Arsenal - a question?

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

So in the 70''s & 80''s we had a style that was the envy of the world eh?

World Cup 1970 - QF

World Cup 1974 - Did not qualify

World Cup 1978 -Did not qualify

World Cup 1982 - 2nd Round

World Cup 1986 - QF

Not exactly groundbreaking stuff is it!

I agree about the extortionate prices in the Premiership, but I don''t think that you can put the blame for this squarely down to the influx of foreign players. Yes they''re paid well, but then so are likes of Terry, Gerrard, Rooney etc. Look at the sulk Ashley Cole went into when he found out he wasn''t getting paid as much as Thierry Henry,

[/quote]

I can''t really accept that the 70s and 80s were poor for English football.  What about the great Liverpool and Forest sides (among various others) who virtually controlled European competitions? The FA Cup was a great tournament then too with all manner of clubs reaching the finals and pulling off shock wins. The Football League was exciting and (apart from the hooligan element) was revered by everyone outside of England. Players were players and part of a team, rather than icons and celebrities above all else as they often are now.

As for the England team of the day.....post Ramsey the FA went into meltdown and it was more of a management issue as to why we didn''t make the World Cup. Few would disagree that had Clough been given the job the story would be very different. There were great players around and the Football League was the envy of the world. Even our own Norwich City weren''t too bad then either!

A personal view of why the national side has been poor is because of the dilution of the England pool of players by overseas ''stars''. Lampard and Terry etc. play alongside more technical players at Chelsea etc. and so become used to an entirely different style of play in domestic football....so when put together as an English unit they don''t compliment each other or gel. Management hasn''t been brilliant either under the Swede and now McLaren....so added together it is a bit of a mongrel.

[alex_ncfc 667]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

So in the 70''s & 80''s we had a style that was the envy of the world eh?

World Cup 1970 - QF

World Cup 1974 - Did not qualify

World Cup 1978 -Did not qualify

World Cup 1982 - 2nd Round

World Cup 1986 - QF

Not exactly groundbreaking stuff is it!

I agree about the extortionate prices in the Premiership, but I don''t think that you can put the blame for this squarely down to the influx of foreign players. Yes they''re paid well, but then so are likes of Terry, Gerrard, Rooney etc. Look at the sulk Ashley Cole went into when he found out he wasn''t getting paid as much as Thierry Henry,

[/quote]

Kind of contradicted yourself, it''s because of all these foreigners coming over here and demanding massive wages that has caused our own players of wanting the same, and thus ruining football in this country completely.

[whoareyou? 0]

Aresnal are with doubt the best team to watch by far and have been for the last 3 or 4 years.

I do think though that all English clubs should have to have at least 6 british players on the field at any one time to encourage the Chelseas of this world to nurture UK talent.

Just one other point though, the two best ever teams in terms of ability and entertainment were both fom the 1970''s.

Brazil 1970 World Cup team was without doubt the most talented and entertaining team ever, closely followed by the 1974 Holland World Cup team. With the way football has evolved, i doubt we will see their like again for a very long time! If you are too young to remember them, then go and buy a dvd with those teams on it and i guarantee you will be convinced.

[John Boubepo 0]

For me Arsenal are the best footballing side in England by a long shot, Chelsea are the best side for winning a title, Man U the best at huff and puff English football and Liverpool the best also rans - for the rest of us even if you support Tottingham Town, Everton, Man C, WHU, Norwich, Barnsley or Brighton we are light years away.It''s kinda strange that from a world population of 6 billion we can only produce worldwide about 100 decent players at any one time who can play football at a very high level, Arsenal have always had their share of that talent over the last decade making them the most attractive side in English football

[Mook 0]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

Kind of contradicted yourself, it''s because of all these foreigners coming over here and demanding massive wages that has caused our own players of wanting the same, and thus ruining football in this country completely.

[/quote]

Ha ha ha haaaaaaa! Enjoy the Daily Mail do you??

If I remember rightly, Roy Keane was the major player in the HUGE wages syndrome. Didn''t he demand 50k a week or something, 6 or 7 years ago??!

Honestly. Read your post back to yourself, and try to really believe it. Do you honestly think foreign players caused high wages?

