Newell shots himself in the foot!

[Mook 0]

[quote user="John Boubepo"][quote user="Mook"]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

Don''t worry Mook, blaming the PC brigade is now a nationwide accepted defence for any outdated opinion. I believe there was a supplement in Saturdays Daily Mail detailing situations where it was acceptable to use such a defence!

[/quote]

What terrifies me is that it''s THESE people who are being shepherded around, governed by fear and controlled by propaganda.

Sheded talks about the flag-burners - I''ve never seen one, have you? Not even in the (non right-wing) newspapers.

The people trying to change christmas - who are they? I''ve never seen anyone on the news, or in the papers trying to change christmas, have you? And again, I''m referring to main-stream news, not something the Mail pulled out from nowhere. If it''s 1 in a million, then it''s not worth worrying about!

Paranoia is a useful tool for the newpapers to create. It makes people feel that they will miss out on vital information if they don''t buy that paper.

Look at the USA if you want to see paranoia at large. Same gun laws as Canada, except NOBODY has been shot in 20 years in Canada, and even that was an American!

[/quote]

That''s a good one mook, I lived in Canada for four years and I can recall two fatal shootings myself during that time, one was actually by an Englishman. Don''t believe everything you read in a newspaper!
[/quote]

Found the stat:

Gun Homocides in 2000 - Canada 165, Germany 381, Australia 65, Japan 39, USA 11,127

( Courtesy of the film "Bowling for Columbine", which is probably twisted by Michael Moore to make the States look as bad as possible... )

[The Post Ghost 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

I read the Daily Mail, and I also think that Phoney Tony Blair - isn''t fit to lace Maggie Thatcher''s bodice.....I hold Conservative views, and I also think that this Labour ''Government'' are a bunch of .........Thomas the Tankers......

I may be an idiot, but I''m not stupid!

Each to there own I say........as long as verbal, physical and mental abuse are not forthcoming. Oops! Is Thomas the Tanker verbal abuse?

[/quote]

My dear Mello..

How nice to know you still think of me. Thank you for those kind words about my bodice. Your avatar reminds me that I need to buy some new knickers from M&S.

I agree this Labour Governments results have ranged between the merely shabby and the truly catastrophic. Phoney Tony Blair should remember that every Prime Minister needs a Willie.

However, we mustn''t lose sight of what this thread is all about. Mr. Newell should think of me too. He should remember me saying that if you want something said ask a man but if you want something done ask a woman. It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen that lays the eggs. I was brought up by a Victorian grandmother and we were taught to work jolly hard and in the same way this lineswoman got where she is through hard work. I would like to see her go on and on and on. Just like I did.

Please could you pass on this message to that wizard chap : You turn if you want to, the lady’s not for turning.

Thank you.

[sheded 0]

And Sheded, you do read the Mail!!      Replies to Mooks  po

--------------------------------------------------------------

No I don`t !   do you read the Guardian ?    you know , that left wing rag   full of jobs  for marxists / leninists  ?   example,  " assistant stress councillor for the   underprivilaged  , vertically challenged  ,  persons, with emotional problems  associated with  extreme  aerial experiences   whilst earning a living   "  ,     ( somebody complained  about a dwarf throwing contest  )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

''Guy Fawkes has been banned by council bosses in east London - and replaced with a Bengali foYeah, it was some nonsense in the film "Bowling for Columbine", I think. Obviously there''s been murders in Canada, I was trying to point out the difference between the Americans "Oh My God, here they come" and the Canadians'' more relaxed, less paranoid approachlk tale. Tower Hamlets said it wanted to provide an "alternative" theme to celebrate November 5 and the attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament,''

What they fail to mention is that there is still fireworks, and a bonfire, and since Tower Hamlets introduced an annual theme attendances at the event have risen from 3,000 to 23,000.

You would rather a crappy story about Guy Fawkes attempting to BLOW UP the Houses of Parliament - just to remind you, this is a building of enormous British culture and history - than a lovely little Bengali folk tale??

You would rather "our children" got to learn about terrorism than a nice little folk tale about "Moghul Emperor, the Wise Man and the Guardian of the Jungle

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I want , is for the kids to know the truth !   pleasant or unpleasant !    you seem to want them to go through life   in a world of  lala   , where terrorism doesn`t exist  , there was no such thing as Guy Fawkes ,  Christmas  is evil ,   the British empire never existed  [ some attempts have been made  to eradicate any mention of this from the curriculum )   the list goes on ......

Its called  brain washing   ,  and the Guardianistas just love to manipulate kids minds , don`t they ?  whats the story they`re giving about 7/7   ?  " noble  fighters for freedom"   as  the kiddiwinks   trot by   survivors of a tube explosion   with limbs missing   , and faces mangled ......  what do the parents say to them when they get home ?   , "   Its all just a lovely little Bengali tale " ,  give me strength   !

