Dead Men Walking

[unique 466]

Today was never going to be about performance...today was entirely about the result.

A home match that offered something before the hardship of playing Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City in the next five games.

A Norwich team that showed little meaningful change from the abject performance at White Hart Lane. Poor performances rewarded with another ninety minutes, despite a much strengthened squad compared to last year.

A Villa team that had lost three games on the trot, had failed to keep a clean sheet for twenty-six games. A team which conceded a penalty in the first five minutes, who lost their talismanic striker before half an hour was up.

With the upcoming games, if this was not a ''must win'' game, then it was certainly a ''must not lose''.

Let''s dispense with the nonsense that if a new manager was to come in, he would want his own players. Right now it would seem that Hughton and his two sidekicks can''t organise or motivate these players to play anywhere near their full potential.

2013 has offered little hope that Norwich can progress. An undercurrent of player unrest cannot be ignored.

Replacing the coaching team cannot possibly make things any worse than they currently are. We need a team to come in and install belief into a squad that should be good enough not to spend the whole season in a relegation battle.

[Herman 11,136]

...on the green and yellow mile.

It''s increasingly impossible to support them. So frustrating and I can''t see it improving for the next handful of games.

[unique 466]

Yesterday was never going to be about the result.......it was more about the performance - and that was about as bad as it can get.

Five weeks on and what exactly has changed?

The league position has worsened. The performances over the last two games have eradicated any glimmer of hope gained from the improved play, yet heavy defeats against Chelsea and Arsenal.

With Hughton''s stamp firmly embedded on the impotent Norwich City strike force, with a paltry return of one goal from the £13 million or so splashed pre-season, Norwich''s appalling goal-difference will be a curse round their neck for the rest of the season.

The looming international break would give the Board more time to find replacements, giving Hughton and his sidekicks more time would appear superfluous.

West Ham will arrive next week and park the bus with their six-man midfield. Allardyce may even fancy the opportunity to gain three points and provide Norwich the ultimate insult by starting with a forward or two. Either way, the likelihood of gaining more than a point, especially with the injury list starting to lengthen, is slim.

The style of play has become non-existent, the demeanour of the players is a concern. Is there any point in continuing with a pre-match huddle? It''s a complete sham judged by the two Manchester debacles.

Expensive strikers not-scoring, defence leaking goals for fun, all players under-performing without exception, nothing looks right about the team after this week''s games.

The club is in need of a massive lift and it is becoming more apparent by the day that our current coaching incumbents are incapable of providing it.

[First Wazzock 1,014]

[quote user="unique"]Yesterday was never going to be about the result.......it was more about the performance - and that was about as bad as it can get. Five weeks on and what exactly has changed? The league position has worsened. The performances over the last two games have eradicated any glimmer of hope gained from the improved play, yet heavy defeats against Chelsea and Arsenal. With Hughton''s stamp firmly embedded on the impotent Norwich City strike force, with a paltry return of one goal from the £13 million or so splashed pre-season, Norwich''s appalling goal-difference will be a curse round their neck for the rest of the season. The looming international break would give the Board more time to find replacements, giving Hughton and his sidekicks more time would appear superfluous. West Ham will arrive next week and park the bus with their six-man midfield. Allardyce may even fancy the opportunity to gain three points and provide Norwich the ultimate insult by starting with a forward or two. Either way, the likelihood of gaining more than a point, especially with the injury list starting to lengthen, is slim. The style of play has become non-existent, the demeanour of the players is a concern. Is there any point in continuing with a pre-match huddle? It''s a complete sham judged by the two Manchester debacles. Expensive strikers not-scoring, defence leaking goals for fun, all players under-performing without exception, nothing looks right about the team after this week''s games. The club is in need of a massive lift and it is becoming more apparent by the day that our current coaching incumbents are incapable of providing it.[/quote]

 

Super post.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

So those are the positives, unique. The opportunities to look on the bright side.

But what about some negatives ? You''ve not really covered those....

[*** 0]

[quote user="unique"]Yesterday was never going to be about the result.......it was more about the performance - and that was about as bad as it can get. Five weeks on and what exactly has changed? The league position has worsened. The performances over the last two games have eradicated any glimmer of hope gained from the improved play, yet heavy defeats against Chelsea and Arsenal. With Hughton''s stamp firmly embedded on the impotent Norwich City strike force, with a paltry return of one goal from the £13 million or so splashed pre-season, Norwich''s appalling goal-difference will be a curse round their neck for the rest of the season. The looming international break would give the Board more time to find replacements, giving Hughton and his sidekicks more time would appear superfluous. West Ham will arrive next week and park the bus with their six-man midfield. Allardyce may even fancy the opportunity to gain three points and provide Norwich the ultimate insult by starting with a forward or two. Either way, the likelihood of gaining more than a point, especially with the injury list starting to lengthen, is slim. The style of play has become non-existent, the demeanour of the players is a concern. Is there any point in continuing with a pre-match huddle? It''s a complete sham judged by the two Manchester debacles. Expensive strikers not-scoring, defence leaking goals for fun, all players under-performing without exception, nothing looks right about the team after this week''s games. The club is in need of a massive lift and it is becoming more apparent by the day that our current coaching incumbents are incapable of providing it.[/quote]

 

Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah!

