The kitty - Pro or Anti the idea?

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

 

Likewise if a player is bought for 250k, turns into a superstar and is sold for £10m in 2 years time, does the Kitty receive the full £10m? or just the initial outlay of 250k?  or a % of the £10m as it could be argued the club have invested money in training and developing the player.  If as I suspect the Kitty would only get back its initial outlay then why should the fans spend more of their ''hard-earned'' to line the pockets of the board?  At the end of the day all of the £10m or a very high % of it should go back into the kitty because that player wouldn''t have been there to be sold without the kitty.

 

[/quote]

whos to say the Kitty will receive ANY money from sales? clubs money, clubs player, they can do what the hell they want

jas :)

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

 

Likewise if a player is bought for 250k, turns into a superstar and is sold for £10m in 2 years time, does the Kitty receive the full £10m? or just the initial outlay of 250k?  or a % of the £10m as it could be argued the club have invested money in training and developing the player.  If as I suspect the Kitty would only get back its initial outlay then why should the fans spend more of their ''hard-earned'' to line the pockets of the board?  At the end of the day all of the £10m or a very high % of it should go back into the kitty because that player wouldn''t have been there to be sold without the kitty.

 

[/quote]

whos to say the Kitty will receive ANY money from sales? clubs money, clubs player, they can do what the hell they want

jas :)

[/quote]

 

Well yes you''re right unless there is anything specifically stated in the agreement.

Actually hang on there, is there actually an agreement or contract or whatever with the club?

And also if the club think it will be too much of a headache, having to justify how the money is spent, if/when the player is sold, how much say the kitty actually has, they could turn around and say that they don''t want the money!  Hence why I think they were coy with their response to it.

[AndyJR 0]

Whilst all efforts by fans to help the club are to be applauded, I think it''s a shame all the different Supporters Clubs haven''t got together in order to work towards a common goal, be it raising money for transfers or getting a fan on the board. 

[Cannycanary 0]

[quote user="AndyJR"]Whilst all efforts by fans to help the club are to be applauded, I think it''s a shame all the different Supporters Clubs haven''t got together in order to work towards a common goal, be it raising money for transfers or getting a fan on the board. 
[/quote]

Andy, we welcome talks to all Supporters Clubs, our details are available on the website and we are friendly.

[ca 1]

[quote user="AndyJR"]Whilst all efforts by fans to help the club are to be applauded, I think it''s a shame all the different Supporters Clubs haven''t got together in order to work towards a common goal, be it raising money for transfers or getting a fan on the board. 
[/quote]

 

I agree and suggested this a while back. I think the NCISA people had arranged to meet Mr Walpole months ago but understand that meeting had to be cancelled and I''m not sure if another meeting ever took place.

Also would have thought the Trust might have got involved, just think if thoese 3 organisations had got together then the whole project would have had more power behind it.

I do however applaud any efforts to improve and help the club we love.

 

[They need to EARN the right to play us 0]

"A charitable trust does not necessarily mean something is a charity, it can be a way of avoiding taxation."

If you''re anything like me you''ll be interested as to the motivation behind claims like this which seem to suggest that giving money to the club via this scheme will, because of charity status, be more tax efficient than, for instance, FONCY. For the avoidance of any doubt here''s what HMRC have to say:

"To be regarded as charitable, all the purposes of a trust

must

• be within the legal meaning of
  charitable
• promote public benefit.

There is a summary of charitable purposes at RE2100.

"http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tsemmanual/tsem6273.htmand"Charities established in the United Kingdom can claim

exemption from tax on most forms of income and capital gains

provided the income and gains are applied for charitable purposes

only. Charities established outside the United Kingdom are not

exempt from tax as charities. But, charities established in the

Republic of Ireland will usually qualify for double taxation relief

(DT9888).

For tax purposes a charity is any trust or body of persons

established for ’charitable purposes only''. The words

’charitable purposes'' are given a much wider meaning than,

for example, the relief of poverty. A charity may be for one or

more of the following purposes:

• the relief of poverty
• the advancement of education
• the advancement of religion
• certain purposes beneficial to the
  community"

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/remanual/RE2100.htmA fuller list of charitable purposes, with explanations, is provided by the Charity Commission athttp://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/spr/corcom1.asp

So, as I say, anyone can see for themselves with just a couple of minutes'' investigation that this scheme cannot be a charity or a charitable trust despite what has been claimed, and still not taken back by its proponents.