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, it was some nonsense in the film "Bowling for Columbine", I think. Obviously there''s been murders in Canada, I was trying to point out the difference between the Americans "Oh My God, here they come" and the Canadians'' more relaxed, less paranoid approach

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whats THAT about ?   why don`t you just come out and admit you  got it completely wrong ?  or is this just another lovely little Bengali tale ?

As for  Canadians  being  more relaxed   and less paranoid than yanks  , this doesn`t tally with the annual suicide rate !!   or are you referring to the yanks being more paranoid  about terrorism ?  that aint being paranoid !  its called reality ! ....... you know  , like watching 2 thousand people die horribly   at 9 / 11 

[Mook 0]

Calm down, Sheded. I don''t know which point to answer first!

Re my assertion that nobody had ever been shot in Canada, yes, I made the facts up with wild exaggerations (because I couldn''t remember them!) but the reality is not far different. 160ish gun homocides to 11,127?!? Anyway, sorry for that irresponsibility.

Suicide is a little different from Homocide, don''t you think?! Ok, so Canada is a bit depressing. But it''s hardly the same as shouting "Land of the Free, God Bless America!" and shooting anyone that comes on your patch, or beeps their car horn at you.

And you seem to be associating the learning of a Bengali folk tale with 9/11. Errr, how? Not all foreigners (even those scary Muslims) are dangerous and evil. Your points scare me.

Guy Fawkes is hardly a realistic tale, is it? Just some plot that was foiled. They scapegoated him to make the government and monarchy look "all-powerful" and scare the citizens. Then they burnt him. Not very nice, is it, really? And it''s not at all religion based.

There is evil everywhere you look, ever heard of Combat 18 (white folks)? Brothers from the Crypt (black folks)? Nation of Islam (anyone!)? Ku Klux Klan?

We are a nation of immigrants, so is america and australia - I''m from Viking heritage, Romans, Dutch, Irish, French etc etc.

England owned 3/4 of the world when the Queen was crowned. How do you think we got that? Going round and asking politely if we could use their country, impose our religion, relocate their indigenous people and "borrow" their wives?!

I hardly think the world is in a perfect state, but it never has been! It''s just that before, we (the English) were ok. Now we''re under threat. But it''s not just "everyone elses" fault. If we make an effort to get along with people, and they make an effort to get along with us, we might have a chance to save it.

Sadly though, I think that predjudice from both sides is now out of control. But  I''m not going to build myself a "bunker" because I would rather have faith in human nature that it''ll turn out alright in the end.

PS - I don''t read any newspaper, because they are all poisoned with political back-scratching and biased in whichever way. Apart from the sports sections, which is all fiction anyway!

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="sheded"]

And Sheded, you do read the Mail!!      Replies to Mooks  po

--------------------------------------------------------------

No I don`t !   do you read the Guardian ?    you know , that left wing rag   full of jobs  for marxists / leninists  ?   example,  " assistant stress councillor for the   underprivilaged  , vertically challenged  ,  persons, with emotional problems  associated with  extreme  aerial experiences   whilst earning a living   "  ,     ( somebody complained  about a dwarf throwing contest  )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

''Guy Fawkes has been banned by council bosses in east London - and replaced with a Bengali foYeah, it was some nonsense in the film "Bowling for Columbine", I think. Obviously there''s been murders in Canada, I was trying to point out the difference between the Americans "Oh My God, here they come" and the Canadians'' more relaxed, less paranoid approachlk tale. Tower Hamlets said it wanted to provide an "alternative" theme to celebrate November 5 and the attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament,''

What they fail to mention is that there is still fireworks, and a bonfire, and since Tower Hamlets introduced an annual theme attendances at the event have risen from 3,000 to 23,000.

You would rather a crappy story about Guy Fawkes attempting to BLOW UP the Houses of Parliament - just to remind you, this is a building of enormous British culture and history - than a lovely little Bengali folk tale??

You would rather "our children" got to learn about terrorism than a nice little folk tale about "Moghul Emperor, the Wise Man and the Guardian of the Jungle

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I want , is for the kids to know the truth !   pleasant or unpleasant !    you seem to want them to go through life   in a world of  lala   , where terrorism doesn`t exist  , there was no such thing as Guy Fawkes ,  Christmas  is evil ,   the British empire never existed  [ some attempts have been made  to eradicate any mention of this from the curriculum )   the list goes on ......

Its called  brain washing   ,  and the Guardianistas just love to manipulate kids minds , don`t they ?  whats the story they`re giving about 7/7   ?  " noble  fighters for freedom"   as  the kiddiwinks   trot by   survivors of a tube explosion   with limbs missing   , and faces mangled ......  what do the parents say to them when they get home ?   , "   Its all just a lovely little Bengali tale " ,  give me strength   !

