Why was Lambert preferable to Boothroyd?

[Dronny Canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"] 

Dronny and Cam.. what you say is right if you follow the club through the record books but for those with memories to treasure you couldn''t be any further from the truth. You are both entitled to your opinions and I respect them but I will never agree with them. How can there be little difference between what Aidy did at Watford and what Worthy did here?

 

Let me share a few memories with you. Like being at the Bescot on a sunny autumn afternoon watching us play Walsall off the park with marvelous flowing football from the likes of Francis, Mulryne, Hucks, Crouch and McVeigh and three quality goals to ice the cake. That 4-1 victory against Cardiff that many of us was Hucks last game. Taking ipswich apart and going top without him. Following the saga all over christmas as a determined Worthington and Skipper landed their man. Staying top throughout the winter with some tremendously tough performances. Playing even better football in the spring scoring five at Burnley and putting another five passed Walsall, the Good Friday victory over Wigan that allowed the whole country to see the quality football and goals that we had been watching. And finally being at Crewe where we were already Champions and playing the football "Worthy" of Champions.

 

By winning the league by a large margin and being promoted by a huge margin. Yes Worthy won something. A trophy of prestige and one to celebrate. The end result is promotion whether you finish 25 points off top but win the play-offs or win the league by 8 points so yes, I suppose there are some similarities hidden there, but not a lot of difference?? get real!

 

And then in the Premier League there''s another great difference between the memories we have and the memories Watford fans have. We played some marvelous football at times and took some right pastings at others. But we were never really adrift at the bottom, we never accepted relegation and we always tried to play our football. Watford never beat anyone of any note and never made an attempt to stay up. They accepted relegation from day one. At least we have that victory against Man U to remember. But ultimately the record books will show that both sides were relegated. So there''s your similarities again... but not a lot of difference??.. Yeah right Cam!

 

Maybe there''s not a lot of difference between Boothroyds two clubs, Watford and Colchester and I reckon your Aidy, just like your Lambo would jump ship tomorrow if he got the chance to come here. But Worthy is streets ahead of the pair of them on what he has achieved. But back to topic - was Lambert preferable to Boothroyd? I reckon ... because at the moment all Aidy''s got is Lambo''s scraps.[&]

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

The issue on this thread is more about Boothroyd and Lambert rather than Boothroyd and Worthington.  You do have a point about the records for Boothroyd and Worthington.  They did take different clubs up playing in different grounds with different supporters playing different football and got different numbers of points.  So would you like to give us any other manager with a more similar record to Worthington''s than Boothroyds in recent years?

The last thing that I would want to do is rubbish your hero''s accomplishments at our club.  I was at the games that you rattled off as well.  I can remember the game at Burnley when we played with a defence that looked about as leaky as the one that started this season but had an attack and midfield that was simply brimming with goals.  The promotion season was one of my highlights as a Canaries supporter. I have some fond memeories of the season in the Premier League but for me it was a season of frustration.  Having been streets ahead of the pack in the Championship, we managed to finish below both of the clubs who went up behind us!  When we went up we looked like a club that was equiped to give it a go in the top division.  We simply failed to build on the wonderful platform that Worthy had built for us in the Championship.  We''ll all have our views about why that was.  My personal view (and I suspect that this will be different to Nutty''s!) is that we made mistakes in not getting enough quality into the squad and when we did (Ashton) it was too late.  We also removed some of the real characters from the squad (Ewen and Malky) before the season started and that seemed to take some of the spirit out of the club.  It is from that point where this slide into the pit that we now sit began.

The point that I would make about both Worthy and Boothroyd is that they have both had real success at one club side, taking them into the top division.  There are plenty of other managers who manage this but then can''t replicate it somewhere else.  With some managers it seems to be a case of right place, right time, right board, right players and things just click.  Put the same bloke into a different scenario and it often just doesn''t happen.  (Just look at Mike Walker).  I suspect that Boothroyd will be one of those managers who has had his moment of glory and will get bits of success but at a lower level.  The knack for football clubs is getting that right person for them at the right time.  Up until now we''ve not exactly had a good success rate in recent times!  We can only hope that Lambert is the right person at the right time.  My feeling is that Lambert is on his way up (a bit like Worthy when he joined us) while Boothroyd is someone on his way down.  I hope I''m right but time (and results) will tell! 

 

[nutty nigel 7,555]

What a sarcastic post Dronny.