And do you really think that English players would still be playing for a pack of Pork Scratchings and 5 bob "if it weren''t for those pesky foreigners"? I don''t know why I''m bothering replying actually. People with this sort of viewpoint are never going to listen anyway. "Country''s gone to the dogs" etc etc

[arrdee 2]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

So presumably you lot who are backing the Arsenal movement of having 11 foreigners on the pitch are pleased to see English football going down the gutter then?

I don''t know about you, but I can''t stand the Premiership anymore. Everyone says these imports make the games exciting and fun to watch, with plenty of goals....so what are you saying? Games weren''t exciting in the 70s and 80s, when we had English footballers in our teams, not foreign tw*ts diving around and getting what they want, feigning injury and so on.

When we got promoted, there was a tinge of disappointment for me personally - I knew we wouldn''t stand a chance. Had we been promoted 7 or 8 years earlier, we may well have had a chance. But it''s teams like Arsenal with their multi-national squads...oh sorry, forgot Walcott - who are making promotion from this division a complete fiasco and waste of time. Teams just can''t compete anymore, and until something is done about regulating the number of foreigners in teams, I will want us to get promotion for one reason only, and that is to take the money and run, because there is sure as hell no chance of us becoming established the way things are.

[/quote]

A;ex my sweetheart you are spot on , too many "johnny foreigners"in the prem diving and cheating .

i intend to name names ,the worst cheating diver by miles isAndrew johnson who.....err.....i.....arr...i..err .i don''t think i can finish this post as i ....err...have someone at the door, excuse me.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

Kind of contradicted yourself, it''s because of all these foreigners coming over here and demanding massive wages that has caused our own players of wanting the same, and thus ruining football in this country completely.

[/quote]

Ha ha ha haaaaaaa! Enjoy the Daily Mail do you??

If I remember rightly, Roy Keane was the major player in the HUGE wages syndrome. Didn''t he demand 50k a week or something, 6 or 7 years ago??!

Honestly. Read your post back to yourself, and try to really believe it. Do you honestly think foreign players caused high wages?

And do you really think that English players would still be playing for a pack of Pork Scratchings and 5 bob "if it weren''t for those pesky foreigners"? I don''t know why I''m bothering replying actually. People with this sort of viewpoint are never going to listen anyway. "Country''s gone to the dogs" etc etc

[/quote]

Up to your usual patronising and arrogant self  Mook.

Linking an opinion regarding foreign players to a right wing newspaper shows your supreme pompousness and I feel you should apologise to Alex if you have any decency.

Being  pro-British players is not racism...it is patriotism.......Keep your personal views to yourself and stop insulting other posters to boost your own PC agenda.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"][quote user="Mook"]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

Kind of contradicted yourself, it''s because of all these foreigners coming over here and demanding massive wages that has caused our own players of wanting the same, and thus ruining football in this country completely.

[/quote]

Ha ha ha haaaaaaa! Enjoy the Daily Mail do you??

If I remember rightly, Roy Keane was the major player in the HUGE wages syndrome. Didn''t he demand 50k a week or something, 6 or 7 years ago??!

Honestly. Read your post back to yourself, and try to really believe it. Do you honestly think foreign players caused high wages?

And do you really think that English players would still be playing for a pack of Pork Scratchings and 5 bob "if it weren''t for those pesky foreigners"? I don''t know why I''m bothering replying actually. People with this sort of viewpoint are never going to listen anyway. "Country''s gone to the dogs" etc etc

[/quote]

Up to your usual patronising and arrogant self  Mook.

Linking an opinion regarding foreign players to a right wing newspaper shows your supreme pompousness and I feel you should apologise to Alex if you have any decency.

Being  pro-British players is not racism...it is patriotism.......Keep your personal views to yourself and stop insulting other posters to boost your own PC agenda.

[/quote]

Not a chance, pal. I meant everything I said. My personal views are from the twenty-first century and I have spent many a long hour cultivating them by taking the opinions of many others and trying to find what I believe to be a fair balance.

I''m not going to read a post saying that foreigners caused English players to take high wages (which is exactly what it says) without ripping into the shreds it deserves. Patronising, yes. Arrogant, no.

Being pro-british is patriotism, and I don''t like it - that''s my personal viewpoint which I will not inflict on others. Being anti-foreign is racism, that''s just dictionary definition fact.

