If the diamond had to be changed.....

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Shyster"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Shyster"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Shyster"][quote user="morty"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

We dont need albert adomah;  Jason Puncheon is far better;   as were all the midfielder in stripes yest.

Our problems are not with pace or flair,  but with strength,  we won too few tackles and were not physcial or hungry enough in the centre of the park. 

[/quote]Similar to you my opinion is that yesterday was down to lack of work rate, not the system.[/quote]

It''s also your opinion that McNamee is ineffective, yet it is he via second half substitutions in recent matches that saved/garnered at least 4 points.

[/quote]Do you think he made a difference yesterday?[/quote]

Do you think McNamee was ineffective as a sub coming on against Brentford, Walsall & Brighton? All RECENT matches that we would''ve lost points in but for a change in formation with the former playing a vital role.Now stop acting like a numb-skull, I kind of expect better of you.[/quote]Ah right, I''m a numb skull because I don''t agree with you?Yes, in some matches he has given us an extra dimension, but he was ineffective yesterday. And I don''t think he''s anywhere near getting a start either.[/quote]

McNamee can''t realistically start because there isn''t an effective or realistic formation to accommodate him - Why? Because like I''ve been saying all season, except now I feel I''ve got to shout to get the message through once and for all, WE HAVE NO PACE ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE F*CKING FOOTBALL PITCH!![/quote]Yeah, you''re probably right, but getting all shouty and soiling yourself isn''t going to change it.[;)][/quote]

I''m angry, morty - angry that I saw the recent pitfall coming and angry that it could''ve been avoided but for a couple of signings to see us guaranteed promotion.I''m especially angry that I find myself questioning the credentials of yet another football manager.

[PurpleCanary 5,560]

A question. I may well be wrong about this but in my fevered imagination I have a vague idea Hughes can play as a right-sided midfielder rather than in the centre.

If so, then there is an obvious 4-4-2 formation that springs to mind that accommodates McNamee on the left.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Shyster"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Shyster"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Shyster"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Shyster"][quote user="morty"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

We dont need albert adomah;  Jason Puncheon is far better;   as were all the midfielder in stripes yest.

Our problems are not with pace or flair,  but with strength,  we won too few tackles and were not physcial or hungry enough in the centre of the park. 

[/quote]Similar to you my opinion is that yesterday was down to lack of work rate, not the system.[/quote]

It''s also your opinion that McNamee is ineffective, yet it is he via second half substitutions in recent matches that saved/garnered at least 4 points.

[/quote]Do you think he made a difference yesterday?[/quote]

Do you think McNamee was ineffective as a sub coming on against Brentford, Walsall & Brighton? All RECENT matches that we would''ve lost points in but for a change in formation with the former playing a vital role.Now stop acting like a numb-skull, I kind of expect better of you.[/quote]Ah right, I''m a numb skull because I don''t agree with you?Yes, in some matches he has given us an extra dimension, but he was ineffective yesterday. And I don''t think he''s anywhere near getting a start either.[/quote]

McNamee can''t realistically start because there isn''t an effective or realistic formation to accommodate him - Why? Because like I''ve been saying all season, except now I feel I''ve got to shout to get the message through once and for all, WE HAVE NO PACE ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE F*CKING FOOTBALL PITCH!![/quote]Yeah, you''re probably right, but getting all shouty and soiling yourself isn''t going to change it.[;)][/quote]

I''m angry, morty - angry that I saw the recent pitfall coming and angry that it could''ve been avoided but for a couple of signings to see us guaranteed promotion.I''m especially angry that I find myself questioning the credentials of yet another football manager.[/quote]McNally said that Lambert got all the players he asked for. We know the financial constraints that we are operating under, we don''t have gezillions of cash to splash about so I''m guessing we are trying to get out of this league without blowing cash we simply don''t have. If Lambo had wanted a right winger he would have asked for one, he obviously has more faith in the diamond getting us out of this league than you do.That said I still think that our squad, when all fit, has enough to get us over the line. And of course Lambert isn''t going to get it right every single week, but I think the players workrate (or lack of) let him down yesterday.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]A question. I may well be wrong about this but in my fevered imagination I have a vague idea Hughes can play as a right-sided midfielder rather than in the centre.

