NCISA AGM

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]I have raised the issue of proxy votes at a committee meeting and presumably the other committee members (with the exception of the Chairman who joined the committee at a later date) as they live in Norwich or not far away didn''t see it as an issue for them. However it is relevant if the organisation is to live up to its mission statement.

Furthermore if the organisation is to be democratic and transparent then they should display on their website notes about the committtee meetings, something they started to do and then suddenly stopped (and had not restarted when I last looked). This something that you use to discuss with me in the Nelson after games, remember?

 

[/quote]If these issues are so important to you Tangy, why did you ever leave the committee before your mission was fulfilled?

(and did you fill in form 288b when you stood down from your post?) [^o)]

[Leedscanary 340]

[quote user="jayncfc"]I know very little of NCISA, would like to know more to see if it is something I would enjoy. [/quote]Jay - you and any other NCFC fans are welcome to join NCISA members and committee members at their annual Barbeque this Friday evening at The Bayer Club, Marlpit Road, Norwich. Its the perfect time to find out more! Hopefully we''ll see Tangiable Fixed Assets there too for a chat and a pint.

[Desert Fox 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Herman "]I wonder why Beau doesn''t post that often anymore?[/quote]

 

Get that tongue out of your cheek Herman![;)]

I have no problem with the question about proxy votes. I looked into it and established that our constituion does not allow proxy votes.It''s probably worth pointing out that our understanding is that neither does FONCY, the Supporters Trust or the Shareholders Association. I''m not quite sure how answering an honest question honestly brings into question our openess and transparency, but I''ll leave that to the neutrals to decide. I have no problem whatsoever with such a provision being proposed and accepted going forward. I presume that when Crafty and Tangie''s father''s organisation (the old Supporters Club) drafted their constitution (on which ours in based) absentee voters were less of an issue with support being more parochial. Clearly its an issue to address.

On a wider front, the sooner that the initials NCISA cease to exist, the better, as far as I''m concerned. As you all know there is a proposal to change the name at the AGM and for all officers and committee to be subject to reelection based on the new mission statement, which has already been quoted above. I can''t do anything about the past, but I can do something about the present and the future. We have a role to play, but it is a radically different one to the old NCISA. The old regime of regular chats with the Chief Executive and being a focus for fan discontent is now a thing of the past. It''s not for us to tell people how to support their club, nor to tell David McNally how to run it. What we can do, however, is to continue our function of raising money for the club, continue to develop discounts and benefits for our members, provide a link and a focus for the various smaller fan groups and organise forums with former players for our members.

We have a new facebook page ( http://www.facebook.com/notifications.php?id=190374581018720#!/pages/Ncisa-Norwich-City-Independent-Supporters-Association/190374581018720 ) and are developing a new website. Membership costs just £5 per annum, for which you get free entry to forums, any discounts we are able to negotiate at hotels, other supporters clubs etc, plus free entry into our monthly draw for match tickets, memorabilia, signed books and so on. In the past the question has been "Why should I join NCISA?". In future, I want it to be "Why wouldn''t I join the Independent Norwich City Supporters Club (the proposed new name) ?".

 

[/quote]

 

Beausant,

I am NCISA member (who unfortunately no longer lives near Norwich) and I had no idea that there is a proposal to change the name at the AGM. Indeed, I am not aware of any of the proposals for the AGM, other than those now set out in this thread. Not all NCISA members will necessarily read the Pink Un and it would have been nice to have recieved an e-mail.

 

Whislt I appreciate that proxy rules have not really been a major issue in the past, if there are going to be major chnages to the organisation rather just normal business, then I do think that those that cant attend a weekday evening meeting in Norwich should have their views heard if they wish. Whilst proxy votes are not allowed, surely the commitee could set up an informal channel to hear soundings from its members?

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Desert Fox"][quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Herman "]I wonder why Beau doesn''t post that often anymore?[/quote]

 

Get that tongue out of your cheek Herman![;)]

I have no problem with the question about proxy votes. I looked into it and established that our constituion does not allow proxy votes.It''s probably worth pointing out that our understanding is that neither does FONCY, the Supporters Trust or the Shareholders Association. I''m not quite sure how answering an honest question honestly brings into question our openess and transparency, but I''ll leave that to the neutrals to decide. I have no problem whatsoever with such a provision being proposed and accepted going forward. I presume that when Crafty and Tangie''s father''s organisation (the old Supporters Club) drafted their constitution (on which ours in based) absentee voters were less of an issue with support being more parochial. Clearly its an issue to address.

