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Fleck@Millwall

Hoots down to 3/1 this morning

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Whatever we may say, McNally has been a godsend for our club after Doomcaster and I think he will act decisively, he''s not a mug. They backed Hoots substantially for a club of our financial size and unlike some prem clubs, The Mac delivered on landing some quality players, we look like relegation candidates not mid-table......Lets pray McLeish lands the Sunderland job and leaves the field clear for us to land a decent replacement.

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The only reason that the bookies will have of reducing the odds that far is the high number of bets that they would be receiving, mainly from Norwich fans on twitter and the pink''un.
I wouldn''t bother with odds like that, as I think there are 3 or 4 contenders for next departure. 
Fulham won''t be happy to sit in that relegation zone for too long, so Jol will be under pressure. 
West Brom had an awful second half of the season last year and a poor start to this, and Steve Clarke is West Brom''s Hughton (not universally liked amongst West Brom fans, and carrying last seasons problems into this season).
And then you have Newcastle and the Pardew/Kinnear.... Pardew could decide that he has had enough and walk, and Newcastle have a lot of form for sacking managers for personality clashes rather than form/ability. 
Another one which is a bit outside of the box is Rodgers. Their results have been very up and down but a few defeats and they fall down to 7th or 8th then he would be tredding on thin ice too, because although Liverpool claim patience and progress can be seen, their board are going to be much more concerned with a top 6 finish than fancy passing football and if they don''t get one this year then that''s three years in a row.
Out of all those though, it is Martin Jol who is in just as bad a position as Hughton. Very similar thing - is his second season and yet to show any real improvement.

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I hardly think 1 defeat is ''up and down'' TNB!

 Agree about Jol though.

Also spoke to a WBA season ticket holder, who can''t stand Clarke and his tactics, so, yes, he looks iffy also .

Pardew is Pardew!

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Agreed but I think Hoots was quite long before the weekend and has shortened somewhat . The Mac has been ruthless thus far and they''ll be very uneasy in the boardroom, the whole backing of Worthy torn the club apart to that nonsense of fans cheering Burnley goals at home at the end, there were major signs both at the ground and on Canary Call and on the forums that this is only going one way. Pardew is interesting but I think he''s on a huge long-term contract, we don;t know how the new Fulham ownership is and West Brom will give Clarke longer because they won 3-0 at home, if we had Sunderland next week fair enough but I seriously cannot see us getting another point out of the next thee with Hoots at the helm and McNally will also be monitoring the fans as well and the fixture list, we don;t want the Chelsea game turning into outright revolt.

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[quote user="FleckMillwall"]Agreed but I think Hoots was quite long before the weekend and has shortened somewhat . The Mac has been ruthless thus far and they''ll be very uneasy in the boardroom, the whole backing of Worthy torn the club apart to that nonsense of fans cheering Burnley goals at home at the end, there were major signs both at the ground and on Canary Call and on the forums that this is only going one way. Pardew is interesting but I think he''s on a huge long-term contract, we don;t know how the new Fulham ownership is and West Brom will give Clarke longer because they won 3-0 at home, if we had Sunderland next week fair enough but I seriously cannot see us getting another point out of the next thee with Hoots at the helm and McNally will also be monitoring the fans as well and the fixture list, we don;t want the Chelsea game turning into outright revolt.[/quote]
Hughton was very long 20/1 because everybody could see that Di Canio was close to the sack.
Now that Di Canio has been sacked it is natural for everybody elses odds to be shortened. 
3/1 are not attractive odds though, I''d back at 5/1. 
Because Jol and Clarke are just as likely as Hughton at this stage. 

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[quote user="crabbycanary"]

I hardly think 1 defeat is ''up and down'' TNB!

 Agree about Jol though.

Also spoke to a WBA season ticket holder, who can''t stand Clarke and his tactics, so, yes, he looks iffy also .

Pardew is Pardew!

[/quote]
They have yet to beat anybody comprehensively though, winning 1-0 - The Kop likes to see goals.
Rodgers divides Liverpool fans in the same way that Hughton was dividing Norwich fans. A couple of poor results and you can see on this board alone how a huge swing can emerge in just a couple of weeks. 
Most sackings are helped along by fan pressure and with Hughton I think we''ve seen it progressively deteriorate from 80/20, to 60/40, to 50/50, to 40/60, and if we hit 20/80 then he is gone.
Rodgers is probably 60/40 at Liverpool. 