If so, then there is an obvious 4-4-2 formation that springs to mind that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]Possibly, but I think MacNamee and Hoolahoop in the same team really is asking for it.They are both luxury players with little or no defensive capability.It would be like having two Huckerbys, we''d win games 9-8.

[PurpleCanary 5,560]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]A question. I may well be wrong about this but in my fevered imagination I have a vague idea Hughes can play as a right-sided midfielder rather than in the centre.

If so, then there is an obvious 4-4-2 formation that springs to mind that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]Possibly, but I think MacNamee and Hoolahoop in the same team really is asking for it.They are both luxury players with little or no defensive capability.It would be like having two Huckerbys, we''d win games 9-8.[/quote]

But Hoolahan would not be in that side, Morty. Hughes, on the right, two central midfielders, McNamee on the left, Holt and Martin up front.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]A question. I may well be wrong about this but in my fevered imagination I have a vague idea Hughes can play as a right-sided midfielder rather than in the centre.

If so, then there is an obvious 4-4-2 formation that springs to mind that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]Possibly, but I think MacNamee and Hoolahoop in the same team really is asking for it.They are both luxury players with little or no defensive capability.It would be like having two Huckerbys, we''d win games 9-8.[/quote]

But Hoolahan would not be in that side, Morty. Hughes, on the right, two central midfielders, McNamee on the left, Holt and Martin up front.[/quote]So you are saying drop Hoolahan?I really don''t think so somehow.

[PurpleCanary 5,560]

Morty, I don''t get to see many games, but he was poor against Hartlepool and by all accounts has not been playing well recently.

Dropping him to the bench might well be a good idea, to recharge his batteries. But even if you continue to start with Hoolahan there is nothing that says he has to be kept on for 90 minutes. IF Hughes can play wide right then that does allow for a change to 4-4-2 during a game that accommodates McNamee on the left.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Morty, I don''t get to see many games, but he was poor against Hartlepool and by all accounts has not been playing well recently.

Dropping him to the bench might well be a good idea, to recharge his batteries. But even if you continue to start with Hoolahan there is nothing that says he has to be kept on for 90 minutes. IF Hughes can play wide right then that does allow for a change to 4-4-2 during a game that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]He was one of the few players that came away with any credit for me yesterday. The diamond has been created to play to his strengths. I honestly don''t think he has played badly enough to be dropped, I think we would look very average indeed without him in the team.

[Heresyourfathersgun 0]

The only changes that need to be made are (assuming Russells card is overturned) Askou in for Nelson when fit - he plays more balls on the floor and keeps the play moving through midfield. No disrespect to Nelson, but he''s too agricultural.

Rest Korey Smith for Hughes. The kid has done well but sheer effort isn''t enough now and I think Hughes plays more intelligent football and again can move things from midfield.

Drury needs to get back as soon as to replace Rose and support Lappin.

The diamond works and is flexible enough to defeat most teams in this league - a change to 4-4-2 now will require a bedding in period which could make us vulnerable, so why change a system that just needs a bit of an injection. Opposition worked us out months ago but still generally can''t cope with it.  Saints were good enough yesterday and we were off it. Look at the rest of the season and pick the games where we meet anyone like them again and wonder if there really won''t be enough points from the diamond system?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Heresyourfathersgun"]

The only changes that need to be made are (assuming Russells card is overturned) Askou in for Nelson when fit - he plays more balls on the floor and keeps the play moving through midfield. No disrespect to Nelson, but he''s too agricultural.

Rest Korey Smith for Hughes. The kid has done well but sheer effort isn''t enough now and I think Hughes plays more intelligent football and again can move things from midfield.

Drury needs to get back as soon as to replace Rose and support Lappin.

