PROTEST AGAINST DELIA AND THE BOARD

[Evil Monkey 52]

Oh good grief... FP, here''s how I''ve viewed your discussion with Nutty as an outsider:Nutty suggests that any fan who is elected to the board as some kind of PR exercise will likely become a figure of hate or mockery for certain people for the duration of their time on the board, regardless of who they are and what they end up doing.  Whilst there''s no precedent set for a "voice of the fans" type figure, previous fans elected to the board do include a certain Delia Smith and Geoffrey Watling, both of whom have come in for stick from the terraces during their time.  The latter is now revered as some sort of demi-God, and Nutty suggests it is likely that history will look back on Delia''s "steady-the-ship" reign in a more positive light than is currently apparent.How you''ve made this into some kind of pedantry on the definition of "protest" I can''t figure out, unless you''re being deliberately obtuse?

[Match Day Pie 0]

[quote user="Fat Pineapple"][quote user="Match Day Pie"]

Honestly, some of you really are fecking idiots. The whole point of writing about Delia having spoken to somebody who''s worked closely her was that unless any of you have been that close, you can''t make assumptions.

So what do you do? Make assumptions!

''If, as you seem to be suggesting, her fragile ego is being put before the good of the club'' etc etc etc etc

What is wrong with you? Where did I ''suggest'' anything? The whole point of it was to say there is no point in speculating about Delia''s intentions and so on because you don''t have any proof. So what do you do? Take fact and turned it into fiction. Yet again. Which will always happen when you put your own opinions in front of what is actually known.

Again, I am no lover of the board or Delia but this endless nonsense about what she may or may not be thinking will not help any of us in the long run, and just creates bad feeling.

[/quote]

MDP this is a discussion forum not a court of law.  It''s all about opinions.  None of us knows the whole truth or even half of it.  And of course we don''t know exactly what''s going on in Delia''s mind.  But to me it seems increasingly obvious that the workings of Delia''s mind play a far larger part in the fortunes of Norwich City than they ought to, and that there are other people at the top of this club who are shirking their responsibilities by letting it happen.  That''s just my opinion fwiw.

 

[/quote]

I wouldn''t disagree with that at all, because that''s a far more reasonable statement on what''s going on at CR rather than the more offensive posts that claim to know exactly what she''s thinking.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"]Oh good grief... FP, here''s how I''ve viewed your discussion with Nutty as an outsider:

Nutty suggests that any fan who is elected to the board as some kind of PR exercise will likely become a figure of hate or mockery for certain people for the duration of their time on the board, regardless of who they are and what they end up doing.  Whilst there''s no precedent set for a "voice of the fans" type figure, previous fans elected to the board do include a certain Delia Smith and Geoffrey Watling, both of whom have come in for stick from the terraces during their time.  The latter is now revered as some sort of demi-God, and Nutty suggests it is likely that history will look back on Delia''s "steady-the-ship" reign in a more positive light than is currently apparent.

How you''ve made this into some kind of pedantry on the definition of "protest" I can''t figure out, unless you''re being deliberately obtuse?
[/quote]

EM I agree that''s where the thread started several days ago but we''ve gone off at a tangent since then as so often happens on here (that''s not a criticism btw, it''s a joy as much as a frustration).  My last post was simply trying to address nutty''s last post on the subject.  I quite agree that reminiscing about cushion throwers is not very interesting for most of you, and I hesitated before replying for that very reason. 

Get the thread back to where it started by all means, but there''s no need to slag me off in the process.

 

 

 

[Match Day Pie 0]

YC & Mr C:

I agree, one can never predict what any human being is about to do! However, my only point was to say that there is a difference between saying ''Delia''s not going to give the club up easily because she''s too proud'' and ''she''s an evil trout who will only be happy when she''s driven this club into bankruptcy''.

There are too many people going over the top about Delia, and maybe, when it''s all over, we''ll learn that it''s all a lot more simple than many people are trying to make out.

As for voting at elections? Don''t get me started...

[Big Down Under 0]

But MDP, didn''t you realise that Delia is a drunken, seflish, lying third rate celebrity with a Thatcher fixation who is using our club to prop up her failing cooking career and to give her a retirement fund? All you have done is PROVE she uses our club to shore up her damaged ego!

[Mr.Carrow 376]

MDP and BDU, no-one other than maybe a few text-speak idiots has ever posted anything like that about Delia.  By the same token i could post that both of you are bewitched by a fading celebrity who you view as a saint who can do no wrong, but it`s a bit silly really isn`t it?

There is plenty of evidence backing up MDU`s statement regarding Delias over-sensitivity, from her "I saved the club" outbursts at any criticism, to my friend who asked difficult questions at the AGM being invited to meet her to "explain what your problem is with me".  She seems to view criticism of the club as criticism of herself and i think that in some peoples minds the two things have ceased to be seperate entities.

Now, as we are all NCFC supporters why don`t we start putting as much thought and effort into what is best for the CLUB as a whole, rather than one individual who happens to be running it at the moment?

[. 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

MDP and BDU, no-one other than maybe a few text-speak idiots has ever posted anything like that about Delia.  By the same token i could post that both of you are bewitched by a fading celebrity who you view as a saint who can do no wrong, but it`s a bit silly really isn`t it?

There is plenty of evidence backing up MDU`s statement regarding Delias over-sensitivity, from her "I saved the club" outbursts at any criticism, to my friend who asked difficult questions at the AGM being invited to meet her to "explain what your problem is with me".  She seems to view criticism of the club as criticism of herself and i think that in some peoples minds the two things have ceased to be seperate entities.

Now, as we are all NCFC supporters why don`t we start putting as much thought and effort into what is best for the CLUB as a whole, rather than one individual who happens to be running it at the moment?