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, it was some nonsense in the film "Bowling for Columbine", I think. Obviously there''s been murders in Canada, I was trying to point out the difference between the Americans "Oh My God, here they come" and the Canadians'' more relaxed, less paranoid approach

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whats THAT about ?   why don`t you just come out and admit you  got it completely wrong ?  or is this just another lovely little Bengali tale ?

As for  Canadians  being  more relaxed   and less paranoid than yanks  , this doesn`t tally with the annual suicide rate !!   or are you referring to the yanks being more paranoid  about terrorism ?  that aint being paranoid !  its called reality ! ....... you know  , like watching 2 thousand people die horribly   at 9 / 11 

[/quote]

Ignore the cheap shots sheded........''modern reality''  is only allowable now via crappy television shows (wife swap etc) and the tender British people must be safeguarded from horrible real truths if at all possible.....for fear of them forming an opinion of their own. That''s how it''s become and why ''off the wall'' views are now deemed ''not politically correct''. It''s a creeping disease that tries to make everyone the same and destroy individuality.

We may not always agree but it''s nice to see that you hold strong individual opinions......long may it continue! When any free thinker says what he thinks in this country now, he is branded a racist, extremist etc etc.That''s how the truth has been manipulated. It''s up to all of us now to decide whether society continues down this road....or whether we value individuality enough to fight back........I know what I intend to do anyway.

[mbncfc 1]

[quote user="Mook"]

Calm down, Sheded. I don''t know which point to answer first!

Re my assertion that nobody had ever been shot in Canada, yes, I made the facts up with wild exaggerations (because I couldn''t remember them!) but the reality is not far different. 160ish gun homocides to 11,127?!? Anyway, sorry for that irresponsibility.

Suicide is a little different from Homocide, don''t you think?! Ok, so Canada is a bit depressing. But it''s hardly the same as shouting "Land of the Free, God Bless America!" and shooting anyone that comes on your patch, or beeps their car horn at you.

And you seem to be associating the learning of a Bengali folk tale with 9/11. Errr, how? Not all foreigners (even those scary Muslims) are dangerous and evil. Your points scare me.

Guy Fawkes is hardly a realistic tale, is it? Just some plot that was foiled. They scapegoated him to make the government and monarchy look "all-powerful" and scare the citizens. Then they burnt him. Not very nice, is it, really? And it''s not at all religion based.

There is evil everywhere you look, ever heard of Combat 18 (white folks)? Brothers from the Crypt (black folks)? Nation of Islam (anyone!)? Ku Klux Klan?

We are a nation of immigrants, so is america and australia - I''m from Viking heritage, Romans, Dutch, Irish, French etc etc.

England owned 3/4 of the world when the Queen was crowned. How do you think we got that? Going round and asking politely if we could use their country, impose our religion, relocate their indigenous people and "borrow" their wives?!

I hardly think the world is in a perfect state, but it never has been! It''s just that before, we (the English) were ok. Now we''re under threat. But it''s not just "everyone elses" fault. If we make an effort to get along with people, and they make an effort to get along with us, we might have a chance to save it.

Sadly though, I think that predjudice from both sides is now out of control. But  I''m not going to build myself a "bunker" because I would rather have faith in human nature that it''ll turn out alright in the end.

PS - I don''t read any newspaper, because they are all poisoned with political back-scratching and biased in whichever way. Apart from the sports sections, which is all fiction anyway!

[/quote]

Mook, I think you make some excellent points here.

These aren''t cheap shots. They''re not even quick points! I posted a few days ago about this idea of being ''British''. I''m assuming no one answered it because I was correct [;)]

This is much more than being PC I''m afraid. This is about understanding and tolerance. Essentially it is about Nationalism. This certainly isn''t about good and evil...

History teaches a lot. Sadly people tend to forget about it...[^o)]

[The Post Ghost 0]

My Dear Cluckaduck..

We are both strong women, Iron Ladies if you like. This country is swamped with socialist "do gooders" who run up other peoples bills. This dependency culture has weakened society as a whole. I believe the British people should be safeguarded from terror and the wishywashy press should starve the terrorist of the oxygen of publicity.

But please don''t lose sight of the matter in hand. I usually make my mind up about a man in ten seconds and I rarely change it. I have made my mind up about Mr. Newell and he was wrong. Amy Rayner has a womans ability to stick to a job and get on with it when everyone else walks away and leaves it. My message to her is that there is plenty of room at the top. After all, she didn''t give the same player three yellow cards!

Thank you.

[Mook 0]

Cluck, would you mind, if it''s not prying too much, to tell me where you have lived in your life? Just a broad outline, or just tell me to bugger off if you''d rather.

[Chip20 69]

Er...seven pages of insult-trading on and I still haven''t read an urrefutable reason why a qualified and capable female should not be allowed to operate as an assistant referee in a football game where the participants are male.

[mbncfc 1]

I almost forgot this was about Mike Newell... [:D]

He won''t be at Luton by the end of the season - more due to the friction at the club, than his comments last week.

