"Three years of relentless success"

[Koreacanary 0]

I think we have decent strikers but I would liked to have seen a real quality addition to generate genuine competition obviously Harry Kane could be that addition but we will have to see.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="ricardo"]We seem stronger than last year in one sense yet we have lost that ability to change things within a game that brought us unlikely points last year. I don''t really know how to put it into words but it''s like we have become more orthodox whereas with Lambert we had an ability to show a different face even though we were a bit fragile. Now we have lost some of that fragility but in doing so we have become more predictable.  I don''t know if that makes much sense but that is the way it feels to me.
[/quote]



That is a brilliant description of things.   It shows how things are,  post Lambert.    Where I would expand on that from my point of view would be to say that this had to happen.    Lambert was a  one trick pony (imo).   Attitude was everything - up and at ''em, never give in.    Defensive frailty meant we were constantly coming back from a goal or two behind - not a good long term strategy.     Hughton has done excactly what was expected - bought in better players, worked on the defence, perhaps better coaching - and there are improvements to be seen.   


[/quote]

 

So, to say we were constantly coming back from a goal or two behind last season is not only harsh, it is incorrect. This season, although we have begun to put in decent performances, we are struggling for goals and points. In three of the five games this season we have been behind and only led in one, which we eventually tied. We failed to find the net in the other home game. Last season we were ahead in 9 of the first 16 games. This obviously gave the team a lot of belief. There is a difference in the two seasons but not in the way you characterised it. We will see if that difference gets corrected or not.[/quote]




I don''t think you took my point as I meant it, which is probably my fault, but the fact remains that were constantly falling behind in games due to defensive frailties last season - and the season before.  Not always coming back to draw or win, but still falling behind in matches though ''unforced errors''.    You can quote stats at me as much as you like, but my point is accurate.     Shooting ourselves in the foot happened time and time again which meant we were always chasing games - regardless of the outcome of the match.  Whats the stat for falling behind through simple defensive errors?  Difficult to work out - but I would wager that over 38 games it was well over 50%.   




[/quote]

 

LDC, I think I highlighted the point you made and, in fact, which you make again, i.e. "we were CONSTANTLY falling behind in games due to defensive frailties last season", and I reacted to it with the facts. We were not CONSTANTLY falling behind last season. It did happen in the 15 matches we lost but, again, as I pointed out to you previously, teams at our level are going to lose matches in the Premiership. However, in the other 23 games I pointed out to you that we were not CONSTANTLY falling behind. We were ahead 68% of the time and yielded 47 points out of those 23 games. Not bad at all. So your use of the word CONSTANTLY is not correct.  Of course we made defensive errors. They get made every week in most Premiership matches. The lower skilled teams will usually make more than their share.

 

Now LDC, I''m really not picking on you here. You make a lot of good points regarding where we are at and that we need to be positive both now and in the future. However, the present and the future should not be enhanced by re-writing history, particularly as it relates to last season''s great effort. Too many people did that regarding Nigel Worthington''s tenure as manager. When he went it was time for him to go, however, it should not have been forgotten ( as some did ) that we had some good times during his tenure. Paul Lambert learned in his time here, which is why we were able to do as well as we did last season.

 

It will be interesting to see, when this season is done and dusted how many points we gain, how many games we fall behind, how many defensive errors were  made compared to last season. If we do as well as we did last season we should all be more than happy.

 

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

LDC, I think I highlighted the point you made and, in fact, which you make again, i.e. "we were CONSTANTLY falling behind in games due to defensive frailties last season", and I reacted to it with the facts. We were not CONSTANTLY falling behind last season. It did happen in the 15 matches we lost but, again, as I pointed out to you previously, teams at our level are going to lose matches in the Premiership. However, in the other 23 games I pointed out to you that we were not CONSTANTLY falling behind. We were ahead 68% of the time and yielded 47 points out of those 23 games. Not bad at all. So your use of the word CONSTANTLY is not correct.  Of course we made defensive errors. They get made every week in most Premiership matches. The lower skilled teams will usually make more than their share.

