The Hypocracy of Transfer Dealings - Laid Bare

[a1canary 0]

...by the Kasper Schmeicel saga at Leeds. The key statements are as follows:Schmeicel: I want to put on record that I have never asked to leave Leeds United. LUFC: We spoke to Kasper''s agent at the end of the season about a contract extension and it was apparent that it was going to be difficult.Schmeicel: (I did not) reject an offer of a new contract, since one was never put to meSo who is pulling the strings here? Is it:a) The player, asking the agent to get more money for them and then hiding behind themb) The club, pushing the player out by insinuating he wants too much moneyc) The agent, engineering a move for his client himself, and collecting a fat cut (that''s "fat cu t") of the dealc) is the most outrageous, but maybe not the least likely? What do you think? If it''s the player, he''s got a serious nerve to orchestrate this and then play the innocent like this. And resort to Twitter to do so. But note the club he''s moving to. Essentially the Chelsea of the Championship. Probably a combination of a and c!

[Kingston Yellow 259]

Or is it d) the player trying to run his contract down but the club not allowing it

[Bill 1,788]

There is a difference between not wanting, and not asking.

The agent would most likely have indicated to Leeds what Smeichel would have wanted in wages for the contract extension, based on what has already been offered/negoitiated/agreed with Leicester.

Leeds have not offered a further contract as it would have been pointless so Smeichel has not refised a new contract nor asked to leave.

No hypocricy. merely normal practice except that it has been aired in public. Something City tend not to do unless they become entangled with silly little clubs and over inflated feelings of importance such as Cowling, Fry and the simpleton at Burnley.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

Kasper would have known his agent was going to speak to Leeds about a contract extension, and the two of them would have discussed the level of salary he was after - they would have also known about the interest from Leicester and the kind of salary that they might have been prepared to offer.

 

Taking this information into the talks with Leeds it would have soon become clear if a deal to extend the contract was possible or not, once it became clear that Leeds weren''t going to meet Leicester''s offer then the agent would have informed them to make a bid. Leeds not wanting to lose the player for free accept the bid.

 

Leeds won''t want the situation to look like they couldn''t offer Kasper as much as Leicester so will spin something to look like a greedy player - it''s embarrasing for a club to lose a player to a team who you consider to be competition for the next season. The alternative is that Leeds weren''t particulary happy with his performances and make it look like they are reluctant sellers to drive the price up £500k or so.

 

How much of this Kasper himself knows is debatable, some agents inform the players of everything, so keep them in the dark to manipulate as much money as possible. If Kasper really wanted to stay at Leeds he would go straight to whoever negotiates for Leeds and see how far apart their positions are. It is becoming increasingly common for players/agents to be painted as the bad guys, but a lot of times the club will try to screw players over - including threats of spread rumours about bad attitutes and being a poor trainer etc.

[norwichmagpie 0]

Kasper isn''t greedy. When at Notts County under the Munto regime he was on wages the club couldn''t afford once it became clear that there wasn''t the promised millions coming in. (When Sven was there and realised it was all a con when Notts, literally, "Couldn''t pay the milk bill".). Kasper could have stayed and said ''not my problem'', or demanded a huge pay off to wind up his contract. He did neither - just accepted the situation and reluctantly - he''d enjoyed his time at Notts - left for Leeds. No fuss, no going to the media, no tantrums, just honest dealing and a great gesture.Great keeper, gets the best out of those around him, good leader, passionate about his football, good attitude, good trainer.

[spencer 1970 214]

I reckon KS''s Dad would have made sure his agent tells him everything as he may know a thing or two about the game.

[Shack Attack 0]

I think Bethnal has summed this up pretty well. The important thing to remember is that there are at least six parties to every transfer deal who all want to believe that they have got the best of any deal and also want to protect their reputation and standing in the game. The player, the agent, the two clubs and the supporters of each club.

 

In most cases the player is keen to not burn bridges at a former club but also wants to make the best possible impression on his new employees. The selling club don''t want to be seen as a soft touch and may often want to paint the player as a troublemaker/past his best/injury prone to convince their own fans that they have got a good deal. Because of the tribal nature of the game the fans of the selling club will rarely offer any goodwill or praise to the player being sold. Hence any scouting missions from posters here to forums of clubs we have recently signed players from will often result of lots of negative reviews of our new player. The buying club are desperate to convince their own fans that they have either got the bargain of the century or have smashed their transfer record depending on their currecnt financial situations and the expectation of their fan base.