[/quote]

As good a comment as I''ve read on here.

When I state that Smith has hijacked the "soul" of the club, this is exactly what is inferred. In years gone by the whole emphasis of the average NCFC fan was the club itself...and the players on the park. Now it has become the sensitivities of one individual.

As long as it stays this way we are lost and will remain floating in a stagnant pool of myth and deceit until it is eventually stopped. I find it staggeringly difficult to understand why so many still remain blinded by the "saviour" spin and can''t let go for the sake of the whole......

Mr. Carrow...I''ve no idea who you are but your finger is placed perfectly on the pulse of this once proud club of ours......

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="Fat Pineapple"]Get the thread back to where it started by

all means, but there''s no need to slag me off in the process.[/quote]

Slag you off? Sorry if you think that.  My comments about being

deliberately obtuse? Fair game considering how long this thread has

gone on... its not a criticism, I know some of you like a good debate

and I suspect that some try to keep the argument going as long as

possible.  Final word and all that...

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

MDP and BDU, no-one other than maybe a few text-speak idiots has

ever posted anything like that about Delia.  By the same token i

could post that both of you are bewitched by a fading celebrity who you

view as a saint who can do no wrong, but it`s a bit silly really isn`t

it?

There is plenty of evidence backing up MDU`s statement regarding

Delias over-sensitivity, from her "I saved the club" outbursts at any

criticism, to my friend who asked difficult questions at the AGM being

invited to meet her to "explain what your problem is with me". 

She seems to view criticism of the club as criticism of herself and i

think that in some peoples minds the two things have ceased to be

seperate entities.

Now, as we are all NCFC supporters why don`t we start

putting as much thought and effort into what is best for the CLUB as a

whole, rather than one individual who happens to be running it at the

moment?

[/quote]

As good a comment as I''ve read on here.

When I state that Smith has hijacked the "soul" of the club, this is

exactly what is inferred. In years gone by the whole emphasis of the

average NCFC fan was the club itself...and the players on the park. Now it has become the sensitivities of one individual.

As long as it stays this way we are lost and will remain floating in

a stagnant pool of myth and deceit until it is eventually stopped. I

find it staggeringly difficult to understand why so many still remain

blinded by the "saviour" spin and can''t let go for the sake of the

whole......

Mr. Carrow...I''ve no idea who you are but your finger is placed perfectly on the pulse of this once proud club of ours......

[/quote]

I agree Carrow and Cluck, however may I put it to you that by picking

at everything Delia says and does that it is yourselves who have made

her the sole focus in the first place? Most of us are happy to go about

our daily lives wondering which players we do/do not have, who the next

one will be, what the next result will be and what it all means. 

Only a small number choose to carry on about Delia the whole time and

you two are as guilty of that as anyone.

So does this mean you''re turning over a new leaf and will henceforth be

ignoring Delia and concentrating on the joys of this wonderful club?

Can I get a Hallelujah?![:D]

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

MDP and BDU, no-one other than maybe a few text-speak idiots has ever posted anything like that about Delia.  By the same token i could post that both of you are bewitched by a fading celebrity who you view as a saint who can do no wrong, but it`s a bit silly really isn`t it?

There is plenty of evidence backing up MDU`s statement regarding Delias over-sensitivity, from her "I saved the club" outbursts at any criticism, to my friend who asked difficult questions at the AGM being invited to meet her to "explain what your problem is with me".  She seems to view criticism of the club as criticism of herself and i think that in some peoples minds the two things have ceased to be seperate entities.

Now, as we are all NCFC supporters why don`t we start putting as much thought and effort into what is best for the CLUB as a whole, rather than one individual who happens to be running it at the moment?

[/quote]Thats not actually true is it? You yourself bang on about how she has lied to us (despite the fact that you need to read ''abridged'' versions of her quotes to back up the view). Cluck and others regularly state their views about her being a third rate celebrity, how she ''likes a drink'', how she is only in it for a profit or to help her sell books.Also I have critised her plenty, but its funny how this gets overlooked.  Her hiring of Grant, the state of the Academy,  the whole seeming mindset about the club, all signs that things haven''t been all rosy and all things I have mentioned on various threads. I am also uneasy about some of the off field investments, but can''t criticise too hard on this as I don''t understand the full plans or potential of these investments. Those who bang on about hotels and restaurants just don''t understand that we NEED these activities, to help fund the team. Selling out the ground each week doesn''t make us a rich club anymore. But failing to criticise her over everything gets you branded as being ''bewitched'' by her, or Doncaster, or a relative of a board member. Utter and total crap.Before some posters can think of what is best for the club as a whole, you included, you need to get over this whole Delia thing and actually look at what she has done well, as well as what she has done badly, and what environment she is working in (by this I mean the economic realities of running a modern Championship football club). But you won''t. You will use your dislike of her to try and heap more pressure on the club, which is exactly what they don''t need right now.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Evil, i can honestly say that until this Cullum business i hardly ever mentioned Delia in my posts.  It now appears that there is a weight of evidence suggesting that her ego is the most important thing at the club rather than the overall good of the club- and that is a serious issue which needs to be addressed.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

BDU, What is the point of going through all this again?  If you don`t want to get it, you won`t get it.  Delia asked for £20m for the team and stated that she didn`t want money for her shares.  Cullum came along who fitted all her strict criteria and offered exactly what she asked for and yet it still wasn`t good enough.  She lied, and no amount of spinning and twisting from you will change that.

But i am aware of the good things that have happened at the club during her tenure and backed the board by buying shares and bricks in the new stand a few years ago.  If they deserved the credit back then, then they deserve the blame for what has happened since.