 

Now LDC, I''m really not picking on you here. You make a lot of good points regarding where we are at and that we need to be positive both now and in the future. However, the present and the future should not be enhanced by re-writing history, particularly as it relates to last season''s great effort. Too many people did that regarding Nigel Worthington''s tenure as manager. When he went it was time for him to go, however, it should not have been forgotten ( as some did ) that we had some good times during his tenure. Paul Lambert learned in his time here, which is why we were able to do as well as we did last season.  It will be interesting to see, when this season is done and dusted how many points we gain, how many games we fall behind, how many defensive errors were  made compared to last season. If we do as well as we did last season we should all be more than happy.

 

[/quote]

YC -  ''Constantly'' means to me that we kept making simple  mistakes.   I don''t think that can be argued.    If you want to argue about what the word ''constantly'' means, then I won''t detain you.   The fact remains that we lost too many goals last season through too many basic errors in defence.  Are you really arguing otherwise??      If I am right you are saying we went behind in 15 matches we lost and approx 8 others.   23 games.   More than half of the matches.  I don''t statistically know which mistakes happened where, but to say I am rewriting history is a bit harsh.  There were too many mistakes - fact. 

The point you are disputing with me  is over a single  word, not a situation at the club or anything to do with football.    

 

[paul moy 235]

Just wanted to say ''Obama for President'' !!!!  [<:o)]

[marvin the martian 0]

Whatever you do dont''t get on a plane with Romney, he may try to open a window [:)]

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="marvin the martian"]Whatever you do dont''t get on a plane with Romney, he may try to open a window [:)][/quote]

I think it is our friend, Houston Canary, that is backing ''foot in mouth'' Nit Romney.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

LDC, I think I highlighted the point you made and, in fact, which you make again, i.e. "we were CONSTANTLY falling behind in games due to defensive frailties last season", and I reacted to it with the facts. We were not CONSTANTLY falling behind last season. It did happen in the 15 matches we lost but, again, as I pointed out to you previously, teams at our level are going to lose matches in the Premiership. However, in the other 23 games I pointed out to you that we were not CONSTANTLY falling behind. We were ahead 68% of the time and yielded 47 points out of those 23 games. Not bad at all. So your use of the word CONSTANTLY is not correct.  Of course we made defensive errors. They get made every week in most Premiership matches. The lower skilled teams will usually make more than their share.

 

Now LDC, I''m really not picking on you here. You make a lot of good points regarding where we are at and that we need to be positive both now and in the future. However, the present and the future should not be enhanced by re-writing history, particularly as it relates to last season''s great effort. Too many people did that regarding Nigel Worthington''s tenure as manager. When he went it was time for him to go, however, it should not have been forgotten ( as some did ) that we had some good times during his tenure. Paul Lambert learned in his time here, which is why we were able to do as well as we did last season.  It will be interesting to see, when this season is done and dusted how many points we gain, how many games we fall behind, how many defensive errors were  made compared to last season. If we do as well as we did last season we should all be more than happy.

 

[/quote]



YC -  ''Constantly'' means to me that we kept making simple  mistakes.   I don''t think that can be argued.    If you want to argue about what the word ''constantly'' means, then I won''t detain you.   The fact remains that we lost too many goals last season through too many basic errors in defence.  Are you really arguing otherwise??      If I am right you are saying we went behind in 15 matches we lost and approx 8 others.   23 games.   More than half of the matches.  I don''t statistically know which mistakes happened where, but to say I am rewriting history is a bit harsh.  There were too many mistakes - fact. 


The point you are disputing with me  is over a single  word, not a situation at the club or anything to do with football.     