The big difference between Watfords and our promotion was the fact we won the league by 8 points and they came third 25 points behind the champions. Winning leagues is what matters in football. Norwich City have only achieved this four times in their history so it has to be special don''t you think? Just because clubs can now come 6th and still be promoted should not take away from the achievement of winning the league. It''s not about different grounds or different numbers of points.. it''s about winning that trophy ahead of the 23 other clubs in the competition. For some clubs short term success can be avoiding relegation, improving on their previous seasons position right up to making the play offs and finishing second. But the real success of any season is to finish first. To win your league and have all your competitors beneath you. Top of the tree.. top of the pile... there''s nothing like it for managers, players and fans alike. Dwelling on the point that we conceded 3 goals at Burnley is a bit poor really don''t you think?  We comfortably conceded fewer goals than any other side that season and finished with a goal difference of +40 which was a massive 18 more than anyone else could manage.

Your point about not getting enough quality into the squad and signing Ashton too late is one that Worthington made long before you. Had we have signed Ashton or even Crouch in the August all the other criticisms would never have surfaced because I believe we would have stayed up comfortably. How many of those draws in the first part of the season would have been turned to wins? As for Malky and Iwan, two more heroes, do you honestly believe they would have gained us any more points? Iwan''s great career was over and Malky was only good enough to play in the prem for a team who wanted to be relegated. That does not devalue anything they achieved for us though.

Don''t you have any hero''s from the history of the club you support Dronny?

For what it''s worth I agree that Lambert looks like he''s on the way up while Boothroyd is on the way down. The appointment of Lambert, a young hungry manager with ambition, reminds me of the appointments of Saunders, Bond and O''Neill. Colchester will look at Aidy''s past achievements and believe they got the better deal. We would if we were in their shoes. Most fans look for the positives in support of their clubs. That''s why I find it incredible that some will put a negative spin on some of their own clubs greatest achievements.

 

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Nutty mate, if we go up via the play offs and Leeds go up winning the league, will you be complaining? At the end of the day promotion is promotion, watford done it on a tiniest of budgets.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Frank"] So why didn''t we just get Boothroyd?[/quote]

Because Adie Boothroyd is an over rated hoofball merchant.... as soon as he was given money at Watford and his own squad he took them down, then very nearly took them down again.. the blokes a crapp manager and this will be found out before long

 

[Dronny Canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

What a sarcastic post Dronny.

The big difference between Watfords and our promotion was the fact we won the league by 8 points and they came third 25 points behind the champions. Winning leagues is what matters in football. Norwich City have only achieved this four times in their history so it has to be special don''t you think? Just because clubs can now come 6th and still be promoted should not take away from the achievement of winning the league. It''s not about different grounds or different numbers of points.. it''s about winning that trophy ahead of the 23 other clubs in the competition. For some clubs short term success can be avoiding relegation, improving on their previous seasons position right up to making the play offs and finishing second. But the real success of any season is to finish first. To win your league and have all your competitors beneath you. Top of the tree.. top of the pile... there''s nothing like it for managers, players and fans alike. Dwelling on the point that we conceded 3 goals at Burnley is a bit poor really don''t you think?  We comfortably conceded fewer goals than any other side that season and finished with a goal difference of +40 which was a massive 18 more than anyone else could manage.

Your point about not getting enough quality into the squad and signing Ashton too late is one that Worthington made long before you. Had we have signed Ashton or even Crouch in the August all the other criticisms would never have surfaced because I believe we would have stayed up comfortably. How many of those draws in the first part of the season would have been turned to wins? As for Malky and Iwan, two more heroes, do you honestly believe they would have gained us any more points? Iwan''s great career was over and Malky was only good enough to play in the prem for a team who wanted to be relegated. That does not devalue anything they achieved for us though.

Don''t you have any hero''s from the history of the club you support Dronny?

For what it''s worth I agree that Lambert looks like he''s on the way up while Boothroyd is on the way down. The appointment of Lambert, a young hungry manager with ambition, reminds me of the appointments of Saunders, Bond and O''Neill. Colchester will look at Aidy''s past achievements and believe they got the better deal. We would if we were in their shoes. Most fans look for the positives in support of their clubs. That''s why I find it incredible that some will put a negative spin on some of their own clubs greatest achievements.

 

[/quote]

I have plenty of heros from 50 years of supporting the club thank-you Nigel.  Perhaps the difference is that I don''t see them all through the rose tinted specs that you use.  I''m just expressing an opinion and there was no sarcasm intended at any point.  You seem very touchy about this!

