nutty nigel 7,902 Posted October 26, 2011 [quote user="PurpleCanary"] What follows is as nerdy is you can get - and long - and won''t interest everyone. But finance is at the bottom of football. For those who are interested, to simplify matters I have lighted upon three abbreviations ; OR for the Old Regime, NR1 for the first year of the revamped board, in League One, and NR2 for this last year, in the Championship, to which these accounts apply.However it would be a mistake to read too much into this apparent regime change. In day to day and week to week matters, relevant. Less so for the long-term big picture stuff. If you are two experienced business people - as Smith and Jones are - and you own a multi-million pound company, and you sit on the board, then you run it. And there is a move in prospect that points that up.The company rule about directors having to retire at 70 is being scrapped. Assuming it gets passed at the AGM. Presumably this is because Delia has hit that age and otherwise would have to step down at this AGM. On the same subject, Foulger''s purchase of £2m worth of shares takes his holding to 98,200, and to 15.9 per cent of the total, while reducing Smith and Jones''s to 53.1 per cent. But if you add them together they come to 69 per cent of the increased share capital, whereas before this triumvirate owned 64.5 per cent. Not a vast difference, but if Foulger - as has always seemed the case - is generally a Smith and Jones loyalist then his share purchase buttresses their position rather than undermining it. Fry''s elevation to the board can sensibly be seen to an extent in that light as well. Smith and Jones may not order the paper clips, but the company still runs the way they want it to run.One other AGM motion is to change our accountants, from Grant Thornton to BDO. Both national companies. Both with branches in Norwich. No explanation for this in the bumpf.Moving on to the accounts, two small signs of financial stringency. Firstly, charitable donations. In 2009 (OR) the club gave £5,000 to Football in the Community. That fell to £2,000 last year (NR1) and has stayed at £2,000 (NR2). Secondly, payments to suppliers. The club gives a ratio figure for paying trade creditors. This has risen from 22 days (OR) to 64 days (NR1) to now 78 days (NR2).As has been reported the club made a post-tax loss of £3.9m, compared with £5.7m the year before, with turnover sharply up from £16.7m to £23m. A similar rise in operating expenses. A different - higher - division, of course, which plainly has affected many of the reported figures. For example, the player wage costs as a percentage of turnover, which the club has as a key indicator, rose from 40 per cent to 47 per cent. And our figures will continue to be difficult to compare, given that the next set of accounts will be Premier League-based. It would help we nerds if the club could stay put in one division for more than one season. The club, with some reason, has trumpeted the operating profit (before exceptionals) of £1.7m, against a previous loss of £1.4m. The problem, if it is a problem, is that there are always exceptionals. As there were the year before. Whether it is, as in this case promotion bonuses, or paying off a failed manager. The likelihood is that if we stay up there will be more exceptionals. It is an exceptional year when they aren''t any.While on wages, and performance bonuses and the like, McNally''s total package (including benefits and bonuses) has risen an eye-watering £657,000, to £871,000. Not quite what it seems . That includes Premier League promotion and other bonuses totalling £582,000.Meanwhile the number of non-football employees has continued to drop. The old regime had already started to cut numbers slightly, and then there was a significant post-relegation fall from 131 to 112. But even back in the Championship there has been another cut, to 102. That numbers have continued to fall despite that promotion back is perhaps slighty surprising. It makes a three-year drop in staff numbers of 23.8 per cent.---Don''t miss the exciting part two - debt and how much we still owe![/quote] [quote user="PurpleCanary"] DEBT AND WHERE WE STANDIn terms of debt, this time last year we had three basic types, totalling a (net) £20.9m.1) Money owed to current and former directors. Not interest-bearing.2 Money potentially payable to holders of B shares.3) Bank (Bank of Scotland) and loan note (Axa) debt. Both interest-bearing, so we pay off interest and the capital sum.That net debt has been reduced to £16.77m. So what do we have left?What we owe Smith and Jones (£2.1m) and Foulger (£1.4m) is unchanged. Whether either or both will ever actually want some or all of their money back while they are still owners/directors is a question to which only they know the answer. If they do, the relevant time at which they can ask for it back is October 2013. The £2.5m owed to the Turners has supposedly been paid back. Promotion to the Premier League meant they could call in it, and they done so. So this section of debt has fallen from £6m to £3.5m.As for the B shareholders, they can claim their money - totalling £1.5m - from January 2012, again because of reaching the Premier League. How many will is the mootest of points, but the club has to assume all will. So that has to stay at £1.5m.As to the bank and loan debt, that was rescheduled after we broke our covenants, with what we owed to BoS - capital being now just above £1m - being repayable by October 31, 2013. And with