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Shyster

An Extremely Competent Defensive Midfielder.......

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...... and it will be possible for Hoolahan to play in central midfield within Hughtons preferred 4-4-2 [img]http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/emoticons/emotion-21.gif[/img]As far as my knowledge (which is pretty comprehensive on a myriad subjects) of Hughton formations goes, he has never as a manager fielded a Diamond formation - a 4-5-1 on the rare occasion which proved costly, but seldom a formation that would accommodate a player such as Wesley.If Hoolahan is to remain at the club and play an effective role, I''m certain people will agree that the signing of a quality DMC is imperative, because we all know that putting the former on the flank is a big NO.And I''m not so sure that the acquisition of a DMC in the form of Keith Andrews is the answer - or am I underestimating the latter?

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[quote user="Jacko"]

He scored 9 goals in 20 games for Ipswich. Is he that defensive?

[/quote]

Defensive Midfielder is his job description. It''s worth bearing in mind that 4 of those goals he scored at sh@t-house were from direct free-kicks and 2 from the penalty spot. 

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Whatever formation we play a really good DM would be a good idea. I don''t think Keith Andrews is the answer, but an athletic, strong guy who can harry skill players would certainly help against the better sides in the division.

However I also expect Hughton will adopt a system that allows Wes to flourish.

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Guirane N''Daw? Played for Hughton at Birmingham (on loan from ligue 1 side A.S.S.E), 6ft 3in, plays defensive midfield or centre back. Offers very little going forward (didn''t score a goal in 19 appearances for Birmingham) but is excellent defensively, with great strength and tackling ability.
No rumours, just a suggestion. 

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[quote user="Shyster"][quote user="Jacko"]

He scored 9 goals in 20 games for Ipswich. Is he that defensive?

[/quote]

Defensive Midfielder is his job description. It''s worth bearing in mind that 4 of those goals he scored at sh@t-house were from direct free-kicks and 2 from the penalty spot.  [/quote]

Fair enough. I think playing Wes as an out and out central midfielder puts far too much pressure on the other holder in midfield though. I think even Chiek Tiote would struggle to contain everyone by himself. We experimented with this against Aston Villa at Villa Park. We played a flat midfield of Wesley, Pilks, Bennett and Johnson. We were completely overrun. I think you pretty much almost have to treat Wes as a forward almost rather than a midfielder.

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This is the issue with Wes you are always accomodating one of your most creative players.For me Wes is a catalyst from the bench for this season because of the very questions this post raises.He is not quite combatitive enough or robust for the central midfield role and certainly when we do not have the ball that will always be a weakness and hindernace in a midfield 4 or 5. He did not play close enough to Morison for many of the games when we played the 4-5-1.I do believe a competent strong defensive midfielder who can be that leader when we are out of possession and then grab possession and lead our attack. There are many out there in Europe, I still think Holden is worth a look at. But for me for our midfield to be a good premiership midfield we have a few players who will need to step up. Howson will be quality this season, Pilky is creative and for me our best dead ball player, EB will improve, Surman, Fox, Crofts and Johnson are all fighting to be involved. I think we need two starters to come into our midfield a winger and that defensive midfielder.We need our squad to be capable, injuries will happen and we cannot afford a light weight midfield in our second season in the premier league.

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There is no doubt that we need a very good defensive midfielder but I don''t think we need one just to accomodate Hoolahan.  IMO Hoolahan would be better as an impact sub and even last season I thought he had more of an impact coming off the bench.  A new defensive minded midfielder and Howson would be my preffered midfield pairing.

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I thought there was one match in particular towards the end of the season when Wes played as a straight m/f and had a really good game, one of his best - it might have been vs Everton? It may well be that Hughton doesn''t like to tinker as much as Lambert, and for me that is no bad thing - one of the main criticisms of PL was the seemingly unnecessary chopping and changing.

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I think a DFM needs to be strong and versatile. I don''t see WH as that.I think Fox is the best we''ve got for the role..

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I am with you boyo I think Wes is that impact sub and my god a brilliant one to bring on, a great catalyst.I do think we need that partner alongside Howson as that midfield pairing, for me Fox is not that player and certainly if Howson or a new combatative midfielder got injured I think we would be lightweight unless Johnson can prove he can come in again as he did at the start of last season. All our midfilelders when called upon did the job they were asked too. Did they enough to excel and guarantee a starting place? Well as I mentioned I believe Howson and possibly Pilky will get most time, I think Pilky can swap with EB for a slightly different form of attack. But we need a great threat on one of our wings.It is an exciting time, but I do hope we bring in quality into our first team. It is our first 11 where we need to add and possibly one or two for the bench. We need a very strong squad, we have achieved great things, great things. But this next season is going to be another great step if we can pull it off. The fixture list will dictate much of our season in regard to those games where we have a good chance of picking up points away or at home. Lets pray for not a tough start so we can get points on the board and move in the right direction.

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[quote user="York Canary"]I agree and I think that''s why PL wanted Anita in to partner Howson[/quote]

Never heard a rumour about PL wanting that player? According to Wiki, Vurnon Anita is only 5''6" - on that basis alone, he would never have made the NCFC Academy as a kid simply because he''s too small.