 

You could almost argue that the only party acting with any real integrity is the agent. At least they admit that they are only in it for the money [:O][;)]

[a1canary 0]

It''s only "normal" city1st in the sense that it is what we have come to expect. It''s the sale and purchase of an asset and could be transparent, clear and straighforward when it''s actually shrouded in vagueries, deceipt, claim and counter claim. It makes for an environment that encourages and breeds corruption and misdeeds - just look at FIFA. Twitter might actually help in this respect if it allows players to shed some light on some of the dealings where their agents or clubs have deliberately twisted stories or misled fans.Either way, the only place where this sort of thing is "normal" is in the world of football. Otherwise it''s anything but.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="a1canary"]
Either way, the only place where this sort of thing is "normal" is in the world of football. Otherwise it''s anything but.
[/quote]

 

Hardly. Any transaction where the commodity in question is a human being is going to follow exactly the same route. If an MD from a multinational is head hunted by another company do you think they do every thing by the book?

[Bill 1,788]

"It''s only "normal" city1st in the sense that it is what we have come to expect"

Why have we come to expect this ? Because it is the norm, what happens etc

I think you are being a bit niave if you believe "the only place where this sort of thing is "normal" is in the world of football". I also would suggest you are confusing cause and affect. It is the "corruption and misdeeds" that causes "vagueries, deceipt, claim and counter claim" - not the other way round.

Unfortunately as long as there are enough ''mug punters'' it will continue in football. Try reading Broken

Dreams by Tom Bower. it exposes the doubling dealing, ripping off and explains how it is done. Yet we still have the ''mug punters'' bleating about "good ol ''arry" that " cheeky chappie El Tel" yet were it to be in any part of their lives there would be uproar.

As long as fans asre daft enough to believe that a transfer is merely the conjured up figure quoted in some worthless media outlet or care not a jot who owns their club or what the true intention is of that owner then I see no reason for anyone else to stop the gravy train.

Those on it won''t, as they have no interest in stopping it nor any wish to see anyone start to pick at the lose thread.lest it unwinds so far it rteveals to much of what is below.

[a1canary 0]

Recruitment in the real world is a bit more regulated. Plus we have nothing to do with the recruitment of an MD to a multinational. We have much more invested in football though.But ok, if you insist, it goes on wherever there are huge amounts of money involved but it''s only another thing that makes it more removed from the world the rest of us live in and which we might call ''normal''. It''s all a contributory factor to the integrity free zone of professional football in and around the premier league! 

[Bill 1,788]

I didn''t say it "wherever there are huge amounts of money involved ". i said taht it goes on npretty much every where. That is life, it is just that other areas are a bit more practised and ''keeping it under wraps''.

As to being normal, then yes it is normal, as we were talking about this type of behaviour in football not "the world the rest of us live in "

Even there I think you are being a bit naive. This behaviour spreads right through the media, advertising, PR, corporate spoinsorship. To believe taht football exists in some kind a bubble, a holier than thou one as it seems is again extremely naive.

And as long as " We have much more invested in football " then we are caught, hooked, call it what you want. I doubt many heroin addicts question the morality behind the trade, they are just after their ''fix''. An extreme example I know but it amounts to the same. In almost every way, unfortunately.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

[quote user="a1canary"]Recruitment in the real world is a bit more regulated. Plus we have nothing to do with the recruitment of an MD to a multinational. We have much more invested in football though.
But ok, if you insist, it goes on wherever there are huge amounts of money involved but it''s only another thing that makes it more removed from the world the rest of us live in and which we might call ''normal''. It''s all a contributory factor to the integrity free zone of professional football in and around the premier league! 
[/quote]

I would say recruitment in the real world is less regulated. In football you aren''t allowed to speak to the indivdual player without the clubs permission, I''m not sure how the world of big business works but I''m pretty sure that isn''t the case.

 

Football transfers get messy becuase there is emotion attached and when this is combined with large amounts of money there will always be issues. Fans expect players to show loyalty in excess of what fans or clubs ever show towards the player and are surprised when they leave to chase larger wages or signing on fee elsewhere.

