Do incentives work?

[Salopian 1]

I have just listened to the Pinkun podcast. They agreed that Saturday was one of the poorest away games, if not the poorest all season. "Blackburn wanted it more than we did", was stated.

 

Are theteam over-confident, now that seemingly we are safe? They do not seem to putting the effort in that they did at Spurs, so are they tired from the long season?

 

What is worrying is that contract renewals seem to be lagging, as the club waits to see whom they may need next season. So do the players feel so protected that they need not exert themselves unduly, even though some know that they could be out by the summer?

 

We may know the answer next Saturday. If they cannot raise their game at home against a struggling Liverpool, then we shall know that there is something wrong with their incentives and commitment.

[marvin the martian 0]

Depends on the incentive, a night with Natalie Sawyer and Hollie Willoughby instead of cash ?

[Syteanric 1]

surely their weekly wage is incentive enough?i''d rub chilli powder on my B****ks for £15 grand a week!

[paul moy 235]

They lost the incentive as soon as we were considered safe. If they were offered an extra million pounds each to get in the top 8 I''m sure they would have shown more fight, but would that sort of expenditure be worth it ? No.

[Indy_Bones 444]

Incentives (at least financial ones like win bonuses) lost a huge amount of their power when players started getting paid massive money each week anyway.A 5k win bonus would be huge for a player on 1k a week or less, but for someone on 100k a week it''s virtual chump change.I remember reading in Gunny''s book that our wage structure during his time wasn''t massive, but we had a brilliant incentive system to make up numbers if they performed well and got numerous wins on the bounce.Shame the nature of the game now virtually prevents us from doing that again.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

It can still be done. Just there was no way our players were going to match the incentive Blackburn were playing with on Saturday, they were playing for their careers. It''s a bit of a reverse double jepardy really. If we lose the next 3 and play awful, we''ll still commend the players on their efforts this season and forget about the poor end. It''s a bit unprofessional if they stop caring now, but can we really get on their backs after keeping us in the premiership comfortably?

Maybe Lambert needs to look at the players who have a point to prove still such as Holt of England, Hoolahan and Pilks for Ireland, Drury etc for another year. Vaughan to prove he''s up to it and likewise with fringe players like Lappin, Crofts and Wilbraham. These guys still have a lot to play for.

[lake district canary 0]

In sport, there is a fine line in winning and losing.    The incentive for Man City and Blackburn - call it pressure if you like - was immense compared to ours in the last two matches.  You just can''t replicate the mental effort/adrenalin for pressure like that.    We are as good as safe and that inevitably means a very slight drop in incentive - not consciously maybe, but there nevertheless.  

It is wrong to assume the players have given up, gone on holiday etc. Some - as has been said - are playing for their careers - and their incentive is greater perhaps.  But overall, the team performance level may have dropped - just a fraction - and that is enough to show up in the last two matches.

I would expect the levels to be up again this weekend though as the Liverpool fixture is one to relish - for players and fans alike.  It won''t be the same as the last two matches - playing against sides that are battling for something - it will be a match where we now have something to prove, given the last two results - and  against a team who don''t have much to play for in the league.

Three great matches coming up!   Thats all the incentive the players should need.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

Three great matches coming up!   Thats all the incentive the players should need.






[/quote]

 

Well that''s the way you (and indeed I ) look at it LDC, but the question is, do the players share that excitement ?  You seem pretty confident that they do. I''m less so, as you know.

 

But, if your theory is correct, then you are indeed right in saying that, in playing L''pool , both teams are singing from the same hymn sheet...ie that of having nothing to play for. In fact, Liverpool players may well be trying to avoid yellow cards and injuries that would jeapordise their FACup final places. So, if we get another "no show" from the Norwich players on Saturday evening will you then admit that there may well be something in it when some of us feel that several of our players'' attitudes have slipped into deckchair mode?

[norfolkbroadslim 225]

This is all well and good, "Blackburn had more incentive", so how do you explain Swansea''s easy victory over Blackburn?  Swansea like us all but safe and Blackburn in dire needs for the points?[:^)]

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Three great matches coming up!   Thats all the incentive the players should need.

[/quote]

 

Well that''s the way you (and indeed I ) look at it LDC, but the question is, do the players share that excitement ?  You seem pretty confident that they do. I''m less so, as you know.

 

But, if your theory is correct, then you are indeed right in saying that, in playing L''pool , both teams are singing from the same hymn sheet...ie that of having nothing to play for. In fact, Liverpool players may well be trying to avoid yellow cards and injuries that would jeapordise their FACup final places. So, if we get another "no show" from the Norwich players on Saturday evening will you then admit that there may well be something in it when some of us feel that several of our players'' attitudes have slipped into deckchair mode?

[/quote]

I''m confident Eric.   PL will have noted any lapse attitudes from Saturday and  I''m certainly thinking there will be a positive reaction.  If we perform to the same level for the whole match as we did against MC for the first hour and for the first half against Blackburn - no problem.   I''m not saying we''ll win, but the performance will be there.   The Spurs game was less than two weeks ago.  Mental tiredness may have become a small factor, but have we suddenly become a different team in two weeks?  I don''t think so.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

Three great matches coming up!   Thats all the incentive the players should need.


[/quote]

 

Well that''s the way you (and indeed I ) look at it LDC, but the question is, do the players share that excitement ?  You seem pretty confident that they do. I''m less so, as you know.

