Four games in, it appears that some people are already fed up with the premiership, why?

[Indy 3,309]

Having watched the game on the TV after Carrow Raod, I wonder why no one has mentioned the earlier penalty we never got, Chris Martin was hauled down trying to get to the ball and there was far more contact than the soft penalty awarded to WBA.

It does stink looking back on the game, the second half we played some very good football with no end product, but each game we have played in has been the same pattern and I wonder if this season is going to be the frustrating one for us.

Little mistakes by defender punished, three out of the four penalties awarded were the softest you could ever want to see, pretty football with no end product and two of the three goals we have scored have come from keeping mistakes.

We can hold our own against most teams in this division but that little bit of quality and experience that the likes of Everton, Blackburn, Fulham, WBA, will probably cost us in the end.

Having said all that I cannot believe some people question this season and the premiership. I’m loving it, the atmosphere at both home games has been good, our team looks good and it’s giving us a platform both financially and strength of quality in our squad. The premiership was always about survival and this ride is going to be a bumpy one, lets enjoy it even if it is for the one season this time round.

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

I still don''t think we are going to go down, it is the own players faults that these goals has been scored.

Once these mistakes stop happening we will win games, starting with Bolton and then Sunderland :).

I went to the actual game itself and the Norwich and peterborough stand was a good view but at least the end I was in had a good atmosphere lol.

Was very frustrating to see the referee being incompetent, honestly thought people were going to jump on the pitch lol or at least that was the feeling I had down this end lol.

The goal shouldn''t even have happened. Was a total school boy error, I think we started to show how dangerous we were once hoolahan and Vaughan came on.

Just got to keep the faith in the players and Lambert and we ARE staying up.

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

Early days and bad luck ! Keep the faith :)

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

I sense a very negative feeling fairly early on and to some extent share it myself. I think this is down to a combination of reasons and non of it is a moan as i believe we have the best manager since O Neil and he has been backed by the Board,

To some extent we have been victims of our own success during the last 2 seasons both in respect of what we have been used to and what we hoped/expected from this squad.

It is right to say that in many ways we have played reasonably well games, that is the worry. I think the squad is giving it all it has but in defence and up front at the moment at least we look well off the pace. That is an unexpected disappointment to many

yes a couple of wins could transform the whole atmoshere and we could kick on from that. The reverse is also true if we only have half a dozen points from 10 games it becomes a mamoth task to catch up,

We are at a tipping point. The current squad will either improve 10% to turn draws into wins or we could be tail end charlies for the whole season which would be depressing. There does not appear to be an obvious ashton type buy out there to transform our season post January. Of course Lambert has the ability and track record topull a rabbit out of the hat but we must rememberthat he is still learning at this level and as De laet has founf you can do most things right but are punished for a very small mistake

[exiled blue 0]

"To some extent we have been victims of our own success during the last 2 seasons both in respect of what we have been used to and what we hoped/expected from this squad."

very much this. some of the predictions i read on here with regards to the coming season were way wide of the mark. some on here were talking about europa league placings, and grant holt being a potential golden boot winner. the jump to this division was always going to be the hardest, as many, many teams have discovered to their cost before now.

not for nothing are the three promoted sides nearly always the favourites at the bookies to drop straight back down.

[crabbycanary 2]

Some very good points on here.

Because we are (likely) to be closer to the bottom than the top, then every little mistake could be the ''costly one'' come the end of the season. Of course if we avoid relegation by a few points then all will be forgotten, but we cannot see into the future, so everything that happens now seems extremely vital, and it causes great debate as we have seen already after only 4 games!

btw, how do you post one of the icons attached to the text on here, as opposed to the title please?

[morty 0]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Some very good points on here.

Because we are (likely) to be closer to the bottom than the top, then every little mistake could be the ''costly one'' come the end of the season. Of course if we avoid relegation by a few points then all will be forgotten, but we cannot see into the future, so everything that happens now seems extremely vital, and it causes great debate as we have seen already after only 4 games!

btw, how do you post one of the icons attached to the text on here, as opposed to the title please?[/quote]The icons at the bottom of your text block have never worked. You need to select one from the pull down at the top, near the text options "Insert smiley" and if you''re not sure which on is which hit "preview" before you post.[:)]

