BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted March 29, 2009 Top 10 by this measure. Qualification - minimum 15 appearances.Name Appearances % Clean SheetsChris Woods 43 60.5Paul Robinson 41 58.3 David Seaman 75 54.1Peter Shilton 125 52.8Nigel Martin 23 52.2 Gordon Banks 73 48.0Frank Swift 19 47.4Ray Clemence 61 44.3David James 47 40.0Henry Hibbs (1929-36) 25 40.0 Robinson or James - interesting, eh?Among those with less than 15 appearances, the following post-war keepers also had excellent records on this measure:Peter Bonetti 7/71.4Tim Flowers 11/54.6Joe Corrigan 9/44.4and last but not least one would have to sayIan Walker 4/75.0The source: http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamGkprs/GkprsMstApps.htmlOTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
missing in action? 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]Top 10 by this measure. Qualification - minimum 15 appearances.Name Appearances % Clean SheetsChris Woods 43 60.5Paul Robinson 41 58.3 David Seaman 75 54.1Peter Shilton 125 52.8Nigel Martin 23 52.2 Gordon Banks 73 48.0Frank Swift 19 47.4Ray Clemence 61 44.3David James 47 40.0Henry Hibbs (1929-36) 25 40.0 Robinson or James - interesting, eh?Among those with less than 15 appearances, the following post-war keepers also had excellent records on this measure:Peter Bonetti 7/71.4Tim Flowers 11/54.6Joe Corrigan 9/44.4and last but not least one would have to sayIan Walker 4/75.0The source: http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamGkprs/GkprsMstApps.htmlOTBC [/quote]i was gonna say bonetti....but it is interesting, not that i think either james or robinson are good enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCFC_Shaun 0 Posted March 29, 2009 What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]Top 10 by this measure. Qualification - minimum 15 appearances.Name Appearances % Clean SheetsChris Woods 43 60.5Paul Robinson 41 58.3 David Seaman 75 54.1Peter Shilton 125 52.8Nigel Martin 23 52.2 Gordon Banks 73 48.0Frank Swift 19 47.4Ray Clemence 61 44.3David James 47 40.0Henry Hibbs (1929-36) 25 40.0 Robinson or James - interesting, eh?Among those with less than 15 appearances, the following post-war keepers also had excellent records on this measure:Peter Bonetti 7/71.4Tim Flowers 11/54.6Joe Corrigan 9/44.4and last but not least one would have to sayIan Walker 4/75.0The source: http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamGkprs/GkprsMstApps.htmlOTBC[/quote]Darn!! Sorry folks.But, apparently if you quote it the format will correct itself - for some reason certainly unbeknown to me!!And having spent a fair time collating the data, I''m thankful for small mercies.[:)]OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]How can facts be rubbish?Odd.Do you really think that Shilton, for example, didn''t make bloopers as bad as Robinson''s? Cameroon, Italy and Argentina in the World cup Finals ring a bell?OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I am a Banana 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]thats not corect ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJ 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]How can facts be rubbish?Odd.Do you really think that Shilton, for example, didn''t make bloopers as bad as Robinson''s? Cameroon, Italy and Argentina in the World cup Finals ring a bell?OTBC [/quote]These ones are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCFC_Shaun 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]How can facts be rubbish?Odd.Do you really think that Shilton, for example, didn''t make bloopers as bad as Robinson''s? Cameroon, Italy and Argentina in the World cup Finals ring a bell?OTBC [/quote]It''s not the facts that are rubbish, it''s what your trying to make from the facts - that is rubbish.This does not make Chris Woods England''s ''greatest ever keeper'' as the thread title suggests. It equally does not make this the top 10 England goalkeepers of all time. So no, the facts aren''t rubbish.As for ''do those games ring a bell''. Probably not, considering I''m assuming they occured before I was born. But the fact Shilton managed to keep the England number one jersey for 120-odd games, whereas Robinson has been thrown out of the picture after 40, kind of tells it''s own story. Do you not think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
missing in action? 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="NCFC_Shaun"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]How can facts be rubbish?Odd.Do you really think that Shilton, for example, didn''t make bloopers as bad as Robinson''s? Cameroon, Italy and Argentina in the World cup Finals ring a bell?OTBC [/quote]It''s not the facts that are rubbish, it''s what your trying to make from the facts - that is rubbish.This does not make Chris Woods England''s ''greatest ever keeper'' as the thread title suggests. It equally does not make this the top 10 England goalkeepers of all time. So no, the facts aren''t rubbish.As for ''do those games ring a bell''. Probably not, considering I''m assuming they occured before I was born. But the fact Shilton managed to keep the England number one jersey for 120-odd games, whereas Robinson has been thrown out of the picture after 40, kind of tells it''s own story. Do you not think?