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="Lincoln Canary"]Er...seven pages of insult-trading on and I still haven''t read an urrefutable reason why a qualified and capable female should not be allowed to operate as an assistant referee in a football game where the participants are male.[/quote]

That''s because there isn''t one.

We have been given reasons why "tokenism" shouldn''t dictate that a woman be allowed to operate as an assistant referee in a football game where the participants are male. But to suggest that the assistant in question is indeed a qualified and capable female, and has in fact officiated in matches involving Mike Newell''s teams in the past without his criticism, is met with stoney silence.

 

[mbncfc 1]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Lincoln Canary"]Er...seven pages of insult-trading on and I still haven''t read an urrefutable reason why a qualified and capable female should not be allowed to operate as an assistant referee in a football game where the participants are male.[/quote]

That''s because there isn''t one.

We have been given reasons why "tokenism" shouldn''t dictate that a woman be allowed to operate as an assistant referee in a football game where the participants are male. But to suggest that the assistant in question is indeed a qualified and capable female, and has in fact officiated in matches involving Mike Newell''s teams in the past without his criticism, is met with stoney silence.

 

[/quote]

I hope the points I''ve made have been above insults. I do not feel I have insulted anyone...

Nutty, I''ll break the silence in backing you up. I completely agree, if you''re good enough, that''s all that is needed...

I don''t think you''ll get anyone breaking the silence to argue against it though (which is what you are really asking for), as I''m not sure that argument exists. If it does, I think we''d both welcome its appearance...

[Chip20 69]

[quote user="mbncfc"]

I hope the points I''ve made have been above insults. I do not feel I have insulted anyone...

Nutty, I''ll break the silence in backing you up. I completely agree, if you''re good enough, that''s all that is needed...

I don''t think you''ll get anyone breaking the silence to argue against it though (which is what you are really asking for), as I''m not sure that argument exists. If it does, I think we''d both welcome its appearance...

[/quote]

I do apologise; I certanly didn''t mean to imply that everybody has been trading insults. It''s just that I spent most of my lunch break reading through the thread and felt that it wandered off topic after about the first page, with many people either using provocative terminology ("Taliban", "do-gooders", "diddums", "sunshine", "idiots", and...er..."pillocks"!) , sarcasm, or belittling those who expressed views contrary to their own. NorCal Canary asked very early on whether anybody could reason why a capable female should not officiate, which, it seems to me, is the crux of the matter, and nobody answered the question. Instead it generally descended into the usual emotive arguments about freedom of speech versus consideration for people''s feelings instead of logical practicalities (except for the observation about a female official being surrounded by a group of hot-tempered men, which I think has a lot of merit).

For my own part, I can agree with elements from both sides of the argument in that I am all for responsible use of polictical correctness. It''s a concept designed to protect those of us less able to stand up for ourselves and promote the respect and consideration for our fellow human beings that many of us still seem to lack. On the other hand, though, I am against the ''tokenism'' that Newell himself complains of (people should be employed on their ability to do the job; not to fulfil quotas) and I''m against it''s misuse, which sheded furnished us with numerous fine examples of. I think Newell''s comments were ill-considered, but were uttered in the heat of the moment when he was upset that, in his view, Amy''s decision had cost his side a valuable point. Note that he rounded on his cahirman too, which has nowt to do with chauvinism. He has apologised and I think the matter should now be dropped.

[mbncfc 1]

All good LC, it was more me making a statement defending myself, than taking what you had posted personally... [Y]

I posted earlier in the thread that there''s no reason why this Amy bird (see what i did there...?!) can''t officiate if she''s good enough. Judging by a lot of the male officials that have been around for the last 15 years, this shouldn''t be too difficult... [;)]

I''ve said a couple of times, the reprimand from Luton that MN has received is as much, if not more to do with him slagging off his chairman. The guy was ranting after his team continued its bad run. He''s apologised too, so he understands how his remarks on the lineswoman sounded I''m sure. IMO the rift with his chairman, even if things settle down, will put him under pressure. I don''t expect him to still be there by the end of the season - but that won''t be because of his views on women.

But then, I''m a Norwich fan, so I can''t say I really care..

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

Cluck, would you mind, if it''s not prying too much, to tell me where you have lived in your life? Just a broad outline, or just tell me to bugger off if you''d rather.

[/quote]

No problem Mook. We are both lifelong Norwich fans and are therefore, despite our differences comrades in that respect. Like you I enjoy a bit of ''knockabout'' on these pages.......but PC is just my big issue in modern life and I get a little passionate about it! Left alone in a democracy....society finds it''s own level. Try to push the pace and it ends up in anarchy. A free thinker should be allowed to express an opinion no matter how ''off the wall'' it may be and it is then for others to agree or disagree. I don''t want female officials in the male game....others disagree. So who is right? Why should I have to accept this situation when I don''t want it? Alternately why should women not be allowed this role just because I don''t like it?

