Arsenal - a question?

[ManchesterCanary 0]

Watching NCFC (when i can) continues to be a frustrating experience. However, watching the style of pure football that Arsenal have played recently, particularly the games at Reading (0-4) and against CSKA Moscow (mayebe the most amazing 0-0 ever) restores my faith in the beautiful game. I am not a Gooners fan as such, but their style is a joy to watch. Has anybody witnessed such fast, skillful, flowing football before?...(maybe Brasil in 1970?).

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,036]

Liverpool in the seventies were a joy to behold and like you I love the way Arsenal play the game.

[canary cherub 1]

Funny you should past that after last night Manc.  I listened to updates from the game on Sky Sports.  Never thought I''d hear the words "Henry", "touch" and "shocking" in the same sentence twice in one match.  They missed four or five absolute sitters but they''re only human after all . . .

Yes, they''re fantastic to watch.  Even though they thrashed us in the Prem season I didn''t really mind all that much.  My main memory of the Highbury game though is Hucks'' terrific goal, which in the end got him my vote for PoS.  Think I''ll go and get the DVD out . . .

[Mook 0]

The "Dairylea" football at Norwich in the late 80''s early 90''s was a joy to watch. Pass and move, pass and move, pass and move. We never won by big margins because we were always intent on passing the ball into the net!

Also, Man Utd''s devastating one-touch football when Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Keane, Cole and Yorke were all in their prime was incredible.

[can u sit down please 0]

Definately agree. On there day they are by far the best team to watch.Against Reading they were sublime. The game last night was unreal for a 0-0. it aint often you hear/see Arsenal play well and they dont win. A true joy to watch.

I remember when they beat us 4-1 at Carrow Road. Terry Henry completely blew me away that day and since then i have enjoyed watching them.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]

Definately agree. On there day they are by far the best team to watch.Against Reading they were sublime. The game last night was unreal for a 0-0. it aint often you hear/see Arsenal play well and they dont win. A true joy to watch.

I remember when they beat us 4-1 at Carrow Road. Terry Henry completely blew me away that day and since then i have enjoyed watching them.

[/quote]

Aaaahh . . . Crooky. 

Spurs'' loss was definitely our gain.  Thank you Glenn Hoddle for keeping him out of the first team . . .

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="can u sit down please"]

Definately agree. On there day they are by far the best team to watch.Against Reading they were sublime. The game last night was unreal for a 0-0. it aint often you hear/see Arsenal play well and they dont win. A true joy to watch.

I remember when they beat us 4-1 at Carrow Road. Terry Henry completely blew me away that day and since then i have enjoyed watching them.

[/quote]

Aaaahh . . . Crooky. 

Spurs'' loss was definitely our gain.  Thank you Glenn Hoddle for keeping him out of the first team . . .

[/quote]

Sorry, that was meant to be a response to Mook''s post . . .

[E I E I E I O 0]

They are fantastic to watch. They play the game the easy way with slick accurate passing and movement!

They are the best side in the world to watch!

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="ManchesterCanary"]Watching NCFC (when i can) continues to be a frustrating experience. However, watching the style of pure football that Arsenal have played recently, particularly the games at Reading (0-4) and against CSKA Moscow (mayebe the most amazing 0-0 ever) restores my faith in the beautiful game. I am not a Gooners fan as such, but their style is a joy to watch. Has anybody witnessed such fast, skillful, flowing football before?...(maybe Brasil in 1970?).[/quote]

I have a serious issue with the foreign stars at Arsenal, just as at Chelsea etc. When I see them touted as an English club in the Champions League it want to cringe. Just what is English about them? Theo Walcott....Terry and Lampard at best. I prefer the honest game of a few years ago.

I think it is because I have seen that great Norwich side play, including Crooky and Co that I am in so much gloom at what is going on on the pitch now. They weren''t world beaters, but they played great football and did Norwich City proud.

They didn''t cost the Earth to put together either!