As to your points:

Yes, Watford did creep up while we breezed in with all guns blazing.  Perhaps you could take that into account when judging Boothroyd''s achievements in the Prem.  He went up with a far weaker team than us.  Perhaps that''s why he was at the bottom of the league all season.  How about my other point?  We went up as clearly the best team in the Champ yet next season the two teams that finished below us were above us in the Prem.  Yes, that included the team that finished 6th in the Champ 20+ points behind us!  Suggests they were better managed doesn''t it?

My point about Ewen and Malky was more about their presence at the club.  They could have managed at best a few bit part contributions in the Prem but they were characters who may have done something for team spirit around the squad.  In the years since then a lack of leadership and character on the pitch has been a real issue, especially when we''ve been up against it.

I feel that Worthy did a fantastic job in pulling the club together and getting us promoted.  At that point the club was set up to consolidate and move forwards.  Instead we missed the boat and look at where we are now!  Getting promoted in the way we did was one of our greatest achievements.  Our one season in the Prem and our ultimate farcical capitulation on the last day, for me, wasn''t.  It was fun getting there but we could and should have stayed up.  

[nutty nigel 7,555]

[quote user="Sir Arthur Whittle"]Nutty mate, if we go up via the play offs and Leeds go up winning the league, will you be complaining? At the end of the day promotion is promotion, watford done it on a tiniest of budgets.[/quote]

No I won''t be complaining. And I haven''t been complaining. Had we gone up via the play offs in 2002 it would have been a great achievement worth celebrating even though we finished 6th. It just wouldn''t have been comparable to winning the league and being champions. To win your league is the ultimate achievement in any season. there is nothing above that to win. It makes you the best. It''s not the same as promotion.

 

[nutty nigel 7,555]

Maybe we could and should have stayed up Dronny. But we didn''t. Your criticism about getting a quality striker in at the start of the season is something that you, I and Worthy all agree with. You choose to blame him and I don''t. I''m afraid we will have to agree to differ.

 

[Mello Yello 2,298]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe we could and should have stayed up Dronny. But we didn''t. Your criticism about getting a quality striker in at the start of the season is something that you, I and Worthy all agree with. You choose to blame him and I don''t. I''m afraid we will have to agree to differ.

 

[/quote]

Who was to blame then?

[nutty nigel 7,555]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe we could and should have stayed up Dronny. But we didn''t. Your criticism about getting a quality striker in at the start of the season is something that you, I and Worthy all agree with. You choose to blame him and I don''t. I''m afraid we will have to agree to differ.

 

[/quote]

Who was to blame then?

[/quote]

Whoever you want to blame I guess Mello. But I don''t see how it was Worthy. You''re good at the blame game.. who do you blame?

Sometimes we don''t get what we want and there''s nobody to blame.. we have to grin and bear it.

 

[Mello Yello 2,298]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe we could and should have stayed up Dronny. But we didn''t. Your criticism about getting a quality striker in at the start of the season is something that you, I and Worthy all agree with. You choose to blame him and I don''t. I''m afraid we will have to agree to differ.

 

[/quote]

Who was to blame then?

[/quote]

Whoever you want to blame I guess Mello. But I don''t see how it was Worthy. You''re good at the blame game.. who do you blame?

Sometimes we don''t get what we want and there''s nobody to blame.. we have to grin and bear it.

[/quote]

I''m good at the blame game....Ok, I blame the board at that time....Now, do you agree?

[Dronny Canary 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe we could and should have stayed up Dronny. But we didn''t. Your criticism about getting a quality striker in at the start of the season is something that you, I and Worthy all agree with. You choose to blame him and I don''t. I''m afraid we will have to agree to differ.

 

[/quote]

Who was to blame then?

[/quote]

Whoever you want to blame I guess Mello. But I don''t see how it was Worthy. You''re good at the blame game.. who do you blame?

Sometimes we don''t get what we want and there''s nobody to blame.. we have to grin and bear it.

[/quote]

I''m good at the blame game....Ok, I blame the board at that time....Now, do you agree?

[/quote]

I don''t think "blame" is the right word.  We went up, we did our best, we weren''t good enough at all levels (board, players, manager, coaches).  That''s life.  What we do badly at this club is learning from our mistakes and the main fault there must be with those in ultimate control.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe we could and should have stayed up Dronny. But we didn''t. Your criticism about getting a quality striker in at the start of the season is something that you, I and Worthy all agree with. You choose to blame him and I don''t. I''m afraid we will have to agree to differ.