The thing is....this is being thrust on us and we literally have no say....other than to toe the official line and accept things. If this continues in all fields as it has under this Government....eventually the momentum takes on an unstoppable pace....and we are dragged into things like the Iraq war and so on.....because this is the official line. This linesman issue may seem like a very small matter....but it is all part of a bigger picture where choice is denied. You stated some time ago that you don''t like your country....Why?.....It''s a beautiful place with a decent climate....so maybe it is just the way it is at present that you don''t like. What also is wrong with being proud to be English? Is it because a few thugs have hijacked our flag? If so....why sit back and watch it happen?.....why not stand up and fight for our traditional values? Immigrants have flowed into Britain for decades because it is a great place to live.......and they are largely very welcome.....but does that welcome have to be extended to the gun thugs and criminals that have come in with them? Can we not speak out about what this group are doing without being called a racist? I don''t see colour in a murder Mook....I just see a gun or knife.....and if a particular group is largely resposible, we shouldn''t be afraid to say. That is freedom of speech.

In my short time on here I have had all manner of insults thrown my way. Why?....because I''m not afraid to think differently and say so. It doesn''t mean I am right.....but by aiming personal insults at me,  it makes me assume that my critics feel they are. I still say we should all learn to appreciate and celebrate difference....not try to make everyone the same. Women aren''t men....and men aren''t women......it''s a fact not an opinion.....so why try to deny what nature has produced?

Right.............

Up to age 13....Sprowston.

13-16.... Belfast....Galway....Monaghan.

16-18....Horsford.

18-23...Western Australia (including 12 bloody awful months in Viet Nam in Oz army).

23-24...Cape Town.

24-26...Horning.

26-27...Ibiza.

27-30...Lowestoft.

30-35...Christchurch (Dorset).....(8 months in India)

35-40...New Zealand

40 onwards between Norfolk and Southern UK (plus numerous overseas trips on business)!

Well.....you did ask!........[:)]

All of this lot has given me a pretty wide perspective on which to base my theories.....but as I try to say on my signature....I could well be wrong. It''s purely my own angle on life as I''ve seen it and that''s what forms our individual values. It''s like trying to say blue is better than red.........there is no definitive answer other than personal opinion.

Apologies for boring the a**e off fellow posters......but I was just answering a question.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="Lincoln Canary"]

For my own part, I can agree with elements from both sides of the argument in that I am all for responsible use of polictical correctness. It''s a concept designed to protect those of us less able to stand up for ourselves and promote the respect and consideration for our fellow human beings that many of us still seem to lack. On the other hand, though, I am against the ''tokenism'' that Newell himself complains of (people should be employed on their ability to do the job; not to fulfil quotas) and I''m against it''s misuse, which sheded furnished us with numerous fine examples of. I think Newell''s comments were ill-considered, but were uttered in the heat of the moment when he was upset that, in his view, Amy''s decision had cost his side a valuable point. Note that he rounded on his cahirman too, which has nowt to do with chauvinism. He has apologised and I think the matter should now be dropped.

[/quote]

As with most of the hot debates on this board I think most of us do see both sides of the argument and sit somewhere in the middle.

I am also against "tokenism" and it''s misuse but as far as I am aware she holds her place in the top 120 list on merit and has the same abilities and qualifications as many of  her male colleagues. I believe that Newell knew better as Amy Rayner had officiated at at least one of his teams matches previously. I am not aware of any previous complaints about female officials from Newell which suggests to me that he was quite happy until he felt she made a bad decision last weekend.

Yes Newell has apologised, saying the comments that he made after the game were ill-timed and out of order Though he added  he very rarely say''s things he doesn''t mean. Have the FA dropped the matter now?

 

[sheded 0]

Well , I`ll admit I  often leap  over the barricades  in a yakking contest !    I don`t actually regret all I said  , just that it  IS  veering wildly away from the threads subject   !  I don`t doubt for one minute that Amy  is a capable official  , probably more so than  a  lot of male refs !    just hope  that she  gets a bit better treatment  from the neanderthals  because she`s female ?

Newell has come in for plenty of abuse  because he uttered  non PC stuff  ,  which he later apologised for ,   judging from his remarks  , he`s under real pressure  from  Lutons  director  regarding   financing the  transfer of new players , which should strike a familiar chord ?   as far as I`m concerned  , he`d be far better off with a club  that admires honesty and directness  , with a flare  for getting the best   from a limited  bunch !    .......

Murphy  went to this KKK fancy dress party .............dressed as Al Jolson     [<:o)]

[mbncfc 1]

[quote user="cluckaduck"][quote user="Mook"]

Cluck, would you mind, if it''s not prying too much, to tell me where you have lived in your life? Just a broad outline, or just tell me to bugger off if you''d rather.