[/quote]

 

LDC, now you can''t see the forest for the trees and conveniently forget the point that you made, namely, that we needed to move on from the one-trick pony you called Paul Lambert who contributed to our defensive frailties, thereby causing us to constantly need to come from behind. If you care to think clearly regarding clubs in the middle and particularly lower half of the table last season Norwich did comparitively well regarding having their share of games in taking the lead.   The bigger football picture I am attempting to point out to you is that your belief that we have improved from where Paul Lambert had us last year is misguided currently. To date, compared to last season, we have scored less goals, conceded more and have less points, and have made our share of defensive errors. It is early days in the season, however, my point to you on the football side of things is, it''s also early days for you to be making a judgment that we have improved. Further, it''s certainly not fair for you to do so by attempting to take the shine off what was achieved last season. That is what I am disputing.  

[a1canary 0]

Ahhh, shame, it was all going along so swimmingly until you two started flirting!

For what it''s worth, i don''t think LDC said we had definitively improved as a team under Hughton - that''s not a judgement he was trying to make or that anyone can make at this stage - just that he could see improvements in defensive areas. I wouldn''t argue with that, despite the stats which are clearly distorted by the Fulham game. Imagine if we had either Man City games as our first fixture last year...

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="a1canary"]

Ahhh, shame, it was all going along so swimmingly until you two started flirting!

For what it''s worth, i don''t think LDC said we had definitively improved as a team under Hughton - that''s not a judgement he was trying to make or that anyone can make at this stage - just that he could see improvements in defensive areas. I wouldn''t argue with that, despite the stats which are clearly distorted by the Fulham game. Imagine if we had either Man City games as our first fixture last year...

[/quote]

Thanks a1,  I do think the nit-picking is uneccessary.   It is after all my opinion that there are certain areas that appear to be improving - ie - defensively - and the matches I have been to - QPR, West Ham and Newcastle all gave me the feeling that we are more secure in that area.  Its only an opinion of course, as is my view that PL was limited in his tactical awareness, his never say die compettitve attitude admirable - but learning as he was going along in terms of tactics and team selection and quite often (I won''t say constantly again, or I''ll get told off again) having to react after going behind in a match - mainly through defensive mistakes.  

[Mister Chops 7]

I am not going to make any "smart remarks" but I think it''s unfair to cast Lambert as a one trick pony, unless the one trick was "being successful".  He showed plenty of tactical ability from day 1 in League 1 (I think from memory we stole a win from Leyton Orient with 10 men after Holt was sent off because at half time we went 3 at the back and Chris Martin scored the winner.  If the exact details aren''t correct, it''s broadly accurate.)  His ability to mix it up with substitutions and tactical adjustments was up there with the best I''ve seen.I also don''t think it''s fair to criticise Lambert because players made basic defensive errors (step forward, Richie De Laet).  Is a manager responsible for the errors that players make?  Possibly as an accomplice depending on the instructions he''s given them but I''m fairly sure Lambert never asked players to under-hit back passes or to hit cross-field passes across our own penalty box.  Those errors may partly be due to Lambert telling the team to go out and play and not worry too much about mistakes, but I lived through the Glenn Roeder era where the players were scared to so much as look the wrong way, and the result was awful mechanical soulless percentage football where players were automatons carrying out instructions.  The last three years under Lambert brought joy back to the club and the players - the simple joy of playing and watching football without fear and with confidence.  It didn''t always work and we had some awful performances under Lambert too, but the overall trajectory of the club was up and up and up.It''s too early to make judgement on Hughton and I''m not going to do that, and perhaps it is unfair to compare him to what went before in the same way that our next number 9 will live in the shadow of Grant Holt; in that respect it was a tough job to take.  And Purple Canary has wise words on the folly of looking to replace the irreplaceable - otherwise we''d have appointed someone like Holloway and would end up chasing games playing kamikaze football.All I feel is that the magic era has gone and we are now one of the smaller Premier League clubs scrapping for our lives in the top flight of English football.  I''m happy to be there compared to the Championship, god knows, but I sense a collective reality check has taken place for most fans.I''m not going to run Paul Lambert down to make Chris Hughton look better, neither will I compare Hughton to Lambert for better or worse, and neither will I assume Hughton has positive or negative qualities I haven''t seen for myself.  I''ll judge Hughton on what he achieves, and I will always be glad Paul Lambert managed our football club because of what he achieved for us as much as for himself.  He and his management team were magnificent for us.