what we owed Axa - in capital terms currently £11.2m - being repayable by May 2022.However, unless I have misread the latest accounts (Ii would be glad if posters with access to them can check) there obviously was also a promotion clause in the Axa rescheduling. Because the club is now saying we have to pay all that £11.2m plus interest back by May 2013 if we are in the PL in the 2012/13 season. In other words, if we stay up this year.If we get relegated, we have until May 2016. Either way, getting to the PL seems to have scuppered the 2022 date. This certainly explains why Bowkett and McNally a few days ago were talking about reducing debt by £6m in this current financial year. Not much choice if they have to wipe all the loan and bank debt before the end of 2013, plus whatever Smith and Jones and Foulger and the B shareholders might want. If you add in some other debt I haven''t bothered with, you get to a figure not far short of £20m. And that is just the capital. The interest, for example, on the loan notes is above 7 per cent.In summary, of course promotion to the PL is financially A Good Thing. But as Fellas, pointed out, and as I indicated earlier, the costs also increase dramatically. This needs to be remembered amidst all the euphoria. And with us, specifically, we apparently now will have to clear our debt very shortly, while contemplating spending £20m (which might be a conservative estimate) on the ground. We still need to be careful out there, as they used to say in Hill Street Blues.[/quote] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ca 1 Posted October 26, 2011 Sorry Nutty, I cant resist it, who''s Beth? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted October 26, 2011 A mighty fine poster called Bethnal Yellow and Green. I was doing him a kindness out of respect and also cuz he probably uses the Blind Beggar and may have some dodgy mates[B][;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,381 Posted October 26, 2011 [quote user="cityangel"]Sorry Nutty, I cant resist it, who''s Beth?[/quote] For what it''s worth, angel, I have not the faintest idea either...[8-)][*-)][8-)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,381 Posted October 26, 2011 [quote user="nutty nigel"]A mighty fine poster called Bethnal Yellow and Green. I was doing him a kindness out of respect and also cuz he probably uses the Blind Beggar and may have some dodgy mates[B][;)] [/quote] Has the Blind Beggar not gone upmarket then since Ronnie Kray murdered George Cornell there?![;)][:D][:O] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted October 26, 2011 [quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="nutty nigel"] A mighty fine poster called Bethnal Yellow and Green. I was doing him a kindness out of respect and also cuz he probably uses the Blind Beggar and may have some dodgy mates[B][;)] [/quote] Has the Blind Beggar not gone upmarket then since Ronnie Kray murdered George Cornell there?![;)][:D][:O][/quote]A leopard never changes it''s spots Purple so I remain wary[^o)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424 Posted October 26, 2011 [quote user="nutty nigel"]A mighty fine poster called Bethnal Yellow and Green. I was doing him a kindness out of respect and also cuz he probably uses the Blind Beggar and may have some dodgy mates[B][;)][/quote]Cheers Nigel. I don''t drink in the Blind Beggar I''m afraid, but as mentioned it has gone a little trendy. I do drink in The Carpenter''s Arms and Royal Oak - both known for their connections with ''dodgy'' types (both of these have also gone very trendy now also). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted October 26, 2011 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="nutty nigel"] A mighty fine poster called Bethnal Yellow and Green. I was doing him a kindness out of respect and also cuz he probably uses the Blind Beggar and may have some dodgy mates[B][;)][/quote]Has the Blind Beggar not gone upmarket then since Ronnie Kray murdered George Cornell there?![;)][:D][:O][/quote]A leopard never changes it''s spots Purple so I remain wary[^o)][/quote] But wiv John Terry at your shoulder you shouldn''t have no probs should you? OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted October 26, 2011 Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted October 26, 2011 [quote user="nutty nigel"]Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... [/quote] Them? Hmmm.........I wonder. But it''s you Nurse Ratched is really looking for you y''know, ever since you flew that nest the other day. Then again maybe she''s scared of your good ole boy JT and his views........... OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted October 27, 2011 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... [/quote] Them? Hmmm.........I wonder. But it''s you Nurse Ratched is really looking for you y''know, ever since you flew that nest the other day. Then again maybe she''s scared of your good ole boy JT and his views........... OTBC[/quote]What is your obsession with me and John Terry? Are you trying, in an obscure way, to make out I''m racist? Or have you finally gone completely gaga? Maybe we should have a vote. My guess is option B. