Why?

[Clint 221]

Is it that if anyone posts a negative view on here that they are a troll?  Or that if anyone questions the team selection, tactics etc, they are an idiot to question Hughton''s judgement?I''ve been to almost every match home and away this season (inc cup games) so feel that I have a right to express an opinion on here without being shot down by those who only ever see the club and management in a positive light.We have now lost 5 out of the last 6 matches, have looked second best for the most part and and have barely mustered a shot on target in several of these games (seemingly being hugely reliant on set-pieces to get goals) whilst conceding plenty of goals. I appreciate we''ve had some tough matches but this is not the first time this season we''ve been on a similar poor run.  We''ve also not won a match in the league in which we''ve gone behind in this season so I think people have a right to question the team selection, tactics and possibly more importantly, the substitutions and lack of a plan B.

 

[Duncan Edwards 0]

[quote user="Clint"]
We have now lost 5 out of the last 6 matches, have looked second best for the most part and and have barely mustered a shot on target in several of these games (seemingly being hugely reliant on set-pieces to get goals) whilst conceding plenty of goals. 

 
[/quote]

 

Which games were these?

 

 

[City 2nd 191]

Because Morrisons Prozac says so! He is the master who k ows all, and no one is allowed an opinion!

[BigFish 1,988]

[quote user="Clint"]Is it that if anyone posts a negative view on here that they are a troll?  Or that if anyone questions the team selection, tactics etc, they are an idiot to question Hughton''s judgement?I''ve been to almost every match home and away this season (inc cup games) so feel that I have a right to express an opinion on here without being shot down by those who only ever see the club and management in a positive light.We have now lost 5 out of the last 6 matches, have looked second best for the most part and and have barely mustered a shot on target in several of these games (seemingly being hugely reliant on set-pieces to get goals) whilst conceding plenty of goals. I appreciate we''ve had some tough matches but this is not the first time this season we''ve been on a similar poor run.  We''ve also not won a match in the league in which we''ve gone behind in this season so I think people have a right to question the team selection, tactics and possibly more importantly, the substitutions and lack of a plan B.

 [/quote]

The simple reason is that so many of the posts are just plain dumb in a football sense and just ignore reality. Hughton has never gone overboard on the success of Plan A during the unbeaten run and now seems realatively calm now it is not going so well.

Some posters seem to have taken Lambert''s luck as tactical genius rather than desperately throwing the kitchen sink at it. That is not a plan B and its not working so well at Villa, is it?

Fact is Plan A allows us to put out (when fit) our best 11. On the wages we pay this is not going to match up to the big boys but it is the best we have. Organised well we can pick up points against anyone though. But we are not going to blow anyone away in this League, so a run of games where we lose by a single goal is also likely.

Too many of the squad that Lambert left behind are not Prem quality, he knew this which is why he left and that is what Hughton has been trying to fix but it takes time.

Playing those that arn''t good enough just to mix it up is stupid, particularly considering the amount of games it took to bed Plan A in.

Got it?

[dpit 1]

Yes, Big Fish. Got it in one. Silly ill informed panic being spouted on here at the moment. In the same way that silly ill informed hubris was being spouted on here during our run. It all boils down to the fact that we are doing incredibly well to compete with multi millionaire clubs and our overwhelming aim will be to keep fighting to stay up this year - whereupon we can reap the considerable financial reward that will result from this and look to the next step in our plan for gradual, rational development. (we hope!)

[Baldyboy 0]

Careful Clint you are not toeing the pink unmessageboard line with that opinion!!!

[Clint 221]

Duncan, just out of politeness (as I''m sure you really know which games they were):Villa (h) - lost 4-1 - enough saidWest Brom (a) - lost 2-1 - didn''t go but our only goal was from a set-piece and the goals conceded were poorChelsea (h) - lost 1-0 - I don''t recall Czech having to make a save of noteMan City (h)- lost 4-3 - all our goals came as a result of set-pieces and we conceded some poor goals against a team with 10 menWest Ham (a) - lost 2-1 - Jaaskalienen didn''t make a save of note and the goals conceced were poorWould you like me to do the same for the poor run earlier in the season which included matches against Fulham, QPR, West Ham, Liverpool and Newcastle?  

[Baldyboy 0]

you are asking to be added to the list of trolls Clint!! Careful!! (you are quite correct but it doesnt matter because we are little Norwich and we should remember who we are playing!!!)