[Cannycanary 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="AndyJR"]Whilst all efforts by fans to help the club are to be applauded, I think it''s a shame all the different Supporters Clubs haven''t got together in order to work towards a common goal, be it raising money for transfers or getting a fan on the board. 
[/quote]

 

I agree and suggested this a while back. I think the NCISA people had arranged to meet Mr Walpole months ago but understand that meeting had to be cancelled and I''m not sure if another meeting ever took place.

Also would have thought the Trust might have got involved, just think if thoese 3 organisations had got together then the whole project would have had more power behind it.

I do however applaud any efforts to improve and help the club we love.

 

[/quote]

Hi City angel, we finally got there and will report the outcome tomorrow, i will show the fans just how much credibility they have and what can be done with it..Today has been very much a success.

I''m all for a meeting, I know that I have been engrossed and haven''t been able to get together with Mr Tilson, but i''m sure we can meet up soon, along with others but believe me when i say there has been an incredible amount of work that has been done to get the Kitty to this stage. We now will move onto phase 2.

I will discuss this with the committee tomorrow and see if we can arrange a meeting.

 

[Cannycanary 0]

[quote user="Reg Presley"]"A charitable trust does not necessarily mean something is a charity, it can be a way of avoiding taxation."


If you''re anything like me you''ll be interested as to the motivation behind claims like this which seem to suggest that giving money to the club via this scheme will, because of charity status, be more tax efficient than, for instance, FONCY. For the avoidance of any doubt here''s what HMRC have to say:

"To be regarded as charitable, all the purposes of a trust must

• be within the legal meaning of charitable

• promote public benefit.

There is a summary of charitable purposes at RE2100. "

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tsemmanual/tsem6273.htm

and

"Charities established in the United Kingdom can claim exemption from tax on most forms of income and capital gains provided the income and gains are applied for charitable purposes only. Charities established outside the United Kingdom are not exempt from tax as charities. But, charities established in the Republic of Ireland will usually qualify for double taxation relief (DT9888).

For tax purposes a charity is any trust or body of persons established for ’charitable purposes only''. The words ’charitable purposes'' are given a much wider meaning than, for example, the relief of poverty. A charity may be for one or more of the following purposes:

• the relief of poverty

• the advancement of education

• the advancement of religion

• certain purposes beneficial to the community"

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/remanual/RE2100.htm

A fuller list of charitable purposes, with explanations, is provided by the Charity Commission at

http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/spr/corcom1.asp


So, as I say, anyone can see for themselves with just a couple of minutes'' investigation that this scheme cannot be a charity or a charitable trust despite what has been claimed, and still not taken back by its proponents.


[/quote]

 

Please read this: Articles of association this should clear up any confusion.

[They need to EARN the right to play us 0]

"Please read this: Articles of association this should clear up any confusion."I''m not confused at all.http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/3/1160012/ShowPost.aspx#1160012http://www.wrathofthebarclay.co.uk/interactive/board/message.php?pid=761355

[Cannycanary 0]

[quote user="Reg Presley"]"Please read this: Articles of association this should clear up any confusion."

I''m not confused at all.

http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/3/1160012/ShowPost.aspx#1160012

http://www.wrathofthebarclay.co.uk/interactive/board/message.php?pid=761355
[/quote]

 

Thats a quote from when we were seeking status to what could be done. Since then this has been done with accountants and solicitors.

There is no need to refer back to this post. That was very early days my friend.

 

 

[They need to EARN the right to play us 0]

Anyone can see what you and your colleague have claimed, and everyone can see the basis on which those claims were made, so I really don''t need to say any more.I am not your friend.

[McCanary 0]

Reg.............. What exactly is your beef about the charitable status thing? I`ve read two or three threads where all you harp on about is this.

CC has explained the details and the articles are available to read on the site.