[a1canary 0]

There''s one thing i disagree with there. Only one. And that is i think we''ll beat West Ham. The one set of people who will be hurting more than us, more than the manager or the boardroom... is the players. They will be desperate to put things straight. We know our players and know them well - we know they''re an honest bunch, we know they have great spirit and we know they are good players in the right circumstances (and with the right mangement!). We don''t have many doubts about whether they are ''good enough'' - certainly to beat West Ham anyway. And they will be desperate to prove that - to themselves, to the fans and to the manager. So their desire and passion, that we know they have in them, amplified by a Carrow Road crowd that will be just as desperate to put things straight, will be very difficult for West Ham to match.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,797]

[quote user="a1canary"]There''s one thing i disagree with there. Only one. And that is i think we''ll beat West Ham. The one set of people who will be hurting more than us, more than the manager or the boardroom... is the players. They will be desperate to put things straight. We know our players and know them well - we know they''re an honest bunch, we know they have great spirit and we know they are good players in the right circumstances (and with the right mangement!). We don''t have many doubts about whether they are ''good enough'' - certainly to beat West Ham anyway. And they will be desperate to prove that - to themselves, to the fans and to the manager. So their desire and passion, that we know they have in them, amplified by a Carrow Road crowd that will be just as desperate to put things straight, will be very difficult for West Ham to match.[/quote]

 

Sadly a1, I think you are wrong. I think West Ham will beat us, and Mr H will be gone. There just seems a growing sense of inevitablity about it, it needs a change. That''s what happens in Football, managers come in, sign a contract  , if it works they sign another one (or get poached). If it doesn''t they get their money and they go.

We would all love stability, but in truth how many teams have this? I''m not advocating change for change sake, and I do have half a mind on the hold your nerve principle, but this has now got to the point where it is almost expected to go wrong. I was absolutely certain we would get thumped yesterday, and we did. Sometimes, an organisation goes on the slide, and you have to make changes. I believe that is where we are now. The argument of "who would you bring in" is not the point.

 

As someone once said, in order to solve a problem, first you have to admit you have one. That is where we are now. An incidentally when we play Fulham, they will have a new manager too....

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

I''d agree GPB that there is a horrible sense of inevitability about all things to do with Norwich City at present.

Some people are actually trying to get a positive feeling out of it. More than once, I''ve heard the argument; what number of points were you expecting to get from a run of fixtures that read Stoke, Chelsea, Arsenal, Cardiff, Man City ? Four( draw at Stoke, beat Cardiff, lose the rest) .Well four is what we''ve got, so where''s the problem ?

But that truly is the reality of what our club have become under Hughton. We''ve been conditioned into accepting second best . Under the Lambert régime we were always aiming high. Didn''t always work out that way, but high nontheless.

So yes, you are spot on . There are too many people in denial. And until they recognise that we have a problem, we cannot solve it.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]

So yes, you are spot on . There are too many people in denial. And until they recognise that we have a problem, we cannot solve it.[/quote]

 

What on earth are you blabbering on about Reggie? Too many people in denial? Until they recognise we have a problem, we cannot solve it??

 

I take it you must be talking about Bowkett and McNally?

 

Or perhaps not because some of you do have inflated opinions of yourselves. I hear about coaching badges. I hear about what you do in your professional lives. I hear about Norwich supporters who are little old Norwich as opposed to the superior ones who have the right answers and now it seems that if these self appointed experts can get everyone on here to come round to their way of thinking we can solve it!

 

How are we going to solve it?

 

 

[a1canary 0]

I''m not really talking about the manager and if he should or should not go. I do think we''re approaching the point where his position becomes untenable. We will reach it if we don''t get 7 or 9 convincing points in the next three games.

But all I''m really saying here is that I think we''ll beat West Ham. If the manager is still here next weekend that is. Sack him now and their heads will be all over the place and they won''t have the focus they will certainly have if they just concentrate with the manager on winning the next game.

[PurpleCanary 6,390]

"If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly."[;)]

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Your response to my (and GPB''s) point, Nige, is as clear an example of "if it fits...etc" as you''re ever likely to find Nige.

Who on earth mentioned"self appointed experts" ? Or Bowkett and Mc Nally?

We will see how things pan out over the next few days/weeks, but there are plenty of us (not, for the record, experts..just people who see what''s in front of''em!) who are surprised at the number of people who , on the surface at the very least, seem to be unable to grasp just what a precarious position the club is in.

The offers of solutions have been mulled over ad infinitum recently, so there''s no point in going over old ground.

Where you are right of course is that, in the end it''ll take the likes of Mc Nally and Bowkett to act before the true solution is found.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Your response to my (and GPB''s) point, Nige, is as clear an example of "if it fits...etc" as you''re ever likely to find Nige.

Who on earth mentioned"self appointed experts" ? Or Bowkett and Mc Nally?

