What if nobody can get the best out of this squad?

[The Real Buh 3,446]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I favour the Japanese philosophy of encouraging owning up to mistakes, accepting that everyone's fallible, looking to understand the reasons for the failure and encouraging correction rather than looking for scapegoats. This is why Japanese management is recognised as being so much superior to that in the Anglo-Saxon world.

When you were so wrong about Dean Smith you start talking about Japanese Manufacturing 

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

You never actually debate the points made or make reasoned points of your own; you just spout more subjective nonsense, edit in a few personal digs, and then get upset when called out on it.

Or, in this thread, blaming other fans for wanting Norwich to lose. As if anyone wanted to go to CR in -5c weather to watch that dross, be told by the manager that it's all their fault and then to come on here and read the same from some dull blowhard who's spent the last few months loudly attacking people who can see the malady within the club.

Grow up.

Get real - upset on here? That’s never happened and never will.

I was there last night, with an 8+ hour round trip, so don’t even think you can tell me what I can and can’t think/say. We were crap yesterday, it’s quite simple.

(As to edits, I do edit sometimes as do you.  I haven’t edited after you posted, perhaps while you were writing, as it takes the quote at that point. I don’t have notifications on so wouldn’t know you’d replied.]

[kirku 1,334]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This is why Japanese management is recognised as being so much superior to that in the Anglo-Saxon world.

Look up Karoshi. Japanese workplace culture isn't something that I think should be venerated 

[TheGunnShow 5,958]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Look up Karoshi. Japanese workplace culture isn't something that I think should be venerated 

Depends, their quality management is fine, some of the overtime/working hours-related matters are hugely problematic.

[kirku 1,334]

3 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I was there last night, with an 8+ hour round trip, so don’t even think you can tell me what I can and can’t think/say. We were crap yesterday, it’s quite simple.

Nobody is telling you what to think or say - just don't get upset when you're called out for talking unsubstantiated bullocks.

Again.

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Nobody is telling you what to think or say - just don't get upset when you're called out for talking unsubstantiated bullocks.

Again.

Ah yes, the ‘I’m always right’ brigade.

It appears a little bit lost on you that this is a discussion board.  People who don’t have your opinion aren’t talking ‘unsubstantiated ****’ any more than you.

[The Real Buh 3,446]

*littleyellowbirdie used Japanese manufacturing distraction*
 

*Its Super Effective!*

[kirku 1,334]

Just now, TheGunnShow said:

Depends, their quality management is fine, some of the overtime/working hours-related matters are hugely problematic.

Yeah, it's a big problem - I think largely borne from their cultural history. 

It's more than a bit cynical to laud Japanese productivity while turning a blind eye to these issues

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Ah yes, the ‘I’m always right’ brigade.

It appears a little bit lost on you that this is a discussion board.  People who don’t have your opinion aren’t talking ‘unsubstantiated ****’ any more than you.

I mean, you are in the 4 percent right now.

You might perhaps start to think that the 96 percent might be on to something?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, kirku said:

Yeah, it's a big problem - I think largely borne from their cultural history. 

It's more than a bit cynical to laud Japanese productivity while turning a blind eye to these issues

Badge of honour in Japan if you fall asleep at your desk as it shows you've worked yourself to exhaustion for your employer.

[TheGunnShow 5,958]

Just now, kirku said:

Yeah, it's a big problem - I think largely borne from their cultural history. 

It's more than a bit cynical to laud Japanese productivity while turning a blind eye to these issues

To be fair (knocking this miles off topic), if you've not heard of the phenomenon they call "herbivore men" (men who don't look for romantic relationships and are happy to see women as good platonic friends only), some Japanese social scientists seem to think - reasonably enough - that the relative collapse of jobs for life has played a massive part in it.

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

I mean, you are in the 4 percent right now.

You might perhaps start to think that the 96 percent might be on to something?

…4 percent of what?

[kirku 1,334]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Ah yes, the ‘I’m always right’ brigade.

It appears a little bit lost on you that this is a discussion board.  People who don’t have your opinion aren’t talking ‘unsubstantiated ****’ any more than you.

You've spent the last few months defending Smith - so, yes, you have been talking much more "unsubstantiated bullocks" than those who haven't.

That should be pretty obvious by this point.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

…4 percent of what?

Forum members still supporting Dean Smith. 

We are the 96!

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,333]

5 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

*littleyellowbirdie used Japanese manufacturing distraction*
 

*Its Super Effective!*

Only against water types because they're already wet 😉

For us normal types it's.. 

*It did nothing* 

Edited December 18, 2022 by GodlyOtsemobor

[TheGunnShow 5,958]

In keeping with this Japanese theme, Hajime Moriyasu as a new left-field funky proposal? He could be our new Kjetil Knutsen!

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

Forum members still supporting Dean Smith. 

We are the 96!

Sorry, what now?  I’ve no idea what you’re talking about. What’s this 4/96 and why do you think I’m part of it?

[kirku 1,334]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

To be fair (knocking this miles off topic), if you've not heard of the phenomenon they call "herbivore men" (men who don't look for romantic relationships and are happy to see women as good platonic friends only), some Japanese social scientists seem to think - reasonably enough - that the relative collapse of jobs for life has played a massive part in it.

