we have the right people in the right places. We will go from strength to strength under the current heroic board which had shown extreme courage balanced with the wisdom that can only be achieved by being at the ''coal face'' of running a Premier League football club, it would have been so easy to buckle at the first sign of a supposed problem but these people are made of sterner stuff and they should be applauded for keeping their heads and being resolute.

 

There are so many examples of poor stewardship of football clubs, we are not one of those.

 

   

[Gingerpele 0]

We haven''t actually solved anything...

We were pretty poor until we took the lead. And ok between the equaliser and second goal. And we''re one point of the relegation zone with an away trip to a side who have beaten Chelsea and Spurs in their last two. (which could work in our favour to be honest)

While i''ve never been a Hughton outer, and still don''t know what i''d do. Until we back Saturday up with a draw away to Newcastle and convincing victory against Palace I don''t think we can start celebrating too much. It was a fantastic result, but unlike Chelsea and Arsenal games it wasn''t a great performance. But to be fair it doesn''t matter how you get the points, it just matters you get them. I''d rather we played poorly and won games than played well and lost them. Because stepping up against the teams around us has regularly been a problem for us. And since we''ve lost five from five against big boys (including the LC game) which i''m fairly sure we didn''t do in the last two seasons, the results against Hull and Villa (& Cardiff too) look pretty poor.

I''m looking at the table and even ignoring Southampton, we see Newcastle who i''m pretty sure were supposed to be under pressure two weeks ago, with Pardew one of the favourites to lose his job, on 17 points in 9th. Hull on 14, Cardiff 12. And Sunderland are now picking up, West Ham have Andy Carroll to come back.

I''m not trying to be all doom and gloom, but I don''t think we should start applauding the board for sticking with Hughton until we get a few more points. Which i''m confidant we will, but then I was also confidant we''d beat Cardiff after the two preceding performances, confidant we''d put Lambert in his place, and at the start of the season pretty confidant we''d have taken at least one point from Spurs/Arsenal/Chelsea/Man.C.

[YellowNets1901 0]

I felt the board would act after the Man City defeat. However, it was clear to see on the Match of the Day shots of the board (McNally especially) how pleased they looked for Hughton and the team. In the ground it just seemed like utter relief from everyone, certainly those who sit near me. The manner of the victory wasn''t important, the 3 points were all that mattered and if we didn''t get them, I think the players'' confidence would''ve taken a major hit, perhaps (under Hughton) an un-repairable hit.

 

It''s certainly better for the club if we don''t make a change and now the awful run of fixtures is behind us, we need to pick up vital points. The last 4/5 games of the season frighten me a bit. We need 38/40 points before we hit those games. We are capable of getting them on the board, but whether we will or not is down to our approach from here on in.

 

Two up top is the way forward and the fact that Hughton played that way in a game that (arguably) saved his job proves he thinks so too.

[Bill 1,788]

drive the bu ggers outBowkett lying to the fans about the transfer budget, Delia making off with funds, Fry a convicted class A drug dealerand McNally losing the club millions paying Lambert compensation

we were only saved Saturday by enforced changes caused by injuries

what have to board ever done for us, .................or even for City supporters come to that ?

[Jim Smith 2,610]

This OP is precisely the reason why allowing the West Ham game to become "do or die" for Hughton was dangerous. There now seem to be several fans who take a half decent 45 minutes against a side who will be in the relegation mix (all precipitated by a fortuitous penalty at a time when we were hardly battering them) as proof that Hughton is an amazing manager and that the Hughton "inners" we right all along.

The fact is we all knew we had a good enough side to beat West Ham at home if they played to their potential because we all know we have some good players in this squad. Beating West ham in the way we did just proves that but it certainly does not prove Hughton is the man to take us forward. Only a prolonged spell of decent form and decision making will demonstrate that.

[......and Smith must score. 1,596]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]

Now that we''ve deservedly steered our way to be comfortably out of the relegation places........