[Ark 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"]

[quote user="ManchesterCanary"]Watching NCFC (when i can) continues to be a frustrating experience. However, watching the style of pure football that Arsenal have played recently, particularly the games at Reading (0-4) and against CSKA Moscow (mayebe the most amazing 0-0 ever) restores my faith in the beautiful game. I am not a Gooners fan as such, but their style is a joy to watch. Has anybody witnessed such fast, skillful, flowing football before?...(maybe Brasil in 1970?).[/quote]

I have a serious issue with the foreign stars at Arsenal, just as at Chelsea etc. When I see them touted as an English club in the Champions League it want to cringe. Just what is English about them? Theo Walcott....Terry and Lampard at best. I prefer the honest game of a few years ago.

I think it is because I have seen that great Norwich side play, including Crooky and Co that I am in so much gloom at what is going on on the pitch now. They weren''t world beaters, but they played great football and did Norwich City proud.

They didn''t cost the Earth to put together either!

[/quote]

How on EARTH did you manage to turn this discussion into an excuse to for a xenophobic tirade???

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Ark"][quote user="cluckaduck"]

[quote user="ManchesterCanary"]Watching NCFC (when i can) continues to be a frustrating experience. However, watching the style of pure football that Arsenal have played recently, particularly the games at Reading (0-4) and against CSKA Moscow (mayebe the most amazing 0-0 ever) restores my faith in the beautiful game. I am not a Gooners fan as such, but their style is a joy to watch. Has anybody witnessed such fast, skillful, flowing football before?...(maybe Brasil in 1970?).[/quote]

I have a serious issue with the foreign stars at Arsenal, just as at Chelsea etc. When I see them touted as an English club in the Champions League it want to cringe. Just what is English about them? Theo Walcott....Terry and Lampard at best. I prefer the honest game of a few years ago.

I think it is because I have seen that great Norwich side play, including Crooky and Co that I am in so much gloom at what is going on on the pitch now. They weren''t world beaters, but they played great football and did Norwich City proud.

They didn''t cost the Earth to put together either!

[/quote]

How on EARTH did you manage to turn this discussion into an excuse to for a xenophobic tirade???

[/quote]

Who rattled your cage then mate? Exclusive threads now is it?

Don''t expect everyone to agree with your point of view.....The header related to Arsenal. I answered it.

[Herb 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"]

I have a serious issue with the foreign stars at Arsenal, just as at Chelsea etc. When I see them touted as an English club in the Champions League it want to cringe. Just what is English about them? Theo Walcott....Terry and Lampard at best. I prefer the honest game of a few years ago.

I think it is because I have seen that great Norwich side play, including Crooky and Co that I am in so much gloom at what is going on on the pitch now. They weren''t world beaters, but they played great football and did Norwich City proud.

They didn''t cost the Earth to put together either!

[/quote]Presumably Bowen, Ekoku, Gunn, Goss and Phillips would all have been better left out during the period you hark back to with misty eyes?After all, none of them are English. That''s over half a team that doesn''t meet your rather silly criteria.Words fail me, they really do.

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

You might be correct, but spare a thought for us, we''ve got to play them on sunday and we''ve only just won a game after 8 attempts.

Andy

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

I hope that they don''t take it out on my team, whu, this sunday.

Andy

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

Agree, don''t want foreigners at WHU.

Don''t want a takeover either

Keep our teams British, as previous eras.

Anybody want to borrow a couple of Argies?

Andy

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Herb"][quote user="cluckaduck"]

I have a serious issue with the foreign stars at Arsenal, just as at Chelsea etc. When I see them touted as an English club in the Champions League it want to cringe. Just what is English about them? Theo Walcott....Terry and Lampard at best. I prefer the honest game of a few years ago.

I think it is because I have seen that great Norwich side play, including Crooky and Co that I am in so much gloom at what is going on on the pitch now. They weren''t world beaters, but they played great football and did Norwich City proud.

They didn''t cost the Earth to put together either!

[/quote]

Presumably Bowen, Ekoku, Gunn, Goss and Phillips would all have been better left out during the period you hark back to with misty eyes?
After all, none of them are English. That''s over half a team that doesn''t meet your rather silly criteria.
Words fail me, they really do.
[/quote]

Misty eyes eh?....Xenophobic too?........

Disappointed Herb that you should trivially split hairs probably knowing full well that I was including British players in with that English tag........a very common error even by television pundits.....but there ya go......seems I''m bait for the moment so carry on.