The diamond works and is flexible enough to defeat most teams in this league - a change to 4-4-2 now will require a bedding in period which could make us vulnerable, so why change a system that just needs a bit of an injection. Opposition worked us out months ago but still generally can''t cope with it.  Saints were good enough yesterday and we were off it. Look at the rest of the season and pick the games where we meet anyone like them again and wonder if there really won''t be enough points from the diamond system?

[/quote]Yep, agree with pretty much all of that.[Y]

[PurpleCanary 5,560]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]Morty, I don''t get to see many games, but he was poor against Hartlepool and by all accounts has not been playing well recently.

Dropping him to the bench might well be a good idea, to recharge his batteries. But even if you continue to start with Hoolahan there is nothing that says he has to be kept on for 90 minutes. IF Hughes can play wide right then that does allow for a change to 4-4-2 during a game that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]He was one of the few players that came away with any credit for me yesterday. The diamond has been created to play to his strengths. I honestly don''t think he has played badly enough to be dropped, I think we would look very average indeed without him in the team.[/quote]Morty, I wasn''t there yesterday, and am happy to accept what you say about Hoolahan''s performance, As I said before, I wasn''t necessarily advocating that he should be dropped (although that would make a mess of Southend''s tactical preparations!) but certainly that he might have to be sacrificed during a game to switch to 4-4-2.I would also make another point. One is that one has to assume that Lambert bought McNamee to give himself the option of 4-4-2 but knew that in doing so he was creating a  selection/formation problem. One also has to assume he has a cunning plan to solve that problem.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]Morty, I don''t get to see many games, but he was poor against Hartlepool and by all accounts has not been playing well recently.

Dropping him to the bench might well be a good idea, to recharge his batteries. But even if you continue to start with Hoolahan there is nothing that says he has to be kept on for 90 minutes. IF Hughes can play wide right then that does allow for a change to 4-4-2 during a game that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]He was one of the few players that came away with any credit for me yesterday. The diamond has been created to play to his strengths. I honestly don''t think he has played badly enough to be dropped, I think we would look very average indeed without him in the team.[/quote]Morty, I wasn''t there yesterday, and am happy to accept what you say about Hoolahan''s performance, As I said before, I wasn''t necessarily advocating that he should be dropped (although that would make a mess of Southend''s tactical preparations!) but certainly that he might have to be sacrificed during a game to switch to 4-4-2.I would also make another point. One is that one has to assume that Lambert bought McNamee to give himself the option of 4-4-2 but knew that in doing so he was creating a  selection/formation problem. One also has to assume he has a cunning plan to solve that problem.[/quote]See thats the flaw in dropping the diamond, where do you fit Hoolahan in if we play 4-4-2.Yeah, I''m hoping he has a cunning plan too.[:)]

[ZLF 274]

McNamee was not effective against Brentford and he was not effective yesterday.  In a  442 or a diamond he needs to work and defend,  as esp yest he needed to contribute working back and he did not.

Against Millwall he made an impact,  but not a difference.  Walsall he had a good game.   But as we have seen with Cody and OJ there is a huge difference between being a starter and a sub. 

But you have not answered my question on why we should go 4-4-2 when that compromises 4 positions when the diamond, also flawed,  plays to our strengths.

The diamond works better with Drury;  he gets forward and plays football, bringing Lappin into the game more.  On such small changes success and failure is built. 

442 is an option,   but it is as flawed,  if not more so, than the diamond.   Just my opinion,  just as yours is about the cracked diamond,  but neither of us are numbskulls for voicing that opinion;   stating that just undermines yours.   

Is less an issue of how you accomodate McNammee,  more of how you do while keeping Hoolahan, Martin and Holt in the same side.

[ZLF 274]

And for all his crosses McNamee has yet to be involved in a goal,  no assists so far.   Get him to defend and work harder, want to have an impact and actually cross to one of our players.   Then I will have some time for him and credibility for him being on the left of the diamond starts to grow.

