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BlyBlyBabes

Still the best way to financial salvation?

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Ramp up investment in the Academy set-up.  

Produce a few talents.

Sell on one or two from time to time  (preferably to Manchester City![;)]

Robert Chase did it in his time.

Where there''s a will there''s a way (Southampton?)

Better than waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting on Deloittes to find some phantom sugar daddy/mummy, I reckon.

Which route do you prefer?

OTBC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Norwich have always had good academy facilities but the ruling in the late 90''s that restricted who they could sign stopped the club from doing what they done in the Robert Chase years.

I think the club still have the same ethics in trying to bring on kids but I think noe the board are more ambitious and can see that success on the pitch will make Norwich a bigger and better club particularly if getting into the Premiership was achieved and we could hang in there!

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[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]Norwich have always had good academy facilities but the ruling in the late 90''s that restricted who they could sign stopped the club from doing what they done in the Robert Chase years.

I think the club still have the same ethics in trying to bring on kids but I think noe the board are more ambitious and can see that success on the pitch will make Norwich a bigger and better club particularly if getting into the Premiership was achieved and we could hang in there![/quote]We''ve had debates about the 90s rule change before.  The big teams seem to be able to work around it.  IMO it hasn''t made much odds now, the problem we had was when this club made cut backs it ballsed up making cut backs in the kids dept. And we had baron patches of virtually no talent coming through.

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I always think that there''s rather too much ''why we can''t'' rather than ''how we can'' when this debate about the Academy crops up.

Maybe Bowker and McNally need to get their minds around it and spend some of the ''Deloitte money'' reseaching the issue to establish ''how it can be done''?

Something for NCISA to push?

Surprisingly (?) where there''s a will there''s very often a way.

OTBC

 

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[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="grantroederdisaster"]Norwich have always had good academy facilities but the ruling in the late 90''s that restricted who they could sign stopped the club from doing what they done in the Robert Chase years. I think the club still have the same ethics in trying to bring on kids but I think noe the board are more ambitious and can see that success on the pitch will make Norwich a bigger and better club particularly if getting into the Premiership was achieved and we could hang in there![/quote]

We''ve had debates about the 90s rule change before.  The big teams seem to be able to work around it.  IMO it hasn''t made much odds now, the problem we had was when this club made cut backs it ballsed up making cut backs in the kids dept. And we had baron patches of virtually no talent coming through.
[/quote]

it had had a massive impact upon on academy. It doesnt effect most of the big clubs as they are either london based or north west so have a massive catchment area.

For example my ex door neighbor was a product of the 90s academy and played for norwich over 50 times. Used to get on the train from bristol most weekends just to come training and play youth matches. He had been doing that for many years. The ruling would of meant we would be £2 million pounds worse off and he would of played for his boyhood team Brizzle Rovers. See if you can work out who it is ;)

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Get in the Premier League with it huges revenues and parachute payments. Do what Blackpool are doing and invest in completing the ground and securing the long term future of the club. They will get clobbered this season but the legacy will be a very strong championship side for years to come.

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[quote user="Good Touch For A Big Man"]Get in the Premier League with it huges revenues and parachute payments. Do what Blackpool are doing and invest in completing the ground and securing the long term future of the club. They will get clobbered this season but the legacy will be a very strong championship side for years to come.[/quote]

Assuming of course that they don''t waste their parachute payments and eventually slip and slide back to the 3rd division.

[:$]

OTBC

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[quote user="First Wizard"]Getting to and staying in the Premiership, cash guarenteed then.[/quote]

And buy the players all we''ll need? Have you seen the prices lately?

That way we''d always be hanging on by our fingertips; even with a 35,000 capacity.

OTBC

 

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[quote user="City penguin"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="grantroederdisaster"]Norwich have always had good academy facilities but the ruling in the late 90''s that restricted who they could sign stopped the club from doing what they done in the Robert Chase years. I think the club still have the same ethics in trying to bring on kids but I think noe the board are more ambitious and can see that success on the pitch will make Norwich a bigger and better club particularly if getting into the Premiership was achieved and we could hang in there![/quote]

We''ve had debates about the 90s rule change before.  The big teams seem to be able to work around it.  IMO it hasn''t made much odds now, the problem we had was when this club made cut backs it ballsed up making cut backs in the kids dept. And we had baron patches of virtually no talent coming through.
[/quote]

it had had a massive impact upon on academy. It doesnt effect most of the big clubs as they are either london based or north west so have a massive catchment area.