On a wider front, the sooner that the initials NCISA cease to exist, the better, as far as I''m concerned. As you all know there is a proposal to change the name at the AGM and for all officers and committee to be subject to reelection based on the new mission statement, which has already been quoted above. I can''t do anything about the past, but I can do something about the present and the future. We have a role to play, but it is a radically different one to the old NCISA. The old regime of regular chats with the Chief Executive and being a focus for fan discontent is now a thing of the past. It''s not for us to tell people how to support their club, nor to tell David McNally how to run it. What we can do, however, is to continue our function of raising money for the club, continue to develop discounts and benefits for our members, provide a link and a focus for the various smaller fan groups and organise forums with former players for our members.

We have a new facebook page ( http://www.facebook.com/notifications.php?id=190374581018720#!/pages/Ncisa-Norwich-City-Independent-Supporters-Association/190374581018720 ) and are developing a new website. Membership costs just £5 per annum, for which you get free entry to forums, any discounts we are able to negotiate at hotels, other supporters clubs etc, plus free entry into our monthly draw for match tickets, memorabilia, signed books and so on. In the past the question has been "Why should I join NCISA?". In future, I want it to be "Why wouldn''t I join the Independent Norwich City Supporters Club (the proposed new name) ?".

 

[/quote]

 

Beausant,

I am NCISA member (who unfortunately no longer lives near Norwich) and I had no idea that there is a proposal to change the name at the AGM. Indeed, I am not aware of any of the proposals for the AGM, other than those now set out in this thread. Not all NCISA members will necessarily read the Pink Un and it would have been nice to have recieved an e-mail.

 

Whislt I appreciate that proxy rules have not really been a major issue in the past, if there are going to be major chnages to the organisation rather just normal business, then I do think that those that cant attend a weekday evening meeting in Norwich should have their views heard if they wish. Whilst proxy votes are not allowed, surely the commitee could set up an informal channel to hear soundings from its members?

[/quote]

 

I probably jumped the gun by mentioning it one here as the AGM notification papers are being prepared at the moment and should be out shortly. Certainly members will have all proposals well ahead of the date of the meeting, as required by the constitution. There is an email address contact@ncisa.co.uk which is there for members, and anyone else to give their opinions or raise queries. I am very keen to hear members views and am happy to elaborate on what is being considered, so please feel free to contact me.

[Leedscanary 340]

Some excellent points raised in your post Desert Fox. I, like yourself, live a distance from Norwich.I agree, that an email sent to every member of NCISA detailing the proposed changes would be very sensible. I will be attending the AGM to cast my vote - if you have any questions you want raising on the night feel free to PM them to me and I will raise them on your behalf. Alternatively, PM Beauseant or email any of the NCISA committee members with any concerns or ideas you may have.Ultimately this is evolving into a supporters club - which can only improve with input from its members.

[Crafty Canary 496]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not sidestepping anything Crafty old boy. They hold their meetings there because they asked me. Just like I entertained you when Tangie asked me. It''s far more rewarding to find reasons to do things you have been asked to do rather than reasons not to do them.

 

You''re a very sad man Crafty.

 

 

[/quote]On the contrary, life is going very well at the moment. Family is going well, career is going well, club is going well, mortgage just paid off. Why, I even enjoy dumping on you on a regular basis.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

[quote user="crafty canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not sidestepping anything Crafty old boy. They hold their meetings there because they asked me. Just like I entertained you when Tangie asked me. It''s far more rewarding to find reasons to do things you have been asked to do rather than reasons not to do them.

 

You''re a very sad man Crafty.

 

 

[/quote]

On the contrary, life is going very well at the moment. Family is going well, career is going well, club is going well, mortgage just paid off. Why, I even enjoy dumping on you on a regular basis.
[/quote]

 

Like I said, a sad man.

 

And still nobody wants your poxy vote.

 

 

[Jakesacanary 0]

can new members join on the night....

[Leedscanary 340]

[quote user="Jakesacanary"]can new members join on the night....[/quote]

I would imagine that new members would be welcome, as they would at the forthcoming BBQ - however you would have no right to vote at this years AGM as per the constitution -

4.1 AGM

4.1.1 An Annual General Meeting (AGM) of members is held in the forty-two
days from September 1st each year and twenty-one days notice (in writing via post or electronic mail) must be given to members; only members whose membership fees are fully paid up and who have been members for at least three months are eligible to
vote at AGMs.