If you read my post i am not accusing you of being bewitched by her, i`m pointing out that we can all throw around polarising summaries of other peoples opinions like your earlier post but it`s all a bit silly.  Let`s try and keep it reasonable hey?

As for your last paragraph, if Delia really is intent on keeping her grip on the club no matter what, then the clubs overall best interests are no longer the number one priority and there needs to be more pressure, not less.

 

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Evil, i can honestly say that until this Cullum

business i hardly ever mentioned Delia in my posts.  It now

appears that there is a weight of evidence suggesting that her ego is

the most important thing at the club rather than the overall good of

the club- and that is a serious issue which needs to be

addressed.[/quote]

Fair enough Mr Carrow, but my thoughts stand for "the other one"... he knows who he is... [;)]

I also agree with your other post, there''s absolutely no point in you

and BDU going through all of this again.  It was mildly

interesting last time, then got very boring very quickly and I don''t

think any of us want to see a repeat.  With the season

approaching, transfer rumours abound, and my first game in 7 months

coming on Saturday I personally couldn''t give a stuff about Delia or

even Cullum right now, I just want to get started again! Bring on the

season please![Y]

[Match Day Pie 0]

BDU:

Your last post is very pertinent. Because I ask people to get away from their Delia fantasies and deal with what we really know, I''m accused of supporting her. I don''t, I think the board''s made a lot of mistakes but there seems to be very few of us who see this club for what it really is: a middling club with huge potential that has caretakers who care about the club but cannot afford to take it into the big time.

In the same way that Cullum''s cash has blinded many people, it''s become too easy for people to focus on Delia for all the negatives. This is too short sighted. Being insulting about her isn''t going to help anyone.

 

[. 0]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

MDP and BDU, no-one other than maybe a few text-speak idiots has ever posted anything like that about Delia.  By the same token i could post that both of you are bewitched by a fading celebrity who you view as a saint who can do no wrong, but it`s a bit silly really isn`t it?

There is plenty of evidence backing up MDU`s statement regarding Delias over-sensitivity, from her "I saved the club" outbursts at any criticism, to my friend who asked difficult questions at the AGM being invited to meet her to "explain what your problem is with me".  She seems to view criticism of the club as criticism of herself and i think that in some peoples minds the two things have ceased to be seperate entities.

Now, as we are all NCFC supporters why don`t we start putting as much thought and effort into what is best for the CLUB as a whole, rather than one individual who happens to be running it at the moment?

[/quote]

As good a comment as I''ve read on here.

When I state that Smith has hijacked the "soul" of the club, this is exactly what is inferred. In years gone by the whole emphasis of the average NCFC fan was the club itself...and the players on the park. Now it has become the sensitivities of one individual.

As long as it stays this way we are lost and will remain floating in a stagnant pool of myth and deceit until it is eventually stopped. I find it staggeringly difficult to understand why so many still remain blinded by the "saviour" spin and can''t let go for the sake of the whole......

Mr. Carrow...I''ve no idea who you are but your finger is placed perfectly on the pulse of this once proud club of ours......

[/quote]

I agree Carrow and Cluck, however may I put it to you that by picking at everything Delia says and does that it is yourselves who have made her the sole focus in the first place? Most of us are happy to go about our daily lives wondering which players we do/do not have, who the next one will be, what the next result will be and what it all means.  Only a small number choose to carry on about Delia the whole time and you two are as guilty of that as anyone.

So does this mean you''re turning over a new leaf and will henceforth be ignoring Delia and concentrating on the joys of this wonderful club? Can I get a Hallelujah?![:D]
[/quote]

I''m afraid through business connections I knew of Smith''s dismissive attitude towards this club and it''s supporters way before it became more general knowledge. It has only ever been about her and her personal ego. I went out on a limb on here to go against the "saviour" image so cynically portrayed and blindly believed by many and got caned for it....but feel this only proves the point that I have far more affection for the club itself than the individual who has "hijacked" it''s soul. This is not the case for a great many of you who think the demise of NCFC is "incidental" to Smith rather than "fundamental" to it....

Unfortunately we cannot ignore Smith...as she is the one person holding it back and thus allowing the decay to become chronic. Peter Cullum holds out hope for the ambitious...but here again we come up against the barrier Smith has built to defend her fortress.

I would also suggest one further point...Norwich is a "small" City with very few major businessmen/women operating within it. This makes holding the reigns at Carrow Road a high status position for anyone to look down on others (similar to the role of "captain" at a snooty members only golf club). Smith has been aware of the threat to her status from Peter Cullum for some considerable time and has become paranoid about the whole affair. Knowing that her majority holding (deliberate policy) excludes any likelihood of being "removed" by PC....she jumps into bed (metaphorically) with the Turners ( small time business opponents of Peter Cullum) and childishly sticks to two fingers up to him. This is typical of small time/small town football clubs badly run by people out of their depth...but keen to "cock a snook" at others more worthy who threaten them.

Peter Cullum is fully aware of the game being played and thus came in with the very offer that Smith publicly stated she would accept...and duly called her bluff. If you can''t see or understand this scenario then you are truly under the celebrity spell cast by Smith over a decade ago. It''s our club she is playing with....and it quite simply has to end.

So I say...good on you Peter Cullum. Whatever your intentions you have exposed Smith and Co. for what they are and I hope it comes to pass that her painfully naive flock eventually wise up. It''s sad for me to see the good people of Norfolk so foolishly hoodwinked as I thought they were better than that........