[Clint 221]

Big Fish, that is exactly the sort of rubbish I was talking about in my post.I have no issue with your opinions and you make some valid points but where have I mentioned Lambert, although perhaps I should have done as your reply seems to focus on him and the reasons why he left (is that fact, by the way?)I made some points based on fact.  We''ve not won a league game in which we''ve been behind this season, why is that?  As evidenced in my post to DE, we''re not creating a great deal of chances or scoring many goals from open play, why is that?Perhaps you could answer the points raised rather than going off on a tangent about our former manager?  Also, putting ''get it'' on the end of your post makes you sound like a bit of an arrogant fool.   

[Salopian 1]

There is a certain amount of hit and miss as to whether you are called a troll or not. So far I have avoided it, and have merely been ignored when I posted, or not understood, perhaps.

 

Much surely depends on how colourful your language is, and for what reasons you advance for your views. I think that your arguments about leaking goals again, and goal-shy strikers, should be open to discussion, and you are entitled to your views. Dismissing a poster because his views are not shared by one or two self-important members is to be regretted. If I or anyone else expresses a view not shared by others, it is up to them to advance reasons why they do not share your view, but to do it in a non-abusive way. I suspect that dismissing people as trolls or idiots often arises from endless repetition of a view, - hence the short, and more kindly use of the message "yawn".

 

I would go some way in sharing your view about the last five games. I have CH as evidence that we are not scoring enough goals, and we are again making basic defensive errors. Added to this we have generally not played at our best during the period. I think that you have to give credit to opposing managers and clubs. They have seen us for a season and a half and they have adopted tactics to nullify us. It sometimes takes Wes a large part of the game to get his activities going, and Holt doesn''t get many sniffs of the ball. We are up against Premiership manager and players who are able to counteract our methods, which is what I hope we also try to do.

[Orford65 0]

[quote user="Clint"]Big Fish, that is exactly the sort of rubbish I was talking about in my post.I have no issue with your opinions and you make some valid points but where have I mentioned Lambert, although perhaps I should have done as your reply seems to focus on him and the reasons why he left (is that fact, by the way?)I made some points based on fact.  We''ve not won a league game in which we''ve been behind this season, why is that?  As evidenced in my post to DE, we''re not creating a great deal of chances or scoring many goals from open play, why is that?Perhaps you could answer the points raised rather than going off on a tangent about our former manager?  Also, putting ''get it'' on the end of your post makes you sound like a bit of an arrogant fool.    [/quote]

Because we currently haven''t got an effing  striker worthy of the name - we need one(or preferably two) now!

[Duncan Edwards 0]

Clint, just out of politeness (as I''m sure that having been to all our games, you''ll have seen us win some)

 

Villa - lost 4-1. Not enough said. Morison should have had a hat-trick and we created ample chances to win the game before capitulating in the last 10 minutes.

West Brom - Lost 2-1 - A goal from a set piece is worth the same as an overhead kick, isn''t it?

Chelsea - Lost 1-0 - to a screamer against the European Champions - I don''t recall them exactly bombarding our keeper either.

Man City - Lost 4-3 - Again goals from set-pieces DO count.

West Ham - Lost 2-1 - Shocking penalty decisions, second goal was a scramble, Jaaskelainen didn''t make a save but we scored, hit the post and should have had at least one penalty

 

Now. Goals come as a result of mistakes. When we score, often it will be the result of a mistake by an opposition player. When we concede goals it will often be the result of a mistake by one of ours. Therefore you could define all goals as being poor one way or another. Is the fact that we are decent at set plays a problem? Is the fact that we have a player scoring direct from free-kicks disastrous? I don''t recall United fans moaning about Beckham or Ronaldo or the fact that when they won the champions league in 99 the goals came from Beckham dead balls?

 

 

[BigFish 1,988]

[quote user="Clint"]Big Fish, that is exactly the sort of rubbish I was talking about in my post.I have no issue with your opinions and you make some valid points but where have I mentioned Lambert, although perhaps I should have done as your reply seems to focus on him and the reasons why he left (is that fact, by the way?)I made some points based on fact.  We''ve not won a league game in which we''ve been behind this season, why is that?  As evidenced in my post to DE, we''re not creating a great deal of chances or scoring many goals from open play, why is that?Perhaps you could answer the points raised rather than going off on a tangent about our former manager?  Also, putting ''get it'' on the end of your post makes you sound like a bit of an arrogant fool.    [/quote]

Ah, seems you didn''t get it Clink my friend. You asked why so many negative posters get called Trolls and I answered that before admittedly heading off on a tangent about my view of the state of the team. You make some good points that don''t really match up to the theme of the thread you started. The key to me, and why I raised the previous manager, is that the trolls seem to have rose tinted spectacles regarding last season that underpins their spurious arguments.