As for the daft xenophobic aside.......what the hell is wrong with preferring BRITISH players to foreign ones? The overseas signings we have made in the past haven''t exactly set the world alight have they?

So what exactly happened to free speech in this country?  Is preferring English/British players to foreign imputs so wrong? Does that make me racist to prefer traditional British football? Apart from the early days when the likes of Cantona and Zola only complimented a team....we now regularly have Premiership sides playing made up entirely of imports. This has entirely changed the nature of our game and put in place a non contact European influence. Lots of diving and cheating....mercenaries playing solely for large wages.....set plays a la Spain and Italy.....uintelligable post match interviews.....spitting......etc etc. I could go on.

Is it also any coincidence that our national team is so boring and lifeless? Is it a coincidence that fewer local youngsters are coming through the ranks at clubs now? Much of the problem is far too many foreign players....and very ordinary ones at that. If that''s xenophobia, then count me in...........

Should some people like all of that ''Fancy Dan'' stuff as in Ronaldinho good luck to them.......but some of us preferred the pacey and physical way of things when players were honest and local bred talent got their chance. Too easy to pick a player off the shelf from some far flung land now.......and thus avoid the effort of blooding new talent.

 

 

 

[Ark 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"][quote user="Ark"][quote user="cluckaduck"]

[quote user="ManchesterCanary"]Watching NCFC (when i can) continues to be a frustrating experience. However, watching the style of pure football that Arsenal have played recently, particularly the games at Reading (0-4) and against CSKA Moscow (mayebe the most amazing 0-0 ever) restores my faith in the beautiful game. I am not a Gooners fan as such, but their style is a joy to watch. Has anybody witnessed such fast, skillful, flowing football before?...(maybe Brasil in 1970?).[/quote]

I have a serious issue with the foreign stars at Arsenal, just as at Chelsea etc. When I see them touted as an English club in the Champions League it want to cringe. Just what is English about them? Theo Walcott....Terry and Lampard at best. I prefer the honest game of a few years ago.

I think it is because I have seen that great Norwich side play, including Crooky and Co that I am in so much gloom at what is going on on the pitch now. They weren''t world beaters, but they played great football and did Norwich City proud.

They didn''t cost the Earth to put together either!

[/quote]

How on EARTH did you manage to turn this discussion into an excuse to for a xenophobic tirade???

[/quote]

Who rattled your cage then mate? Exclusive threads now is it?

Don''t expect everyone to agree with your point of view.....The header related to Arsenal. I answered it.

[/quote]I just think it''s sad to hijack a post about watching great football and try to turn it into some excuse to lay into foreigners. Have your say by all means... But why not post a new topic or add your reply somewhere that it''s RELEVANT.And, NO, the header said "Arsenal - a question?", and you DID NOT answer the question.On the topic in hand... In my view Thierry Henry is a better and more complete footballer than Ronaldinho, and is pretty much in a class of his own. What scares me about Arsenal is how much youth they have in their team... and how much potential there is for the team to get better and better over the next three or four years as they mature as individuals and as a team. I really think that Abramovich''s wallet  will have its work cut out to stay on top.

[Mook 0]

[quote]

Agree, don''t want foreigners at WHU.

Don''t want a takeover either

Keep our teams British, as previous eras.

Anybody want to borrow a couple of Argies?

Andy

[/quote]

Oh, do be quiet.

British players are expensive, overrated rubbish. Fair play to Wenger for noticing.

[anothatracksuitmanager 0]

not since brazil or total football in holland, which begs the other question do you want norwich to win ugly, or be like arsenal and maybe run the risk of not winning so much.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"]

Misty eyes eh?....Xenophobic too?........

Disappointed Herb that you should trivially split hairs probably knowing full well that I was including British players in with that English tag........a very common error even by television pundits.....but there ya go......seems I''m bait for the moment so carry on.

As for the daft xenophobic aside.......what the hell is wrong with preferring BRITISH players to foreign ones? The overseas signings we have made in the past haven''t exactly set the world alight have they?