 

[the bristol nest 0]

of course the diamond has to change.when any system is ineffective an alternative must be tried. this could be mid game, after 5 minutes or when the need for strength thro the midfield is needed against the better teams. we are not the best side in this league at the moment, i think that we played them yesterday but we can be better. if we stick to plan a only i worry for us against the sides coming up.

we can and should be growing as a side under a new manager. this is lamberts chance to show us that he can get us ready to compete against ccc sides like soton.

[Jacoljam 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

McNamee was not effective against Brentford and he was not effective yesterday.  In a  442 or a diamond he needs to work and defend,  as esp yest he needed to contribute working back and he did not.

Against Millwall he made an impact,  but not a difference.  Walsall he had a good game.   But as we have seen with Cody and OJ there is a huge difference between being a starter and a sub. 

But you have not answered my question on why we should go 4-4-2 when that compromises 4 positions when the diamond, also flawed,  plays to our strengths.

The diamond works better with Drury;  he gets forward and plays football, bringing Lappin into the game more.  On such small changes success and failure is built. 

442 is an option,   but it is as flawed,  if not more so, than the diamond.   Just my opinion,  just as yours is about the cracked diamond,  but neither of us are numbskulls for voicing that opinion;   stating that just undermines yours.   

Is less an issue of how you accomodate McNammee,  more of how you do while keeping Hoolahan, Martin and Holt in the same side.

[/quote]Very good point.[:D]

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]A question. I may well be wrong about this but in my fevered imagination I have a vague idea Hughes can play as a right-sided midfielder rather than in the centre.

If so, then there is an obvious 4-4-2 formation that springs to mind that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]

Yes, I''d go with Hughes on the right in a 4-4-2 against Southend. We should''ve been ''experimenting'' with alternative formations and personnel against lesser sides at home a few weeks back, but then we should''ve also acquired the services of a decent right flanker in January. If Russel isn''t banned I''d go with him as DMC, Hoolahan as the foraging central midfielder and McNamee & Hughes on the flanks.It''s time to drop Lappin, Nelson & Smith.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Shyster"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]A question. I may well be wrong about this but in my fevered imagination I have a vague idea Hughes can play as a right-sided midfielder rather than in the centre.

If so, then there is an obvious 4-4-2 formation that springs to mind that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]

Yes, I''d go with Hughes on the right in a 4-4-2 against Southend. We should''ve been ''experimenting'' with alternative formations and personnel against lesser sides at home a few weeks back, but then we should''ve also acquired the services of a decent right flanker in January. If Russel isn''t banned I''d go with him as DMC, Hoolahan as the foraging central midfielder and McNamee & Hughes on the flanks.It''s time to drop Lappin, Nelson & Smith.[/quote]I may agree with you there but still don''t know if its one change too far, system and personnel may be too much at once. I presume you''re thinking Martin and Holt up front?

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Shyster"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]A question. I may well be wrong about this but in my fevered imagination I have a vague idea Hughes can play as a right-sided midfielder rather than in the centre.

If so, then there is an obvious 4-4-2 formation that springs to mind that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]

Yes, I''d go with Hughes on the right in a 4-4-2 against Southend. We should''ve been ''experimenting'' with alternative formations and personnel against lesser sides at home a few weeks back, but then we should''ve also acquired the services of a decent right flanker in January. If Russel isn''t banned I''d go with him as DMC, Hoolahan as the foraging central midfielder and McNamee & Hughes on the flanks.It''s time to drop Lappin, Nelson & Smith.[/quote]I may agree with you there but still don''t know if its one change too far, system and personnel may be too much at once. I presume you''re thinking Martin and Holt up front?[/quote]

Yeah, Martin & Holt up front and Spillane in his favourite role as DMC if Russel is banned.The team has been under performing and changes in personnel could only be a good thing - it wouldn''t exactly demoralise said players to be benched and the likes of Hughes & McNamee would surely prove their worth against lowly opposition at home.Things have gotten pretty stale, morty - time for Lambert to hit the refresh button.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Shyster"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Shyster"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]A question. I may well be wrong about this but in my fevered imagination I have a vague idea Hughes can play as a right-sided midfielder rather than in the centre.