For example my ex door neighbor was a product of the 90s academy and played for norwich over 50 times. Used to get on the train from bristol most weekends just to come training and play youth matches. He had been doing that for many years. The ruling would of meant we would be £2 million pounds worse off and he would of played for his boyhood team Brizzle Rovers. See if you can work out who it is ;)

[/quote]

I''m guessing one of Cureton, Eadie, Andy Johnson or Bellamy?

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[quote user="City penguin"]

 

it had had a massive impact upon on academy. It doesnt effect most of the big clubs as they are either london based or north west so have a massive catchment area.

For example my ex door neighbor was a product of the 90s academy and played for norwich over 50 times. Used to get on the train from bristol most weekends just to come training and play youth matches. He had been doing that for many years. The ruling would of meant we would be £2 million pounds worse off and he would of played for his boyhood team Brizzle Rovers. See if you can work out who it is ;)

[/quote]

 

andy johnson? and that would have been 2.6mil

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[quote user="City penguin"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="grantroederdisaster"]Norwich have always had good academy facilities but the ruling in the late 90''s that restricted who they could sign stopped the club from doing what they done in the Robert Chase years. I think the club still have the same ethics in trying to bring on kids but I think noe the board are more ambitious and can see that success on the pitch will make Norwich a bigger and better club particularly if getting into the Premiership was achieved and we could hang in there![/quote]We''ve had debates about the 90s rule change before.  The big teams seem to be able to work around it.  IMO it hasn''t made much odds now, the problem we had was when this club made cut backs it ballsed up making cut backs in the kids dept. And we had baron patches of virtually no talent coming through.[/quote]

it had had a massive impact upon on academy. It doesnt effect most of the big clubs as they are either london based or north west so have a massive catchment area.

For example my ex door neighbor was a product of the 90s academy and played for norwich over 50 times. Used to get on the train from bristol most weekends just to come training and play youth matches. He had been doing that for many years. The ruling would of meant we would be £2 million pounds worse off and he would of played for his boyhood team Brizzle Rovers. See if you can work out who it is ;)

[/quote]The mystery to me is, how do the big clubs get around the rules?  I''ve just had a look at Chelsea (no particular reason)  they have 5-6 academy kids who aren''t even British.  I just don''t get it.  Unless of course Chelsea chooses to shell out loads of cash to move their entire families into the catchment area.

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[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="City penguin"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="grantroederdisaster"]Norwich have always had good academy facilities but the ruling in the late 90''s that restricted who they could sign stopped the club from doing what they done in the Robert Chase years. I think the club still have the same ethics in trying to bring on kids but I think noe the board are more ambitious and can see that success on the pitch will make Norwich a bigger and better club particularly if getting into the Premiership was achieved and we could hang in there![/quote]

We''ve had debates about the 90s rule change before.  The big teams seem to be able to work around it.  IMO it hasn''t made much odds now, the problem we had was when this club made cut backs it ballsed up making cut backs in the kids dept. And we had baron patches of virtually no talent coming through.
[/quote]

it had had a massive impact upon on academy. It doesnt effect most of the big clubs as they are either london based or north west so have a massive catchment area.

For example my ex door neighbor was a product of the 90s academy and played for norwich over 50 times. Used to get on the train from bristol most weekends just to come training and play youth matches. He had been doing that for many years. The ruling would of meant we would be £2 million pounds worse off and he would of played for his boyhood team Brizzle Rovers. See if you can work out who it is ;)

[/quote]

The mystery to me is, how do the big clubs get around the rules?  I''ve just had a look at Chelsea (no particular reason)  they have 5-6 academy kids who aren''t even British.  I just don''t get it.  Unless of course Chelsea chooses to shell out loads of cash to move their entire families into the catchment area.
[/quote]

Yep, this is the sort of thing that needs throughly researching.

OTBC

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[quote user="Smeg"][quote user="City penguin"]

 

it had had a massive impact upon on academy. It doesnt effect most of the big clubs as they are either london based or north west so have a massive catchment area.