So what exactly happened to free speech in this country?  Is preferring English/British players to foreign imputs so wrong? Does that make me racist to prefer traditional British football? Apart from the early days when the likes of Cantona and Zola only complimented a team....we now regularly have Premiership sides playing made up entirely of imports. This has entirely changed the nature of our game and put in place a non contact European influence. Lots of diving and cheating....mercenaries playing solely for large wages.....set plays a la Spain and Italy.....uintelligable post match interviews.....spitting......etc etc. I could go on.

Is it also any coincidence that our national team is so boring and lifeless? Is it a coincidence that fewer local youngsters are coming through the ranks at clubs now? Much of the problem is far too many foreign players....and very ordinary ones at that. If that''s xenophobia, then count me in...........

Should some people like all of that ''Fancy Dan'' stuff as in Ronaldinho good luck to them.......but some of us preferred the pacey and physical way of things when players were honest and local bred talent got their chance. Too easy to pick a player off the shelf from some far flung land now.......and thus avoid the effort of blooding new talent.

[/quote]

A lot of what you say has it''s weight, but some is guff. Just compare our national team with the Macedonians - their control of the ball and technical ability was MILES better than ours. And Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, "best in Europe" etc etc ? Nonsense! Football is about intelligent play, it''s sport, it''s entertainment and it''s an artform, how come our players can only play at a million miles an hour? I''d rather watch Ronaldinho destroy a team than watch Lampard shoot endlessly from the edge of the box, hoping it will catch someone''s *rse and get deflected in.

The English mentality is all about fast, furious, powerful, "Passion", strength etc etc. What about ability? Control? Touch?

A player like Crook is a perfect example. He played the game slowly. He picked his passes, he directed and read the game.

And here''s my major point - the economics. If you had an £18m total transfer budget, would you buy Michael Carrick? Or would you buy Fabregas AND Eboué AND Flamini AND Rosicky AND Clichy AND Touré??? I know which one I would do.

Also, re cheating, you need to look a little closer to home. Michael Owen, David Beckham, Steven Gerrard, Joe Cole are all masters of the dive. If they''re so "honest", why do they do it too? If it''s anyone''s fault, it''s FIFA for letting them get away with it. Every match should be reviewed afterwards and the divers should be banned. That would soon stop them.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

In two words:

Arsene Wenger.

[Shack Attack 0]

Spot on Mook, for too long our game has been obsessed with pride, passion, fight etc and not enough about skill. The rhetoric from John Terry before the Croatia game about this and the need to "stand up and be counted, be ready for a war, hostile crowd etc." was a sad reflection on our game. We need to start at the bottom and drum it into every kid who plays that it is a cardinal sin to give the ball away.

It was embarrasing watching Macedonia and Croatia look more comfortable on the ball than England, but entirely predictable.

Cluckaduck is entitled to prefer pacy, physical style of football, just don''t whinge and blame it all on the manager when we get knocked out of the next major tournament on pens in the QF.

[Cluck 0]

I guess I must now be in the minority of football followers who prefer the ''honest'' game to the imported variety then. ''Honest'' doesn''t imply unskilled or ''ugly'' to me....it means exciting. Errors make excitement and ''ole'' passing proves nothing but arrogance.....diving an excuse for hard work.

Again I may be in the minority....but I also link our League to the National side. The more overseas players....the less choice available for England selection. The more Arsenal style ''youth'' set ups....the less England stars of the future coming along.

Re the rise of minor foreign national teams....a la Macedonia and Croatia.....Most of them play outside of their own leagues and so don''t truly reflect on their country of origin. British scouts go over and pick them up cheap....bring them on......and then they patriotically give us a good hiding for their home country......It''s no good bashing our England team while this is the norm.

I hope you can see through the ''guff'' again Mook......Some might simply call it a different opinion to yours.

As for starting a new thread....I think there are too many already and that is why they slide off the page too quickly. Surely we can handle a little diversification can''t we?...........[^o)]

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

Spot on Mook, for too long our game has been obsessed with pride, passion, fight etc and not enough about skill. The rhetoric from John Terry before the Croatia game about this and the need to "stand up and be counted, be ready for a war, hostile crowd etc." was a sad reflection on our game. We need to start at the bottom and drum it into every kid who plays that it is a cardinal sin to give the ball away.