[/quote]who was shiltons competition?(just a question not a cynics response)and ok change the title...and bly is correct Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCFC_Shaun 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="missing in action"][quote user="NCFC_Shaun"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"] [quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]How can facts be rubbish?Odd.Do you really think that Shilton, for example, didn''t make bloopers as bad as Robinson''s? Cameroon, Italy and Argentina in the World cup Finals ring a bell?OTBC [/quote]It''s not the facts that are rubbish, it''s what your trying to make from the facts - that is rubbish.This does not make Chris Woods England''s ''greatest ever keeper'' as the thread title suggests. It equally does not make this the top 10 England goalkeepers of all time. So no, the facts aren''t rubbish.As for ''do those games ring a bell''. Probably not, considering I''m assuming they occured before I was born. But the fact Shilton managed to keep the England number one jersey for 120-odd games, whereas Robinson has been thrown out of the picture after 40, kind of tells it''s own story. Do you not think?[/quote]who was shiltons competition?(just a question not a cynics response)and ok change the title...and bly is correct[/quote] Not a clue. But Robinsons competition is David James, who appears to be worse than Robinson if we''re going by this [:^)] How does that one work out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
missing in action? 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="NCFC_Shaun"][quote user="missing in action"][quote user="NCFC_Shaun"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"] [quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]How can facts be rubbish?Odd.Do you really think that Shilton, for example, didn''t make bloopers as bad as Robinson''s? Cameroon, Italy and Argentina in the World cup Finals ring a bell?OTBC [/quote]It''s not the facts that are rubbish, it''s what your trying to make from the facts - that is rubbish.This does not make Chris Woods England''s ''greatest ever keeper'' as the thread title suggests. It equally does not make this the top 10 England goalkeepers of all time. So no, the facts aren''t rubbish.As for ''do those games ring a bell''. Probably not, considering I''m assuming they occured before I was born. But the fact Shilton managed to keep the England number one jersey for 120-odd games, whereas Robinson has been thrown out of the picture after 40, kind of tells it''s own story. Do you not think?[/quote]who was shiltons competition?(just a question not a cynics response)and ok change the title...and bly is correct[/quote]on average, james has been playing alot longer than robinson...so yeah it makes sense, obviously has no bearing on actual ability. that said i think foster is better than both of them. Not a clue. But Robinsons competition is David James, who appears to be worse than Robinson if we''re going by this [:^)] How does that one work out?[/quote] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
missing in action? 0 Posted March 29, 2009 cocked that up!on average, james has been playing alot longer than robinson...so yeahit makes sense, obviously has no bearing on actual ability. that said i think foster is better than both of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary_on_the Trent 0 Posted March 29, 2009 only Ray Clemence for over a decade, Bonetti for a few years early in the 70''s and Chris Woods during the late 80''s, you could also add in Joe Corrigan who was a very good keeper and late on in his career played a few games for us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Fish Seller 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="NCFC_Shaun"][quote user="missing in action"][quote user="NCFC_Shaun"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"] [quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]How can facts be rubbish?Odd.Do you really think that Shilton, for example, didn''t make bloopers as bad as Robinson''s? Cameroon, Italy and Argentina in the World cup Finals ring a bell?OTBC [/quote]It''s not the facts that are rubbish, it''s what your trying to make from the facts - that is rubbish.This does not make Chris Woods England''s ''greatest ever keeper'' as the thread title suggests. It equally does not make this the top 10 England goalkeepers of all time. So no, the facts aren''t rubbish.As for ''do those games ring a bell''. Probably not, considering I''m assuming they occured before I was born. But the fact Shilton managed to keep the England number one jersey for 120-odd games, whereas Robinson has been thrown out of the picture after 40, kind of tells it''s own story. Do you not think?[/quote]who was shiltons competition?(just a question not a cynics response)and ok change the title...and bly is correct[/quote] Not a clue. But Robinsons competition is David James, who appears to be worse than Robinson if we''re going by this [:^)] How does that one work out?