[/quote]

No problem Mook. We are both lifelong Norwich fans and are therefore, despite our differences comrades in that respect. Like you I enjoy a bit of ''knockabout'' on these pages.......but PC is just my big issue in modern life and I get a little passionate about it! Left alone in a democracy....society finds it''s own level. Try to push the pace and it ends up in anarchy. A free thinker should be allowed to express an opinion no matter how ''off the wall'' it may be and it is then for others to agree or disagree. I don''t want female officials in the male game....others disagree. So who is right? Why should I have to accept this situation when I don''t want it? Alternately why should women not be allowed this role just because I don''t like it?

The thing is....this is being thrust on us and we literally have no say....other than to toe the official line and accept things. If this continues in all fields as it has under this Government....eventually the momentum takes on an unstoppable pace....and we are dragged into things like the Iraq war and so on.....because this is the official line. This linesman issue may seem like a very small matter....but it is all part of a bigger picture where choice is denied. You stated some time ago that you don''t like your country....Why?.....It''s a beautiful place with a decent climate....so maybe it is just the way it is at present that you don''t like. What also is wrong with being proud to be English? Is it because a few thugs have hijacked our flag? If so....why sit back and watch it happen?.....why not stand up and fight for our traditional values? Immigrants have flowed into Britain for decades because it is a great place to live.......and they are largely very welcome.....but does that welcome have to be extended to the gun thugs and criminals that have come in with them? Can we not speak out about what this group are doing without being called a racist? I don''t see colour in a murder Mook....I just see a gun or knife.....and if a particular group is largely resposible, we shouldn''t be afraid to say. That is freedom of speech.

In my short time on here I have had all manner of insults thrown my way. Why?....because I''m not afraid to think differently and say so. It doesn''t mean I am right.....but by aiming personal insults at me,  it makes me assume that my critics feel they are. I still say we should all learn to appreciate and celebrate difference....not try to make everyone the same. Women aren''t men....and men aren''t women......it''s a fact not an opinion.....so why try to deny what nature has produced?

Right.............

Up to age 13....Sprowston.

13-16.... Belfast....Galway....Monaghan.

16-18....Horsford.

18-23...Western Australia (including 12 bloody awful months in Viet Nam in Oz army).

23-24...Cape Town.

24-26...Horning.

26-27...Ibiza.

27-30...Lowestoft.

30-35...Christchurch (Dorset).....(8 months in India)

35-40...New Zealand

40 onwards between Norfolk and Southern UK (plus numerous overseas trips on business)!

Well.....you did ask!........[:)]

All of this lot has given me a pretty wide perspective on which to base my theories.....but as I try to say on my signature....I could well be wrong. It''s purely my own angle on life as I''ve seen it and that''s what forms our individual values. It''s like trying to say blue is better than red.........there is no definitive answer other than personal opinion.

Apologies for boring the a**e off fellow posters......but I was just answering a question.

 

 

[/quote]

I found this all pretty interesting actually Cluck. I''d like to see a world map with all your travels marked on it, that''s for sure... [:D]

[John Boubepo 0]

[quote user="Herb"][quote user="John Boubepo"]That''s a good one mook, I lived in Canada for four years and I can recall two fatal shootings myself during that time, one was actually by an Englishman. Don''t believe everything you read in a newspaper![/quote]True enough, but Canada''s rate is miniscule per head of population vs the USA, despite the large proportion of gun owners.There is something about the USA which makes their citizens more likely to pop a cap in each others ass than pretty much any other nation. Paranoia sounds as good an explanation as any.[/quote]Canada with the second biggest land mass with a population smaller than England''s has created a very unique culture, I would have very strong doubts that newspaper articles in the USA or any other form of paranoia is responsible for their high level of gun deaths, the USA has developed it''s own culture, very different from Canada''s, unfortunately for them it includes shootin each others @rses off

[Cluck 0]

@mbncfc........

It may sound odd.......but if I had my time again I would settle for being a little country kid growing up in Norfolk and staying there! I think I can safely say that the grass is rarely greener over the other side of the fence and that our roots are ultimately what makes us content. A generalisation maybe....but for me whenever I see the Norfolk landscape before me and see Norwich on the signposts.......I feel complete.

A tad sentimental perhaps.....but we often don''t miss something until it''s not there anymore...........[:)]

[YankeeCanary 0]

I have read, with some amusement I must admit, inputs from Herb, John Boubepo, Mook as to the culture that exists in Canada and the USA. Most of what you have written is based upon sheer lack of knowledge. Herb of course, has an anti-American attitude, so anything from that quarter should be treated in a manner that is deserved by those with bigoted views. John, having lived in Canada for four years, should have more in-depth knowledge but may have failed to express it here.

I have lived in different cities across these two great countries for more than forty years. It is difficult for you to have an appreciation of the culture that exists in these countries because, if for no other reason, the UK represents less than 2% of the land area of each of these countries. Regardless of population size, the sheer area mass and terrain differences across these great lands result in many cultures existing here beyond the natural influence that comes from recent immigrants. Additionally, to put all Americans, for example, under an umbrella that "includes shootin each others @rses off" is not only insulting but does little for your own credibility. That is not something that concerns many, of course because of the anonymity this forum provides. Regardless of that anonymity I value my integrity more than to abuse it.