If so, then there is an obvious 4-4-2 formation that springs to mind that accommodates McNamee on the left.[/quote]

Yes, I''d go with Hughes on the right in a 4-4-2 against Southend. We should''ve been ''experimenting'' with alternative formations and personnel against lesser sides at home a few weeks back, but then we should''ve also acquired the services of a decent right flanker in January. If Russel isn''t banned I''d go with him as DMC, Hoolahan as the foraging central midfielder and McNamee & Hughes on the flanks.It''s time to drop Lappin, Nelson & Smith.[/quote]I may agree with you there but still don''t know if its one change too far, system and personnel may be too much at once. I presume you''re thinking Martin and Holt up front?[/quote]

Yeah, Martin & Holt up front and Spillane in his favourite role as DMC if Russel is banned.The team has been under performing and changes in personnel could only be a good thing - it wouldn''t exactly demoralise said players to be benched and the likes of Hughes & McNamee would surely prove their worth against lowly opposition at home.Things have gotten pretty stale, morty - time for Lambert to hit the refresh button.[/quote]I''m hearing you, and not completely dismissing your theory.But changing a player because he''s underperforming is one thing, changing a few is a whole other, changing 3 or 4 and the formation, is it a step too far? How much do we really know about Macnamee or Hughes, is it just a case of "we need a change and they''ll do" or are they genuinely better than what we have in the team right now? And if they prove themselves against lowly opposition does that prove anything?I know we don''t know until we try but I just wonder if it is all too much all at once, considering also they prob didn''t train today so only really have tomorrow to work things through.I wonder honestly if Lambert will err on the side of caution for Tuesday night.

[a1canary 0]

Hmm, Lambert and caution...

This is a man who in our last game went 3 at the back when we''d already had a man sent off!

Still, when it comes to starting selections, he does seem quite cautious. Spillane at dmc sounds interesting but i think he might try Whitbread in the Russell role if he''s fit.

I''m with Shyster though, we''ve been found out. Time to "freshen up for the ladies"!

I don''t buy this "current team have got us this far" rubbish. The current Leeds team got them to a seemingly title winning position. Now they can''t buy a win. I definitely think fatigue could be an issue and we''ve got fresh players like Hughes, McNamee, Askou, Spillane chomping at the bit ready to inject some new energy in to the side. It needs it.

[Dr. Ink 0]

Given the injuries, ''longball Sarfend'' and assuming Russell is banned, I''d try a 4-1-2-1-2 formation!

                 Forster

RMartin - Askou - Doc - Rose

                    Smith    

Hughes          -            McNamee

                           Hoolahan

            Holt - CMartin

Freshen it up, and imagine Hooly and McNamee combining down the left?

Lappin needs to shown he''s not played well recently, and Askou should always be above Nelson when fit. Hughes needs a good run out to impress.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

The diamond formation relies upon quality mobile full backs like Drury.

Recently, his absence and under performing by Martin and Rose have left the diamond ineffective.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]The diamond formation relies upon quality mobile full backs like Drury. [/quote]Spot on Rude Old [Y]It worked best when Spillane was playing right back as although he''s not particularly quick he does have ''legs''. Drury also seemed to have rediscovered his attacking mojo after being petrified of going forward ever since he played behind Hucks. Martin and Rose don''t seem to have the same attributes which, combined with Holt''s suspension and the poor form of Lappin, have caused us real problems recently.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]The diamond formation relies upon quality mobile full backs like Drury.

Recently, his absence and under performing by Martin and Rose have left the diamond ineffective.[/quote]

Yeah, our full-backs assist rates have been phenomenal this season. I''ve heard a rumour Ferguson''s looking at Drury as back-up for Evra.