It was embarrasing watching Macedonia and Croatia look more comfortable on the ball than England, but entirely predictable.

Cluckaduck is entitled to prefer pacy, physical style of football, just don''t whinge and blame it all on the manager when we get knocked out of the next major tournament on pens in the QF.

[/quote]

An interesting thing, this "fight" and "passion" and "guts".

How come, when it goes to penalties, all our players shrink and disappear whilst the germans, brazilians and argentinians all get their heads down, concentrate and put the damn ball in the back of the net???

A team that keeps their cool and keeps the ball will always be more successful than a team hyped-up on adrenaline and so-called "passion". Just look at the England team in the Seventies and early Eightites!

Having said all this, I do agree with Cluck regarding the lack of opportunities for our young players, although I don''t believe this is why our National team is crap. I think that a restriction should be put on all teams in all European competitions, saying that 5 or 6 players should be from the Country the team is representing.

This would stop Chelsea buying every one of the world''s great players, and Arsenal from fielding a team of 11 foreigners. It would level the playing field somewhat, and encourage clubs to develop their youth teams.

[alex_ncfc 662]

So presumably you lot who are backing the Arsenal movement of having 11 foreigners on the pitch are pleased to see English football going down the gutter then?

I don''t know about you, but I can''t stand the Premiership anymore. Everyone says these imports make the games exciting and fun to watch, with plenty of goals....so what are you saying? Games weren''t exciting in the 70s and 80s, when we had English footballers in our teams, not foreign tw*ts diving around and getting what they want, feigning injury and so on.

When we got promoted, there was a tinge of disappointment for me personally - I knew we wouldn''t stand a chance. Had we been promoted 7 or 8 years earlier, we may well have had a chance. But it''s teams like Arsenal with their multi-national squads...oh sorry, forgot Walcott - who are making promotion from this division a complete fiasco and waste of time. Teams just can''t compete anymore, and until something is done about regulating the number of foreigners in teams, I will want us to get promotion for one reason only, and that is to take the money and run, because there is sure as hell no chance of us becoming established the way things are.

[Mook 0]

Nobody is condoning diving. Unless they''re mental.

The fact is, football has moved on and while you lot stay in the 70s and 80s the more we will continue to get left behind. It''s a global game, it''s a global world. You''ll have to move with the times at some point.

Why does having foreigners in the premiership mean getting promoted is a "waste of time"???? I don''t get it! What have the foreigners got to do with promotion? Sounds like blame culture to me.

Wigan, West Ham, Reading, Bolton, Blackburn ect etc are proving that now is the perfect time to get promoted! If you can spot talent, who cares where they come from? I believe there should be a restriction, but to say English football was better in the 70s and 80s is not true.

FIFA are in charge of the game, they should stop the diving.

Also, since when is English football going down the gutter? We just got the the QFs of another World Cup. That''s about all we''ve ever done, and with the lack of talent in our team why do we deserve better?

[ca 1]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

So presumably you lot who are backing the Arsenal movement of having 11 foreigners on the pitch are pleased to see English football going down the gutter then?

I don''t know about you, but I can''t stand the Premiership anymore. Everyone says these imports make the games exciting and fun to watch, with plenty of goals....so what are you saying? Games weren''t exciting in the 70s and 80s, when we had English footballers in our teams, not foreign tw*ts diving around and getting what they want, feigning injury and so on.

When we got promoted, there was a tinge of disappointment for me personally - I knew we wouldn''t stand a chance. Had we been promoted 7 or 8 years earlier, we may well have had a chance. But it''s teams like Arsenal with their multi-national squads...oh sorry, forgot Walcott - who are making promotion from this division a complete fiasco and waste of time. Teams just can''t compete anymore, and until something is done about regulating the number of foreigners in teams, I will want us to get promotion for one reason only, and that is to take the money and run, because there is sure as hell no chance of us becoming established the way things are.

[/quote]

 

I''m not backing the Arsenal movement with foreign players Alex, as you say most premier teams can''t compete anymore which makes the premiership a total farce.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

So presumably you lot who are backing the Arsenal movement of having 11 foreigners on the pitch are pleased to see English football going down the gutter then?