So, we're in agreement that poor Japanese management has resulted in thousands of early deaths, is a contributing factor to their problematic birth rate and thus the looming demographic time bomb?

I guess it was a good analogy for Smith's reign after all!

😉

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Sorry, what now?  I’ve no idea what you’re talking about. What’s this 4/96 and why do you think I’m part of it?

96 percent is the proportion of pinkun members who want Dean Smith sacked this morning. 

I'm in that club.

You are a happy clapping fully signed up member of the Dean Smith fan club, along with the other 4 percent 

Edited December 18, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

3 minutes ago, kirku said:

You've spent the last few months defending Smith - so, yes, you have been talking much more "unsubstantiated bullocks" than those who haven't.

That should be pretty obvious by this point.

I’ve been hoping things would turn and he’d succeed.  It seems many would prefer him not to. That’s the way it is.  It’s not ‘talking bullocks’.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I woke up thinking this morning about Kenny McLean's sense of failure and how he  felt he had failed Daniel Farke when Farke was sacked.

What if most of the squad that was here under Farke carries that thought in their mind, that they're just not good enough no matter how much confidence they have in the manager?

On paper. Smith is the best manager we've ever recruited in my time following the club, but there's no ignoring the fact that, although the squad seems happy enough with him, they're simply not performing to the levels expected, and at the half way point, yesterday was probably the worst performance of the season after a long break that was supposed to see a step up in performances.

I'm wondering if there's simply no solution to this and we have to resign ourselves to the championship for a while until there has been enough squad turnover to reset.

Didn’t sound to me in the Hanley interview, on radio Norfolk, after the game that the squad was with Smith. Had multiple opportunities to defend smith but did not. Felt more like Smith was dammed but what was not said, you could feel the frustrations in his voice he clearly doesn’t agree with the way we are being told to play and all but said as much. 

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

96 percent is the proportion of pinkun members who want Dean Smith sacked this morning. 

It is?  I missed that.🤷🏻‍♂️  I’m not part of either then. 

[TheGunnShow 5,958]

3 minutes ago, kirku said:

So, we're in agreement that poor Japanese management has resulted in thousands of early deaths, is a contributing factor to their problematic birth rate and thus the looming demographic time bomb?

I guess it was a good analogy for Smith's reign after all!

😉

Not necessarily, I think that argument conflates economics with quality assurance and interpersonal management. Also, it's worth pointing out that whilst Japanese birth rates are low, they've got a serious cost-of-living problem in the cities and IIRC, the government are actually trying to lower the population to something nearer 100 million to ease such pressures.

EDIT: Not to mention, the transition to an economy where "jobs for life" are rarer is very much a First World phenomenon, not just Japan.

Edited December 18, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

It is?  I missed that.🤷🏻‍♂️  I’m not part of either then. 

Well go and vote then, see if you can bolster support to 5 percent 

[kirku 1,334]

6 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I’ve been hoping things would turn and he’d succeed.  It seems many would prefer him not to. That’s the way it is.  It’s not ‘talking bullocks’.

I hope I win the lottery every week but I don't base my financial plan on it.

Sometimes, it's worth evaluating the likelihood of your hopes coming true based on the evidence available. 

The only evidence we have available for Smith at Norwich is failure and degradation. 

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Well go and vote then, see if you can bolster support to 5 percent 

No, you’re ok.

[kirku 1,334]

6 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not necessarily, I think that argument conflates economics with quality assurance and interpersonal management. Also, it's worth pointing out that whilst Japanese birth rates are low, they've got a serious cost-of-living problem in the cities and IIRC, the government are actually trying to lower the population to something nearer 100 million to ease such pressures.

EDIT: Not to mention, the transition to an economy where "jobs for life" are rarer is very much a First World phenomenon, not just Japan.

I was just trying to make a snide joke about Smith!

But you can't isolate endemic management issues from economic impacts. They're intrinsically linked. Interpersonal management is inseparable from economics and vice versa.

Not sure how keeping birth rates low is going to help their pension/healthcare problems but I'm far from knowledgeable about Japan.

[TheGunnShow 5,958]

3 minutes ago, kirku said:

I was just trying to make a snide joke about Smith!

But you can't isolate endemic management issues from economic impacts. They're intrinsically linked. Interpersonal management is inseparable from economics and vice versa.

Not sure how keeping birth rates low is going to help their pension/healthcare problems but I'm far from knowledgeable about Japan.

Sure, but I'm saying the change from jobs for life is a problem all over, not just Japan.

Anyway, we've definitely gone gloriously off course here so we'll go back to Smith and his relative (de)merits.

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's interesting, because Roeder and Hughton are the two most unpopular managers historically. Maybe we should never recruit managers with good CVs?

I think there's something to be said for appointing managers/coaches for whom Norwich is the biggest job of their career so far. Pretty much all our successful appointments fit that mould.

[kirku 1,334]

12 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Sure, but I'm saying the change from jobs for life is a problem all over, not just Japan.

Anyway, we've definitely gone gloriously off course here so we'll go back to Smith and his relative (de)merits.

Out of reactions so 👍