As to being an arrogant fool, if you can''t do it on this message board where can you?

[Clint 221]

DE, being good at set-pieces is certainly a good thing (and something that we''ve not really had for many years) but we must not become over reliant on it.  Big Fish, for every negative view, of course, there is always a positive.  As long as someone has a valid arguement either way, then that''s fine by me.  You are right about the rose tinted spectacles but some people use them to look back at previous regimes and some are using them to look at the current regime.  Both are wrong IMHO and I will always try to take a balanced view. 

[Number 9 0]

Clint, ALMOST every game?

BINNER!!!

[Cambridgeyellow 0]

[quote user="Clint"]Is it that if anyone posts a negative view on here that they are a troll?  Or that if anyone questions the team selection, tactics etc, they are an idiot to question Hughton''s judgement?

I''ve been to almost every match home and away this season (inc cup games) so feel that I have a right to express an opinion on here without being shot down by those who only ever see the club and management in a positive light.

We have now lost 5 out of the last 6 matches, have looked second best for the most part and and have barely mustered a shot on target in several of these games (seemingly being hugely reliant on set-pieces to get goals) whilst conceding plenty of goals. I appreciate we''ve had some tough matches but this is not the first time this season we''ve been on a similar poor run.  We''ve also not won a match in the league in which we''ve gone behind in this season so I think people have a right to question the team selection, tactics and possibly more importantly, the substitutions and lack of a plan B.



 
[/quote]

Maybe we should beg Lambert to come back. He certainly is smashing the records at Villa. Worst premier league start ever, worst defeat in premier league and on course to conceed a record amount of goals. You may have seen on Sky the other day the Villa fan being interviewed who when asked how could Lambert turn things around he simply replied - QUIT.

People are not objecting to your negative comments about certain games they are objecting to people trying to claim we would have been in a better position without Hughton. The other major problem is that certain posters were calling for Hughtons head near the begginning of the season. Those very same posters dissappeared and have now suddenly reappeared ( some using different names ) gradually moving towards posting Hughton out. Thats why people are considering these posters as trolls. If you really think we are that bad ( not sure of the price now ) but at the weekend we were 12/1 to be relegated. Have a few quid on it !! For my part I backed before christmas Lambert to be the next manager sacked at 25/1 he is now 5/4. 

[barclay_boy111 0]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]

Clint, just out of politeness (as I''m sure that having been to all our games, you''ll have seen us win some)

 

Villa - lost 4-1. Not enough said. Morison should have had a hat-trick and we created ample chances to win the game before capitulating in the last 10 minutes.

West Brom - Lost 2-1 - A goal from a set piece is worth the same as an overhead kick, isn''t it?

Chelsea - Lost 1-0 - to a screamer against the European Champions - I don''t recall them exactly bombarding our keeper either.

Man City - Lost 4-3 - Again goals from set-pieces DO count.

West Ham - Lost 2-1 - Shocking penalty decisions, second goal was a scramble, Jaaskelainen didn''t make a save but we scored, hit the post and should have had at least one penalty

 

[/quote]

Vila- if Morison should have had a hatrick how is it he dident even convert 1 of then?

Westbrom- that''s not even an argument

Chelsea- what does the fact they are European champions have anything to do with it?

Man city- yes goals from set prices do count but u can''t realy on beating a team purely from goals that came from set pieces!

West ham- was a penalty, performance from the team was an absolute joke

People need to take there green and yellow specs off.

And as for people constantly bringing up the previously management as an argument need to forget the past and move on.

Compleatly agree with what the OP has posted And has not said lambert would do a better job as to the previously posters nonsense.

[barclay_boy111 0]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]

Clint, just out of politeness (as I''m sure that having been to all our games, you''ll have seen us win some)

 

Villa - lost 4-1. Not enough said. Morison should have had a hat-trick and we created ample chances to win the game before capitulating in the last 10 minutes.

West Brom - Lost 2-1 - A goal from a set piece is worth the same as an overhead kick, isn''t it?

Chelsea - Lost 1-0 - to a screamer against the European Champions - I don''t recall them exactly bombarding our keeper either.

Man City - Lost 4-3 - Again goals from set-pieces DO count.