I don''t know about you, but I can''t stand the Premiership anymore. Everyone says these imports make the games exciting and fun to watch, with plenty of goals....so what are you saying? Games weren''t exciting in the 70s and 80s, when we had English footballers in our teams, not foreign tw*ts diving around and getting what they want, feigning injury and so on.

When we got promoted, there was a tinge of disappointment for me personally - I knew we wouldn''t stand a chance. Had we been promoted 7 or 8 years earlier, we may well have had a chance. But it''s teams like Arsenal with their multi-national squads...oh sorry, forgot Walcott - who are making promotion from this division a complete fiasco and waste of time. Teams just can''t compete anymore, and until something is done about regulating the number of foreigners in teams, I will want us to get promotion for one reason only, and that is to take the money and run, because there is sure as hell no chance of us becoming established the way things are.

[/quote]

Pretty much a perfect analysis of what is going on Alex.......

How you cannot concede that football is going down the pan as our traditional national sport Mook I don''t know. Old school doesn''t necessarily mean inferior....just as new doesn''t mean best.....so to slate the 70s and 80s is to do injustice to the likes of George Best....Bobby Charlton.....Denis Law.....Peter Shilton......etc.etc........ Were they crap?  If you think so then I''m afraid your head is turned more by celebrity than fact.

It was a style of our own then that was the envy of the world.....now we are just like the continentals with teams full of prima donnas and over-paid pop stars. Kangaroo skin slippers and poncey ''air floater'' balls more suited to a circus than a football pitch.

The Premiership will die a death soon enough as they bleed the public..... excluding the grass roots fans with their extortionate prices. The 70s kids are now grown men and women with money in their pockets.......while the less well off  kids spend Saturdays on the X-box and Playstation. Tell me then........where are the fans of the future that clubs such as Norwich will one day depend on?

 

[Mook 0]

[quote user="cluckaduck"]

Pretty much a perfect analysis of what is going on Alex.......

How you cannot concede that football is going down the pan as our traditional national sport Mook I don''t know. Old school doesn''t necessarily mean inferior....just as new doesn''t mean best.....so to slate the 70s and 80s is to do injustice to the likes of George Best....Bobby Charlton.....Denis Law.....Peter Shilton......etc.etc........ Were they crap?  If you think so then I''m afraid your head is turned more by celebrity than fact.

It was a style of our own then that was the envy of the world.....now we are just like the continentals with teams full of prima donnas and over-paid pop stars. Kangaroo skin slippers and poncey ''air floater'' balls more suited to a circus than a football pitch.

The Premiership will die a death soon enough as they bleed the public..... excluding the grass roots fans with their extortionate prices. The 70s kids are now grown men and women with money in their pockets.......while the less well off  kids spend Saturdays on the X-box and Playstation. Tell me then........where are the fans of the future that clubs such as Norwich will one day depend on?

[/quote]

I pretty much agree with what you say, Cluck, but I bet you criticise our rotten showings, and lack of technical ability, when playing as the England team? And these boys have been nutured by their clubs, always been in the starting 11''s, not kept away from the team due to foreigners. They have been the English stars. So why are they technically so poor?

Re the 70s, the record speaks for itself - 1974 World Cup Did not Qualify. 1978 World Cup Did not Qualify.

Best, Charlton and Law are 60''s icons. Shilton was the exception not the rule. I believe we can compete better with the World''s elite when they play in our league. Football is being killed by money, not foreigners. If someone offered you 60k a week would you refuse?? 

I do believe that clubs should all have to field 5/6 players of their nation. But I also believe that English players do not have enough technical ability due to the schooling system and kids football training.

[Shack Attack 0]

So in the 70''s & 80''s we had a style that was the envy of the world eh?

World Cup 1970 - QF

World Cup 1974 - Did not qualify

World Cup 1978 -Did not qualify

World Cup 1982 - 2nd Round

World Cup 1986 - QF

Not exactly groundbreaking stuff is it!

I agree about the extortionate prices in the Premiership, but I don''t think that you can put the blame for this squarely down to the influx of foreign players. Yes they''re paid well, but then so are likes of Terry, Gerrard, Rooney etc. Look at the sulk Ashley Cole went into when he found out he wasn''t getting paid as much as Thierry Henry,