For example my ex door neighbor was a product of the 90s academy and played for norwich over 50 times. Used to get on the train from bristol most weekends just to come training and play youth matches. He had been doing that for many years. The ruling would of meant we would be £2 million pounds worse off and he would of played for his boyhood team Brizzle Rovers. See if you can work out who it is ;)

[/quote]

 

andy johnson? and that would have been 2.6mil

[/quote]

correct, how on earth do you remember the exact figure. I could barely and it was one of my dads good mates.

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I assume that the foreign players in Chelsea''s Academy are over past their 16th birthday. The travelling time rules are for schoolboys. I think those rules are one hour travelling time to the academy for ages under 9 to under 13. For ages under 13 to under 16 this is increased to 1.5 hours. There would be no travelling time rules for over 16.

 

This means that our club can''t sign the young kids from further than 1 hours travelling time away. This rule is particularly harsh for Norwich because many of our best youngsters used to be signed as schoolboys from places many hours further away than is now allowed. I also believe this is a double edged sword because Norwich and Norfolk just don''t have a history of producing top footballers. I have never understood why that is but I''m afraid that it''s the case.

 

I believe our club have found a way around this by forming a partnership with the university of Hertfordshire. Norwich scouts can recommend young footballers to attend the development centre in Hatfield and the coaches at the centre can recommend players to our club. And of course other clubs do release players at the end of various age groups. I believe Korey Smith was once with Arsenal. I think George Francomb was with Spurs. But it''s not the same as being able to sign up the best kids from an early age as we did with the likes of Bellamy.

 

I wonder how Robert Chase would have coped in todays game? It''s a shame he couldn''t have found a couple of million when a couple of million would have made a huge difference. Could have meant a league Championship and maybe an FA Cup. And to think that couple of million was right on his doorstep!

 

Same old, same old from the OP!

 

Come on Lapp.... do the honours [|-)]

 

 

 

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Well explained Nutty, thx.  IMO Chase would''ve no doubt looked to work around or bend the rules.  Like buying a patch of rough ground somewhere around Milton Keynes sticking a city flag in it and claiming it was a satellite training ground.  Then argued about the legality afterward.

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Doing that is kind of legal I think. But there are lots of restrictions. Many of them are explained here

People would like to think our club performs badly in these areas but I beg to differ. I think we do quite well given the disadvantages we have. I would like to see a comprehensive investigation into the reason why Norwich and Norfolk doesn''t appear to produce their fair share of top footballers. If we could change that stat we''d have much more chance of success with the academy than we would by trying to bend the rules.

 

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Although I cannot stand the man, didn''t Simon Jordan basically say a few years back academies rarely make a club money?

The amount you have to spend on developing young talent can be large sums when you think about paying them, the coaches the academy set up costs etc etc.

Doubt the only time you will make some money is when you get clubs willing to pay stupid money for a player ala Wickham @ ITFC atm (rumoured to be 10million now!)

Also you have to be careful that a big club doesn''t grab them. Tribunal money rarely is enough these days.

Bet if you take an intake of 5-10 players a year and only manage to get money for say 2, even decent money, you are making a lose on the academy.

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[quote user="YorkCanary"]

Although I cannot stand the man, didn''t Simon Jordan basically say a few years back academies rarely make a club money?

The amount you have to spend on developing young talent can be large sums when you think about paying them, the coaches the academy set up costs etc etc.

Doubt the only time you will make some money is when you get clubs willing to pay stupid money for a player ala Wickham @ ITFC atm (rumoured to be 10million now!)

Also you have to be careful that a big club doesn''t grab them. Tribunal money rarely is enough these days.

Bet if you take an intake of 5-10 players a year and only manage to get money for say 2, even decent money, you are making a lose on the academy.

[/quote]Some decades ago the Daily Mail costed it all out. It took the Arsenal youth intake one year and followed it through. Noting how many "promising" players dropped out, year by year, itemising all the costs that YorkCanary mentions, and so on. And of the 15 or whatever it was from that intake of 15-year-olds, a couple had respectable careers down the league, but only one became an Arsenal regular.Now as it happens that one was Charlie George, who was a fair player. But, far from having cost Arsenal nothing, he had actually cost Arsenal a great deal of money. Of course, the double upside was that he was playing for Arsenal  and not against them, for Spurs or another London club.

