Jump to content
Note to existing users - password reset is required Read more... ×
Sign in to follow this  
Felixfan

Sothampton decision deferred

Recommended Posts

According to the football league site a decision has been deferred pending urgent forensic accountancy reports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Felixfan"]

According to the football league site a decision has been deferred pending urgent forensic accountancy reports.

[/quote]

Do you have a link?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Felixfan"]

According to the football league site a decision has been deferred pending urgent forensic accountancy reports.

[/quote]so they are going to do some digging before making a decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think this strongly suggests that they will be docked points. The leagues credibility is on the line,so many clubs have been docked points over recent years it would be unfair for this not to happen to Southampton.This probably is worse for them than any other decision as it will not help them finding new owners whith this uncertainty hanging over them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They cannot let this drag on for weeks. It needs to be sorted asap so everyone knows where they stand. can''t believe there is even a question mark over it. I only hope they are doing this as the FL wants to ensure it has a watertight position when it docks the points!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it''s just the football league bottling the decision and hoping that Southampton get relegated anyway so that any decision they make will be irrelevant.

Southampton have found a loophole that will now be closed but if Southampton stay up and then the Football League deduct 10 points it will lead to a long unseemly court case that football just does not need.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Felixfan"]

According to the football league site a decision has been deferred pending urgent forensic accountancy reports.

[/quote]

 

Sounds like a job for Mr Carra and the G.O.F.P.A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="singing canary"]have they given a time scale on this ..??[/quote]

No timescale, the Football League are just hoping that Southampton get relegated and any decision they make will therefore be irrelevant!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
if they get relegated there will doubtless be some League One clubs (think Leeds for a start if they don''t go up!) arguing that Southampton should start next year with a point deduction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="canarychris"]

[quote user="singing canary"]have they given a time scale on this ..??[/quote]

No timescale, the Football League are just hoping that Southampton get relegated and any decision they make will therefore be irrelevant!!!

[/quote]Yes spot on , once they are certain to go down the league will dock them 10 points , stay up and there will either be no action or 10 points deducted next season .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any ten-point penalty will apply THIS season if it makes the difference between survival and relegation, or NEXT season if it does not.

Those things are cast in stone. What is NOT cast in stone is what the League can do if a holding company goes into admin, but the club itself does not. I suspect, very strongly, that the current rules, as they are written, say nothing about a parent company or holding company going into administration. When these rules were drawn up, the FA failed to hire a "what-about-this?" person - very few businesses ever do hire him, but he''s the most important planning person there is. His sole job is to look at the completed plan and think "what if X happens? Your plan doesn''t cover that."

My guess is that they''ve called this inquiry as a stalling tactic because they desperately want to be able to dock ten points, but they aren''t sure of their legal ground. If the existing rules do NOT say anything about holding companies, then Southampton cannot be docked points unless (a) the FL change the rules before the end of this season, and (b) all 72 clubs - Saints included - agree to the change.

As a non-Saints fan of a club that has never (yet!) been in admin, it''s easy for me to say this; it might be different if NCFC were under the hammer. But I think the Saints must take a 10-point penalty if the League is not to be made to look idiots. If legal advice is that a penalty would not hold up in court, you can bet your life savings that the rules will be changed before next season so that in future it will do. If Saints escape punishment, every single club will be owned by a holding company within 48 hours, and the rules will have to be changed anyway.

The noble thing for Southampton to do at this point would be to announce publicly that they expect, accept, and will not challenge a 10-point deduction and that they''re giving the FA a written guarantee to that effect. However, a football club is a business, not a Knight of the Round Table. There is no good reason for them to act nobly when they''re busy trying to stay out of bankruptcy, and I will not criticise them for not doing so. If my club were in this position, I''d damn sure be screaming at them to do whatever they could to - legitimately - try to avoid it.

To summarise, no news is very much good news for Saints fans. If the League knew they were covered by the rules, they''d have announced a 10-point deduction today. They have not done so, which means they''re not sure they can enforce it under these circumstances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have finally found the rules . I think the problem is what is a Club and who are members of the football league.