 

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

I''m afraid through business connections I knew of Smith''s dismissive attitude towards this club and it''s supporters way before it became more general knowledge. It has only ever been about her and her personal ego. I went out on a limb on here to go against the "saviour" image so cynically portrayed and blindly believed by many and got caned for it....but feel this only proves the point that I have far more affection for the club itself than the individual who has "hijacked" it''s soul. This is not the case for a great many of you who think the demise of NCFC is "incidental" to Smith rather than "fundamental" to it....

Unfortunately we cannot ignore Smith...as she is the one person holding it back and thus allowing the decay to become chronic. Peter Cullum holds out hope for the ambitious...but here again we come up against the barrier Smith has built to defend her fortress.

I would also suggest one further point...Norwich is a "small" City with very few major businessmen/women operating within it. This makes holding the reigns at Carrow Road a high status position for anyone to look down on others (similar to the role of "captain" at a snooty members only golf club). Smith has been aware of the threat to her status from Peter Cullum for some considerable time and has become paranoid about the whole affair. Knowing that her majority holding (deliberate policy) excludes any likelihood of being "removed" by PC....she jumps into bed (metaphorically) with the Turners ( small time business opponents of Peter Cullum) and childishly sticks to two fingers up to him. This is typical of small time/small town football clubs badly run by people out of their depth...but keen to "cock a snook" at others more worthy who threaten them.

Peter Cullum is fully aware of the game being played and thus came in with the very offer that Smith publicly stated she would accept...and duly called her bluff. If you can''t see or understand this scenario then you are truly under the celebrity spell cast by Smith over a decade ago. It''s our club she is playing with....and it quite simply has to end.

So I say...good on you Peter Cullum. Whatever your intentions you have exposed Smith and Co. for what they are and I hope it comes to pass that her painfully naive flock eventually wise up. It''s sad for me to see the good people of Norfolk so foolishly hoodwinked as I thought they were better than that........

 

[/quote]

See Fat.. this type of post is not far removed from those "zigger zagger" chants against Watling.  Protest is ok when it''s defined what the protest is about. But here we are fuelling the protest with personal opinion about Delia Smith''s character with no facts to back it up. Many of you may feel comfortable with this type of thing but I never will.

As for suggesting Norwich is a "small" City in order to make a point...

 I believe something similar has been done before.

 

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

BDU, What is the point of going through all this again?  If you don`t want to get it, you won`t get it.  Delia asked for £20m for the team and stated that she didn`t want money for her shares.  Cullum came along who fitted all her strict criteria and offered exactly what she asked for and yet it still wasn`t good enough.  She lied, and no amount of spinning and twisting from you will change that.

But i am aware of the good things that have happened at the club during her tenure and backed the board by buying shares and bricks in the new stand a few years ago.  If they deserved the credit back then, then they deserve the blame for what has happened since.

If you read my post i am not accusing you of being bewitched by her, i`m pointing out that we can all throw around polarising summaries of other peoples opinions like your earlier post but it`s all a bit silly.  Let`s try and keep it reasonable hey?

As for your last paragraph, if Delia really is intent on keeping her grip on the club no matter what, then the clubs overall best interests are no longer the number one priority and there needs to be more pressure, not less.

 [/quote]

You did suggest I''m bewitched by her, and you frequently try to undermine my points (which you seldom respond to fully) by suggesting I''m not a neutral but in some way connected to the board. You are right its very silly, but still you do it.

There is no evidence that Delia is holding on to power no matter what, you can''t link me to a quote where Delia says she will give away her

shares if someone puts money into the team (without cutting out the

bits which indicate otherwise), and Cullum, as you know, made no formal offer for her shares, but you still bring it all up day after day. Why do you bother?

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

MDP and BDU, no-one other than maybe a few text-speak idiots has ever posted anything like that about Delia.  By the same token i could post that both of you are bewitched by a fading celebrity who you view as a saint who can do no wrong, but it`s a bit silly really isn`t it?

There is plenty of evidence backing up MDU`s statement regarding Delias over-sensitivity, from her "I saved the club" outbursts at any criticism, to my friend who asked difficult questions at the AGM being invited to meet her to "explain what your problem is with me".  She seems to view criticism of the club as criticism of herself and i think that in some peoples minds the two things have ceased to be seperate entities.

Now, as we are all NCFC supporters why don`t we start putting as much thought and effort into what is best for the CLUB as a whole, rather than one individual who happens to be running it at the moment?

[/quote]

As good a comment as I''ve read on here.

When I state that Smith has hijacked the "soul" of the club, this is exactly what is inferred. In years gone by the whole emphasis of the average NCFC fan was the club itself...and the players on the park. Now it has become the sensitivities of one individual.

As long as it stays this way we are lost and will remain floating in a stagnant pool of myth and deceit until it is eventually stopped. I find it staggeringly difficult to understand why so many still remain blinded by the "saviour" spin and can''t let go for the sake of the whole......

Mr. Carrow...I''ve no idea who you are but your finger is placed perfectly on the pulse of this once proud club of ours......

[/quote]

I agree Carrow and Cluck, however may I put it to you that by picking at everything Delia says and does that it is yourselves who have made her the sole focus in the first place? Most of us are happy to go about our daily lives wondering which players we do/do not have, who the next one will be, what the next result will be and what it all means.  Only a small number choose to carry on about Delia the whole time and you two are as guilty of that as anyone.

So does this mean you''re turning over a new leaf and will henceforth be ignoring Delia and concentrating on the joys of this wonderful club? Can I get a Hallelujah?![:D]
[/quote]

I''m afraid through business connections I knew of Smith''s dismissive attitude towards this club and it''s supporters way before it became more general knowledge. It has only ever been about her and her personal ego. I went out on a limb on here to go against the "saviour" image so cynically portrayed and blindly believed by many and got caned for it....but feel this only proves the point that I have far more affection for the club itself than the individual who has "hijacked" it''s soul. This is not the case for a great many of you who think the demise of NCFC is "incidental" to Smith rather than "fundamental" to it....