West Ham - Lost 2-1 - Shocking penalty decisions, second goal was a scramble, Jaaskelainen didn''t make a save but we scored, hit the post and should have had at least one penalty

 

[/quote]

Villa- if Morison should have had a hatrick how is it he dident even convert 1 of then?

Westbrom- that''s not even an argument

Chelsea- what does the fact they are European champions have anything to do with it?

Man city- yes goals from set prices do count but u can''t realy on beating a team purely from goals that came from set pieces!

West ham- was a penalty, performance from the team was an absolute joke

People need to take there green and yellow specs off.

And as for people constantly bringing up the previously management as an argument need to forget the past and move on. Compleatly agree with what the OP has posted And has not said lambert would do a better job so don''t understand how people are arguing about it?

We have been playing Poorly, even during the 10 game unbeaten run we were lucky to get that far.

[Evesham Canary 0]

Barclay Boy - I believe Morison did score one against Villa.....

Difficult to judge this season - the first 7 games included 2 absolute shockers against Fulham and Liverpool, one game against a red hot Chelsea and 4 other games where we were competitive. We then had a fantastic 10 game unbeaten run with a largely settled side. In the last 4 games all lost by a single goal we have had many changes forced on us - Holt has only played in one of the games and he his absolutely key to our way of playing, I firmly believe we would have got something out of the Man C game had he been fully fit and playing. We are also missing our 1st choice keeper - in addition the likes of Whittaker, Garrido & Johnson have missed games. Whilst Big Sam made much of West Ham missing 4 or 5 key players we had Ruddy, Whittaker, Garrido, Johnson, Holt and Morison all missing.

Lets be honest we have struggled to create chances from open play all season but we are probably the most dangerous team in the league from set pieces.

Like Clint I try not to over react to a few bad results of a few good ones but I do think some of the current comments are ridiculous. Yes, we have lost the last 4 games but look at who we have played. WBA have one of the best home records in the league so no disgrace losing there (7 wins in 10 games). A lot of teams will lose at home to Chelsea and Man C this season and again West Ham have a great home record. Clearly we played both Chelsea and Man C at the wrong time - Chelsea before the fatique has set in and Man C when they were reacting to a defeat. It was a good time to play est Ham with their injuries/suspensions but we had just as many out.

We are a team that will have a couple of bad spells and if you look at WBA and Swansea they both had 4 or 5 game poor runs off the back of very good runs. Most of us would have been happy to have 25 points at this point.

At least it has stopped all the nonsense about European places etc!

[Olly 0]

[quote user="Clint"]Is it that if anyone posts a negative view on here that they are a troll?  Or that if anyone questions the team selection, tactics etc, they are an idiot to question Hughton''s judgement?I''ve been to almost every match home and away this season (inc cup games) so feel that I have a right to express an opinion on here without being shot down by those who only ever see the club and management in a positive light.We have now lost 5 out of the last 6 matches, have looked second best for the most part and and have barely mustered a shot on target in several of these games (seemingly being hugely reliant on set-pieces to get goals) whilst conceding plenty of goals. I appreciate we''ve had some tough matches but this is not the first time this season we''ve been on a similar poor run.  We''ve also not won a match in the league in which we''ve gone behind in this season so I think people have a right to question the team selection, tactics and possibly more importantly, the substitutions and lack of a plan B.

 [/quote]

I don''t think people with negative views should be dismissed as trolls and people do have a right to express there opinions.

I personally think we overreact a heck of a lot as fans. We have to accept that everynow and again we aren''t going to play at our best, and that we aren''t the attacking force that we were last season and that we will go on runs where we don''t pick up the desired results.

But what we do have is 25pts going into the start of 2013, which I''m sure every single canary out there would of accepted! Realistically we only need another 12-15pts to stay in the division which is the ultimate aim this season.

We have a tough run in January (Newcastle/Spurs home, Liverpool away) from which I hope we can get 3 points realistically! Hughton knows we have to strengthen and he will in time, and I am confident that we will be seeing the likes of RVP return to Carrow Road next season. That''s if he is happy to go into Bassong''s pocket again ;)

[Olly 0]

And on the whole "we only score from set pieces thing". It really doesn''t matter how we score goals. Last season we scored a lot of headed goals, so in theory we should score a lot from set pieces (especially with Snodgrass''s delivery which is the best we''ve had in a long time!)

At the end of the day as long as the ball ends up in the net who cares how it gets there! :)