   [/quote]On the back of a good 40-odd minutes after a truly atrocious first 50 and the fact that we have mustered an average of a point a game for the season I doubt many see it like that.Post smells of a wind-up to be honest.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]This OP is precisely the reason why allowing the West Ham game to become "do or die" for Hughton was dangerous. There now seem to be several fans who take a half decent 45 minutes against a side who will be in the relegation mix (all precipitated by a fortuitous penalty at a time when we were hardly battering them) as proof that Hughton is an amazing manager and that the Hughton "inners" we right all along. The fact is we all knew we had a good enough side to beat West Ham at home if they played to their potential because we all know we have some good players in this squad. Beating West ham in the way we did just proves that but it certainly does not prove Hughton is the man to take us forward. Only a prolonged spell of decent form and decision making will demonstrate that.[/quote]

 

Yep - West Ham are so rubbish they have only conceded one goal away from home all season (and that was another penalty).

 

Whilst the result of one game should never determine a manager''s fate, either a sacking or a reprive, coming from 1 goal down against a team who don''t generally concede away from home should not be overlooked.

 

It''s clear from player comments that Hughton''s words, as well as the tweaks to the formation, at half-time lead to Norwich getting back into the game. There are still question marks over Hughton''s future, but nothing is determined yet. Things will be much clearer after the next two games where more good performances and points are needed.

[Bill 1,788]

or maybe that the players felt the need (or were required) to make those commentseither way little has changed bar a few places in the leaguethe tactics still look inept and one dimesional and results seem to be coming as a consequence of players ignoring those tactics rather than sticking to themhoping to merely stay up bu grinding out low scoring draws is not the way forward, nor is it what the board will be expectingsomething has to change ..... and I suggest there will be a fair bit of evaluation and taking stock over the next 10 days or so

 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

[quote user="City1st"]or maybe that the players felt the need (or were required) to make those comments

either way little has changed bar a few places in the league

the tactics still look inept and one dimesional and results seem to be coming as a consequence of players ignoring those tactics rather than sticking to them

hoping to merely stay up bu grinding out low scoring draws is not the way forward, nor is it what the board will be expecting

something has to change ..... and I suggest there will be a fair bit of evaluation and taking stock over the next 10 days or so
 
[/quote]

 

In my opinion, those weren''t staged managed comments - they came too soon after the game for that.

 

There is no evidence of players ''ignoring tactics'' that is such a lazy way of trying to have a dig at a manager after a good result - you are better than that City 1st.

 

Progress is slow, but there have been signs there through-out the season of a team who could do well, mid-table was always going to be the target this season as the club spent enough to keep the status-quo on the opposition. Southampton, Stoke, Chelsea, Arsenal, Cardiff and 45 mins against West Ham have been encouraging performances (although not results) - keep that level of performance over the next 27 games and relegation won''t be a concern for long. 4 points over the next two games and Norwich won''t be that far from pre-season expectations (of the sane) and hopefully by the end of December, the half way point of the season, Norwich will have about 23 points. With easier games agaisnt Palace, Swansea, Sunderland and Fulham coming up, points should start flowing soon.

[BigFish 2,282]

[quote user="City1st"] either way little has changed bar a few places in the league[/quote]

Isn''t this what we want?

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]

Now that we''ve deservedly steered our way to be comfortably out of the relegation places

[/quote]

Yeah indeed comfortably by just the one point.

[Warren Hill 0]

When we were IN the bottom three by one point it was like the world had ended.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="City1st"]or maybe that the players felt the need (or were required) to make those commentseither way little has changed bar a few places in the leaguethe tactics still look inept and one dimesional and results seem to be coming as a consequence of players ignoring those tactics rather than sticking to themhoping to merely stay up bu grinding out low scoring draws is not the way forward, nor is it what the board will be expectingsomething has to change ..... and I suggest there will be a fair bit of evaluation and taking stock over the next 10 days or so [/quote]

 

In my opinion, those weren''t staged managed comments - they came too soon after the game for that.

 

There is no evidence of players ''ignoring tactics'' that is such a lazy way of trying to have a dig at a manager after a good result - you are better than that City 1st.

 

Progress is slow, but there have been signs there through-out the season of a team who could do well, mid-table was always going to be the target this season as the club spent enough to keep the status-quo on the opposition. Southampton, Stoke, Chelsea, Arsenal, Cardiff and 45 mins against West Ham have been encouraging performances (although not results) - keep that level of performance over the next 27 games and relegation won''t be a concern for long. 4 points over the next two games and Norwich won''t be that far from pre-season expectations (of the sane) and hopefully by the end of December, the half way point of the season, Norwich will have about 23 points. With easier games agaisnt Palace, Swansea, Sunderland and Fulham coming up, points should start flowing soon.