And PC agenda??? Why is it the racists and xenophobes always come out and say something like "political correctness gone mad"? We''re not talking about political correctness, just correctness. Why don''t you reading the actual contents of Alex''s post and try defending it, Cluck?

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Mook"][quote user="cluckaduck"][quote user="Mook"]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

Kind of contradicted yourself, it''s because of all these foreigners coming over here and demanding massive wages that has caused our own players of wanting the same, and thus ruining football in this country completely.

[/quote]

Ha ha ha haaaaaaa! Enjoy the Daily Mail do you??

If I remember rightly, Roy Keane was the major player in the HUGE wages syndrome. Didn''t he demand 50k a week or something, 6 or 7 years ago??!

Honestly. Read your post back to yourself, and try to really believe it. Do you honestly think foreign players caused high wages?

And do you really think that English players would still be playing for a pack of Pork Scratchings and 5 bob "if it weren''t for those pesky foreigners"? I don''t know why I''m bothering replying actually. People with this sort of viewpoint are never going to listen anyway. "Country''s gone to the dogs" etc etc

[/quote]

Up to your usual patronising and arrogant self  Mook.

Linking an opinion regarding foreign players to a right wing newspaper shows your supreme pompousness and I feel you should apologise to Alex if you have any decency.

Being  pro-British players is not racism...it is patriotism.......Keep your personal views to yourself and stop insulting other posters to boost your own PC agenda.

[/quote]

Not a chance, pal. I meant everything I said. My personal views are from the twenty-first century and I have spent many a long hour cultivating them by taking the opinions of many others and trying to find what I believe to be a fair balance.

I''m not going to read a post saying that foreigners caused English players to take high wages (which is exactly what it says) without ripping into the shreds it deserves. Patronising, yes. Arrogant, no.

Being pro-british is patriotism, and I don''t like it - that''s my personal viewpoint which I will not inflict on others. Being anti-foreign is racism, that''s just dictionary definition fact.

And PC agenda??? Why is it the racists and xenophobes always come out and say something like "political correctness gone mad"? We''re not talking about political correctness, just correctness. Why don''t you reading the actual contents of Alex''s post and try defending it, Cluck?

[/quote]

Like I say.......you''re everything that is going wrong with this country right now. Read want you want to read into things.......abuse the liberty we all have a right to as individuals to speak. The loudest voices are usually heard on the street....but on here the decibels remain equal. No megaphones......no gangs......no placards.

And if you are aiming a shot at me regarding the ''political correctness'' slant being racist......I say it''s all too easy to hind behind a computer keyboard Mook........but that''s the usual way of things these days isn''t it?

[Fat Barman 0]

Blimey, these quotes-within-quotes-within-quotes really beef up a debate don''t they?Did anyone else hear the agreement between FIFA and FIFPRO yesterday? Apparently they have an outline plan, to be implemented in maybe three years time. This plan is to have a quota system, where clubs have to field a  minimum of 6 home-grown, or home-developed players. The players needn''t necessarily be from your home country, but clubs would have to have ''developed'' a foreigner for at least 3 years, before he could qualify for the quota.Whilst Arsene Wenger has announced that this would be a disaster for Arsenal, I think that''s a smoke screen, because Arsenal have been bringing in foreign 16 & 17-year-olds for several years now.Will this bring about the improvement in national teams that has been yearned for - more importantly, will it be of benefit to clubs like Norwich?I want to know more details too. Do home-grown have to come from within your own club, or does it apply to any player developed within the country? (i.e. can you poach other club''s talent?)

[whoareyou? 0]

Having watched both Chelsea at Barcelona on Wednesday and Arsenal today at West Ham, i have gotta say that these two foreign managers need to learn some manners and learn how to lose and take setbacks magnanimously.

Mourinho and Wenger have both shown themselves in a very bad light when things don''t go their way.

[Old Boy 0]

"Being pro-British" presumably means wanting Britain to be the best in everything, including football. How is that helped by preventing our best young players playing alongside the best foreign players? My opinion is that, yes, football has been spoiled by money, but particularly that British footballers have been spoiled by money: mediocre British players in the Championship earn far more than the best players in Argentina, and far more than their own mates working outside of football. So we get - what shall we call it? - the Jarvis syndrome, where a comfort zone is reached long before the player''s actually achieved anything. Hopefully, with Wenger''s tutelage, and playing alongside Henry, Fabregas etc., Theo Walcott will become as good a player as any of them, irrespective of what he''s being paid. One thing''s for sure - if he plays regularly in Wenger''s team, you can be sure he will be special.