Unfortunately we cannot ignore Smith...as she is the one person holding it back and thus allowing the decay to become chronic. Peter Cullum holds out hope for the ambitious...but here again we come up against the barrier Smith has built to defend her fortress.

I would also suggest one further point...Norwich is a "small" City with very few major businessmen/women operating within it. This makes holding the reigns at Carrow Road a high status position for anyone to look down on others (similar to the role of "captain" at a snooty members only golf club). Smith has been aware of the threat to her status from Peter Cullum for some considerable time and has become paranoid about the whole affair. Knowing that her majority holding (deliberate policy) excludes any likelihood of being "removed" by PC....she jumps into bed (metaphorically) with the Turners ( small time business opponents of Peter Cullum) and childishly sticks to two fingers up to him. This is typical of small time/small town football clubs badly run by people out of their depth...but keen to "cock a snook" at others more worthy who threaten them.

Peter Cullum is fully aware of the game being played and thus came in with the very offer that Smith publicly stated she would accept...and duly called her bluff. If you can''t see or understand this scenario then you are truly under the celebrity spell cast by Smith over a decade ago. It''s our club she is playing with....and it quite simply has to end.

So I say...good on you Peter Cullum. Whatever your intentions you have exposed Smith and Co. for what they are and I hope it comes to pass that her painfully naive flock eventually wise up. It''s sad for me to see the good people of Norfolk so foolishly hoodwinked as I thought they were better than that........

[/quote]

This post is nothing but character assassination from the anonymity of a message board. The comments from the above post that I have highlighted in red attack the character of Delia Smith but provide no points or substance to back up those attacks. That, my friends, is called character assassination and, in my view should be banned from this or any public forum. Take the first point where the poster claims he knew, through his business connections,  of Delia''s dismissive attitude towards this club and its supporters. Where are the specific backup points from the posters experience to substantiate such a claim. They are not listed.   

When I posted some time ago that the purpose of Cluck on this forum was to spread poison some thought my comments were harsh. As posters, this forum is providing us with the freedom to make comments towards each other from a position of anonymity. Lots of poking, ribbing and the like occurs between us. When we decide to launch an attack on a person''s real name, however, whether it''s Delia or someone else, we have a responsibility to ensure those attacks are, at the very least, supported with factual input. This is the fair way for civilised people to behave.  

[Mr.Carrow 376]

BDU, i asked you several weeks ago whether you were related to a boardmember (after a non-commital reply to someone suggesting as much) and stated that "if you say no i will take it at face value".  You said no and i haven`t mentioned it since- it`s you who keeps bringing it up.  Why?

There are now a wealth of Delia statements which seem less than honest and if you can`t see the bigger picture yet there is no point going through it again.  How about her "there`s lots of lovely investment" at the RNS?  Does it look truthful to you?  Or am i taking that out of context as well?  [8-)]

Some of us weigh up a situation and form an opinion based on what we know, allowing it to change as other information comes to light, others form an opinion then look for anything they can find to back it up, whilst ignoring or belittling anything which doesn`t fit in with what they believe.  When it comes to examples of the latter i honestly don`t know why i bother.....a sucker for hopeless causes i suppose.

[Match Day Pie 0]

YC:

Spot on. He won''t learn, though - this forum is the only lifeline the likes of him and other attention-craving cretins can cling on to.

Sad, really. 

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

BDU, i asked you several weeks ago whether you were related to a boardmember (after a non-commital reply to someone suggesting as much) and stated that "if you say no i will take it at face value".  You said no and i haven`t mentioned it since- it`s you who keeps bringing it up.  Why?

There are now a wealth of Delia statements which seem less than honest and if you can`t see the bigger picture yet there is no point going through it again.  How about her "there`s lots of lovely investment" at the RNS?  Does it look truthful to you?  Or am i taking that out of context as well?  [8-)]

Some of us weigh up a situation and form an opinion based on what we know, allowing it to change as other information comes to light, others form an opinion then look for anything they can find to back it up, whilst ignoring or belittling anything which doesn`t fit in with what they believe.  When it comes to examples of the latter i honestly don`t know why i bother.....a sucker for hopeless causes i suppose.

[/quote]You have ''asked'' about any links to the board I might have on more than one occasion, you have tried to make out my opinions can''t be as good as yours as I am based in Australia, you say I am ''bewitched'' by Delia. It happens every time you can''t respond to what I am saying.There are several Delia statements that seem less than clever (the RNS whittering being typical) but none that suggest she is less than honest. Once again, link me to a quote (the whole one, not edited highlights) if you can. You have raised concerns about the way the club has been run, thats fair enough we all have them. However, rather than look around the rest of the game to see if similar situations happen at other clubs, you remain insular and try and find the answers in the club. Just pay attention to what other clubs go through, it isn''t so different. Do some research. You will find that the comments ("where has the money gone" / "why has our board no ambition") are filling the message boards of about half the Championship clubs right now. Our performances on the pitch have been worse than most, meaning that fan''s frustration levels have been higher than most, that is because our financial situation has hampered us at the same time we have hired a terrible manager, and our academy has failed to give us enough decent first team options (or enough of a revenue stream from player sales). Why you focus on the off field investments beats me, they will return money that the club needs. The Cullum ''offer'' has gone, it never was a formal offer, why bang on about it? Hiring Grant, allowing the ''holiday camp'' attitude to exist, and letting the Academy suck in money for little return are more valid criticisms of the Board, and if you talked about them you might find we actually agree on more than you think.Just blaming Delia is the easy way - looking at the context of all that has happened, and fathoming out that it is a bit more complicated than that takes a bit more effort. The Delia witch hunt has now got to the state where the likes of Cluck can write the rubbish he does, and some people will actually agree. It has to stop for the good of the club.