 

I agree the delay is the league trying to ensure that any penalty imposed is watertight!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Iwan is God"]

Any ten-point penalty will apply THIS season if it makes the difference between survival and relegation, or NEXT season if it does not.

Those things are cast in stone. What is NOT cast in stone is what the League can do if a holding company goes into admin, but the club itself does not. I suspect, very strongly, that the current rules, as they are written, say nothing about a parent company or holding company going into administration. When these rules were drawn up, the FA failed to hire a "what-about-this?" person - very few businesses ever do hire him, but he''s the most important planning person there is. His sole job is to look at the completed plan and think "what if X happens? Your plan doesn''t cover that."

My guess is that they''ve called this inquiry as a stalling tactic because they desperately want to be able to dock ten points, but they aren''t sure of their legal ground. If the existing rules do NOT say anything about holding companies, then Southampton cannot be docked points unless (a) the FL change the rules before the end of this season, and (b) all 72 clubs - Saints included - agree to the change.

As a non-Saints fan of a club that has never (yet!) been in admin, it''s easy for me to say this; it might be different if NCFC were under the hammer. But I think the Saints must take a 10-point penalty if the League is not to be made to look idiots. If legal advice is that a penalty would not hold up in court, you can bet your life savings that the rules will be changed before next season so that in future it will do. If Saints escape punishment, every single club will be owned by a holding company within 48 hours, and the rules will have to be changed anyway.

The noble thing for Southampton to do at this point would be to announce publicly that they expect, accept, and will not challenge a 10-point deduction and that they''re giving the FA a written guarantee to that effect. However, a football club is a business, not a Knight of the Round Table. There is no good reason for them to act nobly when they''re busy trying to stay out of bankruptcy, and I will not criticise them for not doing so. If my club were in this position, I''d damn sure be screaming at them to do whatever they could to - legitimately - try to avoid it.

To summarise, no news is very much good news for Saints fans. If the League knew they were covered by the rules, they''d have announced a 10-point deduction today. They have not done so, which means they''re not sure they can enforce it under these circumstances.

[/quote]

Some very good points but you forget one important point: it is no longer in the hands of Southampton football club to make a noble decision even if they wished to do so.  They are in the hands of their Administrators.  The Administrators are on record as saying that if a 10 point deduction is made - now or while they are under Administration - he will challenge it in the High Court and/or Appeal Court.  This is not something they are doing from a football aspect, about which they couldn''t care less (and aren''t allowed to anyway): they are approaching this from an accountancy viewpoint and the effect a points deduction might possibly have on a sale price.

All decisions, noble or ignoble, are now down to the Joint Administrators, not Southampton Football Club and that must remain while they are in administration.

Quote from a joint administrator this afternoon:

Mark Fry, the Joint Administrator to Southampton Leisure Holdings plc, said: "Subject to the scope of the report we welcome the Football League’s initiative in commissioning an independent report ahead of any decision being made on the possibility of a ten-point deduction.

"In our view this indicates that the situation will be reviewed thoroughly and independently and we are confident of a successful outcome because in our view no rules have been breached.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Jim Smith"]

Sorry:

http://www.football-league.co.uk/staticFiles/78/3/0,,10794~888,00.pdf

[/quote]Thanks Jim.This clause seems to be the crucial one:12.3.1 With effect from the 10th May 2004, if any Club shall: - a) have a manager, receiver or administrative receiver appointed in respect of that Club or any part of its undertaking or assets; There has to be some sense made of this otherwise, as has been said before, every league club will set up a holding company immediately.Southampton trying to get out of this makes not only the basic administration distasteful but the consequences that could let them get away with it very unpalatable indeed. It''s a loophole. The whole ''holding company'' set up is a loophole and very much against the spirit of the League.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no doubt they have tried to bend and beat the rules by having a holding company.

So in the spirit of the rules, the 10 points deduction should be immediate. As it stands it sounds like they are more likely yo go out of business altogether though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well chaps im going to tell you a few things that you may or may not know.