The key thing is, though, that it''s not the players, it''s the coaches that we should focus on. It''s the influx of good foreign coaches that caused the flood of foreign players. And British coaches are crap (there are a few exceptions of course....).

[In Dubious Battle 0]

I take issue with some of the racist/xenophobic comments that have been made, i for one think the flood of foriegn players into our game has been fantastic and has helped make the premiership the most watched league on the planet. To dislike one players over another simply based on where they happened to be born is very irrational and quite silly really. There is nothing stopping english players playing abroad? If they can''t get into premiership teams why not play in the spanish, french, german or italian leagues these are all played to a similar standrad to the premiership, but for some reason this doesn''t happen but i think if England are ever going to be graet again it needs to.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

Kind of contradicted yourself, it''s because of all these foreigners coming over here and demanding massive wages that has caused our own players of wanting the same, and thus ruining football in this country completely.

[/quote]

Sorry Alex only just noticed this. My my you are are an angry boy aren''t you! Just wait until all thos Bulgarians and Romanians come over here trying to steal your job!

I don''t particularly blame you for your view as it''s the type of myth paddled by the media almost constantly. Look at the way they set about Drogba last year, basically trying to force him out of the country, whilst barely mentioning Gerrards two dives against Bolton at around the same time.

The debate about wages works the same way, English boys want to earn huge amounts of money, but it''s only because they want to keep up with those nasty, greedy foreigners!

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]I take issue with some of the racist/xenophobic comments that have been made, i for one think the flood of foriegn players into our game has been fantastic and has helped make the premiership the most watched league on the planet.

To dislike one players over another simply based on where they happened to be born is very irrational and quite silly really. There is nothing stopping english players playing abroad? If they can''t get into premiership teams why not play in the spanish, french, german or italian leagues these are all played to a similar standrad to the premiership, but for some reason this doesn''t happen but i think if England are ever going to be graet again it needs to.
[/quote]

I personally think that you''ve got a very good point. It seems to me that the British would rather talk about "when britain was great" and long for times gone by, than to catch up with the world, live in modern times, and make the new situations work for us. Playing with great players should make our players better.

Let''s get some british players playing abroad - they will learn a new lanuage, new styles of play, new culture and it will do the game no harm at all. British coaches too.

Have you noticed that the foreign players seem to speak better English than the English players? How come players like Henry, Vieira, Alonso etc can talk about the game so eloquently in a different language?

And Cluck, if accepting foreign cultures and attempting not to offend people of different nationalities is "everything that''s wrong with this country today", fine. I can live with that. Truth is, I''m a bit embarrassed to be English. Our football team is massively overrated, our government is an embarrassment, half the country is made up of racists, xenophobes, homophobes and bar-brawlers, and our culture revolves around drinking too much and showing how tough we are. I think there''s room for improvement.

[The Fish Seller 0]

Of course those advocating the merits of utilising high numbers of Foreign players need look no further than the sport of cricket to see how right they are.

Wages in that sport are just a fraction of those of pro footballers, with top International players receiving in the region of a few hundreds of thousands of pounds per year as opposed to per month as in football.

The use of overseas players is very strictly limited, this has helped to keep earnings sensible and to nurture the talents of homegrown players.

Hopefully you can understand that this is in no way rascist or xenophobic as any player from overseas is welcomed but must either comply with the overseas players criteria or gain acceptance through residence. In fact this is one of the few sports where a player can "change" Nationality and play for another Country (eg Graeme Hick) so no chants of Rascist or Xenophobe please.

 Now back to the comparison.

The Ashes series put 11 players onto the field in a collection of matches in close succesion. The players fought tooth and nail for each other and the team culminating in one of the finest moments in recent (in fact take out that "recent") sporting history. Match after match against the best team in the World, no quarter shown or given, fantastic sport for all involved and watching.

The World Cup allowed Engerland to put a few past some also rans in passionless displays before being put out at the first true test. Dreadful viewing for all, still I guess like during the Ashes series they did have 11 players on the field so there can be at least one parallel drawn between the two teams showings.