[/quote]I am better than that ?really ?As to the players ignoring the tactics there is every evidence of that. The simplistic tactic of knock the ball ober or through the defenders continued into the early part of the second half, yet was slowly stopped as the players began to run with the ball at the defenders and tried to get past them with the ball, witness Howson''s strike.That the players were playing against Hughton''s tactics was obvious to see and has been before (City v Everton) ... likewise when Hughton brought on Johnson to try and defend the lead and the players continued to attack (Fer''s goal). I would therefore suggest that if you cannot read a game nor see what is going on don''t try and excuse that ''ignorance'' by trying to patronise others.I have made my position on Hughton clear. He is not up to the job - there is no need for me to have a dig at him, lazy dig or not.Two of the goals came from well taken dead ball situations- either of which could have been not given. That the players were playing with a greater degree of freedom in the last 30 mins or so begs the question of if Hughton was responsible for that freedom why did he not set out the game plan that way before the game and was it actually his choice or the players choice. And perhaps is the frustration talked of due to the players feeling that they are being held back by what I see as unsuitable tactics and playing style.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

[quote user="City1st"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="City1st"]or maybe that the players felt the need (or were required) to make those comments

either way little has changed bar a few places in the league

the tactics still look inept and one dimesional and results seem to be coming as a consequence of players ignoring those tactics rather than sticking to them

hoping to merely stay up bu grinding out low scoring draws is not the way forward, nor is it what the board will be expecting

something has to change ..... and I suggest there will be a fair bit of evaluation and taking stock over the next 10 days or so
 
[/quote]

 

In my opinion, those weren''t staged managed comments - they came too soon after the game for that.

 

There is no evidence of players ''ignoring tactics'' that is such a lazy way of trying to have a dig at a manager after a good result - you are better than that City 1st.

 

Progress is slow, but there have been signs there through-out the season of a team who could do well, mid-table was always going to be the target this season as the club spent enough to keep the status-quo on the opposition. Southampton, Stoke, Chelsea, Arsenal, Cardiff and 45 mins against West Ham have been encouraging performances (although not results) - keep that level of performance over the next 27 games and relegation won''t be a concern for long. 4 points over the next two games and Norwich won''t be that far from pre-season expectations (of the sane) and hopefully by the end of December, the half way point of the season, Norwich will have about 23 points. With easier games agaisnt Palace, Swansea, Sunderland and Fulham coming up, points should start flowing soon.

[/quote]

I am better than that ?

really ?

As to the players ignoring the tactics there is every evidence of that. The simplistic tactic of knock the ball ober or through the defenders continued into the early part of the second half, yet was slowly stopped as the players began to run with the ball at the defenders and tried to get past them with the ball, witness Howson''s strike.

That the players were playing against Hughton''s tactics was obvious to see and has been before (City v Everton) ... likewise when Hughton brought on Johnson to try and defend the lead and the players continued to attack (Fer''s goal). I would therefore suggest that if you cannot read a game nor see what is going on don''t try and excuse that ''ignorance'' by trying to patronise others.

I have made my position on Hughton clear. He is not up to the job - there is no need for me to have a dig at him, lazy dig or not.

Two of the goals came from well taken dead ball situations- either of which could have been not given. That the players were playing with a greater degree of freedom in the last 30 mins or so begs the question of if Hughton was responsible for that freedom why did he not set out the game plan that way before the game and was it actually his choice or the players choice. And perhaps is the frustration talked of due to the players feeling that they are being held back by what I see as unsuitable tactics and playing style.


[/quote]

 

Could it be that players weren''t playing to Hughton''s tactics at the beginning of the game, with aimless long balls to nobody? And at half-time, he told them to stop all that and to put their foot on the ball and start passing to each other - which would match exactly what Snodgrass and Hughton said was the halftime team talk - but that must be all fantasy as the much more logical excuse is the players went rouge.

 

After half time there were also small tweaks to the formation, the defenders pushed up higher and the forwards dropped back a little deeper, squeezing the West Ham midfield - I suppose they worked that out between themselves when walking out onto the pitch though.

 

Also the Johnson move would mean the team matched the formation they played in other games, allowing both Fer and Howson to move further forward. Didn''t Hughton also say part of his plan was to allow Howson to move out of the midfield line and press deeper, bringing on Johnson would also allow Fer to do that.