 

But, if your theory is correct, then you are indeed right in saying that, in playing L''pool , both teams are singing from the same hymn sheet...ie that of having nothing to play for. In fact, Liverpool players may well be trying to avoid yellow cards and injuries that would jeapordise their FACup final places. So, if we get another "no show" from the Norwich players on Saturday evening will you then admit that there may well be something in it when some of us feel that several of our players'' attitudes have slipped into deckchair mode?

[/quote]



I''m confident Eric.   PL will have noted any lapse attitudes from Saturday and  I''m certainly thinking there will be a positive reaction.  If we perform to the same level for the whole match as we did against MC for the first hour and for the first half against Blackburn - no problem.   I''m not saying we''ll win, but the performance will be there.   The Spurs game was less than two weeks ago.  Mental tiredness may have become a small factor, but have we suddenly become a different team in two weeks?  I don''t think so.




[/quote]

 

All very interesting, LDC. And, time will tell. I''m glad to say, that thanks to the cheapo Ryanair fares, I''ll be there at Carrow Rd for this one, so I''ll be able to see for myself, first-hand, so to speak.

 

But  I notice, maybe tellingly, you manage to side step and avoid the final question I put to you in my previous post.......

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

Three great matches coming up!   Thats all the incentive the players should need.


[/quote]

Well that''s the way you (and indeed I ) look at it LDC, but the question is, do the players share that excitement ?  You seem pretty confident that they do. I''m less so, as you know.But, if your theory is correct, then you are indeed right in saying that, in playing L''pool , both teams are singing from the same hymn sheet...ie that of having nothing to play for. In fact, Liverpool players may well be trying to avoid yellow cards and injuries that would jeapordise their FACup final places. So, if we get another "no show" from the Norwich players on Saturday evening will you then admit that there may well be something in it when some of us feel that several of our players'' attitudes have slipped into deckchair mode?

[/quote]


I''m confident Eric.   PL will have noted any lapse attitudes from Saturday and  I''m certainly thinking there will be a positive reaction.  If we perform to the same level for the whole match as we did against MC for the first hour and for the first half against Blackburn - no problem.   I''m not saying we''ll win, but the performance will be there.   The Spurs game was less than two weeks ago.  Mental tiredness may have become a small factor, but have we suddenly become a different team in two weeks?  I don''t think so.


[/quote]

 

All very interesting, LDC. And, time will tell. I''m glad to say, that thanks to the cheapo Ryanair fares, I''ll be there at Carrow Rd for this one, so I''ll be able to see for myself, first-hand, so to speak.

But  I notice, maybe tellingly, you manage to side step and avoid the final question I put to you in my previous post.......

[/quote]

 

You mean about deckchairs?   My comment about mental tiredness was my answer about that.   I can agree that there will be more difficulty to sustain the intensity of the effort that the players have had to put in this season, now that it is all but over, but to talk about deckchairs is to suggest the players choose to let it happen.   They will not consciously be thinking that its all over and they will think they are trying just as hard as they were before.   It is just that extra bit of intensity will be missing.  No holiday, just a bit of involuntary mental tiredness.    Everyone says they have put in a supreme effort to keep us in the league with weeks to spare - can''t we forgive a little mental tiredness - if it happens?    

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

"several of our players'' attitudes have slipped into deckchair mode?"Just another cliche that can be trotted out when it suitsWhy did this not apply to the Man City game when supposedly we were safe ? Why was this cliche not trotted out after other games where we had a ''no show'' ? Even the paupers were bleating this out after being stuffed at home by Millwall, who curiously were in roughly the same league spot but played well. Why not deckchair time for them ?What''s the cliched explanation for top of the table Man Utd slipping up against possible deckchair time Everton ?....... something far easier than a reasoned look at the game I should imagine

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="lake district canary"]In sport, there is a fine line in winning and losing.[/quote]Yes.  Unless it''s Norwich City v Manchester City.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="City1st"]"several of our players'' attitudes have slipped into deckchair mode?"

Just another cliche that can be trotted out when it suits

Why did this not apply to the Man City game when supposedly we were safe ? Why was this cliche not trotted out after other games where we had a ''no show'' ? Even the paupers were bleating this out after being stuffed at home by Millwall, who curiously were in roughly the same league spot but played well. Why not deckchair time for them ?

What''s the cliched explanation for top of the table Man Utd slipping up against possible deckchair time Everton ?

....... something far easier than a reasoned look at the game I should imagine
[/quote]

 

Maybe the case for ITFC, C1st. I do not really care. Not terribly interested in them.

 

You talk about clichés .You talk about "the game". Quite patently you have not really been following this debate from the start . The point that a few of us are making is that this slump has been going on for eleven (not one) games now.

 

Fair enough then. I''m the sort of person who can answer a question head on in plain language (unlike LDC and the other apologists). If we turn up against Liverpool (who have every excuse to be in deckchair mode) , and give them a right good turning over, then I''ll hold my hands up and say maybe it''s all been a great big misunderstanding, and there''s no mental tiredness (or whatever the cliché for that is).  We shall see.......

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="City1st"]

What''s the cliched explanation for top of the table Man Utd slipping up against possible deckchair time Everton ?[/quote]

At the end of the day, it was a potential banana skin waiting to happen.  Everton, with nothing to play for, rocked up at the home of the Champions Elect and fought like tigers as Man Utd got complacent after racing to a 4-2 lead.  Everton clearly raised their game at the Theatre of Dreams to make Sunday afternoon the stuff of nightmares for Sir Alex''s careless troops.

[R Mellie 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]surely their weekly wage is incentive enough?

i''d rub chilli powder on my B****ks for £15 grand a week!
[/quote]

 

I just have......but have just also realised no-one has offered me £15k a week to do so......b*gger......what a waste of chilli powder...