I think there''s a lot to be said for limiting the number of Foreign Nationals in a team, cricket has proven it!!!!!

[Cluck 0]

This whole demate misses the point entirely and Britishness/Englishness has as usual been labelled as Nationalistic rather than patriotic by the PC brigade as usual. The heading has got nothing to do with colour or race.....but everything to do with Britsh/English football. Typical that the PC lobby tries to hijack the point and turn it round by manipulating words and trying to turn the tables. It''s been going on for years now and we are being led to believe that being English is a crime. Not in my book it isn''t.....and while on the one hand we admire the Scots, Welsh, Irish, Australians etc. for the passion they display......we can''t do the same without being called racists. I say get a life. We should celebrate difference....not deny it.

 

 

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Ralph Wrong"]

Of course those advocating the merits of utilising high numbers of Foreign players need look no further than the sport of cricket to see how right they are.

Wages in that sport are just a fraction of those of pro footballers, with top International players receiving in the region of a few hundreds of thousands of pounds per year as opposed to per month as in football.

The use of overseas players is very strictly limited, this has helped to keep earnings sensible and to nurture the talents of homegrown players.

Hopefully you can understand that this is in no way rascist or xenophobic as any player from overseas is welcomed but must either comply with the overseas players criteria or gain acceptance through residence. In fact this is one of the few sports where a player can "change" Nationality and play for another Country (eg Graeme Hick) so no chants of Rascist or Xenophobe please.

 Now back to the comparison.

The Ashes series put 11 players onto the field in a collection of matches in close succesion. The players fought tooth and nail for each other and the team culminating in one of the finest moments in recent (in fact take out that "recent") sporting history. Match after match against the best team in the World, no quarter shown or given, fantastic sport for all involved and watching.

The World Cup allowed Engerland to put a few past some also rans in passionless displays before being put out at the first true test. Dreadful viewing for all, still I guess like during the Ashes series they did have 11 players on the field so there can be at least one parallel drawn between the two teams showings.

I think there''s a lot to be said for limiting the number of Foreign Nationals in a team, cricket has proven it!!!!!

[/quote]

I respect what you''re saying, and agree that the ashes was twice the spectalce that the world cup ever was.

The one thing I seriously do not get is the same thing I couldn''t understand from Alex''s post:

Why does having foreigners mean the wages are higher? Surely the wages are higher because there is a LOT more money in football than there is in cricket, and therefore people will pay high money to attract the better players (most of whom aren''t english).

Please explain the equation "foreigners = high wages". Surely it''s "too much money in the game = high wages".

BTW, I am in favour of a cap of foreign nationals in the british football league, say 5 or 6.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"]

This whole demate misses the point entirely and Britishness/Englishness has as usual been labelled as Nationalistic rather than patriotic by the PC brigade as usual. The heading has got nothing to do with colour or race.....but everything to do with Britsh/English football. Typical that the PC lobby tries to hijack the point and turn it round by manipulating words and trying to turn the tables. It''s been going on for years now and we are being led to believe that being English is a crime. Not in my book it isn''t.....and while on the one hand we admire the Scots, Welsh, Irish, Australians etc. for the passion they display......we can''t do the same without being called racists. I say get a life. We should celebrate difference....not deny it.

[/quote]

Errr, don''t geddit.

This argument is about someone stating, quite clearly, that foreigners had caused high wages.

Why don''t you try defending that viewpoint, rather than shoe-horning the usual "PC Brigade" stuff (which I personally can''t stand) , and tirading about "being English is a crime". Nobody thinks that unless they believe the spin from right-wing newspapers!

The Scots hate us, the Welsh hate us, the Irish aren''t keen, the Australians take the mickey out of us constantly. Ask yourself why! We can''t be doing everything right, can we?

[Shack Attack 0]

Cluck

PC lobby, PC brigade blah blah blah, give it a rest please. Alex stated that high wages were all the fault of the foreigners and that he couldn''t stand the Premiership anymore because of all the diving foreigners. A few have debated this but all you''re going on about is political correctness, how about giving reasons why you agree with Alex rather than resorting to this.

Ralph

I get what you''re saying and wouldn''t dream of calling you racist or xenophobic but personally I think the success of the English cricket team is more to do with the introduction of central contract than restrictions on the number of foreign players. Also, and feel  free to correct me if I''m wrong, hasnn''t the number of foreign cricketers allowed in each county team been increased from 1 to 2 in the last few years?

