RvW - Silent but deadly?

[Canary On The Wire 0]

Many people expect Ricky boy to be well into double figures come May next year, and taking the plaudits as the star man of FCR.

I don''t think that will be the case.

Hear me out. I''m no Binner. I fully expect van Wolfswinkel to start the majority of our games next season and to be a key player in many hard earned victories- just not in the way many of us imagine.

People talk about how his movement in behind is his key attribute, but I only half-agree. He can make brilliant runs all match every match, but we''re not particularly adept at passing through a defence (unless we do sign a high standard No 10) so I don''t expect that killer ball, but I do expect a lot of frustration from Ricky as he thinks ''Where''s the pass?''

Instead, his undoubtedly classy movement will (as seen against Portland and in fleeting moments San Jose) give the wide men so much more breathing space as defenders struggle to keep tabs on RvW. Redmond was the star man against the Timbers, but this was certainly due in no small part to the space on the left given to him by Ricky pulling defenders away down the middle, allowing Redmond to come inside and do serious damage (on one occasion striking the bar from range).

So to conclude I feel RvW will be amongst the goals, with 7 or 8 to his name, but equally Snodgrass, Pilks and Redmond heavily featuring due to the unselfish and thankless role Ricky is used to playing as a lone frontman.

[mrs miggins 0]

we''ve spent £9m on someone who''s gonna get us 7 goals...NOOOOOOOOOOO

[Juggy 0]

I''d prefer to wait and see who else we sign, and what system(s) Hughton uses, before speculating on how many goals RVW will score next season.

Van Persie does that drifting out wide and dropping deep thing, very similar player. Hasn''t stopped him from scoring goals. 

I''d expect him to score more this season than Grant Holt did last season, if anything because of his extra yard of pace. 

[mrs miggins 0]

I''ve done the math, it took some time, but with the aid of a calculator and a phone call to my old maths teacher which i''ve spent all night to track after all these years. I can say that it would work out as over £1m per goal.

[pilksfanclub 0]

This isn''t a bad OP. People need to realise though goals is a key part of a striker''s job they can still be effective without scoring many. As the most important thing is how the team is performing and if their movement enables the team to perform better then they are doing well. Some good examples of this are for instance Mario Gomez is a much better goal scorer than Mandzuckic but the latter was picked by Bayern because he enabled the team to play better. In 1998 Guivarc''h enabled the French national team to play better despite his lack of goal threat and was a key part of their triumph in that World Cup.

Having said that I disagree that his movement will help the wingers hugely as generally they are dealt with by the full backs. It could help if they cut inside to occupy the space between the lines or if he drags out a centre half by dropping deep. Anyway we''ll see how he does but I think he''ll get to double figures and in terms of system I would be shocked if we don''t see 4-4-1-1

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]and in terms of system I would be shocked if we don''t see 4-4-1-1[/quote]

I would be shocked if Hughton isn''t going into this season with a second system to be used frequently. Playing the same system all season is ridiculous, and he only did it because the Fulham result scared him off 4-4-2 for life.

If we sign a number 10 and another striker, then I certainly expect to see some sort of variation of 4-4-2 or perhaps even a 4-3-1-2.  Hughton was reluctant to play two strikers last season because he didn''t rate any of the strikers at the club apart from Holt, if he even rated him. 

Rectifying that was surely the primary goal this summer, and if Hooper signs he will be two thirds of the way there. 

[Juggy 0]

Just to clarify, I agree that we will see 4-4-1-1 (or 4-5-1 whatever you want to call it), but I think we will also see some sort of system with two strikers being used as well. 

Having no Plan B was our biggest problem last season. When the opposition neutralized our system we had no ideas whatsoever. I''d like to think that the reason was a lack of quality options, and I''d also like to think that by the time the window closes that won''t be a problem anymore. 

[pilksfanclub 0]

I don''t think playing one system matters at all. So many teams play one system all season it really doesn''t matter.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]I don''t think playing one system matters at all. So many teams play one system all season it really doesn''t matter.[/quote]

Most other teams have a plan B, especially the mid-table teams.

Stoke for example played both 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2.

Even Swansea reverted to two up front at one point, and they would frequently bring Luke Moore on and play with two up front when chasing a game.

Making like-for-like substitutions is not often effective in changing a teams fortunes. 

And if you remember.... Hughton admitted that he wanted to play 4-4-2 in one game and couldn''t because Becchio got injured on the day of the game. So I think there is a fair bit of truth in what I say about him being reluctant to revert to two up front because of a lack of options. He admitted that, and despite this we had Simeon Jackson who could have played there. He simply didn''t rate him. Stoke win a lot of points by sticking more bodies up front, that is basically Kenwyn Jones''s job. 

Sorry just have to disagree. Most managers will change the system if they are being dominated, some even change the formation and make subs at half time. 

Can only think of the top four or five who hardly ever change shape, but then they aren''t often chasing a game are they? 

[pilksfanclub 0]

Swansea don''t change shape. Nor did Fulham particularly. Sticking more bodies up front doesn''t necessarily achieve much it can lead to a more disjointed approach you need players linking play between the strikers and midfielders. The whole notion of a formation is a bit dated as teams become more fluid. It is also worth noting that the difference between a 4-4-1-1 and a 4-4-2 is minimal and this can change into a 4-2-3-1 very easily also.