 

What I am basically saying is it is easy to look at one situation and read it either way, depending on a preconcived opinion. You are anti-Hughton so naturally look for a negative slant i.e. He set-up bad tactics and players righted it themselves. I''m not particulary anti or pro Hughton but would see that a collection of players low on confidence after some bad results started a game poorly with sloppy passing - their manager calmed them down at half time, gave them a bit of belief and they gave him a better performance. Not everything will have been part of Hughton''s master plan, but I also think those who consider him to just standing on the side hands in pockets whistling a merry tune to be naive.

 

Where I think Hughton was clever was not to give players low on confidence a shouting at, which would only have destroyed them more - he calmed them down. I give him a huge amount of credit for that, especially as he knew if those 11 players didn''t improve he''d be out of a job. Put yourself in that position, do you think you''d be able to keep as clear a head?

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="City1st"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="City1st"]or maybe that the players felt the need (or were required) to make those commentseither way little has changed bar a few places in the leaguethe tactics still look inept and one dimesional and results seem to be coming as a consequence of players ignoring those tactics rather than sticking to themhoping to merely stay up bu grinding out low scoring draws is not the way forward, nor is it what the board will be expectingsomething has to change ..... and I suggest there will be a fair bit of evaluation and taking stock over the next 10 days or so [/quote]

 

In my opinion, those weren''t staged managed comments - they came too soon after the game for that.

 

There is no evidence of players ''ignoring tactics'' that is such a lazy way of trying to have a dig at a manager after a good result - you are better than that City 1st.

 

Progress is slow, but there have been signs there through-out the season of a team who could do well, mid-table was always going to be the target this season as the club spent enough to keep the status-quo on the opposition. Southampton, Stoke, Chelsea, Arsenal, Cardiff and 45 mins against West Ham have been encouraging performances (although not results) - keep that level of performance over the next 27 games and relegation won''t be a concern for long. 4 points over the next two games and Norwich won''t be that far from pre-season expectations (of the sane) and hopefully by the end of December, the half way point of the season, Norwich will have about 23 points. With easier games agaisnt Palace, Swansea, Sunderland and Fulham coming up, points should start flowing soon.

[/quote]I am better than that ?really ?As to the players ignoring the tactics there is every evidence of that. The simplistic tactic of knock the ball ober or through the defenders continued into the early part of the second half, yet was slowly stopped as the players began to run with the ball at the defenders and tried to get past them with the ball, witness Howson''s strike.That the players were playing against Hughton''s tactics was obvious to see and has been before (City v Everton) ... likewise when Hughton brought on Johnson to try and defend the lead and the players continued to attack (Fer''s goal). I would therefore suggest that if you cannot read a game nor see what is going on don''t try and excuse that ''ignorance'' by trying to patronise others.I have made my position on Hughton clear. He is not up to the job - there is no need for me to have a dig at him, lazy dig or not.Two of the goals came from well taken dead ball situations- either of which could have been not given. That the players were playing with a greater degree of freedom in the last 30 mins or so begs the question of if Hughton was responsible for that freedom why did he not set out the game plan that way before the game and was it actually his choice or the players choice. And perhaps is the frustration talked of due to the players feeling that they are being held back by what I see as unsuitable tactics and playing style.

[/quote]

Taking a striker off and bringing on Johnson was a perfect example of the managers tactics creating an opportunity, the space vacated by Hooper was the space that Fer ran into to score.

 

 

[PurpleCanary 6,381]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="City1st"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="City1st"]or maybe that the players felt the need (or were required) to make those commentseither way little has changed bar a few places in the leaguethe tactics still look inept and one dimesional and results seem to be coming as a consequence of players ignoring those tactics rather than sticking to themhoping to merely stay up bu grinding out low scoring draws is not the way forward, nor is it what the board will be expectingsomething has to change ..... and I suggest there will be a fair bit of evaluation and taking stock over the next 10 days or so [/quote]

 

In my opinion, those weren''t staged managed comments - they came too soon after the game for that.

 

There is no evidence of players ''ignoring tactics'' that is such a lazy way of trying to have a dig at a manager after a good result - you are better than that City 1st.