[. 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

MDP and BDU, no-one other than maybe a few text-speak idiots has ever posted anything like that about Delia.  By the same token i could post that both of you are bewitched by a fading celebrity who you view as a saint who can do no wrong, but it`s a bit silly really isn`t it?

There is plenty of evidence backing up MDU`s statement regarding Delias over-sensitivity, from her "I saved the club" outbursts at any criticism, to my friend who asked difficult questions at the AGM being invited to meet her to "explain what your problem is with me".  She seems to view criticism of the club as criticism of herself and i think that in some peoples minds the two things have ceased to be seperate entities.

Now, as we are all NCFC supporters why don`t we start putting as much thought and effort into what is best for the CLUB as a whole, rather than one individual who happens to be running it at the moment?

[/quote]

As good a comment as I''ve read on here.

When I state that Smith has hijacked the "soul" of the club, this is exactly what is inferred. In years gone by the whole emphasis of the average NCFC fan was the club itself...and the players on the park. Now it has become the sensitivities of one individual.

As long as it stays this way we are lost and will remain floating in a stagnant pool of myth and deceit until it is eventually stopped. I find it staggeringly difficult to understand why so many still remain blinded by the "saviour" spin and can''t let go for the sake of the whole......

Mr. Carrow...I''ve no idea who you are but your finger is placed perfectly on the pulse of this once proud club of ours......

[/quote]

I agree Carrow and Cluck, however may I put it to you that by picking at everything Delia says and does that it is yourselves who have made her the sole focus in the first place? Most of us are happy to go about our daily lives wondering which players we do/do not have, who the next one will be, what the next result will be and what it all means.  Only a small number choose to carry on about Delia the whole time and you two are as guilty of that as anyone.

So does this mean you''re turning over a new leaf and will henceforth be ignoring Delia and concentrating on the joys of this wonderful club? Can I get a Hallelujah?![:D]
[/quote]

I''m afraid through business connections I knew of Smith''s dismissive attitude towards this club and it''s supporters way before it became more general knowledge. It has only ever been about her and her personal ego. I went out on a limb on here to go against the "saviour" image so cynically portrayed and blindly believed by many and got caned for it....but feel this only proves the point that I have far more affection for the club itself than the individual who has "hijacked" it''s soul. This is not the case for a great many of you who think the demise of NCFC is "incidental" to Smith rather than "fundamental" to it....

Unfortunately we cannot ignore Smith...as she is the one person holding it back and thus allowing the decay to become chronic. Peter Cullum holds out hope for the ambitious...but here again we come up against the barrier Smith has built to defend her fortress.

I would also suggest one further point...Norwich is a "small" City with very few major businessmen/women operating within it. This makes holding the reigns at Carrow Road a high status position for anyone to look down on others (similar to the role of "captain" at a snooty members only golf club). Smith has been aware of the threat to her status from Peter Cullum for some considerable time and has become paranoid about the whole affair. Knowing that her majority holding (deliberate policy) excludes any likelihood of being "removed" by PC....she jumps into bed (metaphorically) with the Turners ( small time business opponents of Peter Cullum) and childishly sticks to two fingers up to him. This is typical of small time/small town football clubs badly run by people out of their depth...but keen to "cock a snook" at others more worthy who threaten them.

Peter Cullum is fully aware of the game being played and thus came in with the very offer that Smith publicly stated she would accept...and duly called her bluff. If you can''t see or understand this scenario then you are truly under the celebrity spell cast by Smith over a decade ago. It''s our club she is playing with....and it quite simply has to end.

So I say...good on you Peter Cullum. Whatever your intentions you have exposed Smith and Co. for what they are and I hope it comes to pass that her painfully naive flock eventually wise up. It''s sad for me to see the good people of Norfolk so foolishly hoodwinked as I thought they were better than that........

[/quote]

This post is nothing but character assassination from the anonymity of a message board. The comments from the above post that I have highlighted in red attack the character of Delia Smith but provide no points or substance to back up those attacks. That, my friends, is called character assassination and, in my view should be banned from this or any public forum. Take the first point where the poster claims he knew, through his business connections,  of Delia''s dismissive attitude towards this club and its supporters. Where are the specific backup points from the posters experience to substantiate such a claim. They are not listed.   

When I posted some time ago that the purpose of Cluck on this forum was to spread poison some thought my comments were harsh. As posters, this forum is providing us with the freedom to make comments towards each other from a position of anonymity. Lots of poking, ribbing and the like occurs between us. When we decide to launch an attack on a person''s real name, however, whether it''s Delia or someone else, we have a responsibility to ensure those attacks are, at the very least, supported with factual input. This is the fair way for civilised people to behave.  

[/quote]

You really are a silly old fool aren''t you Yank? Sat over there in your faux Ivory Tower without a bloody clue of what is actually going on on the ground.

Save it for someone who is bothered eh?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]

You really are a silly old fool aren''t you Yank? Sat over there in your faux Ivory Tower without a bloody clue of what is actually going on on the ground.

Save it for someone who is bothered eh?[/quote]

Is that the sound of a bird that doesn''t like the sound of a nail being hit on its'' head ?  Cluck''s had his cage rattled, hope the door hasn''t been left open...

[. 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

I''m afraid through business connections I knew of Smith''s dismissive attitude towards this club and it''s supporters way before it became more general knowledge. It has only ever been about her and her personal ego. I went out on a limb on here to go against the "saviour" image so cynically portrayed and blindly believed by many and got caned for it....but feel this only proves the point that I have far more affection for the club itself than the individual who has "hijacked" it''s soul. This is not the case for a great many of you who think the demise of NCFC is "incidental" to Smith rather than "fundamental" to it....