[ROBFLECK 132]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]I sense a very negative feeling fairly early on and to some extent share it myself. I think this is down to a combination of reasons and non of it is a moan as i believe we have the best manager since O Neil and he has been backed by the Board, To some extent we have been victims of our own success during the last 2 seasons both in respect of what we have been used to and what we hoped/expected from this squad. It is right to say that in many ways we have played reasonably well games, that is the worry. I think the squad is giving it all it has but in defence and up front at the moment at least we look well off the pace. That is an unexpected disappointment to many yes a couple of wins could transform the whole atmoshere and we could kick on from that. The reverse is also true if we only have half a dozen points from 10 games it becomes a mamoth task to catch up, We are at a tipping point. The current squad will either improve 10% to turn draws into wins or we could be tail end charlies for the whole season which would be depressing. There does not appear to be an obvious ashton type buy out there to transform our season post January. Of course Lambert has the ability and track record topull a rabbit out of the hat but we must rememberthat he is still learning at this level and as De laet has founf you can do most things right but are punished for a very small mistake[/quote]Agree with you Yorkshire, our central defense is giving things away too easily and we''re not taking our chances... I love PL and I think he''s done a massive job! I really think we need a great result somehow to get us going, but I can''t see where it''s gonna come from at  the moment. Personally I would give someone else a go up front (Jackson!). The only thing I was very happy about, was Rudd who played well. At the moment I''m just trying to accept that it''s gonna be a long hard struggle for us this season...

[crabbycanary 2]

Cheers Morty, but I am being a real numbnuts here! I can''t seem to find a pull down or ''text options'' option!

[exiled blue 0]

", so everything that happens now seems extremely vital, "

given that your last 6 games contain matches against tottenham, city, liverpool, villa and arsenal, you`re probably going to need to be a good few points, maybe 6 or 9, clear of the relegation places by that stage. so with that in mind, id say these last 4 games HAVE been vital. i don`t know what the `run-ins` of other likely relegation candidates is like, but if they are as tough as yours looks...

[......and Smith must score. 1,351]

[quote user="exiled blue"]"To some extent we have been victims of our own success during the last 2 seasons both in respect of what we have been used to and what we hoped/expected from this squad." very much this. some of the predictions i read on here with regards to the coming season were way wide of the mark. some on here were talking about europa league placings, and grant holt being a potential golden boot winner. the jump to this division was always going to be the hardest, as many, many teams have discovered to their cost before now.

not for nothing are the three promoted sides nearly always the favourites at the bookies to drop straight back down.[/quote]Have to agree with this, exiled blue.Your team - Man City - were the last before us to achieve '' back-to-back '' promotions and managed to stay up but it''s a very big ask. I don''t know how Joe Royle set about recruiting players for his survival strategy but I suspect he went for a few more wise heads than Paul Lambert has done here. Whichever way you go it''s a risky business. Do you splash all your cash straightaway on experienced players who expect big pay packets and risk putting the club into serious debt if it all goes wrong or do you go for the cheaper inexperienced option with a decent cash reserve as back up ? There isn''t a right answer to that one.I do know that we''ve got a very good manager who''ll give it his best shot. If that''s not enough then at least we''ll be comforted by the obscene amount of money we''ll get over the next five years from Mr Murdoch which should hold us in good stead for some time to come.

[......and Smith must score. 1,351]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Cheers Morty, but I am being a real numbnuts here! I can''t seem to find a pull down or ''text options'' option![/quote]Don''t worry crabby, you''re not the only numbnuts around here.I''ve never been able to find out how you get those little yellow icons to appear at the end of your message rather than in the title !!

[morty 0]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Cheers Morty, but I am being a real numbnuts here! I can''t seem to find a pull down or ''text options'' option![/quote][IMG]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/mortymccarthy/Untitled-1.jpg[/IMG]

[exiled blue 0]

must be a browser thing. my `reply` page looks nothing like that and doesn`t have those boxes!.

[morty 0]

[quote user="exiled blue"]must be a browser thing. my `reply` page looks nothing like that and doesn`t have those boxes!.[/quote]Oh right.I use Firefox, because its the only browser that appears to work properly here.

[exiled blue 0]

ie or chrome for me.

another thing about the prem which may dishearten so many. in the championship, lambert could prepare his side pre-game knowing that all things considered, you were at least a match for, and in many cases, clearly better than the side you were about to face. in the prem , there are times, when you just have to hold your hands up and admit even before kick-off, that you are facing a much better/stronger team. and there`s nothing you can do about it. players who have for the most part, plied their trade in the lower divisions are going to be slightly in awe of some of the players they are up against, it`s natural. i`d be the same.

[......and Smith must score. 1,351]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="exiled blue"]must be a browser thing. my `reply` page looks nothing like that and doesn`t have those boxes!.[/quote]Oh right.I use Firefox, because its the only browser that appears to work properly here.[/quote]Thanks for that Morty.I''ve got Firefox on here and tried your way which brings down a list of words but when I look at the Preview of the post it just shows a letter, ie, D for big smileBack to the tablet of stone for me then......

[morty 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="morty"][quote user="exiled blue"]must be a browser thing. my `reply` page looks nothing like that and doesn`t have those boxes!.[/quote]Oh right.I use Firefox, because its the only browser that appears to work properly here.[/quote]Thanks for that Morty.I''ve got Firefox on here and tried your way which brings down a list of words but when I look at the Preview of the post it just shows a letter, ie, D for big smileBack to the tablet of stone for me then......[/quote]Yeah, I think thats right, give it a try lol.We''ll bring you into the 20th century yet.[;)]

[Power Hamster 0]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Some very good points on here.