At the end of the day, you don`t need to contribute if you don`t want to.[:D]

[Cannycanary 0]

[quote user="Reg Presley"]Anyone can see what you and your colleague have claimed, and everyone can see the basis on which those claims were made, so I really don''t need to say any more.
I am not your friend.
[/quote]

Reg presley, why are you "all shook up"?  Your not you binner are you?  there''s been one or two on here today. 

[Wembley_Canary 0]

I hate to come across negative but I just can''t see it takeing off at all, don''t get me wrong I think the people behind the idea should be applauded for their hard work, but it''s very unlikely this organization will reach much of a wide audience beyond the people who use this forum and the odd City fan that finds the site by chance. Another problem is that I don''t think there will be too many people who are willing to donate to something they fear will ultimately make hardly any contribution to the club. I would be shocked if they raised anything near a six figure sum. Of course I hope i''m proved wrong though.

 

[Cannycanary 0]

I will try to explain:

I already have a website that generates between 10,000 & 15,000  unique users per week, the site has first page positions on many various keywords, it has nothing to do with football but i have learnt how to make websites perform. The reason for the Directory is that it covers many professions from accountants to sub-contractors. When this is fully optimised and i have done the Search engine optimisation (SEO) to it (12 months), it will gain position and thus drive its own traffic by topic, on top of the traffic generated through football. Where the supporters come in is that there are ways for them to power the website to generate these strong positions. With this companies will be eager to be on these pages that perform well.

If you look closely at the Directory is has county''s listed, these will be extended later, SEO links are valuable and companies all across the country will pay to have them. By the time it is finished it will be a product that has as much commercial value as the yellow pages . This is where the true value of the Kitty will come from. 

 

 

[Blue 0]

Honest opinion looking on.  Bad move.  It''s unlikely to add up to anything significant given fees and wages, and is in danger of making you all (the club not the supporters) look small / insignificant / stupid... etc etc. Of course if it gets a reaction  (financial) from the owners then perhaps it serves a purpose another way...

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="Cannycanary"]

I will try to explain:

I already have a website that generates between 10,000 & 15,000  unique users per week, the site has first page positions on many various keywords, it has nothing to do with football but i have learnt how to make websites perform. The reason for the Directory is that it covers many professions from accountants to sub-contractors. When this is fully optimised and i have done the Search engine optimisation (SEO) to it (12 months), it will gain position and thus drive its own traffic by topic, on top of the traffic generated through football. Where the supporters come in is that there are ways for them to power the website to generate these strong positions. With this companies will be eager to be on these pages that perform well.

If you look closely at the Directory is has county''s listed, these will be extended later, SEO links are valuable and companies all across the country will pay to have them. By the time it is finished it will be a product that has as much commercial value as the yellow pages . This is where the true value of the Kitty will come from. 

 

 

[/quote]

It will be on a par with yell.com then?[:^)]

Do you have any forecasts/projections to back this statement up?

If so can I see them please?

[Bury Yellow 2]

Blue, I hate to say it but I totally agree. I made a similar point eariier in the thread.

I don''t know whether this is a ''Norfolk'' thing with the greatest of respect, but to me it gives out the wrong message and i certainly could not see the binners getting it past, or indeed even wanting to get it past first base.

Sorry, credit I suppose for those trying something different but all in all I find it an embarrassment.

[Barclay_Boy 0]

[quote user="Bobert"]

You know I wonder if we should not support a much smaller club like, for example, Norwich United. The amounts probably raised by The Kitty are going to be useless in the Championship but could well help a smaller Club enormously who might then go un to provide local talent for NCFC scouts to pick up.

I would think that NCFC could easily pick up and exrtra £20,000 or so which will take Kitty an age to raise. I would suggest for example:

1) Souvenier shops inside the ground on match days instead of outside it

2) Selling Asian meals in the Ground through deals with Restauants in the town

3}Making use of volunteer stweards and groundsmen

4}Selling advertising within the goalposts at the begining and end of the match and at half time

5)Selling upgraded seats in the Upper Barclay and other areas ( like business class on airlines)

6)Running buses from the Rail Station, County Hall and Yarmouth Road before and at the end of the Games

7}Having a Club Photographer take pictures of fans in the Ground with Players, etc

8)Charging for entrance to the Press Box on match days.