 

Progress is slow, but there have been signs there through-out the season of a team who could do well, mid-table was always going to be the target this season as the club spent enough to keep the status-quo on the opposition. Southampton, Stoke, Chelsea, Arsenal, Cardiff and 45 mins against West Ham have been encouraging performances (although not results) - keep that level of performance over the next 27 games and relegation won''t be a concern for long. 4 points over the next two games and Norwich won''t be that far from pre-season expectations (of the sane) and hopefully by the end of December, the half way point of the season, Norwich will have about 23 points. With easier games agaisnt Palace, Swansea, Sunderland and Fulham coming up, points should start flowing soon.

[/quote]I am better than that ?really ?As to the players ignoring the tactics there is every evidence of that. The simplistic tactic of knock the ball ober or through the defenders continued into the early part of the second half, yet was slowly stopped as the players began to run with the ball at the defenders and tried to get past them with the ball, witness Howson''s strike.That the players were playing against Hughton''s tactics was obvious to see and has been before (City v Everton) ... likewise when Hughton brought on Johnson to try and defend the lead and the players continued to attack (Fer''s goal). I would therefore suggest that if you cannot read a game nor see what is going on don''t try and excuse that ''ignorance'' by trying to patronise others.I have made my position on Hughton clear. He is not up to the job - there is no need for me to have a dig at him, lazy dig or not.Two of the goals came from well taken dead ball situations- either of which could have been not given. That the players were playing with a greater degree of freedom in the last 30 mins or so begs the question of if Hughton was responsible for that freedom why did he not set out the game plan that way before the game and was it actually his choice or the players choice. And perhaps is the frustration talked of due to the players feeling that they are being held back by what I see as unsuitable tactics and playing style.

[/quote]

 

Could it be that players weren''t playing to Hughton''s tactics at the beginning of the game, with aimless long balls to nobody? And at half-time, he told them to stop all that and to put their foot on the ball and start passing to each other - which would match exactly what Snodgrass and Hughton said was the halftime team talk - but that must be all fantasy as the much more logical excuse is the players went rouge.

 

After half time there were also small tweaks to the formation, the defenders pushed up higher and the forwards dropped back a little deeper, squeezing the West Ham midfield - I suppose they worked that out between themselves when walking out onto the pitch though.

 

Also the Johnson move would mean the team matched the formation they played in other games, allowing both Fer and Howson to move further forward. Didn''t Hughton also say part of his plan was to allow Howson to move out of the midfield line and press deeper, bringing on Johnson would also allow Fer to do that.

 

What I am basically saying is it is easy to look at one situation and read it either way, depending on a preconcived opinion. You are anti-Hughton so naturally look for a negative slant i.e. He set-up bad tactics and players righted it themselves. I''m not particulary anti or pro Hughton but would see that a collection of players low on confidence after some bad results started a game poorly with sloppy passing - their manager calmed them down at half time, gave them a bit of belief and they gave him a better performance. Not everything will have been part of Hughton''s master plan, but I also think those who consider him to just standing on the side hands in pockets whistling a merry tune to be naive.

 

Where I think Hughton was clever was not to give players low on confidence a shouting at, which would only have destroyed them more - he calmed them down. I give him a huge amount of credit for that, especially as he knew if those 11 players didn''t improve he''d be out of a job. Put yourself in that position, do you think you''d be able to keep as clear a head?

[/quote]

 

Bethnal, I didn''t see the game, but two things seem clear from all I have read and heard. Firstly, that Hughton sent out a team that was pretty much guaranteed to lose control of midfield, and so of the game as a whole. And that as a consequence we were lucky to be only one down at half-time. That has to be marked aginst Hughton. The players didn''t pick the team and the formation.Secondly, that if Hughton did make some kind of sensible adjustment it was only at half-time. Why wait until then when it was apparently obvious after only a few minutes that the game plan, whatever it was, wasn''t working? That again has to be a mark against Hughton.

[Bill 1,788]

"Taking

a striker off and bringing on Johnson was a perfect example of the

managers tactics creating an opportunity, the space vacated by Hooper

was the space that Fer ran into to score"

given Hughton''s somewhat bizarre netball tactics that is not as absurd as it would seemhowever the idea that each player has a defined space maybe the reason behind much of our failings

''hold that space, do not move towards the opposing player if he has the ball, likewise if you player has the ball do not move out of your space to offer an option stick to your space and rely upon the opposition to not challenge you when you have the ball''

[BOO 0]

Why wait until half-time indeed!