What if nobody can get the best out of this squad?

[The Real Buh 3,446]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t disagree per se - my issue all along is that there has been a strong undercurrent of supporters who didn’t want him and never gave him the faintest chance.

I think his time is clearly running out unless there’s a turnaround of epic proportions - lising supporters with an abject showing is never good. The difference is that I’ll be disappointed as always hope things will work out, but it seems many will be pleased it hasn’t just for them to be ‘right’..  

I was right 

[TheGunnShow 5,957]

Tell you who I think we've missed. Lukas Rupp. His energy and willingness to get the ball forward, and his workrate would definitely have put a bit more pace into proceedings.

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Outstanding post; there's a lot of sense in there.

Indeed - which means it’ll get lost on many.

[kirku 1,334]

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t disagree per se - my issue all along is that there has been a strong undercurrent of supporters who didn’t want him and never gave him the faintest chance.

I think his time is clearly running out unless there’s a turnaround of epic proportions - lising supporters with an abject showing is never good. The difference is that I’ll be disappointed as always hope things will work out, but it seems many will be pleased it hasn’t just for them to be ‘right’..  

Dean Smith - "our fans want us to lose"

Branston Pickle - "our fans want us to lose"

 

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

I was right 

Good. For. You.

There’s a first time for everything.

 

[The Real Buh 3,446]

16 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Increasingly, I'm beginning to think it shows a couple of different things:

1. Farke was so wrapped up in his Plan A, which provided us with some of the most exciting football in purely technical terms that unravelling it to make a more durable squad in the long term is not a small job.
2. We really were dependent on Buendia, Skipp and to a slightly lesser extent, Pukki (Particularly his partnership with Buendia) in that second Championship-winning season, weren't we? (Somewhat linked to point 1 and a plan A). We now don't have Buendia and Skipp, and the supply line to Pukki isn't quite what it was. Clearly, the hope was that Hayden and Sara in particular would give us sufficient physical heft in the middle of the park, alongside McLean.
3. In physical terms, we do look a bit less like butterflies on a wheel - there were times under Farke's stewardship where you looked at the squad and thought "there's only Hanley who's physical". Zimmermann and Stiepermann were two big lads who didn't tend to throw their weight around too much and we had a veritable litany of lightweights who relied on outmanoeuvring the opposition. Nowadays with Sargent, Sara, Hayden and to a lesser extent McCallum we do look like we can give as good as we get when matches get a bit testier.

Don't get me wrong, yesterday was definitely ammo for those who think Smith's time is up as it was ponderous garbage in possession. There's nothing wrong with slow possession per se, but the problem was that we weren't using it as a foundation to change the pace very much when putting attacks together, or indeed draw the opposition out so we could counter at pace against a team pushing up. At the same time, two huge deflections that otherwise were dead easy saves decided the game, and Blackburn hardly created anything until a late surge when Smith went, relatively speaking, for broke.

At the minute, we're seeing a slightly disoriented squad, lacking a little belief, caught evolving between two stools. I think I can see what Smith is trying to do - he's trying to put a side together that's better at determining where play takes place rather than the exciting waves of attack that would happen under Farke, but with something (but less) of a focus on pure possession than we ever had under Farke. At the same time, Smith's clearly not averse to encouraging youngsters, which was also Farke's hallmark. Gibbs may have been our bright spot this season. Omo's generally been decent when not injured, McCallum's not done badly and is looking more like the promising player we thought we'd got from Coventry (there's still more progress required) and what a pity Rowe's injured.

We do need to get rid of a few players too. Gibson and Sinani would be top of my list, personally.

Crap post, Support Smith more

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

Just now, kirku said:

Dean Smith - "our fans want us to lose"

Branston Pickle - "our fans want us to lose"

 

 In actual fact I think you’ll find a number did say they wanted us to lose to Swansea.  Well done. 

[The Real Buh 3,446]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Good. For. You.

There’s a first time for everything.

 

And you

were wrong

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

37 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The commentary from fans at Brentford upon announcement that he was going to Villa disagrees with your point of view.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/10/11/brentford-fans-react-on-twitter-as-dean-smith-leaves-for-aston-v/

Their records in the league both before, during and after his reign does not.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

Rioch delivered the transition to sports science. He did similar with Arsenal. Forward thinking appointment and the first under Michael and Delia.