 

[/quote]

Who was to blame then?

[/quote]

Whoever you want to blame I guess Mello. But I don''t see how it was Worthy. You''re good at the blame game.. who do you blame?

Sometimes we don''t get what we want and there''s nobody to blame.. we have to grin and bear it.

[/quote]

I''m good at the blame game....Ok, I blame the board at that time....Now, do you agree?

[/quote]

Pretty much Mello. I can''t be bothered to type it all out again but what i think is all here: -

http://www.pinkun.com/cs_pinkun/cs/forums/2/805748/ShowPost.aspx#805748

Do you now agree with that?

 

[nutty nigel 7,555]

I''d just like to add that despite his hands being tied Worthy still managed to bring Dion Dublin to the club rather than one of those six-foot three strikers he refused to sign. Those who still refuse to recognise this I''m afraid are guilty of looking back with glasses tinted with something other than roses.

 

[ron obvious 1,514]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe we could and should have stayed up Dronny. But we didn''t. Your criticism about getting a quality striker in at the start of the season is something that you, I and Worthy all agree with. You choose to blame him and I don''t. I''m afraid we will have to agree to differ.

 

[/quote]

Who was to blame then?

[/quote]

Whoever you want to blame I guess Mello. But I don''t see how it was Worthy. You''re good at the blame game.. who do you blame?

Sometimes we don''t get what we want and there''s nobody to blame.. we have to grin and bear it.

[/quote]

Here''s a thought: perhaps the Board reckoned that they couldn''t afford to stay up? That the cost of paying prem. players wages & the associated costs could never be covered by income?It would explain why they didn''t seem to try very hard.

[Dronny Canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''d just like to add that despite his hands being tied Worthy still managed to bring Dion Dublin to the club rather than one of those six-foot three strikers he refused to sign. Those who still refuse to recognise this I''m afraid are guilty of looking back with glasses tinted with something other than roses.

 

[/quote]

I''ll completely change my assessment of Worthy on the basis of that one!  Try rearranging these words into a well-known phrase "at", "straws", "clutching"!

[Mello Yello 2,298]

[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe we could and should have stayed up Dronny. But we didn''t. Your criticism about getting a quality striker in at the start of the season is something that you, I and Worthy all agree with. You choose to blame him and I don''t. I''m afraid we will have to agree to differ.

 

[/quote]

Who was to blame then?

[/quote]

Whoever you want to blame I guess Mello. But I don''t see how it was Worthy. You''re good at the blame game.. who do you blame?

Sometimes we don''t get what we want and there''s nobody to blame.. we have to grin and bear it.

[/quote]

Here''s a thought: perhaps the Board reckoned that they couldn''t afford to stay up? That the cost of paying prem. players wages & the associated costs could never be covered by income?

It would explain why they didn''t seem to try very hard.

[/quote]

Cynic that I am....There''s probably an element of truth in your comment. I also feel that maybe we''ve found ''our true level'' in the 1st Division. Pack the stadium with folk who are happy with whatever is going on on the turf. Not going to cost an arm and a leg to fund the football. Make the play-offs, falter....Oh well, maybe next season....etc etc....

Things may be changing at Carra.....but the attendances are fairly consistent regardless. Job done!

But, then there''s always that threat of administration.....

[nutty nigel 7,555]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

 

[Dronny Canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

 

[/quote]

It''s about balance Nigel.  Worthy did some great things for us when he was here.  He also fouled up as well.  Overall I''ve got great respect for the bloke but he played his part in us going up and coming down.  I''m quite happy to point the finger at the board in relation to mistakes they''ve made over the years.  Sometimes it just seems a case of Promotion = great manager, Relegation = cr*p board.  They both deserve a measure of praise and criticism.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

[quote user="Dronny Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

 

[/quote]

It''s about balance Nigel.  Worthy did some great things for us when he was here.  He also fouled up as well.  Overall I''ve got great respect for the bloke but he played his part in us going up and coming down.  I''m quite happy to point the finger at the board in relation to mistakes they''ve made over the years.  Sometimes it just seems a case of Promotion = great manager, Relegation = cr*p board.  They both deserve a measure of praise and criticism.