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Fair enough on the odds front and I totally agree regarding the fans. Hoots was always on a slight hiding to nothing after the Holt-Lambert Axis and those thrilling times and whatever is said he kept us up. Additionally, I so wanted him to succeed and thought the appointment shrewd but the style of play and the results are nowhere near good enough, the optimise of the summer has quickly given way to foreboding and he''s losing the fans rapidly. A new man needs a bit of time to sort things and we need some bounce effect because, given the run in, if we don''t have at least 20 points at Xmas we will be in for a real struggle. The players don''t buy into it, you can tell and The Mac will know much more than we do about the dressing room and if it is 100% behind him then they have a very funny way of showing it.

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On field arguments won''t help CH''s cause, Pilks in particular was Mr Angry when he came on and very frustrated. The Snod penalty thing was an outrageous show of dissent against CH as well, if true that RvW is nominated taker. Adds fuel to the speculation last year that the players took control for the last few games.

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One rumour I like and think worth noting is that Ruddy made those comments post-Spurs as a nominated dressing room representative whose position within the first team is totally solid but he spoke out of frustration at tactics. In addition, the targets for Hoots would have been survival (looks doubtful), better away day performance (worse than ever) and more goals (1 in 4 games and didn''t score against the leakiest defence in the prem - 26 without a clean sheet) and to build on the summer optimism with some tasty looking opening fixtures. He''s failed to deliver I''m afraid. It''s not 5 games either so any fan calling for more time to get it right needs to look at the trends both on and off the pitch with fans, players the whole kit kaboodle.

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[quote user="FleckMillwall"]One rumour I like and think worth noting is that Ruddy made those comments post-Spurs as a nominated dressing room representative whose position within the first team is totally solid but he spoke out of frustration at tactics. In addition, the targets for Hoots would have been survival (looks doubtful), better away day performance (worse than ever) and more goals (1 in 4 games and didn''t score against the leakiest defence in the prem - 26 without a clean sheet) and to build on the summer optimism with some tasty looking opening fixtures. He''s failed to deliver I''m afraid. It''s not 5 games either so any fan calling for more time to get it right needs to look at the trends both on and off the pitch with fans, players the whole kit kaboodle.[/quote]
The unhappy players seem to be the "old guard", the ones who have all been good friends - Ruddy, Snodgrass, Pilkington, Hoolahan - "The Holt Crew" if you like.
Holt may well have been the glue that held them together. 
In fact he was into greyhound racing, and into darts, so maybe he really was a fantastic leader and the talisman off the pitch, and perhaps his view on the tactics was a shared view. 
If there is a split in the dressing room (new players who are still bought into the tactics and manager Vs old players who are not), then sacking Hughton could even make it worse. 
If there are anti-Hughton players, and pro-Hughton players, then how do you fix that? We will be left with unhappy players if he stays, and unhappy players if he leaves.
It would have to be an amazing managerial appointment, a man of real charisma and status, to unite them all in agreeing that a change was a good decision. Now, where do we find a Michael Laudrup or an Andre Villa Boas? We need somebody with a wow-factor, our own "special one". 

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Ole Gunnar Solskjær?
Is he the type of winner that could unite the dressing room?
Six times Premier League winner, Champions League winner, FA Cup winner, and in two seasons as a manager has won two league titles?
We lose a Champions League winner, a man who is born to lead on the pitch and off the pitch (That''s Lambert), and we get another?
It would be nice to have a striker as a manager wouldn''t it? He''d know how to get Van Wolfswinkel scoring? 

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[quote user="FleckMillwall"]Fair enough on the odds front and I totally agree regarding the fans. Hoots was always on a slight hiding to nothing after the Holt-Lambert Axis and those thrilling times and whatever is said he kept us up. Additionally, I so wanted him to succeed and thought the appointment shrewd but the style of play and the results are nowhere near good enough, the optimise of the summer has quickly given way to foreboding and he''s losing the fans rapidly. A new man needs a bit of time to sort things and we need some bounce effect because, given the run in, if we don''t have at least 20 points at Xmas we will be in for a real struggle. The players don''t buy into it, you can tell and The Mac will know much more than we do about the dressing room and if it is 100% behind him then they have a very funny way of showing it.[/quote]Get out of my head!

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Agreed but do you think that The Wolf and Ollson are having a ball and I strongly suspect if Hoot''s tactics were delivering then players would get on with it. A number of our players are showing a worrying sign of lost form which is down to the manager to either rest them or promote confidence. I wonder whether they really enjoy being told to rigidly soak up pressure knowing they are up against world-class players and that is extremely difficult. I think Spurs away is a toughy we write off pre-season as anything is a bonus but at Hull was the real concern, the players didn;t really now what to do to get back into the game. I recall a similar situation at QPR under Lambert when they went down to 10 men and he completely changed it and we won 3-1 - Hoots does not react quickly enough and the subs are either brought on way to late or are baffling.