[lake district canary 0]

I may have sounded harsh on Lambert.   It was not intentional.   I don''t question his impact on our club, especially in League 1 and the championship.  However, his inexperience did show in the premiership first season.  He did a brilliant job last season overall, but it was tempered with some unusual team selections and tactics.    However, he was always positive and it was that which I believe allowed us to do so well.  

The proof of the new regime will be later on this season.   However, I don''t think that Hughton is getting enough credit and I certainly don''t feel less optimistic  about this season than I did last.   Hughton imo is a class act and although it will undoubtedly take a while for things to settle and the results to come, we have not done that badly.   All we need is a goal to kick start the season.

 

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="lake district canary"]I may have sounded harsh on Lambert.   It was not intentional.   I don''t question his impact on our club, especially in League 1 and the championship.  However, his inexperience did show in the premiership first season.  He did a brilliant job last season overall, but it was tempered with some unusual team selections and tactics.    However, he was always positive and it was that which I believe allowed us to do so well.  


The proof of the new regime will be later on this season.   However, I don''t think that Hughton is getting enough credit and I certainly don''t feel less optimistic  about this season than I did last.   Hughton imo is a class act and although it will undoubtedly take a while for things to settle and the results to come, we have not done that badly.   All we need is a goal to kick start the season. 


[/quote]

Lambert with his ''inexperience'' kept us in the Prem without any problems whatsoever, so I find it perverse that you criticise him in that way, especially as he was renowned for successful experimentation on formations etc. Let''s hope Hughton with similar credentials can do the same or you''re going to look pretty stupid.  

[a1canary 0]

And now you have one!

(albeit against Doncaster!)

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]I may have sounded harsh on Lambert.   It was not intentional.   I don''t question his impact on our club, especially in League 1 and the championship.  However, his inexperience did show in the premiership first season.  He did a brilliant job last season overall, but it was tempered with some unusual team selections and tactics.    However, he was always positive and it was that which I believe allowed us to do so well.   The proof of the new regime will be later on this season.   However, I don''t think that Hughton is getting enough credit and I certainly don''t feel less optimistic  about this season than I did last.   Hughton imo is a class act and although it will undoubtedly take a while for things to settle and the results to come, we have not done that badly.   All we need is a goal to kick start the season. 

[/quote]

Lambert with his ''inexperience'' kept us in the Prem without any problems whatsoever, so I find it perverse that you criticise him in that way, especially as he was renowned for successful experimentation on formations etc. Let''s hope Hughton with similar credentials can do the same or you''re going to look pretty stupid.  

[/quote]

Umm......if you take your Lambert tinted glasses off, you would see things a bit more objectively, PM.     To say there were ''no problems whatever'' is slightly over effusive.    Inexperience or not, he did a fantastic job, but if you think all of his tactics and team selections were correct - then you have blinkers on.     Very nice of you to mention ''stupidity''  by the way,   but it goes with the territory of posting on here.    You of all people should know that...................

 

[Evesham Canary 0]

I think some of the Lambert magic was just beginning to wear off in the last couple of months of the season. Defeats began to feel inevitable (with the notable exception of Spurs away) - I accept this might have been the "we''ve got 40 points and are safe" syndrome kicking in. It also took a long time for us to beat one of the big 6 which most of the other sides had already done. What we generally always did well under Lambert was beat the lesser teams in whatever league we were in & perhaps most importantly we generally won the "must win" games. That does seem to be missing at the minute.