[/quote]

Balance is ok if it''s based on reality Dronny. Balance for balances sake is unfair. That''s what happens with scapegoats, they are conveniently blamed for everything that''s wrong. Of course Worthy made mistakes but they weren''t as many as it''s widely assumed. My Dion Dublin comment was made in the light of the circumstances he was signed. Worthy allowed the window to close without buying his much needed striker because he didn''t have the resources to buy a player capable of moving the club forward. Rather than waste the resources he did have he signed Dion Dublin. Dublin was the last decent striker we signed. (Hopefully Grant Holt will prove another). Subsequent managers then wasted their resources on the likes of Chris Brown, Jamie Cureton and a load of loan players.

To win the Championship in the style we did = great everything my friend. Fans were even "chucking their knickers" at Delia dear old ma! Relegation and disappointment = cr*p everything and keep renewing the scapegoat until somethingh good happens. It''s been a long wait[O]

 

[Dronny Canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Dronny Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

 

[/quote]

It''s about balance Nigel.  Worthy did some great things for us when he was here.  He also fouled up as well.  Overall I''ve got great respect for the bloke but he played his part in us going up and coming down.  I''m quite happy to point the finger at the board in relation to mistakes they''ve made over the years.  Sometimes it just seems a case of Promotion = great manager, Relegation = cr*p board.  They both deserve a measure of praise and criticism.

[/quote]

Balance is ok if it''s based on reality Dronny. Balance for balances sake is unfair. That''s what happens with scapegoats, they are conveniently blamed for everything that''s wrong. Of course Worthy made mistakes but they weren''t as many as it''s widely assumed. My Dion Dublin comment was made in the light of the circumstances he was signed. Worthy allowed the window to close without buying his much needed striker because he didn''t have the resources to buy a player capable of moving the club forward. Rather than waste the resources he did have he signed Dion Dublin. Dublin was the last decent striker we signed. (Hopefully Grant Holt will prove another). Subsequent managers then wasted their resources on the likes of Chris Brown, Jamie Cureton and a load of loan players.

To win the Championship in the style we did = great everything my friend. Fans were even "chucking their knickers" at Delia dear old ma! Relegation and disappointment = cr*p everything and keep renewing the scapegoat until somethingh good happens. It''s been a long wait[O]

 

[/quote]

The long wait has obviously dulled your memory.  The promotion season was fantastic but after that it was downhill and lets not just make the board the scapegoat for that my friend.  You can only bask for so long in one cherished memory.  Your veneer of objectivity doesn''t really paper over the cracks that most of us saw in Worthy''s final seasons.  If he was so great then why not the long queue of top club teams waiting to employ him?  Perhaps you could give him a reference!

[nutty nigel 7,555]

[quote user="Dronny Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Dronny Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

 

[/quote]

It''s about balance Nigel.  Worthy did some great things for us when he was here.  He also fouled up as well.  Overall I''ve got great respect for the bloke but he played his part in us going up and coming down.  I''m quite happy to point the finger at the board in relation to mistakes they''ve made over the years.  Sometimes it just seems a case of Promotion = great manager, Relegation = cr*p board.  They both deserve a measure of praise and criticism.

[/quote]

Balance is ok if it''s based on reality Dronny. Balance for balances sake is unfair. That''s what happens with scapegoats, they are conveniently blamed for everything that''s wrong. Of course Worthy made mistakes but they weren''t as many as it''s widely assumed. My Dion Dublin comment was made in the light of the circumstances he was signed. Worthy allowed the window to close without buying his much needed striker because he didn''t have the resources to buy a player capable of moving the club forward. Rather than waste the resources he did have he signed Dion Dublin. Dublin was the last decent striker we signed. (Hopefully Grant Holt will prove another). Subsequent managers then wasted their resources on the likes of Chris Brown, Jamie Cureton and a load of loan players.

To win the Championship in the style we did = great everything my friend. Fans were even "chucking their knickers" at Delia dear old ma! Relegation and disappointment = cr*p everything and keep renewing the scapegoat until somethingh good happens. It''s been a long wait[O]

 

[/quote]

The long wait has obviously dulled your memory.  The promotion season was fantastic but after that it was downhill and lets not just make the board the scapegoat for that my friend.  You can only bask for so long in one cherished memory.  Your veneer of objectivity doesn''t really paper over the cracks that most of us saw in Worthy''s final seasons.  If he was so great then why not the long queue of top club teams waiting to employ him?  Perhaps you could give him a reference!