Southampton leisure holdings was formed in 1997 when it was listed on the stock exchange. Amongst owning the FC it owns the Stadium as well and in recent years has owned a radio station and insurance company. So its solely not was not just set up to run the FC. It was also clearly not set up to ''exploit'' any loophole as points deductions didnt even exist then !

I presume you are aware that Norwich City FC is owned by a holding company called Norwich City Football Club PLC.

Not only you are a owned by a holding company many clubs are indeed esp in the PL.

I can also think of Ipswich, charlton, Plymouth, Forest, Wolves, Sheff Utd of the top of my head in the Champ that are owned by holding companies. .

 

 

PS

Its highly unlikely we will stay up anyway so no need to get so worked up.

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That''ll be ''Saints'' Radio would it?No correlation there then...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="LQ"]That''ll be ''Saints'' Radio would it?

No correlation there then...


[/quote]

 

Immaterial on what it was called and having the same name means nothing im afraid.

Again the radio station was set up several years ago.

 

Anyone saying we have exploited some loophole is hilarious as it was set up in 1997 !

What are the football league going to do tell all the clubs that are owned by holding companies and whose shares are divided all over the place shutdown !

  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="UTS"]

Well chaps im going to tell you a few things that you may or may not know.

Southampton leisure holdings was formed in 1997 when it was listed on the stock exchange. Amongst owning the FC it owns the Stadium as well and in recent years has owned a radio station and insurance company. So its solely not was not just set up to run the FC. It was also clearly not set up to ''exploit'' any loophole as points deductions didnt even exist then !

I presume you are aware that Norwich City FC is owned by a holding company called Norwich City Football Club PLC.

Not only you are a owned by a holding company many clubs are indeed esp in the PL.

I can also think of Ipswich, charlton, Plymouth, Forest, Wolves, Sheff Utd of the top of my head in the Champ that are owned by holding companies. .

 

S

Its highly unlikely we will stay up anyway so no need to get so worked up.

  

[/quote]

 

I don''t deny many clubs are owned by a holding company. Point is that if that holding company is, in essence, the football club which your clearly is then that company going bust should trigger the 10 point penalty. Norwich City Football Club PLC is Norwich City Football Club and I would say the same if it was us or anyone else.

It may not have been set up with a view to bending the rules but that is clearly what lowe has tried to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="UTS"]

[quote user="LQ"]That''ll be ''Saints'' Radio would it?

No correlation there then...


[/quote]

 

Immaterial on what it was called and having the same name means nothing im afraid.

Again the radio station was set up several years ago.

 

Anyone saying we have exploited some loophole is hilarious as it was set up in 1997 !

What are the football league going to do tell all the clubs that are owned by holding companies and whose shares are divided all over the place shutdown !

  

 

[/quote]

 

You are trying to exploit a loophole - there is no other way of looking at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It''s not immaterial what it''s called actually.It is obviously trading off the name of the football club. THE football club that all this mess is about!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bloody loophole my arse.  The FL makes the rules, if each club employ law experts (like us) to work around them, that''s business.  When our club set up Eventguard to ''get around the rules/laws'' I didn''t read any objections.  Southampton are just working the system,  if anyone wants to grumble they should do it to the FL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exploiting a loophole ?

I just explained that the hodling company was set up in 1997 thats 12 years ago ! 

There was no points deduction going on then.

SLH also owns a a property company as well which owns a significal pile of land.

You chaps need to get a grip on what a holding company is all about.

If the holding company was set up after relegation or indeed in the last 12 months then THAT would indeed be trying to exploit the situation.

I dont think the directors where looking for a loophole when their share values of £2m, £1.6m, £1.4m a number of £500K+ went up in smoke. Admin was the last thing they would of wanted losing all that dough !

Instead of crying about us you should be not trying to exploit the situation as it was not SFC that has put you in the bottom six of the league fighting relegation.

Do not forget that you where saved from admin and 10 points deduction recently and it may still well happen in months to come.

 

Adios canaries

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×