As many have said the one thing Lambert never really sorted out was the defence. We conceded 50 plus goals when winning promotion and conceded a shed load last year. It was clear that when Hughton came in the first thing he would try and address was the defence - after the debacle at Fulham this has been achieved with just 4 goals conceded in 6 league & cup games. You do at least feel that we can grind out 0-0''s when we don''t play well which I always felt was something previously missing from our locker. However what usually happens is that the goals can dry up at the other end and this what we have found.

The Liverpool game is very important but they are picking up over the last 2 or 3 games. This is followed by 2 very tough games against Chelsea and Arsenal - so we could quite easily be looking at no win in our first 8 games. We are capable of winning any of these games if we play at our best and the opposition are not at their best but we do need to be realistic here and say that points from these 3 games will be bonus points.

I firmly believe this will be a long hard season but I do believe we are capable of surviving - I still think we will finish just above the drop zone on 42/43 points.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Evesham Canary"]

The Liverpool game is very important but they are picking up over the last 2 or 3 games. This is followed by 2 very tough games against Chelsea and Arsenal - so we could quite easily be looking at no win in our first 8 games. We are capable of winning any of these games if we play at our best and the opposition are not at their best but we do need to be realistic here and say that points from these 3 games will be bonus points.

I firmly believe this will be a long hard season but I do believe we are capable of surviving - I still think we will finish just above the drop zone on 42/43 points.

[/quote]

 

Evesham, we all hope we get our first win before eight games have elapsed. However, if we don''t, I''m sure you are aware of the challenge of  getting to your 42/43 point level.....it''s the equivalent of winning 13 of the 30 games remaining. That will be one tall order given that no team other than those in the top six had more than 15 wins in the whole of last season.

[Highland Canary 76]

An alternative way of thinking about the 42/43 points suggested is to try and identify three PL teams which you think are weaker than we are.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]An alternative way of thinking about the 42/43 points suggested is to try and identify three PL teams which you think are weaker than we are.[/quote]

I really cannot see us getting that number of points. Effectively one win in five games equates to around 8 wins in 38 = 24 points plus however many draws we achieve. Our points total will resemble 2004 IMO..... 33-35, unless something changes dramatically.

[Highland Canary 76]

I think that''s probably correct. Again tonight we lacked a clinical edge to our play. 2005 is a good analogy.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]I would like to think that most fans would agree with the sentiments of the opening post there.   However, all through the last three years - even though we have been successful, there has always been an undercurrent of  people ready to knock the players at the slightest thing.    The Morison thing last year was unbelievable.   The denigration of Ruddy at the start of last season was laughable.    But you are always going to get a section of the fans who will moan at anything.   You just have to hope that there are enough sensible people to drown out the noisy minority that are actually not helping the cause by their constantly finding fault for the sake of it.   The club is fantastic and has fantastic supporters.  I  think those that genuinely appreciate what is being done on the pitch and behind the scenes are in the vast majority and are keeping the faith.    


We need a goal or two to kick start the season - that would settle most of the supporters down, the genuinely concerned ones that is.  The idiots will still be idiots, however well the club is doing.




[/quote]

Every Club has them. It just seems that we have more than our fair share.

[Highland Canary 76]

I think it''s very sad that there is a lack respect on this message board to posters with differing views.

[Koreacanary 0]

What''s that Highland!?!?!? Lack of respect!?!?!?! You must be a binner!!! Get lost binner!!! Get off this message board and go and support your binner team down the road!!!!!!

[Katie Borkins 1]

Now if you ask old Bor, I reckon we wouldn''t have played that brand of safety first football under Lambert, but neither would we have lost our opening game 5-0 and stunk out all Craven Cottage with a terrible display.  That is way too early to judge whether Hughton is the right man to move our club forward but I don''t like the way the wind seems to be blowing.

 

Old Napoleon Bonaparte knew a thing or two more than me and he wanted lucky generals, not good ones.  That might well turn out that Lambert was lucky as well as good, and Hughton is merely unlucky and good.  That Kane injury didn''t look too clever but maybe Butterfield will give us a bit more bite and creativity in the final third.   A long season awaits but I reckon we''ll still be Premier League next season, by the skin of your teeth.