 

[Desert Fox 0]

Beausant/Leeds Canary,

Thanks for your response - I will be in touch once the AGM agenda is published.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="1eed5canary"]

[quote user="Jakesacanary"]can new members join on the night....[/quote]

I would imagine that new members would be welcome, as they would at the forthcoming BBQ - however you would have no right to vote at this years AGM as per the constitution -

4.1 AGM

4.1.1 An Annual General Meeting (AGM) of members is held in the forty-two
days from September 1st each year and twenty-one days notice (in writing via post or electronic mail) must be given to members; only members whose membership fees are fully paid up and who have been members for at least three months are eligible to
vote at AGMs.

 

[/quote]

 

Can''t really add to that, thanks Kev! We would love to have you on board Jake![:D]

DF, sorry about the confusion, and I look forward to your comments in due course.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Calm down Leeds.. it''s not good for the old bp[;)]

 

 

[Duncan Edwards 0]

I suppose if you spend all day hanging around with kids, you''ll end up acting like one.

 

Getting back to the AGM, it looks like there is the potential for some significant changes and I look forward to seeing what they are and how they''re received. Things have to evolve and this organisation is no different, especially if it wants to attract the next generation of fans.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

All''s well that ends well and looks like Crafty is getting his poxy vote afterall. [:|]

 

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

All''s well that ends well and looks like Crafty is getting his poxy vote afterall. [:|]

 

 

[/quote]Don''t worry Crafty.  If you PM me then I will give them your poxy vote for you.I can''t see too many issues of interest being discussed, so you are more than welcome to use my vote.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

All''s well that ends well and looks like Crafty is getting his poxy vote afterall. [:|]

 

 

[/quote]

Don''t worry Crafty.  If you PM me then I will give them your poxy vote for you.

I can''t see too many issues of interest being discussed, so you are more than welcome to use my vote.
[/quote]

Be careful Smudge.. Crafty doesn''t like suggestions about what he can do with his poxy vote[:O]

 

 

[Crafty Canary 496]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

All''s well that ends well and looks like Crafty is getting his poxy vote afterall. [:|]

 

 

[/quote]Don''t worry Crafty.  If you PM me then I will give them your poxy vote for you.I can''t see too many issues of interest being discussed, so you are more than welcome to use my vote.[/quote]That''s all right Smudge, everything is in hand. I''m waiting for the committee nominee list to be published as I''m expecting the Lunatics to try and take over the asylum.

[Duncan Edwards 0]

[quote user="crafty canary"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

All''s well that ends well and looks like Crafty is getting his poxy vote afterall. [:|]

 

 

[/quote]

Don''t worry Crafty.  If you PM me then I will give them your poxy vote for you.

I can''t see too many issues of interest being discussed, so you are more than welcome to use my vote.
[/quote]

That''s all right Smudge, everything is in hand. I''m waiting for the committee nominee list to be published as I''m expecting the Lunatics to try and take over the asylum.
[/quote]

 

You''re standing for office...????

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="crafty canary"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

All''s well that ends well and looks like Crafty is getting his poxy vote afterall. [:|]

 

 

[/quote]Don''t worry Crafty.  If you PM me then I will give them your poxy vote for you.I can''t see too many issues of interest being discussed, so you are more than welcome to use my vote.[/quote]That''s all right Smudge, everything is in hand. I''m waiting for the committee nominee list to be published as I''m expecting the Lunatics to try and take over the asylum. [/quote]Dut to lack of committee members over the years (far away from the maximum number of 15 I believe that it is) I am guessing that anybody who wishes to be on it just puts their name forwards and they should make room for you one way or another?I would be very surprised if there are more than 15 people interested in being on the committee, so I would very much doub''t whether it would ever have to go to any kind of voting process.

[Desert Fox 0]

Smudger,

I think the composition of the committee is likely to less contentious than the intimated change in direction, which rightly ought to be tested with the membership. 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

Smudger,

I think the composition of the committee is likely to less contentious than the intimated change in direction, which rightly ought to be tested with the membership. 

[/quote]Yes it should indeed DF... [Y]All very well offering other things and making NCISA more sociable, but in my opinion NCISA still needs to remain an Independant Supporters Group who can raise the fans concerns to the club when things aren''t going so well in the future.  We will learn nothing about the current Commitee Members ability to raise those concerns on the fans behalf until the club hits troubled waters once again.  Fingers crossed that that day is a long way off, but it will undoubtedly come and when it does you need strong individuals who are prepared to take all the flak that will be thrown in their direction.It is difficult to know how anybody will react in such circumstances until they actually happen.There are some people who would like to see NCISA soley as a Supporters Club, but also many Members and some Committee Members who will agree that it needs to remain as more than that.  I don''t really care what happens either way at the moment,because I don''t think that we will really learn anything either way while the Football Club itself is performing above expectations.Maybe canvassing members opinions on the Under 21 Season Ticket Pricing Fiasco would be something that NCISA could be doing at this moment in time, when there is a lack of controversial news being generated from the Football Club?