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[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]

[quote user="York Canary"]I agree and I think that''s why PL wanted Anita in to partner Howson[/quote]

Never heard a rumour about PL wanting that player? According to Wiki, Vurnon Anita is only 5''6" - on that basis alone, he would never have made the NCFC Academy as a kid simply because he''s too small.

[/quote]It wasn''t a rumour it was Ajax themselves who said that PL enquired about Anita before he left for Villa. Newcastle have since bid for him, but been knocked back and supposedly need to double their offer!

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[quote user="Gareth"]Guirane N''Daw? Played for Hughton at Birmingham (on loan from ligue 1 side A.S.S.E), 6ft 3in, plays defensive midfield or centre back. Offers very little going forward (didn''t score a goal in 19 appearances for Birmingham) but is excellent defensively, with great strength and tackling ability.
No rumours, just a suggestion. 
[/quote]

[img]http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/emoticons/emotion-21.gif[/img] Certainly fits the job description and a very good suggestion - most of us agree that a lack of quality in defense last season cost us the 66 goals against, so a defensive midfielder scoring a hatful of goals is not required here.I''ve chosen to ignore ''Jas the Barclay Queens'' post for obvious reasons.

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So having a player in the squad who can do the job already is worth ignoring....

If its not shysters way, it appears to be the highway.... I would pretend to care....

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Fox is a great player but not a defensive midfielder, he''s more of a Pirlo style regista. He plays deep like a DM but is there to dictate play when we have the ball, not to chase down the opposition for 90 minutes

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]So having a player in the squad who can do the job already is worth ignoring.... If its not shysters way, it appears to be the highway.... I would pretend to care....[/quote]

 

Speaking from recent experience and advice I received from other posters at the time - if you just tell him to f***  off - he will - its the only language he understands. [;)]

 

 

 

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[quote user="Mahogany"]Fox is a great player but not a defensive midfielder, he''s more of a Pirlo style regista. He plays deep like a DM but is there to dictate play when we have the ball, not to chase down the opposition for 90 minutes[/quote]

[img]http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/emoticons/emotion-21.gif[/img] Correct, Mahogany, Fox is a competent midfielder, but not a competent defensive midfielder and certainly not an extremely competent defensive midfielder.I don''t know what kind of response, if any, you''ll get from ''Jasmine The Barclay Queen'', but I''m pleased posters like yourself have replied to her on my behalf as it were -- I just can''t take her seriously.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]So having a player in the squad who can do the job already is worth ignoring.... If its not shysters way, it appears to be the highway.... I would pretend to care....[/quote]

 

Speaking from recent experience and advice I received from other posters at the time - if you just tell him to f***  off - he will - its the only language he understands. [;)]

 

 

 

[/quote]

Trunky want a bun?

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How about this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simão_Mate_Junior

Just released by Panathanikos. Looks like exactly what we are lacking, also he''s great on football manager :)

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Another suggestion:
Liam Bridcutt of Brighton and Hove Albion. 23 years old, 5ft 9in. Was often compare to Makelele when coming through the ranks at Chelsea, as well as being a solid defensive midfielder he''s also extremely composed on the ball (as in as good as Fox) would be a great buy. Problem is that Brighton have a very rich owner and our going to be aiming for promotion very soon and Poyet sees Bridcutt as being a central component of his team. IMO he''s better then N''Daw because of his technical ability but would cost a lot more. Swap deal with Crofts could be a possibility.

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N''Zonzi is a good shout and N''Daw. Bridcutt supposed to be great too but like you say, he''s key to Brighton and they don''t have to sell

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I agree we could use someone at DM position, but remember that there is lot of formations where Hooly can be used, not just diamon.

Hughton most likely will use boring 4-4-2, but in modern football there is 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-2 or even 3-6-1 where Hoolahan have spot for himself.

I could quite easily see us play any of these tactics even with our current team. For example.

-----------Holt/Morison---------------

Pilkington - Hooly - E.Bennet

---------Johnson-Howson---------

Tierney- Bennet - Ayala - Martin

This tactic thought screams better and faster right back and better defensive middlefielder.

And those who dont want to see Hooly on the field just replace him with Howson and add Fox on the bottom middlefield.

This formation is quite good by the way to see which area we are lacking most, if you add second choises without going on players who didnt play almost at all previous year..

-----------Morison/Vaughan-------------

Surman------- ? -----------------?---------

--------------Crofts --------Fox-------------

?/Lappin --Ward---- Barnett----- ?---

With those we have Jackson and Chris Martin as a supporting strikers and youngsters Adeyemi, Francomb and Smith.

So if I would be a manager I would first fill the spots on right and left and then think where we need more class.

I personaly keep my fingers crossed that Hughton has balls to pick modern tactic as the main reason we had to pick the ball from our own net so many times wasnt our defenders fault most of the times, it was because they didnt get enough support front of them.

But yeah I repeat myself. We could use solid, strong, ball winning middlefielder

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