 

[Highland Canary 76]

That''s a disappointing response. I hadn''t appreciated that anything other than positive views were allowed. Fyi I''m an not an Ipswich and go to all our matches home and away.

I''ll make sure I post this in the future.

The team is developing under Hughton. Defence is stronger. We have options in midfield. We''re creating chances. Our forwards will score goals. We''ll finish 13th on 46 points. I expect to comfortably beat (insert team name) 3-0 on Saturday.

[Koreacanary 0]

It was a joke Highland.. I thought the emoticon might have given a hint... sorry if any offence was caused.

[Evesham Canary 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Evesham Canary"]

The Liverpool game is very important but they are picking up over the last 2 or 3 games. This is followed by 2 very tough games against Chelsea and Arsenal - so we could quite easily be looking at no win in our first 8 games. We are capable of winning any of these games if we play at our best and the opposition are not at their best but we do need to be realistic here and say that points from these 3 games will be bonus points.

I firmly believe this will be a long hard season but I do believe we are capable of surviving - I still think we will finish just above the drop zone on 42/43 points.

[/quote]

 

Evesham, we all hope we get our first win before eight games have elapsed. However, if we don''t, I''m sure you are aware of the challenge of  getting to your 42/43 point level.....it''s the equivalent of winning 13 of the 30 games remaining. That will be one tall order given that no team other than those in the top six had more than 15 wins in the whole of last season.

[/quote]

Did we not have 2 points after 4 games last year and yet managed 46 points by the end of the season? Most teams o/s the top 5 or 6 will have a spell of 7 or 8 games where results don''t go their way. 11 wins, 10 draws and 17 defeats would give us 43 points. Who would have thought that Wigan would win so many games at the end of last season? Wolves won their first 2 games last years and look what happened to them!

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Evesham Canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Evesham Canary"]

The Liverpool game is very important but they are picking up over the last 2 or 3 games. This is followed by 2 very tough games against Chelsea and Arsenal - so we could quite easily be looking at no win in our first 8 games. We are capable of winning any of these games if we play at our best and the opposition are not at their best but we do need to be realistic here and say that points from these 3 games will be bonus points.

I firmly believe this will be a long hard season but I do believe we are capable of surviving - I still think we will finish just above the drop zone on 42/43 points.

[/quote]

 

Evesham, we all hope we get our first win before eight games have elapsed. However, if we don''t, I''m sure you are aware of the challenge of  getting to your 42/43 point level.....it''s the equivalent of winning 13 of the 30 games remaining. That will be one tall order given that no team other than those in the top six had more than 15 wins in the whole of last season.

[/quote]

Did we not have 2 points after 4 games last year and yet managed 46 points by the end of the season? Most teams o/s the top 5 or 6 will have a spell of 7 or 8 games where results don''t go their way. 11 wins, 10 draws and 17 defeats would give us 43 points. Who would have thought that Wigan would win so many games at the end of last season? Wolves won their first 2 games last years and look what happened to them!

[/quote]

We managed so many points due to an overall attacking approach mainly in the second half of games with effective tactical substitutions. With a more defensive approach and less risk-taking that haul is very unlikely to happen as we defend points rather than trying to gain them.

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]While we are talking openly and honestly, for the three years our team had Lambert was in charge I genuinely felt that we were unafraid, we''d give it a go and we could win any game, no matter who we were playing or where we were playing them.  I don''t feel that way about the team now Hughton is in charge.  I believe we''ll settle for what we think we can achieve rather than daring to dream and to chase that dream, and the realisation of our own fallibility and our focus on defence at the expense of attack will be our downfall.  I no longer feel a defeat is a surprise, an almost physical shock; I feel resigned to it - accepting of it, almost.  I almost expect us to lose some games these days because we have stopped asking "what if?" and are self-conscious of our own weaknesses.  We have, as a team, stopped dreaming.It is a long way down from where we were.  Miserablist I may be, but that is how I feel.  There''s no gold at the end of the rainbow.[/quote]

Ditto - my expectations are completely different now!...