Are there significant problems in the USA with respect to crime. Of course. Even here in New Jersey, one of the smallest states in the nation, I would not set foot myself in Newark in the dark and certainly, would not allow my wife to do so. However, where we live in northwest New Jersey such a fear is foreign to us. Crime is a non-issue and I don''t think I can remember hearing of a shooting death. To give perpective in a relative sense, I would feel my wife is, by far, safer here if she was out at night than on the streets of Norwich. The way we feel about where we live in this part of New Jersey is the experience that many millions of people people feel about where they live in much of this country. If it isn''t, I must confess surprise as to why so many on this message board seem excited to come here on various visits. Have you been Herb?

With respect to Canada, great though the land area is, 95% of the population lives in a narrow band adjacent to the U.S. border. Having lived in different Canadian cities for more than a quarter of a century and raised a family there. despite increasing problems with crime over recent years, it is still a fine country to live in. However, there are now crime pockets that have formed in different cities that have grown significantly over recent years. Although this may not mean anything to those that have written with some knowledge of Canada, the Jane/Finch area of Toronto is not conducive to one''s safety at night and shootings are becoming more and more common. I would offer the same opinion on walking around in the small town of Kenora in Norther Ontario. However, walking around in downtown Toronto is still pleasant by my measure. Like many parts of the world, you apply your knowledge wisely once you have the knowledge.

Like Cluck, I have also traveled to many, many parts of the world and agree that helps widen one''s perspective. Of course, Cluck and I appear to differ on the Mike Newell situation ( which Cluck is okay with ). If what Mike Newell had to say about the female official as well as his Chairman was what he truly felt, so be it. When called on the issues, however, he appeared to have valued his job more than his previously stated positions. Which is why I believe he was foolish to utter what he did to begin with.  

[mbncfc 1]

@cluck... indeed! Despite my younger age, I''ve managed to scrape in some other landscapes. It doesn''t matter where you go, when you get home to the colour and view of Norfolk, it will always feel like home.  I guess though, that travelling will always improve the context and appreciation with which you view home [:D]

@Yankee... that''s a really interesting post. Thank you for bringing that in to the discussion... with wide-open eyes, it made very good and informative reading. [Y]

It''s extremely interesting how the dynamic of this thread has kept evolving. Good work guys. I wonder if other clubs'' boards discuss these things in such detail on football related threads? (I guess they probably do...)

[Troy Tempest 0]

Yankee, is there a website for your little town, it seems most have them?

[Herb 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

That is not something that concerns many, of course because of the anonymity this forum provides. Regardless of that anonymity I value my integrity more than to abuse it.

[/quote]Other than by accusing me of being a bigot?Just because I can see fault in certain aspects of US culture, it does not make me "anti-American" (America is a continent btw, not a country, "anti-US" would have been the correct wording...and you''d still have been wrong.I can see fault in aspects of UK and French culture too, does that make me "anti European"?Cut out the insults, some of what you say makes sense, but I find it hard to take you seriously when petty name calling is top of your agenda.

[Cluck 0]

Good post Yankee....and yes I am happy with any opinion expressed, as long as it doesn''t involve personal attack. We can only base our views on our own experiences and from what we hear via the media....so on the whole in the UK and the rest of the world, the States is taking a bit of a hammering. This is not an attack on the American public as such....but on the gung ho Government of GW......and the way Blair has led us up the garden path based on US intelligence.

Sadly the good gets pushed to the back of the queue during such times and when we see our soldiers fighting in a ''foreign war'' and coming home in coffins....it hurts. I spent a dreadful year in Viet Nam in just such a war fighting for a foreign country on an equally futile pretext.....so maybe I feel it all the more. Putting a friend''s body parts in a bag after an explosion and trying to find bits to send home haunts you forever. We shouldn''t be there and it''s time we all got wise to the warmongering psyche of politicians. Until it''s all over and some kind of sanity returns to things....America will be demonised by people. That''s how it is.....but maybe a final lesson has been learned in all this, that the day of the bomb is over and talking to your enemy is now the only way forward.

If I dare be a little controversial  (for a change?)....[:)]........I have noticed our culture in Britain change significantly of late. There is a big influence on the young regarding gang culture and gun and knife crime. This is a pandemic in parts of the States and our tv is now loaded with such tripe from US channels, almost glorifying it. Rap music too has an effect on thinking within certain groups and films make violent death seem almost fashionable. Whether we like it or not....the American culture comes across as violent and corrupt. Fundamental Christians waiting for the Holocaust....Amish children butchered....endless drug induced killings.....school slaughters.....even certain ''stars'' evading justice for child abuse etc. It happens everywhere of course....but it seems almost ''every day'' in the US. The cat is largely out of the bag throughout the world now however........and sadly there seems to be no answer to it.