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[quote user="The New Boy"]Ole Gunnar Solskjær?
Is he the type of winner that could unite the dressing room?
Six times Premier League winner, Champions League winner, FA Cup winner, and in two seasons as a manager has won two league titles?
We lose a Champions League winner, a man who is born to lead on the pitch and off the pitch (That''s Lambert), and we get another?
It would be nice to have a striker as a manager wouldn''t it? He''d know how to get Van Wolfswinkel scoring? 
[/quote]I have to agree with the sentiment here. From the outside looking in it appears that we desperately need a manager who can instill some respect and discipline into the team. The rumours of dressing room revolt at the end of last season, players arguing with each other, the appearance of a general lack of motivation and a sense of frustration coming from the players on the pitch are all symptoms of a team that does not have a healthy fear and respect for their manager. These are character traits of most successful managers, especially in English football. We can go back to the 1960''s with Ramsey (sorry for mentioning a binner) and Revie, 70''s with Shankley and Clough, 80''s with Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish and then in the 1990''s came Alex Ferguson who''s reign of fear, intimidation and tea cup throwing ([;)]) at Old Trafford coincided with the club''s most successful ever period. Then of course we have our own meteoric rise from League One under a man who demanded both discipline and respect from the players by his very presence at the club.However, do you think that Solskjær is the man to do that? Will he come in and unite the dressing room? Does he have the same air about him as the aforementioned managers? Is he tactically sound and adaptable enough for the Premier League? I think that all of these are the questions that have to be answered with a yes when they appoint the next Norwich City manager as I think a lot of the problem has been we had one of those characters in the ''hot-seat'' and replaced him with a really nice guy who is a very decent coach, but he doesn''t command the respect from players earning £30-40k a week.After doing a little research when his name was mentioned in a previous post, Thomas Tuchel of 1. FSV Mainz 05, looks like he would fit the bill. Would he see Norwich as a sideways step though, because German football is becoming stronger?Questions, questions, questions.Oh and the other small fact I have overlooked when discussing a new manager is we currently have one employed.

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Touching on what the OP said, surely McNally is at fault for appointing chris Hughton so deserves to go as well?

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I really really wanted Hoots to succeed and last season we had some great results and he was the right man to stabilise following Lamberts departure and he kept us up which was a very good effort. Giving more time seems reasonable but I don''t see any signs anywhere of improvement, something to hang on to say this will get better. He frustrates the life out of me with his tactics away from home and on saturday just take Snoddy off for christ sake for everyone, including him and the managers sake. His post-match comments about our danger down Snoddy side when every cross was dreadful smacked of someone with a credibility gap to me. McNally made the right appointment given our circumstances and maybe should have some stern words - why oh why won''t Hoots just change?? We wouldnt even need this conversation.

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[quote user="refjezdavies"]Touching on what the OP said, surely McNally is at fault for appointing chris Hughton so deserves to go as well?[/quote]
Are you suggesting that McNally alone appointed Hughton, it would surely have been subject to a vote amongst all board members? 
His dismissal too would be decision subject to a vote from the board?  
Besides, the decision to appoint Hughton kept us in this league and enabled us to become free of external debt. The appointment itself worked out rather well. 
Last season was a success. The CEO & board now need to steer us towards another successful season as a club, and that will require a decision as to whether or not to stick with Hughton.
McNally and the rest of the board of directors will be judged on what happens over the course of this season, which could well end up another successful one, with or without Hughton in charge. 

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Whilst like many I am concerned at the season so far it is far too premature to seriously think of expensive and disruptive sackings. The Board will be disappointed but they have just back to manager to the tune of £26m and for the most part most on here think the signings are good albeit the team have not gelled yet. We were poor against a very poor villa side in a game no one deserved to win. We need to start playing with more intent and the quality of the ball to the strikers have to improve. Nothing will happen until early December imo, at that point things will have either improved or not. If the not is the answer then yes a new face may be given a go provided there is a competent credible person out there at the time. A new face would need a month to assess the squad prior to the transfer window

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McNally has been great for our club, remember the hapless Doomcaster and some of those appointments. We are in a very strong pair of hands with him at the club. Our transfer activity has been revolutionised, our appointments are much better, the club is debt-free and eating at the top-table. His record is wonderful. He has also backed Hoots massively so it''s down to the manager to step-up to the plate.

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