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Evesham Canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Evesham Canary"]

The Liverpool game is very important but they are picking up over the last 2 or 3 games. This is followed by 2 very tough games against Chelsea and Arsenal - so we could quite easily be looking at no win in our first 8 games. We are capable of winning any of these games if we play at our best and the opposition are not at their best but we do need to be realistic here and say that points from these 3 games will be bonus points.

I firmly believe this will be a long hard season but I do believe we are capable of surviving - I still think we will finish just above the drop zone on 42/43 points.

[/quote]

 

Evesham, we all hope we get our first win before eight games have elapsed. However, if we don''t, I''m sure you are aware of the challenge of  getting to your 42/43 point level.....it''s the equivalent of winning 13 of the 30 games remaining. That will be one tall order given that no team other than those in the top six had more than 15 wins in the whole of last season.

[/quote]

Did we not have 2 points after 4 games last year and yet managed 46 points by the end of the season? Most teams o/s the top 5 or 6 will have a spell of 7 or 8 games where results don''t go their way. 11 wins, 10 draws and 17 defeats would give us 43 points. Who would have thought that Wigan would win so many games at the end of last season? Wolves won their first 2 games last years and look what happened to them!

[/quote]

Yes Eversham, we did. However, I was reacting to your scenario after eight games. Last season we followed up the slow start with games against Bolton, Sunderland and Swansea, getting good results and, I suspect, it helped build the belief. Our next three games against Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal will probably be more challenging. If, going back to your scenario, we don''t get a win then it becomes much more challenging to find that belief when you find yourself near the bottom with very few goals scored.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Evesham Canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Evesham Canary"]

The Liverpool game is very important but they are picking up over the last 2 or 3 games. This is followed by 2 very tough games against Chelsea and Arsenal - so we could quite easily be looking at no win in our first 8 games. We are capable of winning any of these games if we play at our best and the opposition are not at their best but we do need to be realistic here and say that points from these 3 games will be bonus points.

I firmly believe this will be a long hard season but I do believe we are capable of surviving - I still think we will finish just above the drop zone on 42/43 points.

[/quote]

 

Evesham, we all hope we get our first win before eight games have elapsed. However, if we don''t, I''m sure you are aware of the challenge of  getting to your 42/43 point level.....it''s the equivalent of winning 13 of the 30 games remaining. That will be one tall order given that no team other than those in the top six had more than 15 wins in the whole of last season.

[/quote]

Did we not have 2 points after 4 games last year and yet managed 46 points by the end of the season? Most teams o/s the top 5 or 6 will have a spell of 7 or 8 games where results don''t go their way. 11 wins, 10 draws and 17 defeats would give us 43 points. Who would have thought that Wigan would win so many games at the end of last season? Wolves won their first 2 games last years and look what happened to them!

[/quote]

Yes Eversham, we did. However, I was reacting to your scenario after eight games. Last season we followed up the slow start with games against Bolton, Sunderland and Swansea, getting good results and, I suspect, it helped build the belief. Our next three games against Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal will probably be more challenging. If, going back to your scenario, we don''t get a win then it becomes much more challenging to find that belief when you find yourself near the bottom with very few goals scored.

[/quote]

It''s also worth remembering that last year we conceded 5 penalties in the first 5 games if I remember correctly, so we would have had many more points at this stage last season but for that. I was only thinking this last night after hearing that Brendan Rogers has gone to the head of referees to complain that Liverpool have been treated unfairly by referees this season. How ironic that Lambert never complained about our treatment but simply got on with the job and turned our ''bad luck'' around. It''s just a shame that Rogers cannot do that and is instead trying to influence the referee for Saturday.