9)Having a Roll Over lottery ticket payable on a hat trick being scored and the winner in the Ground.

10)Selling Icecream

11)Having a book and magazine stall inside the Ground.

............ the list is endless for someone with a creative mind

[/quote]

seriously think that you should be put in charge of marketing mate! there''s some bloody good ideas there.

[William Darby 0]

Well done for trying...but IMO there are far too many people like myself who think they give the club enough money already through match tickets, merchandise etc etc.  Add to the fact that that our cheesy CE  draws 175K per year to run the club properly in the first place.Sorry but if I wanted to ''donate'' cash I''d rather give it to something like the RBL or some local children''s charity of some sort.I''m City to the core but you have to draw a line somewhere.

[Cannycanary 0]

Results from Webnesday 28th AUGUST.

Total traffic:      958

                                                         Visits                        Time spent       % new visits

1.	(direct) / (none)	487		00:04:40	84.70%
2.	clubfanzine.com / referral	157		00:01:13	96.82%
3.	google / organic	134		00:05:48	48.39%
4.	wrathofthebarclay.co.uk / referral	105		00:01:29	48.24%
5.	pinkun.com / referral	28		00:02:13	42.86%
6.	Yahoo.com / organic	15		00:03:11	66.67%
7.	new.pinkun.com / referral	14		00:02:23	50.00%
8.	norwichkitty.com / referral	10		00:02:11	60.00%
9.	live / organic	8		00:01:38	37.50%

What would you pay to advertise to this volume of people in 1 day? What if it was every day?  and this is a fraction of what we can achieve.

Where theres a crowd there is a silver lining thats a fact, so for those who have helped with these figures I thankyou for your support. We will continue with our aim but this guys is a very good start.

 

Regards Steve

 

 

 

[AndyJR 0]

I think we can conclude:If you want to donate then do!If you don''t want to donate don''t!But whatever you do,Visit the site and tell people about it, so they have the choice - no harm in that.  [:D]

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Cannycanary"]

Results from Webnesday 28th AUGUST.

Total traffic:      958

                                                         Visits                        Time spent       % new visits

1.	(direct) / (none)	487		00:04:40	84.70%
2.	clubfanzine.com / referral	157		00:01:13	96.82%
3.	google / organic	134		00:05:48	48.39%
4.	wrathofthebarclay.co.uk / referral	105		00:01:29	48.24%
5.	pinkun.com / referral	28		00:02:13	42.86%
6.	Yahoo.com / organic	15		00:03:11	66.67%
7.	new.pinkun.com / referral	14		00:02:23	50.00%
8.	norwichkitty.com / referral	10		00:02:11	60.00%
9.	live / organic	8		00:01:38	37.50%

What would you pay to advertise to this volume of people in 1 day? What if it was every day?  and this is a fraction of what we can achieve.

Where theres a crowd there is a silver lining thats a fact, so for those who have helped with these figures I thankyou for your support. We will continue with our aim but this guys is a very good start.

 

Regards Steve

 

 

 

[/quote]#how many of those people are visiting and how many despoting cash? If you had a shop would you be pleased with people looking in the window and walking past?

jas :)

[Cannycanary 0]

Where do you work Jas?

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="Cannycanary"]Where do you work Jas?[/quote]In one of those funny shops lit by red light where women sit in the windows.  Loads just browse without purchasing...

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Cannycanary"]Where do you work Jas?[/quote]

I work in customer services for an educational suppliers.... but could be on the verge of a career change... just waiting to hear.

jas :)

[Syteanric 1]

oh, and please answer the question Canny Canary.. how many of those visitors, as a percentage, are depositing cash?

jas :)

[Barclay_Boy 0]

going to have to change my mind on this one, and become pro, kind of. Not that I am going to start giving them vast sums of money, but have just visited the site and signed up for the forum, The site looks very good and the least people could do I suppose is change your homepage to the Norwich City Kitty. Doesn''t cost a penny to do that and using that page as a gateway to search the net will generate funds for the kitty apparently.