[/quote]

The employment Worthy has had since he was sacked has been much to do with what Worthy wanted. He was at Leicester and completed a temporary job for Mandaric and now he''s manager of his country and doing rather well. Most people would look on those as achievements if they didn''t have another agenda.

We are going to have to agree to disagree I''m afraid Dronny. I''m quite happy to debate the cracks that you saw in Worthy after he won the Championship and I have tried on here. If your argument is "because I said so" then it''s a waste of both our times.

 

[Fuglestad 0]

[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe we could and should have stayed up Dronny. But we didn''t. Your criticism about getting a quality striker in at the start of the season is something that you, I and Worthy all agree with. You choose to blame him and I don''t. I''m afraid we will have to agree to differ.

 

[/quote]

Who was to blame then?

[/quote]

Whoever you want to blame I guess Mello. But I don''t see how it was Worthy. You''re good at the blame game.. who do you blame?

Sometimes we don''t get what we want and there''s nobody to blame.. we have to grin and bear it.

[/quote]

Here''s a thought: perhaps the Board reckoned that they couldn''t afford to stay up? That the cost of paying prem. players wages & the associated costs could never be covered by income?

It would explain why they didn''t seem to try very hard.



[/quote]

Wow. That is truly stunning. Yes the board got us relegated becuase they couldn''t afford to rake in tens of millions every year. That is beyond stupid.

[Dronny Canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Dronny Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Dronny Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

 

[/quote]

It''s about balance Nigel.  Worthy did some great things for us when he was here.  He also fouled up as well.  Overall I''ve got great respect for the bloke but he played his part in us going up and coming down.  I''m quite happy to point the finger at the board in relation to mistakes they''ve made over the years.  Sometimes it just seems a case of Promotion = great manager, Relegation = cr*p board.  They both deserve a measure of praise and criticism.

[/quote]

Balance is ok if it''s based on reality Dronny. Balance for balances sake is unfair. That''s what happens with scapegoats, they are conveniently blamed for everything that''s wrong. Of course Worthy made mistakes but they weren''t as many as it''s widely assumed. My Dion Dublin comment was made in the light of the circumstances he was signed. Worthy allowed the window to close without buying his much needed striker because he didn''t have the resources to buy a player capable of moving the club forward. Rather than waste the resources he did have he signed Dion Dublin. Dublin was the last decent striker we signed. (Hopefully Grant Holt will prove another). Subsequent managers then wasted their resources on the likes of Chris Brown, Jamie Cureton and a load of loan players.

To win the Championship in the style we did = great everything my friend. Fans were even "chucking their knickers" at Delia dear old ma! Relegation and disappointment = cr*p everything and keep renewing the scapegoat until somethingh good happens. It''s been a long wait[O]

 

[/quote]

The long wait has obviously dulled your memory.  The promotion season was fantastic but after that it was downhill and lets not just make the board the scapegoat for that my friend.  You can only bask for so long in one cherished memory.  Your veneer of objectivity doesn''t really paper over the cracks that most of us saw in Worthy''s final seasons.  If he was so great then why not the long queue of top club teams waiting to employ him?  Perhaps you could give him a reference!

[/quote]

The employment Worthy has had since he was sacked has been much to do with what Worthy wanted. He was at Leicester and completed a temporary job for Mandaric and now he''s manager of his country and doing rather well. Most people would look on those as achievements if they didn''t have another agenda.

We are going to have to agree to disagree I''m afraid Dronny. I''m quite happy to debate the cracks that you saw in Worthy after he won the Championship and I have tried on here. If your argument is "because I said so" then it''s a waste of both our times.

 

[/quote]

Nigel I support the club and I don''t have any agenda in favour of or against anyone - players, managers, board members.  Don''t try smearing me with that brush just because you disagree with my opinions - that''s a bit low.  I call it how I see it.  You are the one who seems to have an "agenda" or perhaps should we say "obsession".  You seem to be falling into the same trap as some of the posters on here who try to make out that Bryan Gunn was a good manager who was just badly treated by the board.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

The thing is Dronny - this is a discussion board where we discuss and debate our opinions. Why is that low?

Oh and for the record my opinion on Bryan Gunn is that he was a poor manager, probably the worst in my time as a supporter, but was badly treated by the board..... at least twice! Would you like to debate that?

 

[Dronny Canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

The thing is Dronny - this is a discussion board where we discuss and debate our opinions. Why is that low?