Because we are (likely) to be closer to the bottom than the top, then every little mistake could be the ''costly one'' come the end of the season. Of course if we avoid relegation by a few points then all will be forgotten, but we cannot see into the future, so everything that happens now seems extremely vital, and it causes great debate as we have seen already after only 4 games!

btw, how do you post one of the icons attached to the text on here, as opposed to the title please?[/quote]Yes, a good point about small  differences adding up over the course of a season. There is no great gulf in class between the Premier League and the Championship, and the difference between relegation and mid-table is often no more than a couple of percentage points difference in the rate of conversion of chances, and another couple of percentage points difference in the number of defensive errors. We could afford to be wasteful of scoring chances in the Championship because we created so many, and if you miss one, another will come along soon. You can''t do that in the Premier League, and the promoted teams who survive are the ones who can up their game by just that few percent. We are still creating scoring chances, which is good news, but we just need to convert a few more of them.The same goes for defensive errors - we got by in the Championship, but the Premier League is not so forgiving. Swansea found this out on Saturday, and we did on Sunday. No great difference in class, just half a dozen of those stupid defensive mistakes over the course of a season can translate to 5 or 6 league places. It''s such a fine dividing line between success and failure, but it''s one that newly promoted sides continually fall just short of.This is going to be PL''s biggest challenge. It''s not going to be hunger or desire to win or fire in the belly that keeps us in the Premier League. It''s going to be the ability to concentrate for 95 or 96 minutes and to cut out the silly mistakes.[:)]

[......and Smith must score. 1,351]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="morty"][quote user="exiled blue"]must be a browser thing. my `reply` page looks nothing like that and doesn`t have those boxes!.[/quote]Oh right.I use Firefox, because its the only browser that appears to work properly here.[/quote]Thanks for that Morty.I''ve got Firefox on here and tried your way which brings down a list of words but when I look at the Preview of the post it just shows a letter, ie, D for big smileBack to the tablet of stone for me then......[/quote]Yeah, I think thats right, give it a try lol.We''ll bring you into the 20th century yet.[;)][/quote]Yes, one small step at a time.......I think the 21st century might be a bridge too far [:D]( I wonder if it''s worked ? )

[......and Smith must score. 1,351]

Bl**dy hell....it has !!

[morty 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]Bl**dy hell....it has !![/quote]Ha!![:D]

[exiled blue 0]

"There is no great gulf in class between the Premier League and the Championship,"

i couldn`t disagree more tbh!!.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Early days and bad luck ! Keep the faith :)
[/quote]

Agreed, and I''m loving it being able to see every game streamed. I''m sure we will turn the corner as referees wise-up to the fact that they are giving us an extremely raw deal.

[Power Hamster 0]

[quote user="exiled blue"]"There is no great gulf in class between the Premier League and the Championship,"

i couldn`t disagree more tbh!!.[/quote]Could you expand on that a bit more please? For example, show how there was a great gulf in class between a Norwich side with very little Prem experience, and a Stoke side established in the Premier League?

[exiled blue 0]

well, to say that there isn`t a gulf in class, over a whole division is, imho, wrong. there are teams in there like the one you mention stoke, who are not regarded particularly as classy. but stoke are very much a`style` on their own, no need to discuss delap etc.

but to say that sides such as the two manchester clubs , chelsea, spurs, liverpool etc etc are not a step up from the championship...

i think i get the point you are making, equating class with ability, but to pick up on teams at the lower end of the league (not stoke in this instance!) is fine as long as the teams at the other end are included.

[crabbycanary 2]

Morty - thanks for your advice, it looks like I will have to update my home computer (where I was this morning) but it looks like my Laptop (at work, where I am now, has this facility) here goes........[:D]

[crabbycanary 2]

[Y]

[morty 0]

[quote user="crabbycanary"][Y][/quote]Ha![:D]

[Power Hamster 0]

[quote user="exiled blue"]well, to say that there isn`t a gulf in class, over a whole division is, imho, wrong. there are teams in there like the one you mention stoke, who are not regarded particularly as classy. but stoke are very much a`style` on their own, no need to discuss delap etc.

but to say that sides such as the two manchester clubs , chelsea, spurs, liverpool etc etc are not a step up from the championship...

i think i get the point you are making, equating class with ability, but to pick up on teams at the lower end of the league (not stoke in this instance!) is fine as long as the teams at the other end are included.[/quote]Well yes, your argument seems to be that there is a gulf in class WITHIN the Premier League, i.e. between top and bottom, an argument which I am inclined to agree with. But the point I was making was about the gap BETWEEN the two leagues, in other words from the top of one, to the middle/bottom of the other.On the evidence of the matches played so far, not such a great gap. See my original argument about percentages, and fine lines between success and failure.