[Leedscanary 340]

[quote user="Smudger"]
Maybe canvassing members opinions on the Under 21 Season Ticket Pricing Fiasco would be something that NCISA could be doing at this moment in time, when there is a lack of controversial news being generated from the Football Club?
[/quote]

Is this then, something you have proposed to the Committee? I agree, it is a very good idea to canvass members opinion that could be then forwarded to NCFC as a whole. I believe that a correctly worded statement from a substantial supporters group would hold some regard within the walls of Carrow Road rather than a few emails to Mr McNally from "Joe Bloggs".

However, to canvass members opinion would currently need at least one member of NCISA (not necessarily a committee member) to take the time to draft and distribute an email to all members and then collate the results to present to the committee to draft their statement to the board. Any volunteers?? Its all potentially time consuming and needs dedicated volunteers to make a success. I believe with the way the group appears to be progressing that more members will soon be on board, meaning more potential volunteers for various things that need to be done - and more potential for excellent suggestions likes yours Smudger.

I look forward to meeting up with Robin, and the rest of the committee this weekend as I have lots of suggestions that I, as a member of NCISA, believe will help bring the group forward. How many other NCISA members will be discussing their ideas with the committee? After all, its a club for you - don''t just sit back and let a small, dedicated team of volunteers run it - join in!

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="1eed5canary"]

[quote user="Smudger"]
Maybe canvassing members opinions on the Under 21 Season Ticket Pricing Fiasco would be something that NCISA could be doing at this moment in time, when there is a lack of controversial news being generated from the Football Club?
[/quote]

Is this then, something you have proposed to the Committee? I agree, it is a very good idea to canvass members opinion that could be then forwarded to NCFC as a whole. I believe that a correctly worded statement from a substantial supporters group would hold some regard within the walls of Carrow Road rather than a few emails to Mr McNally from "Joe Bloggs".

However, to canvass members opinion would currently need at least one member of NCISA (not necessarily a committee member) to take the time to draft and distribute an email to all members and then collate the results to present to the committee to draft their statement to the board. Any volunteers?? Its all potentially time consuming and needs dedicated volunteers to make a success. I believe with the way the group appears to be progressing that more members will soon be on board, meaning more potential volunteers for various things that need to be done - and more potential for excellent suggestions likes yours Smudger.

I look forward to meeting up with Robin, and the rest of the committee this weekend as I have lots of suggestions that I, as a member of NCISA, believe will help bring the group forward. How many other NCISA members will be discussing their ideas with the committee? After all, its a club for you - don''t just sit back and let a small, dedicated team of volunteers run it - join in!

[/quote]

 

I think its worth making a couple of points here. To pick up on Smudgers post, the intention is move with the times, but whatever is decided at the AGM we will still be a members organisation, so if our members want an issue raised, it will be incumbent on us as a committee to raise it. However, organisations that don''t recognise a changing environment swiftly become irrelevant and decline, and I genuinely feel that that was becoming the case with NCISA, hence the proposals to the AGM.

As for Kev''s excellent post I would stress that I am fully accessible to members and potential members via email or PM and will gladly elaborate on our thinking or answer any questions that people may have. I will, of course, also be at our joint BBQ with the Pups at the Bayer Club on Friday and look forward to meeting many of your there.

[Desert Fox 0]

Smudger,

A good post. We will experience bad times again, but hopefully not for some time and I believe that supproters should have an independent voice when this happens. If  the menbership fo NCISA dont want this anymore, then I guess there is nothing to stop a new group forming when the need arises.

 

Leeds Canary,

You are right about the workload expected by volunteers on committees, but recent communication from NCISA has been virtually non existant. Surely simply sending out e-mail bulletins occassionally would not be onerous.

Clearly, if there are (perhaps understandably) no volunteers for undertaking a listening exercise from the membership, this raises the importance of the committee making a clear ecomendation about the future direction of travel which is either backed or rejected by the membership through a voting process. Anything in between these options doesnt really do it for me - other than the default of perpetuating the status quo.

[Leedscanary 340]

Spot on Desert Fox, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Which is why I took the decision to offer my skills and ideas to the current committee. What I would hope is that all other members or prospective members take the time to offer their thoughts too. Its no good discussing things on the Pink Un if we''re not going to suggest solutions to the people who can get things organised (ie the committee)

Btw, check your PM [Y] 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Although it''s unwelcome in some ncisa quarters I''m going to put my two penneth in here. This is, afterall a public forum for Norwich fans.