The US has largely stood up as the only super power in the modern world....which is to some degree fine if you are on the right side.....but if you happen to be a Palestinian or Iraqi.....it breeds hatred and fear. The US is seen as the ''bully in the playground'' today and the ''do as I demand'' strategy will no longer work with terrorist groups or political factions. I''m sure the US genuinely feels it is doing the World a favour in it''s quest for US style democracy.....but it just doesn''t suit certain cultures and it''s time we all acknowledged that fact and left them alone.

I hope this will not be labelled as ''anti-American'' again.......as it is a fair view from where we in Britain stand.......and that is full square in the middle of it all.

[Mook 0]

I agree with 99.9 percent of everything you say there, Cluck. The .1 percent is the bit about rap music which, although I agree that it''s tiresome and repetetive hearing about girls and guns, IMO art reflects society and not the other way around. For example, the Rock n Roll era brought about by the post-war boom, or the lavish OTT eighties reflecting the expensive tastes of the era.

I am fascinated by America, every American I have met has been lovely, considerate and worldly - but these are the ones that have travelled. I am slightly less trusting of the Bible-Belt hicks who have never left their state, let alone country. And with a population of 250m, there must be a few of them about.

My beef with Sheded, and yourself to a certain extent Cluck, is that I don''t want to become "introverted", relying and basking on past glories and not "joining in" with the world. We will stunt our development if we are entirely inward-facing, and end up like Spain. A modern country, a healthy economy, but a nation that still "Monkey Chants" when black players play football. I think America spent too much time looking in the mirror, and was utterly shocked to find that the world felt anger and resentment towards them. I don''t want Britian to become like that.

There is a lot of blame culture in Britain, but nobody seems to do anything about it. Blame the foreigners, blame the government, blame the previous government, blame the manager, blame religion. Everybody says what a state the world is in, then does what suits them personally. "I don''t want to vote Tory, but I''ll get a tax break" or "I don''t want to vote Labour but the Green party will never get in".

There is a lot to be afraid of, but even more to learn from the rest of the world. I often wonder what the rest of the world thinks of us? Probably not too good an impression with recent events concerning the middle east...

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="cluckaduck"]

I have noticed our culture in Britain change significantly of late. There is a big influence on the young regarding gang culture and gun and knife crime. This is a pandemic in parts of the States and our tv is now loaded with such tripe from US channels, almost glorifying it. Rap music too has an effect on thinking within certain groups and films make violent death seem almost fashionable. Whether we like it or not....the American culture comes across as violent and corrupt. Fundamental Christians waiting for the Holocaust....Amish children butchered....endless drug induced killings.....school slaughters.....even certain ''stars'' evading justice for child abuse etc. It happens everywhere of course....but it seems almost ''every day'' in the US. The cat is largely out of the bag throughout the world now however........and sadly there seems to be no answer to it.

[/quote]

Blimey.. if all that''s gonna happen I guess keeping all male officials is a small price to pay [:)] [:P] [;)]

[Troy Tempest 0]

I spent a traumatic six months working in Nam.......................Faken-nam!

[Cluck 0]

Hey up Mook....nice that we can be pals yet not see everything totally eye to eye......[Y].......I reckon we must share the same hobby-horse eh?

To be honest I think half of my ''problem'' is that I have seen quite alot in my lifetime in foreign lands.....and when I take a long look at England.....despite it''s problems.....I feel it really takes some beating. That may account for my love of place....and in particular my home county. Every place has it''s merits as well as faults, but maybe having looked over the fence once too often in the past, I finally realise what I''ve got. I hope that makes sense? I never really encountered any animosity abroad and infact many people I''ve met wished they could live here. The Aussies love us really and know we can take a joke.....our sense of humour being the envy of everyone. I think the Iraq and Palestine catastrophe has put the mockers on some of our respect abroad....as have the holiday lager louts.....but on the whole we are appreciated for our politeness and integrity, which is good enough for me. As with the US though....once the politicians kick off......there is little the ordinary man can do about it except complain and wait for an election.

Point taken re the ''rap music'' element......and it''s possibly a knee jerk to something I don''t fully understand. All I know is that despite living in an almost totally ''white'' town....my eldest son still tries to use ''ghetto'' speak. It makes me crack up....but he and his mates all do it and the ''gang'' scene is the modern way to socialise.....plus it provides some ''safety'' in numbers.  They have just one Asian lad in their school and no Afro-Caribbeans at all........which to my mind is unhealthy and unreal.....but thankfully he hasn''t an ounce of racism in him....so there is some hope  at least!................[:)]

 

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="Troy Tempest"]I spent a traumatic six months working in Nam.......................Faken-nam![/quote]

And my mate Basil spent an awful six months stuck in Iraq................ a spice rack!