Unfortunately we cannot ignore Smith...as she is the one person holding it back and thus allowing the decay to become chronic. Peter Cullum holds out hope for the ambitious...but here again we come up against the barrier Smith has built to defend her fortress.

I would also suggest one further point...Norwich is a "small" City with very few major businessmen/women operating within it. This makes holding the reigns at Carrow Road a high status position for anyone to look down on others (similar to the role of "captain" at a snooty members only golf club). Smith has been aware of the threat to her status from Peter Cullum for some considerable time and has become paranoid about the whole affair. Knowing that her majority holding (deliberate policy) excludes any likelihood of being "removed" by PC....she jumps into bed (metaphorically) with the Turners ( small time business opponents of Peter Cullum) and childishly sticks to two fingers up to him. This is typical of small time/small town football clubs badly run by people out of their depth...but keen to "cock a snook" at others more worthy who threaten them.

Peter Cullum is fully aware of the game being played and thus came in with the very offer that Smith publicly stated she would accept...and duly called her bluff. If you can''t see or understand this scenario then you are truly under the celebrity spell cast by Smith over a decade ago. It''s our club she is playing with....and it quite simply has to end.

So I say...good on you Peter Cullum. Whatever your intentions you have exposed Smith and Co. for what they are and I hope it comes to pass that her painfully naive flock eventually wise up. It''s sad for me to see the good people of Norfolk so foolishly hoodwinked as I thought they were better than that........

 

[/quote]

See Fat.. this type of post is not far removed from those "zigger zagger" chants against Watling.  Protest is ok when it''s defined what the protest is about. But here we are fuelling the protest with personal opinion about Delia Smith''s character with no facts to back it up. Many of you may feel comfortable with this type of thing but I never will.

As for suggesting Norwich is a "small" City in order to make a point...

 I believe something similar has been done before.

 

[/quote]

And your post clearly shows why folks with a certain mentality avidly watch Coronation Street and the like. Real life really isn''t like that you know. If you object to my comment that Norwich is a "small City" you need to do your research matey. Rather like Salisbury it is compact and not spralling...and lacking in heavy industry. In a word ....special....

I''m Norwich born and bred...and I suspect the majority on here cannot say the same. That in itself allows me to describe my home City how I choose.

Nuff said really......

[. 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]

You really are a silly old fool aren''t you Yank? Sat over there in your faux Ivory Tower without a bloody clue of what is actually going on on the ground.

Save it for someone who is bothered eh?[/quote]

Is that the sound of a bird that doesn''t like the sound of a nail being hit on its'' head ?  Cluck''s had his cage rattled, hope the door hasn''t been left open...

[/quote]

Blublub...it would take much more than you little lot to rattle me. However...it''s amusing watching you try....

NEXT.......

 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="nutty"]See Fat.. this type of post is not far removed from those "zigger zagger" chants against Watling.  Protest is ok when it''s defined what the protest is about. But here we are fuelling the protest with personal opinion about Delia Smith''s character with no facts to back it up. Many of you may feel comfortable with this type of thing but I never will.

As for suggesting Norwich is a "small" City in order to make a point...

I believe something similar has been done before.

[/quote]

[quote]

I''m Norwich born and bred...and I suspect the majority on here cannot say the same. That in itself allows me to describe my home City how I choose.

Nuff said really......

[/quote]

You try and defend your stance on Nuttys'' small point, but as you don''t challenge Nuttys'' main point, you know the bit in bold, I''m guessing you accept that your character assasination on Delia to attempt to whip up fervour was unfair ?

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

And your post clearly shows why folks with a certain mentality avidly watch Coronation Street and the like. Real life really isn''t like that you know. If you object to my comment that Norwich is a "small City" you need to do your research matey. Rather like Salisbury it is compact and not spralling...and lacking in heavy industry. In a word ....special....

I''m Norwich born and bred...and I suspect the majority on here cannot say the same. That in itself allows me to describe my home City how I choose.

Nuff said really......

[/quote]

You are not Cluck, you are not even a poor imitation of Cluck. The real Cluck would have immediately understood the point I was making about a "small" city.

Anyway, your pathetic attempts to join in the conversations on this thread have done more than I could to prove the points I was making to Fat.

 

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="Match Day Pie"][quote user="Fat Pineapple"][quote user="Match Day Pie"]

Honestly, some of you really are fecking idiots. The whole point of writing about Delia having spoken to somebody who''s worked closely her was that unless any of you have been that close, you can''t make assumptions.

So what do you do? Make assumptions!

''If, as you seem to be suggesting, her fragile ego is being put before the good of the club'' etc etc etc etc

What is wrong with you? Where did I ''suggest'' anything? The whole point of it was to say there is no point in speculating about Delia''s intentions and so on because you don''t have any proof. So what do you do? Take fact and turned it into fiction. Yet again. Which will always happen when you put your own opinions in front of what is actually known.

Again, I am no lover of the board or Delia but this endless nonsense about what she may or may not be thinking will not help any of us in the long run, and just creates bad feeling.

[/quote]

MDP this is a discussion forum not a court of law.  It''s all about opinions.  None of us knows the whole truth or even half of it.  And of course we don''t know exactly what''s going on in Delia''s mind.  But to me it seems increasingly obvious that the workings of Delia''s mind play a far larger part in the fortunes of Norwich City than they ought to, and that there are other people at the top of this club who are shirking their responsibilities by letting it happen.  That''s just my opinion fwiw.