 

I''m watching this with interest because I''d like to join. But Smudge and Des''s points about needing an independent voice when the club hits bad times just leaves me cold. Why do you need it? What has it ever achieved? We had a meeting at St Andrews Hall to prove that most of those who attended wanted Worthy Out. Great! We knew that anyway so why go to the expense of hiring a venue? It was a full year before Worthy was sacked and even then, with hindsight, it''s transpired he wasn''t even the main problem. We had another meeting at the Andrews after relegation what did that achieve? We let off steam but the changes were already in hand. And I don''t remember anybody suggesting we should employ McNally. In fact because Munby and Doncaster were already on their bikes the only target left was Delia. Yet another wrong one!

 

So then you had ncisa members and some committee members deciding they know best. You had Crafty writing blogs on the ncisa site pretending he knew better thyan Delia. In fact Crafty would support an uprising in the streets to hound her out. You had Tangie, on the committe, who seriously believes taht his jottings on a fag packet are more accurate than Neil Doncasters sums. There was a Chairman who was renowned for his anti Smith & Jones views.

 

But none of you do know best. There''s not many people in the country, let alone Norwich fans, who know more about owning a football club than Smith & Jones. There''s not many people in the country, let alone ncisa members, who know more about running a football club than Neil Doncaster.

 

Norwich City Football Club is answerable to its''s shareholders and customers. Fans don''t need a kind of trade union to take their views to the club for them. We are all customers and can make our views known as such. Frustration through continual disappointments by poor football resultys will spill over in the stands. The people who run the club will be totally aware of the feelings of the fans. They then have to explain themselves to the shareholders at the annual AGM. The press will also reflect the fans and make things uncomfortable.

 

As a fan I don''t want to be independent of my club. Not in the good times or the bad times. I am a supporter and will support them whatever league they are in. That''s all I can do. In the stands, in the pub or on here I can discuss, managers, coaches, team selections, tactics, players, transfers, the board, even Delia and other owners. But if I really want to run a football club I have to win the lottery or stick to computer games.

 

I would happily join ncisa if it were to be a supporters club doing things to enhance the enjoyment of fans. But I wouldn''t join if they wanted to remain a haven for people who "know best" to spout their views. In that case there would be a space for another organisation to fill. Just looking at the social success of Arrdee''s PUPs has proved that.

 

 

[Desert Fox 0]

Nutty,

You are entitled to your opinions

I am struggling to understand your problem with an organisation that you do not belong to. If you don’t like the way NCISA is run, either join and influence from with, ignore it or set up another body.

NCISA is structured as a democratic body to represent the views of its members. Can I politely suggest that as a non-member that you cant suggest that members don’t need to be in a trade union (as you have put it) when they joined of their own free will. By all means feel to criticise, but please don’t confuse this with the right of NCISA to exist and to be determined by the majority of its members. I don’t have any liking for any of the political parties that have or are governing our country, but I fully support the right of those members to join these parties and to influence their policy. I simply choose to ignore them.

On a separate note, I believe that NCISA should remain independent, but I will respect the views of the majority and not renew if I don’t like it. Equally, if the club want to start a supporters club, I may also join this too. After all we are supporters in different ways and I feel that we do not need to be told how we express support.

For the record, I am completely unconnected with the committee and have no intention of standing for election.

 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Well there you go Des. That''s what happens when you discuss ncisa business on a public supporters forum. So can I politely suggest you approach your committee to get a discussion board going on your own web site[:|]

 

 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

Smudger,

A good post. We will experience bad times again, but hopefully not for some time and I believe that supproters should have an independent voice when this happens. If  the menbership fo NCISA dont want this anymore, then I guess there is nothing to stop a new group forming when the need arises.

[/quote]

---

 

There is no need to reiterate my views on whether football clubs generally need some kind of independent supporters'' organisation to act as a pressure group on occasion.

 

The one point I would make is that if there is such a need, then that group, to have any credibility, must already have been there, in the good times, for when times get bad. Fans should be under no illusions about this - any group bodged togther in a time of crisis will lack serious support and is unlikely to be taken seriously.

 

[Desert Fox 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Well there you go Des. That''s what happens when you discuss ncisa business on a public supporters forum. So can I politely suggest you approach your committee to get a discussion board going on your own web site[:|]

 

 

[/quote]

Nutty,

 

As you have reminded me on more than occasion, this is a public forum and eveyone is entitled to comment - unless of course the moderators deem otherwise. I have no problem with your opinions being expressed other than my when it concerns my right to belong to a democratic body - which I take strong objection to.  Please accept this a reasonable point of view as I have no inclination to get it in to argument about this fundamental right.