I think the original debate was something to do with whether people enjoy watching Arsenal or not, and in the midst of all the nationalistic nonsense I don''t think I''ve given my opinion. I certainly enjoy watching them, and was awe struck at times during the home match against them in our Premiership season. Where they are in the pantheon of great sides I''m not entirely sure, but they are fantastic to watch and are(along with Man Utd at present) a welcome relief from the Chelseas, Boltons and Blackburns of this world.

[Fat Barman 0]

Nobody''s picked up on the proposed quotas put forward by FIFA in agreement with players group FIFpro. Link to BBC story here.I''d like to add the following. ''Homegrown'' allows for foreign players developed at academies within this country to qualify, so Welsh, Scottish, Irish lads can still qualify, also Al-Ouargi would be OK. More money would be invested by top clubs into youth football, so they could have a large enough pool of good-enough homegrown players to be competitive in European competition. The knock-on effect of increased numbers of good English players would be to deflate the transfer market for English players. Whilst this would mean that we wouldn''t get £7.5 million for a Cashton, we wouldn''t have to pay £3 million for Earnie either (swings and roundabouts time).I like to see good foreign players here, but not at the expense of investment in English youth. I think this is one of FIFA''s better ideas. The proposed timetable allows time for youth investment to show results before quotas are implemented. With up to 5 imported players (per team) on the pitch at any one time, I don''t see this spoiling things for anyone - top quality imports will still ply their trade wherever they choose.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

I think the original debate was something to do with whether people enjoy watching Arsenal or not, and in the midst of all the nationalistic nonsense I don''t think I''ve given my opinion. I certainly enjoy watching them, and was awe struck at times during the home match against them in our Premiership season.

[/quote]

Tell you what though, uncle Bobby Robson was exactly right when he said they need to learn how to lose graciously. I can understand how frustrating it must be to play football the "right" way and constantly have to play teams packing the midfield and defending for 90 mins, but they need to learn some dignity.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Fat Barman"]Nobody''s picked up on the proposed quotas put forward by FIFA in agreement with players group FIFpro. Link to BBC story here.

I''d like to add the following. ''Homegrown'' allows for foreign players developed at academies within this country to qualify, so Welsh, Scottish, Irish lads can still qualify, also Al-Ouargi would be OK. More money would be invested by top clubs into youth football, so they could have a large enough pool of good-enough homegrown players to be competitive in European competition. The knock-on effect of increased numbers of good English players would be to deflate the transfer market for English players. Whilst this would mean that we wouldn''t get £7.5 million for a Cashton, we wouldn''t have to pay £3 million for Earnie either (swings and roundabouts time).

I like to see good foreign players here, but not at the expense of investment in English youth. I think this is one of FIFA''s better ideas. The proposed timetable allows time for youth investment to show results before quotas are implemented. With up to 5 imported players (per team) on the pitch at any one time, I don''t see this spoiling things for anyone - top quality imports will still ply their trade wherever they choose.
[/quote]

Sorry FB, did pick it up but was a little amazed at the Island mentality of some of the postings on this thread.

I think anything that deflates the market for English players is a good thing, I can''t believe how much some of them cost! Could this finally be a good idea from FIFA?

I would very much like to see a bit of foreign flair and invention here, particularly now that McVeigh seems to have given up trying. We are crying out for some guile in midfield to pick out Earnie''s runs.

I think another problem is that the youth players of today can earn enough money without having to even break into the first team, and this is another element where money is killing the game. I think this is why some of our boys haven''t fulfilled their potential. 

Perhaps also there should be a lower wage cap on youth team players to encourage them to work hard and get into the 1st team?

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Mook"][quote user="cluckaduck"]

This whole demate misses the point entirely and Britishness/Englishness has as usual been labelled as Nationalistic rather than patriotic by the PC brigade as usual. The heading has got nothing to do with colour or race.....but everything to do with Britsh/English football. Typical that the PC lobby tries to hijack the point and turn it round by manipulating words and trying to turn the tables. It''s been going on for years now and we are being led to believe that being English is a crime. Not in my book it isn''t.....and while on the one hand we admire the Scots, Welsh, Irish, Australians etc. for the passion they display......we can''t do the same without being called racists. I say get a life. We should celebrate difference....not deny it.