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 5,246 Posted October 27, 2011 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... [/quote] Them? Hmmm.........I wonder. But it''s you Nurse Ratched is really looking for you y''know, ever since you flew that nest the other day. Then again maybe she''s scared of your good ole boy JT and his views........... OTBC[/quote]What is your obsession with me and John Terry? Are you trying, in an obscure way, to make out I''m racist? Or have you finally gone completely gaga? Maybe we should have a vote. My guess is option B. [/quote]Can i have a poxy vote?[:P] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted October 27, 2011 [quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... [/quote] Them? Hmmm.........I wonder. But it''s you Nurse Ratched is really looking for you y''know, ever since you flew that nest the other day. Then again maybe she''s scared of your good ole boy JT and his views........... OTBC[/quote]What is your obsession with me and John Terry? Are you trying, in an obscure way, to make out I''m racist? Or have you finally gone completely gaga? Maybe we should have a vote. My guess is option B. [/quote]Can i have a poxy vote?[:P][/quote]Only if you''ve got the poxy forms I''m afraid [E] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted October 27, 2011 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... [/quote] Them? Hmmm.........I wonder. But it''s you Nurse Ratched is really looking for you y''know, ever since you flew that nest the other day. Then again maybe she''s scared of your good ole boy JT and his views........... OTBC[/quote]What is your obsession with me and John Terry? Are you trying, in an obscure way, to make out I''m racist? Or have you finally gone completely gaga? Maybe we should have a vote. My guess is option B. [/quote]Can i have a poxy vote?[:P][/quote]Only if you''ve got the poxy forms I''m afraid [E][/quote]Tangy''s got a form288b, will that do? [:D] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkbroadslim 225 Posted October 28, 2011 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... [/quote] Them? Hmmm.........I wonder. But it''s you Nurse Ratched is really looking for you y''know, ever since you flew that nest the other day. Then again maybe she''s scared of your good ole boy JT and his views........... OTBC[/quote]What is your obsession with me and John Terry? Are you trying, in an obscure way, to make out I''m racist? Or have you finally gone completely gaga? Maybe we should have a vote. My guess is option B. [/quote] How very bizzare. A sensible , informative and helpful thread gets absolutely hijacked by some crazy blokes vendetta of riddles. Going off the quote above, I''d say option A, but I''d also like to throw option C into the mix - JT''s womanising and doing the dirty on his best mate. It could be a combination of option A and option C. I''m guessing BBB won''t elaborate though and that this thread will be pulled. Nutty, I spose you can say you have a fan club or is it a stalker?[:^)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted October 28, 2011 [quote user="norfolkbroadslim"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... [/quote] Them? Hmmm.........I wonder. But it''s you Nurse Ratched is really looking for you y''know, ever since you flew that nest the other day. Then again maybe she''s scared of your good ole boy JT and his views........... OTBC[/quote]What is your obsession with me and John Terry? Are you trying, in an obscure way, to make out I''m racist? Or have you finally gone completely gaga? Maybe we should have a vote. My guess is option B. [/quote] How very bizzare. A sensible , informative and helpful thread gets absolutely hijacked by some crazy blokes vendetta of riddles. Going off the quote above, I''d say option A, but I''d also like to throw option C into the mix - JT''s womanising and doing the dirty on his best mate. It could be a combination of option A and option C. I''m guessing BBB won''t elaborate though and that this thread will be pulled. [/quote] Testing, testing............ [C] OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted October 28, 2011 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... [/quote] Them? Hmmm.........I wonder. But it''s you Nurse Ratched is really looking for you y''know, ever since you flew that nest the other day. Then again maybe she''s scared of your good ole boy JT and his views........... OTBC[/quote]What is your obsession with me and John Terry? Are you trying, in an obscure way, to make out I''m racist? Or have you finally gone completely gaga? Maybe we should have a vote. My guess is option B. [/quote] I''m completely gaga. OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkbroadslim 225 Posted October 28, 2011 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Well, I tried Beth but you just can''t keep them away! I wonder if Pete could recruit Nurse Ratched to help.... [/quote] Them? Hmmm.........I wonder. But it''s you Nurse Ratched is really looking for you y''know, ever since you flew that nest the other day. Then again maybe she''s scared of your good ole boy JT and his views........... OTBC[/quote]What is your obsession with me and John Terry? Are you trying, in an obscure way, to make out I''m racist? Or have you finally gone completely gaga? Maybe we should have a vote. My guess is option B. [/quote] I''m completely gaga. OTBC[/quote] You''ve missed out the "Lady" from your post above BBB[;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 5,246 Posted October 28, 2011 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"] I''m completely gaga. OTBC[/quote]3 days short of 8 years and after 7,758 posts the penny has finally dropped.[;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