We will see how things pan out over the next few days/weeks, but there are plenty of us (not, for the record, experts..just people who see what''s in front of''em!) who are surprised at the number of people who , on the surface at the very least, seem to be unable to grasp just what a precarious position the club is in.

The offers of solutions have been mulled over ad infinitum recently, so there''s no point in going over old ground.

Where you are right of course is that, in the end it''ll take the likes of Mc Nally and Bowkett to act before the true solution is found.[/quote]

 

Well it seems that poor woman on the train was little ol Norwich and what''s more she didn''t tawk proper! And of course you''ve told me before that your opinion has more weight because of your "professional life". Now you''re telling me that people who don''t agree with you can''t see what''s in front of them. But I think they probably can. I think they can probably see it and understand it just as well as you or GPB. The arrogance of the opinion that Bowkett and McNally will eventually come round to your way of thinking would beggar belief if I hadn''t read enough of your offerings before.

 

But you still didn''t answer my question. Why is it that if people don''t agree with you the problems can''t be solved. And if we do all agree with you how are we going to solve it?

 

[Bury Yellow 2]

Take that massive chip off your shoulder Nutty then try and end one of your mesmerising posts without a question.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

You should know by now that this type of post doesn''t bother me Bury. I see it as weakness to be honest. Rather like retorting with "binner" "sheep" or "pantwetter". But as it''s your only offering I guess it will have to do.

 

 

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Nige, you really are a serial "getter hold of the wrong end of the stick".

Never said anything about my professional life. Doubt if you even know what I do !

YOU were the one who first raised the names of Bowkett and Mc Nally, but in my own way I was agreeing with you that in the end , they are the ones ultimately with the solution to this. Where on earth did I say that they had to come round to my or anyone else''s way of thinking ?

Just get down off your high horse Nigel. There is room for all shades of opinion on here, and you putting words in people''s mouths is not terribly helpful if we are to continue with a sensible debate over this very pressing problem.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Nige, you really are a serial "getter hold of

the wrong end of the stick". Never said anything about my professional life.

Doubt if you even know what I do ! YOU were the one who first raised the names

of Bowkett and Mc Nally, but in my own way I was agreeing with you that in the

end , they are the ones ultimately with the solution to this. Where on earth did

I say that they had to come round to my or anyone else''s way of thinking ? Just

get down off your high horse Nigel. There is room for all shades of opinion on

here, and you putting words in people''s mouths is not terribly helpful if we are

to continue with a sensible debate over this very pressing problem.[/quote]

 

Luckily there''s a quote facility on here.

 

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Now you''re just being silly Nige. Sorry, but

all my professional life, I''ve dealt in hard facts...evidence based. as opposed

to conjecture. You remind me of the ex Radio Norfolk guy who was convicted of

kiddy-fiddling last week. Apparently during his trial, even in the face of

simple , factual, hard evidence, he refused to countenance it. Your loyalty to

the NCFC/ CH cause is touching, and laudable, but clearly we are coming at this

from two different standpoints.[/quote]

 

The kiddy fiddling line was classic too. It''s amazing what folk get away

with if others don''t retort with report.

 

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]I''d agree GPB that there is a horrible sense

of inevitability about all things to do with Norwich City at present. Some

people are actually trying to get a positive feeling out of it. More than once,

I''ve heard the argument; what number of points were you expecting to get from a

run of fixtures that read Stoke, Chelsea, Arsenal, Cardiff, Man City ? Four(

draw at Stoke, beat Cardiff, lose the rest) .Well four is what we''ve got, so

where''s the problem ? But that truly is the reality of what our club have become

under Hughton. We''ve been conditioned into accepting second best . Under the

Lambert régime we were always aiming high. Didn''t always work out that way, but

high nontheless. So yes, you are spot on . There are too many people in

denial. And until they recognise that we have a problem, we cannot solve

it.[/quote]

 

So where have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick?

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Erm, don''t we all have a professional life, Nige ? Yes, in mine I''ve tended to deal with facts. But you have no idea what I do, and, yes, I do stick to my view that you do not respond well to quotes of hard, factual evidence, when it''s offered. And , no I was not suggesting you were a kiddy fiddler ! For heaven''s sake GROW UP.

Don''t really understand your second point. Yes, there are people seemingly in denial that we are having problems currently, but exactly where does your quote prove that I''m suggesting that it should be solved on my terms ?

That''s where you''ve got hold of the wrong end of the stick , Nigel .

[nutty nigel 7,902]

So how are we going to solve the problems if these people seemingly come out of denial?

 

 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,797]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

"If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly."[;)]

[/quote]

 

It''s been a while since English Lit O Level, Purple, but I seem to recall that had something to do with MacBeth doing something very nasty to King Duncan? A simple pat on the back and paying up the contract will do [;)]

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So how are we going to solve the problems if these people seemingly come out of denial?

 

 

[/quote]

Dunno Nigel.

You are the expert.

You tell me.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So how are we going to solve the problems if these people seemingly come out of denial?

 

 

[/quote]

Dunno Nigel.

You are the expert.

You tell me.[/quote]

 

Well obviously we aren''t. So trying to divide the fans is more than pointless. It''s futile.