[/quote]If it''s a serious question then the answer is both at Club level with Forest and national level with England ''Chris Woods''.You obviously are not aware that post Gordon Banks the two outstanding long term keepers for England were Shilton (debut circa 1970) and Clemence (debut circa 1972/3) with Shilts the senior of the pair. Whilst at Forest Shilts kept a young up and coming ''keeper by the name of Woods on the bench but Woods was actually debuted by Clough in the League cup which Forest actually won on a replay (2 clean sheets) because Shilton was cup-tied. Woods was always going to be no2 at Cloughs Forest so moved to 2nd div QPR as 1st choice then then us for about 1/4 million shortly after.A legend at Forest, Norwich and Glasgow Rangers, Woods''s International career remained in the shadow of Shilton (by now named tubby lardcake) who carried on playing and being selected far past his sell by date in many peoples opinions.Think of Greeno being kept out of England squad by James/Robinson although arguably better than either and you''ll understand the Woods/Shilton relationship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 0 Posted March 29, 2009 [quote user="NCFC_Shaun"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]How can facts be rubbish?Odd.Do you really think that Shilton, for example, didn''t make bloopers as bad as Robinson''s? Cameroon, Italy and Argentina in the World cup Finals ring a bell?OTBC [/quote]It''s not the facts that are rubbish, it''s what your trying to make from the facts - that is rubbish.This does not make Chris Woods England''s ''greatest ever keeper'' as the thread title suggests. It equally does not make this the top 10 England goalkeepers of all time. So no, the facts aren''t rubbish.As for ''do those games ring a bell''. Probably not, considering I''m assuming they occured before I was born. But the fact Shilton managed to keep the England number one jersey for 120-odd games, whereas Robinson has been thrown out of the picture after 40, kind of tells it''s own story. Do you not think?[/quote]The thing is international teams are all about form. If you are not in form then you dont get in the team. Robinson, it seems, may have peaked early on in his career where goalkeepers generally get better with age - or so it is commonly believed.James is pretty much in goal by default. The big stage requires experience, experience of regular first team football, football on an international scale in Europe or the Champions League. And when you look at it like that James is really the only English keeper that has at least experienced that.When you look at it you struggle to see what is going to happen next. You have Hart and Foster at the young end of the scale and Green and Robinson who look like the obvious successors for age and experience.James I have never liked and is best summed up by five live''s Al Green who I totally agree with in that no matter how well David James is playing you know that at least once every game he is going to give the opposition a chance to score. For me he is the Titus Bramble of goalkeepers. For no real reason once a game he will do something rather silly, drop a ball out of two hands onto a strikers boot, let a slowly rolling ball go under his hands and between his legs, come rushing out of goal to tackle a player his defender is clearly going to challenge, stroke a ball rather sweetly to a striker rather than hitting it ugly anywhere to safety, try to outskill a striker rather than get rid of it. Yet he is still there.The other consideration on this is that it is about clean sheets. David Seaman was a quality goalkeeper but he had quality defenders in front of him in Adams and Pearce amongst others. They were mean. You could say the same of some others in that list such as Martyn who only really played seccond fiddle to Seaman and who''s appearences mainly came in friendlies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0 Posted March 30, 2009 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="NCFC_Shaun"]What a load of rubbish. How can you take it seriously when Paul Robinson has been put ahead of Peter Shilton and Gordon Banks.[/quote]How can facts be rubbish?Odd.Do you really think that Shilton, for example, didn''t make bloopers as bad as Robinson''s? Cameroon, Italy and Argentina in the World cup Finals ring a bell?OTBC [/quote]How can facts be rubbish? When the facts don''t show the whole story.I think it was the great Homer Simpson who said "People can make statistics to say anything. 6 out of 10 people know that".We all know there is more to keeping a clean sheet than just the ability of the ''keeper. Who were the back 4 in those games? What formation was played? What was the quality of the opposition?To be fair to you, you do claim that this is "by 1 measure", and by that one measure, you are indeed correct. I think its fair to say the "clean sheet" is a performance indicator for the entire team, not just the number 1.Therefore, IMO this "fact" is about as useful as the fact that when I play golf, I hole 100% of my last putts on all greens. Using the same logic, I therefore must be a great putter! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