[PurpleCanary 6,378]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="a1canary"]Recruitment in the real world is a bit more regulated. Plus we have nothing to do with the recruitment of an MD to a multinational. We have much more invested in football though.
But ok, if you insist, it goes on wherever there are huge amounts of money involved but it''s only another thing that makes it more removed from the world the rest of us live in and which we might call ''normal''. It''s all a contributory factor to the integrity free zone of professional football in and around the premier league! 
[/quote]

I would say recruitment in the real world is less regulated. In football you aren''t allowed to speak to the indivdual player without the clubs permission, I''m not sure how the world of big business works but I''m pretty sure that isn''t the case.

 

Football transfers get messy becuase there is emotion attached and when this is combined with large amounts of money there will always be issues. Fans expect players to show loyalty in excess of what fans or clubs ever show towards the player and are surprised when they leave to chase larger wages or signing on fee elsewhere.

[/quote]

 

---

 

Surreptitious poaching goes on all the time in big business. Apple last year got so fed up with other firms trying to lure away Tim Cook, who is effectively running the company, that it gave him $35m-worth of stock. Just the $35m worth...


And sometimes it''s not just individuals. Blink and you can find that a whole team of specialists at one company (an investment bank, for example) has pitched up at a rival firm. A bit like losing your midfield in one fell swoop.

 

Football can look rather honest by comparison...

 

[a1canary 0]

My last reply was to shack, city1st, hence reference to recruitment/MDs

and his analogy. Which is now being queried by bethnal! The degree to

which it goes on in other spheres is really not the point though. I

would argue it does go on in other spheres when there''s lots of money

involved.

Either way i''m not really sure what you''re debating here since you seem to be broadly agreeing with me when you say:"As long as fans are daft enough to believe that a transfer is

merely the conjured up figure quoted in some worthless media outlet or

care not a jot who owns their club or what the true intention is of that

owner then I see no reason for anyone else to stop the gravy train."

i.e. bemoaning the lack of integrity in the football (and ok if you - and bethnal - insist, various walks of life). but we are invested in this because we are invested in ncfc and we (i hope) don''t want to see ncfc caught up in it or end up in the same cesspit. following promotion you might say we''re already there! really i''m just continuing the theme of this thread from another angle:http://services.pinkun.com/FORUMS/PINKUN/CS/forums/2566289/ShowPost.aspxThe difference between us seems to be that some are ok to sit back and say "que sera" and others prefer to speak out. I guess because we are now swimming with the sharks, i''m more nervous that we will turn in to them. Pop will eat itself and all that!

[Bill 1,788]

A1, I''m not sure of your point with "and ok if you - and bethnal - insist, various walks of life"

I really don''t think that corruption, misleading, sneaky deals are possibilities simply because me and Bethnal INSIST they are. My few years of life have taught me that, as I said before, it is everywhere.Again it''s just that some are better at hiding it than others.

As to whether we fall into that trap, I doubt we will, The club is well ran and has a divergence of successful businesmen on the board who are City fans. That makes a considerable difference. I don''t doubt that McNally can be McNasty in his dealings and will strike a hard bargain where possible. but taht''s all.

But I would argue that our success goes back a long way. We have never lost sight of that ''paternal'' hand on the tiller from the likes of Watling who have kept the club as a City and county concern. Whilst there have been the usual bleats about prudence and the club needing to show ''hambition'', even a clamour for an ''hinvestor'' from some of the less bright we have pretty much retained a sense of practicality when it comes to money. In that light, for all their other faults, Delia and Wyn have grown into that mould and have kept the club on track.

How long this latest venture lasts I don''t know but two things I am certain of. If it fails sooner rather than later it won''t be because we have not gone about it in the right fashion and secondly, we are not in the hands of some dodgy foreign ,money launderers, offshore arms dealers or any other shyster looking to fill his pockets under the guise of being an ''hinvestor''.

Now excuse me while I shove some more cash into this brown envelope and head down to Barton Mills to meet my contact.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,786]

Anyone who doesn''t think that shady "transfers" occur in the non-football world may be interested to know that a certain insurer specialising in Farm Insurance, and owned by an Erstwhile Suiter of NCFC (hopefully that stops the thread getting pulled) has just attracted a rival team of underwriters from an other Farm Insurance company. This will undoubtedly have parties crying foul and rushing to check contracts of employment , with warnings, potential injuctions and the like inevitable. Said former suiter was crying a few years ago all the way to the High Court in a six figure law suit  when his own company lost apporximately 14 staff all to the same competitor.

It most certainly doesn''t only happen in Football. Although the work of the Jolly Old Agent does lead to some extreme circumstances. I am minded of the "come and get me"''s of Ashton and Green, where the early business was done through the press.