Oh and for the record my opinion on Bryan Gunn is that he was a poor manager, probably the worst in my time as a supporter, but was badly treated by the board..... at least twice! Would you like to debate that?

 

[/quote]

On this, as about most things, we agree Nigel.  Perhaps we both need to get a life!

[ron obvious 1,514]

[quote user="Fuglestad"][quote user="ron obvious"]

Here''s a thought: perhaps the Board reckoned that they couldn''t afford to stay up? That the cost of paying prem. players wages & the associated costs could never be covered by income?It would explain why they didn''t seem to try very hard.

[/quote]

Wow. That is truly stunning. Yes the board got us relegated becuase they couldn''t afford to rake in tens of millions every year. That is beyond stupid.

[/quote]I think you''ll find it doesn''t work quite as easily as that. Perhaps if NCFC could have stayed up for a few years it might have repayed the initial outlay, but there''s no guarantees.I''m not saying they were right, just trying to find reasons for their actions.

[Mello Yello 2,298]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

[/quote]

Can''t be bothered, because it involves getting into a tiresome debate with you......and ends up like a dog chasing its tail.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

[/quote]

Can''t be bothered, because it involves getting into a tiresome debate with you......and ends up like a dog chasing its tail.

[/quote]

Tail chasing is normal for excited and playful puppies or kittens. However, it can also be a sign of itching and inflammation at the base of the tail, lower back, or anus caused by allergies, liver disease, fleas, or anal sac disease. Tail chasing can also be the start of a compulsive disorder.

You can probably get tablets for it though [&]

 

[Mello Yello 2,298]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

[/quote]

Can''t be bothered, because it involves getting into a tiresome debate with you......and ends up like a dog chasing its tail.

[/quote]

Tail chasing is normal for excited and playful puppies or kittens. However, it can also be a sign of itching and inflammation at the base of the tail, lower back, or anus caused by allergies, liver disease, fleas, or anal sac disease. Tail chasing can also be the start of a compulsive disorder.

You can probably get tablets for it though [&]

 

[/quote]

Self diagnosis is it?

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Dronny.. Dion subsequently won the Barry Butler. How many players that were signed after Worthy won it? Why is it clutching at straws to recognise things people do well?

And mello.. I answered your question, how about you answer mine?

[/quote]

Can''t be bothered, because it involves getting into a tiresome debate with you......and ends up like a dog chasing its tail.

[/quote]

Tail chasing is normal for excited and playful puppies or kittens. However, it can also be a sign of itching and inflammation at the base of the tail, lower back, or anus caused by allergies, liver disease, fleas, or anal sac disease. Tail chasing can also be the start of a compulsive disorder.

You can probably get tablets for it though [&]

 

[/quote]

Self diagnosis is it?

[/quote]

I think that Nutty proved your point perfectly there Mello... [Y] [:D]

For what it''s worth I think that Nutty raises many valid points about Worthy, but this usually gets lost because he will not have a single word said against him.  Shame really, because Worthy was undoubtedly one of the top 5 or so managers that Norwich have ever had.  As to whether he could of done better had the board of funded some of the signings he wanted to make when we wanted to sign them we will never know.

Getting shot of Malky and Iwan had to be Worthy''s biggest mistakes in my opinion, followed by playing Gary Holt for most of the Premiership season.  I think that Worthy himself would admit that getting shot of Malky and Iwan were possible errors if he answered with honesty today.  I said that Malky was a mistake at the time, but I too would of got shot of Iwan at the time but for the last few years have wondered if Iwan''s 10 or 20 mins from the bench could of produced the goal or two that may of seen us stay up.  With the benefit of hindsight I can see that both myself and Worthy were probably wrong with our views on getting shot of Iwan in the way that he did.

As for Lambert v Boothroyd only time will tell.  How do we judge it though?  Norwich City should be achieving more than Colchester Utd, but circumstances are currently very difficult at Carrow Road and as yet Lambert is waiting for some money to spend to add to the squad to make it capable of achieving promotion.  Boothroyd on the other hand is taking over a team that Lambert has built and one which I fancied to put in a promotion challenge through the play-offs before a ball was kicked this season.  If Lambert does get money to spend and gets us promoted and then recieves more money from new investment coming iu to the club then it would be difficult to judge what Boothroyd might achieve at Colchester in comparison.

I think both are good managers at this level but am glad that we have Lambert out of the two of them.