In terms of changing system if a manager sees they are being dominated they will change approach so could get them pressing more or to mark a specific player etc. Having said that Hughton seemed to fail at that at times.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]Swansea don''t change shape. Nor did Fulham particularly. Sticking more bodies up front doesn''t necessarily achieve much it can lead to a more disjointed approach you need players linking play between the strikers and midfielders. The whole notion of a formation is a bit dated as teams become more fluid. It is also worth noting that the difference between a 4-4-1-1 and a 4-4-2 is minimal and this can change into a 4-2-3-1 very easily also.

In terms of changing system if a manager sees they are being dominated they will change approach so could get them pressing more or to mark a specific player etc. Having said that Hughton seemed to fail at that at times.[/quote]

Keep hearing this same old stuff about formations being irrelevant because football is more fluid, but either you have one striker on the pitch or you have two.

The difference between 4-4-1-1 and 4-4-2 is one striker or two strikers, and that will be the difference until we have an absolute beast of an attacking midfielder who can score 10 goals a season. Neither Hoolahan or Howson are that player.

Hoolahan is not a striker, neither is Howson. There is a huge difference between 4-4-1-1 and 4-4-2 to me. 

[Juggy 0]

Unless we sign Quags or Toivanan I can''t see us being much more of a threat than we were last season. 

[City 2nd 193]

pilksfanclub wrote the following post at 2013-07-26 4:36 AM:

This isn''t a bad OP. People need to realise though goals is a key part of a striker''s job-:

Especially Mr Hughton and his coaching staff! Last season we had strikers who could/and had, scored goals aplenty in previous seasons. A degree of attacking policy and attacking tactics will bring goals regardless of who the striker is/are in any one game..

[Dubai Mark 0]

Squad not complete, pre season not half way through yet, RVW only had limited time in team, CH surely not close to fielding his "first eleven" yet in pe season, fitness levels some way off, etc etc........so, just how do we know how RVW will perform next season yet when we dont even know the full squad, what further players will be arriving, formation and tactics of the team or the team members CH will put out yet? 

[lake district canary 4,830]

[quote user="The New Boy"]Can only think of the top four or five who hardly ever change shape, but then they aren''t often chasing a game are they? [/quote]

I think this is the point.   The way Hughton has set his teams up in the past they have played in a way that meant they weren''t often chasing a game.  Fluid, consistent and confident looking football is what he is known for.   Last season was a difficult one for him on many levels but we saw glimpses of that.   He will not need to change systems/formations that much because we will be playing in a way that will mean we do not need to.

[Google Bot 3,934]

I''ve seen many a time when Wes has been lightyears ahead of players on the field, playing balls on clever movement which he expects... But the receiving player is not on the same wavelength and, as a result it looks like a poor pass*.

Is RvW the player who will match Wesley''s expectations? Now that excites me. Greatly. In fact if that link occurs with any of our wide players, he really could be a goal machine.

If he''s on another level with his movement and we''re trying to hit where he is when the ball is played.. Then, he''s going to get frustrated.

* I don''t think i need to make it clear that i love Wes and will defend him at all costs! :)

[Budapest Canary 154]

While playing against set up defenses may not be RvW''s main strength, some of his Sporting games I saw suggest that he''s quite good at fast counterattacks, which Sporting seemed to have done a lot. I have no problem seeing us sitting back deep and soaking up pressure, then ka-boom, someone to release Redmond on the wing, Ricky to arrive and score.... or something to that effect...

[Salopian 1]

I think that it may take a few weeks to learn how best to use RvW, but I think that we have players capable of feeding him, (and for that matter Hooper as well, - many of his better goals were pushed through to enable him to run on to.)

 

We have players like Surman, Howson, Wes who can play short incisive passes, and we have Fox and Fer able to play long balls through. (Fer may be good at the short pass game as well.) Team selection may become a matter of whom we are playing - are the CBs slow, are their fullbacks quick, etc., but I don''t rule out several goals for RvW. Some of his goals were scored within a crowded penalty area, even on the edge, as he makes have a pace for himself to shoot.

 

Neither Hooper nor RvW are outstandingly quick, although quick enough if the ball is passed well, or crossed well. Clearly there will be much to discuss and to practice in training!

[pilksfanclub 0]

"I think this is the point. The way Hughton has set his teams up in the past they have played in a way that meant they weren''t often chasing a game. Fluid, consistent and confident looking football is what he is known for. Last season was a difficult one for him on many levels but we saw glimpses of that. He will not need to change systems/formations that much because we will be playing in a way that will mean we do not need to."

I literally have no recollection of his Newcastle premier league team playing like that. I don''t think there is a way which means you don''t change formation it is just you make adjustments rather than huge changes. Even Barcelona have to make such adjustments.

@salopian RVP isn''t quick he just has wonderful movement. You can make up for the lack of pace with great anticipation and movement. One of the things is we do lack players who can make those passes imo. We very rarely play through balls under Lambert or Hughton. Play less long balls now though!