[/quote]

Errr, don''t geddit.

This argument is about someone stating, quite clearly, that foreigners had caused high wages.

Why don''t you try defending that viewpoint, rather than shoe-horning the usual "PC Brigade" stuff (which I personally can''t stand) , and tirading about "being English is a crime". Nobody thinks that unless they believe the spin from right-wing newspapers!

The Scots hate us, the Welsh hate us, the Irish aren''t keen, the Australians take the mickey out of us constantly. Ask yourself why! We can''t be doing everything right, can we?

[/quote]

 

Mook...sadly you''re an agitator and petty nit-picker.......

I thought you might rise to a proper debate but it seems that you have your own agenda on all things and I''ll waste no more effort trying to communicate.

I''ve openly admitted to learning alot things from other posters on here.......but for folks like you there is no hope........You''re right and the rest of us are wrong. Well.....carry on..........

 

[Herb 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"]

Mook...sadly you''re an agitator and petty nit-picker.......

[/quote]I thought he made some good points.Earlier in the thread I corrected your assertion that our successful early 90s team was all English when about half of them were Scottish and Welsh. You might think that''s inconsequential, but they''re different countries just as much as France, Morroco or Nigeria are. Don''t believe me? Next time you see some Scots in the pub tell them they''re just part of England...I''ll send some flowers to the hospital. [:P]So your argument is null and void (unless you think we should have sent Gunn, Phillips, Goss, Bowen and Ekoku back to their respective homelands)The "British" thing doesn''t wash. I''m not British, I''m English. Gunny isn''t British, he''s Scottish."Britain" is a made up collonial concept, they saw through it years ago.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Herb"][quote user="cluckaduck"]

Mook...sadly you''re an agitator and petty nit-picker.......

[/quote]

I thought he made some good points.
Earlier in the thread I corrected your assertion that our successful early 90s team was all English when about half of them were Scottish and Welsh. You might think that''s inconsequential, but they''re different countries just as much as France, Morroco or Nigeria are.
Don''t believe me? Next time you see some Scots in the pub tell them they''re just part of England...I''ll send some flowers to the hospital. [:P]

So your argument is null and void (unless you think we should have sent Gunn, Phillips, Goss, Bowen and Ekoku back to their respective homelands)
The "British" thing doesn''t wash. I''m not British, I''m English. Gunny isn''t British, he''s Scottish.
"Britain" is a made up collonial concept, they saw through it years ago.
[/quote]

 

Is it just me or what?...........[:S]

[Herb 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"]

Is it just me or what?...........[:S]

[/quote]Oh so only you''re allowed to rant now?

[hogesar 9,813]

Lol, im sure we''ll take ''em. either that or we''ll shove them in the reserves.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"]

Mook...sadly you''re an agitator and petty nit-picker.......

I thought you might rise to a proper debate but it seems that you have your own agenda on all things and I''ll waste no more effort trying to communicate.

I''ve openly admitted to learning alot things from other posters on here.......but for folks like you there is no hope........You''re right and the rest of us are wrong. Well.....carry on..........

 

[/quote]

Sorry I still don''t get it. Mook asked you to defend the viewpoint that foreigners had caused high wages. You''ve refused, but he''s an agitator and a petty nit-picker who doesn''t want to rise to a proper debate!

And you''ve got the cheek to say he''s got an agenda!!!!

[Mook 0]

Cluck, you''ve not once attempted to discuss the point in question, which was the wrong-ness of some of the statements on here. I''m all for people having views different to mine, so long as they''re not factually incorrect - ie Foreigners caused high wages, foreigners are to blame for all that is evil etc etc.

Re Ralph Wrong''s point regarding the Ashes....

I was listening to Duncan Fletcher''s familiar South African lilt this morning, then it dawned on me - HOW COME SVEN IS SLATED for being foreign, but Duncan Fletcher is an English cricketing hero????

Not to mention KP, who is damn sight less English than, say, Owen Hargreaves or Greg Rudseski.

Would we have won the ashes if it hadn''t have been for foreigners?! And then there''s Mike Catt and the England Rugby World Cup winners. Or is it "ok" if they speak English as a mother tongue?