 

[/quote] I wouldn''t disagree with that at all, because that''s a far more reasonable statement on what''s going on at CR rather than the more offensive posts that claim to know exactly what she''s thinking.[/quote]

So why hasn''t anyone on the board told us whats going on?

[Match Day Pie 0]

AW:

Who knows... it would be nice if they were somewhat more forthcoming. It''s understandable that certain things stay behind closed doors but this actually goes back to my earlier point; I think there''s a siege mentality which started during the Worthy era and has just got worse.

Regardless of what the board did right or wrong then (and let''s not get into that now...) there was a very unsavoury and personal element to the attacks on Worthy and Delia. Criticism was valid, but not some of the bile thrown their way. And it''s continued towards Delia ever since. I''d defy anyone not to go to ground after the amount of insults thrown her way.

Unfortunately it''s gone past the point of sensible, constructive criticism and until it gets back to that, there isn''t much hope of us learning anything.

[yellow hammer 0]

[quote user="Big Down Under"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

MDP and BDU, no-one other than maybe a few text-speak idiots has ever posted anything like that about Delia.  By the same token i could post that both of you are bewitched by a fading celebrity who you view as a saint who can do no wrong, but it`s a bit silly really isn`t it?

There is plenty of evidence backing up MDU`s statement regarding Delias over-sensitivity, from her "I saved the club" outbursts at any criticism, to my friend who asked difficult questions at the AGM being invited to meet her to "explain what your problem is with me".  She seems to view criticism of the club as criticism of herself and i think that in some peoples minds the two things have ceased to be seperate entities.

Now, as we are all NCFC supporters why don`t we start putting as much thought and effort into what is best for the CLUB as a whole, rather than one individual who happens to be running it at the moment?

[/quote]
Thats not actually true is it? You yourself bang on about how she has lied to us (despite the fact that you need to read ''abridged'' versions of her quotes to back up the view). Cluck and others regularly state their views about her being a third rate celebrity, how she ''likes a drink'', how she is only in it for a profit or to help her sell books.

Also I have critised her plenty, but its funny how this gets overlooked.  Her hiring of Grant, the state of the Academy,  the whole seeming mindset about the club, all signs that things haven''t been all rosy and all things I have mentioned on various threads. I am also uneasy about some of the off field investments, but can''t criticise too hard on this as I don''t understand the full plans or potential of these investments. Those who bang on about hotels and restaurants just don''t understand that we NEED these activities, to help fund the team. Selling out the ground each week doesn''t make us a rich club anymore. But failing to criticise her over everything gets you branded as being ''bewitched'' by her, or Doncaster, or a relative of a board member. Utter and total crap.

Before some posters can think of what is best for the club as a whole, you included, you need to get over this whole Delia thing and actually look at what she has done well, as well as what she has done badly, and what environment she is working in (by this I mean the economic realities of running a modern Championship football club). But you won''t. You will use your dislike of her to try and heap more pressure on the club, which is exactly what they don''t need right now.
[/quote]

BDU (and MDP), I am a little perplexed to understand what conclusion you reach as to the way forward for the Club, as what you are saying about the malaise at the Club (highlighted in bold) is not so very different to my own analysis of the issues facing NCFC.

Since we all seem to agree there are problems, the first thing is to ask - do we want to raise these issues and perhaps do what we can to resolve them, or should we just ignore them and hope the issues will just go away? As you are thoughtful posters, I assume you would rather the former than the later, even if what we can acheive as fans is not so much as other parties can acheive. At the very least we can bring public opinion to bear upon the principals.

So if we do not bury our head in the sand, surely the next thing we have to do after realising we have a problem is to identify where the problems lay. We''ve had thousands of posts on the subject and without raking over old ground too much, can we agree that the main problem lies with the board? Short term problems can be placed at players, at coaching staff or at the manager, but over a longer period of time, when players, coaching staff and managers have all come and gone and the problems still exist, then would you agree with me that we have to start looking at the board as the main root cause of our present troubles? Given that many of the issues relate to the balance of investment between fixed assets and the playing squad, this has to be evidence that we should be looking at the board. And finally, the absolute level of investment is determined more by the private wealth of the board members than by the fan''s contribution via season tickets, merchandising etc.

My next point is that if we have identified the root cause of the problem, shouldn''t we then be working out how to fix the problem? I would like to know what you guys see as the solution? Do think we should do nothing? Hope that Glen gets it right? Hope that we''re lucky with injuries? Wait until less-well-run clubs have gone bankrupt?

I believe the current board has taken the club as far as they can given the funds available to them, and the funds that they seem willing to invest. Even if by some miracle we were to be promoted this season, I believe the fundamental problems will remain, because on historical evidence Premiership income will once again go into off-field activities. I would love to be proved wrong but I see no evidence why I would be proved wrong. BDU, you mention that we have to look outside our club and see that we are not alone in our problems, the root cause being that - despite English football having more money than it has ever done in its history - most clubs are in poor financial condition.

Given this, I arrive at a conclusion. The solution is, NCFC needs new investment and it has to be spent on the squad. Other than the FA/Football League/Premier League agreeing to redistribute football''s wealth more evenly throughout the divisions (to which they will never willingly agree), the only way I can see us getting anywhere the new investment we require is through a wealthy benefactor. Do you guys see another way to getting, say 20 million quid, to spend on quality players?

If it means the current board has to step down, then so be it. If it means the CEO being replaced by another suit, then that''s the price that has to be paid. There will be pain for some but the best interests of the club have to be put before any one individual.

So BDU, MDP, and Yankee too, this is how I want to go from where we are now to where we want to be - how do you guys envisage making the journey from today''s starting point to the Premiership?