So - using the site as your homepage, no harm in that is there?

[Cannycanary 0]

Cheers Barclay boy, As I have said to everyone that there is no effort or cost involved for supporters to help this, If people can donate then that is great but if not at least their support for the site allows us to market it.

Jas you post a lot on here and you could have helped us by promoting it to people who only occasionally come on this forum, this would have a far greater effect than the Delia out picture you promote. We know that there is discontent amongst supporters for the board but that''s not a reason to dismiss something that will benefit the team in the future. To underestimate the power of the supporter is naive. When it comes to business the company you work for have to promote themselves to either other businesses or people like you and me, in fact everyone on this board could be a potential customer if they need a product or service. Business will promote where it is cost effective which is what is being worked on now. The more traffic we receive the more financially viable it becomes.

There will be two streams of traffic, Norwich city supporters and Internet product surfers. I have an an incredible record of Search engine optimisation (SEO) that is my job, (Generating traffic from the web) I believe £ for £  i can compete with anyone in the country for what i do & I have the results to prove it. This is why I know I can make the Kitty amongst the most powerful websites in this region.

Jas i have listened to your negativity about the Kitty you opinion etc but with all due respect I am far more Qualified at what I am doing than you are. The best is yet to come with this site, the foundations are laid and the city supporters now have something that can shape the future of the club. The club will recognise this and eventually go in the right direction and add serious Internet Revenue to its coffers (they are doing it all wrong which effects us and the team). Eventually giving more power to the supporters through having a larger financial voice,

Lets show the club what the supporters can do together when we put our minds to it, lets get the bosses envolved, lets get promoting and telling everyone about the Kitty.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Cannycanary"]

Cheers Barclay boy, As I have said to everyone that there is no effort or cost involved for supporters to help this, If people can donate then that is great but if not at least their support for the site allows us to market it.

Jas you post a lot on here and you could have helped us by promoting it to people who only occasionally come on this forum, this would have a far greater effect than the Delia out picture you promote. We know that there is discontent amongst supporters for the board but that''s not a reason to dismiss something that will benefit the team in the future. To underestimate the power of the supporter is naive. When it comes to business the company you work for have to promote themselves to either other businesses or people like you and me, in fact everyone on this board could be a potential customer if they need a product or service. Business will promote where it is cost effective which is what is being worked on now. The more traffic we receive the more financially viable it becomes.

There will be two streams of traffic, Norwich city supporters and Internet product surfers. I have an an incredible record of Search engine optimisation (SEO) that is my job, (Generating traffic from the web) I believe £ for £  i can compete with anyone in the country for what i do & I have the results to prove it. This is why I know I can make the Kitty amongst the most powerful websites in this region.

Jas i have listened to your negativity about the Kitty you opinion etc but with all due respect I am far more Qualified at what I am doing than you are. The best is yet to come with this site, the foundations are laid and the city supporters now have something that can shape the future of the club. The club will recognise this and eventually go in the right direction and add serious Internet Revenue to its coffers (they are doing it all wrong which effects us and the team). Eventually giving more power to the supporters through having a larger financial voice,

Lets show the club what the supporters can do together when we put our minds to it, lets get the bosses envolved, lets get promoting and telling everyone about the Kitty.

[/quote]

how much money have the fans given the club over the years.. all our lives.. and where has it gone? this is jut one more thing to give our money too and for the club to P*ss away...

 you might not believe but i am open minded about the kitty and if proving succesful would donate... indeed the change of career that could happen could be of benefit of to the kitty.. but i dont want to say anything about that at this time for obvious reasons.

I dont doubt for a second you arent qualified enough to make it work.. but you have to rely on other people.. and we all knows that happens if you do that....

i dont doubt you can get the website seen, and make everyone in the county (and further afield) aware of it, but seeing it and having the trust in the club to spend the money are 2 different things.. until the confidence in the football club returns i cant see many investing...

i still wish you and mr Walpole all the best in it...

and i ask again what percentage of visitors have donated so far? im not asking it to down the kitty im just curious.

jas :)