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]when this debate about the Academy crops up............[/quote]''cept it didn''t ''crop up'' did it Bly? You brought it up!

But still.......

Another one you could have posted under your "yawn" thread! [|-)]

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]when this debate about the Academy crops up............[/quote]''cept it didn''t ''crop up'' did it Bly? You brought it up!

But still.......

Another one you could have posted under your "yawn" thread! [|-)]

[/quote]

OTBC

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I assume that the foreign players in Chelsea''s Academy are over past their 16th birthday. The travelling time rules are for schoolboys. I think those rules are one hour travelling time to the academy for ages under 9 to under 13. For ages under 13 to under 16 this is increased to 1.5 hours. There would be no travelling time rules for over 16.

 

This means that our club can''t sign the young kids from further than 1 hours travelling time away. This rule is particularly harsh for Norwich because many of our best youngsters used to be signed as schoolboys from places many hours further away than is now allowed. I also believe this is a double edged sword because Norwich and Norfolk just don''t have a history of producing top footballers. I have never understood why that is but I''m afraid that it''s the case.

 

I believe our club have found a way around this by forming a partnership with the university of Hertfordshire. Norwich scouts can recommend young footballers to attend the development centre in Hatfield and the coaches at the centre can recommend players to our club. And of course other clubs do release players at the end of various age groups. I believe Korey Smith was once with Arsenal. I think George Francomb was with Spurs. But it''s not the same as being able to sign up the best kids from an early age as we did with the likes of Bellamy.

 

I wonder how Robert Chase would have coped in todays game? It''s a shame he couldn''t have found a couple of million when a couple of million would have made a huge difference. Could have meant a league Championship and maybe an FA Cup. And to think that couple of million was right on his doorstep!

 

Same old, same old from the OP!

 

Come on Lapp.... do the honours [|-)]

 

[/quote]

 

 

 

OTBC

 

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="YorkCanary"]

Although I cannot stand the man, didn''t Simon Jordan basically say a few years back academies rarely make a club money?

The amount you have to spend on developing young talent can be large sums when you think about paying them, the coaches the academy set up costs etc etc.

Doubt the only time you will make some money is when you get clubs willing to pay stupid money for a player ala Wickham @ ITFC atm (rumoured to be 10million now!)

Also you have to be careful that a big club doesn''t grab them. Tribunal money rarely is enough these days.

Bet if you take an intake of 5-10 players a year and only manage to get money for say 2, even decent money, you are making a lose on the academy.

[/quote]

Some decades ago the Daily Mail costed it all out. It took the Arsenal youth intake one year and followed it through. Noting how many "promising" players dropped out, year by year, itemising all the costs that YorkCanary mentions, and so on. And of the 15 or whatever it was from that intake of 15-year-olds, a couple had respectable careers down the league, but only one became an Arsenal regular.

Now as it happens that one was Charlie George, who was a fair player. But, far from having cost Arsenal nothing, he had actually cost Arsenal a great deal of money. Of course, the double upside was that he was playing for Arsenal  and not against them, for Spurs or another London club.

[/quote]

Well''quite frankly,  if the Daily Mail is your reference it is rather difficult to take your point seriously.

[:(]

OTBC

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Well, I see that some of the ''why it can''t be done'' brigade have emerged.

I understand a core feature of their argument to be that Robert Chase would bend the rules to achieve success, but that Bowker/McNally would not.

It is not a crime to bend rules (amongst other things they are there to be tested - particularly if ''right'' and ''morality'' are on your side), but to break the rules.

A lot of business is about finding niches and exploiting them to one''s advantage.

But the I suspect that many of the Inner Circle think business smells bad.

All the more reason to forge ahead and spend some of the Deloitte money on researching ''how it can be done''

Think positive. Think success.

OTBC

 

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

[/quote]When you can''t find the words.........

........find a picture! [:(]

[/quote]

[:)]They say a picture is worth a thousand words.[:)]

[:)]Now ain''t that the truth, bor.[:)]

OTBC

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][:)]They say a picture is worth a thousand words.[:)][/quote]You mean.........

We''ve had to endure all those pointless, futile, tedious, boring threads.........

When a few pictures would have done? [:^)][:''(]

[|-)]

 

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