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

Just now, The Real Buh said:

And you

were wrong

I don’t agree, but one difference is clear:

- you want the manager to fail so that you’re right
- I want him to succeed so that the club is doing well.  

Spot the difference. 

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

36 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Suc a failure that Villa poached him? Interesting. Some will know about my links to Brentford, and he’s definitely not regarded as a failure there.

Was their aim not to make the play offs during his time there considering they had done so previously? Did they achieve this under him? Like I said failure.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,791]

7 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Tell you who I think we've missed. Lukas Rupp. His energy and willingness to get the ball forward, and his workrate would definitely have put a bit more pace into proceedings.

We've let many a midfielder leave on free transfers over the last 2 yrs ,better than McLean

Rupp Vrancic Leitner Trybull....yet we go and award the latter a 2yr contract

[kirku 1,334]

8 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

 In actual fact I think you’ll find a number did say they wanted us to lose to Swansea.  Well done. 

Roughly how many supporters are in this "number" and, more importantly, is it representative of the tens of thousands of Norwich fans?

It's a rhetorical question - of course it isn't. It's an absurd thing to say.

Practically everyone on this board and in the stands wanted Dean Smith to be the next Pep.

The only thing standing in the way of that is the objective reality of his tenure. That hopes did not match with evidence. Evidence of failure and fracture.

Edited December 18, 2022 by kirku

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

Just now, Ken Hairy said:

Was their aim not to make the play offs during his time there considering they had done so previously? Did they achieve this under him? Like I said failure.

Not in the opinion of my mates - they didn’t think they were anything like ready for PL at that time.  

[The Real Buh 3,446]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t agree, but one difference is clear:

- you want the manager to fail so that you’re right
- I want him to succeed so that the club is doing well.  

Spot the difference. 

Nah, you just aren’t very smart mate. Not very observant.

And people that cling to low standards like yours have lead to this insane hatred the club leadership have of fans.

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

Just now, kirku said:

Roughly how many supporters are in this "number" and, more importantly, is it representative of the tens of thousands of Norwich fans?

It's a rhetorical question - of course it isn't. It's an absurd thing to say.

Everyone on this board and in the stands wanted Dean Smith to be the next Pep.

The only thing standing in the way of that is the objective reality of his tenure. That hopes did not match with evidence. Evidence of failure and fracture.

You can look out the threads yourself - something you’ll enjoy doing I’m sure.

You do realise this is a discussion board and not a ‘kirku says “x” so it must be my opinion too’, don’t you. 

[kirku 1,334]

Just now, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

We've let many a midfielder leave on free transfers over the last 2 yrs ,better than McLean

Rupp Vrancic Leitner Trybull....yet we go and award the latter a 2yr contract

I think Rupp rejected a new contract? Not 100pc though.

Leitner had to go, Trybull is worse than McLean, and Vrancic was too old and unsuited to the PL

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Not in the opinion of my mates - they didn’t think they were anything like ready for PL at that time.  

Would any of them take him back though? No need to reply we already know that answer.

[TheGunnShow 5,957]

Just now, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

We've let many a midfielder leave on free transfers over the last 2 yrs ,better than McLean

Rupp Vrancic Leitner Trybull....yet we go and award the latter a 2yr contract

Dunno, Trybull didn't have the pace, Leitner definitely didn't have the temperament and seemed to be a problem within the camp, and IMO Vrancic needed Buendia alongside him, really.

It's Rupp's energy and off-the-ball workrate we really missed. The other three didn't really bring that to the extent Rupp did.

[FenwayFrank 2,460]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Dunno, Trybull didn't have the pace, Leitner definitely didn't have the temperament and seemed to be a problem within the camp, and IMO Vrancic needed Buendia alongside him, really.

It's Rupp's energy and off-the-ball workrate we really missed. The other three didn't really bring that to the extent Rupp did.

I think Gibbs is a good alternative to Rupp

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

8 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Their records in the league both before, during and after his reign does not.

Both Brentford and Villa were in better positions when he left than when he arrived? Bottom line is, if a manager leaves a club in better shape than when he arrived, then overall his reign is a sucess.

[TheGunnShow 5,957]

Just now, FenwayFrank said:

I think Gibbs is a good alternative to Rupp

Not a bad comparison to be fair. Rupp's probably the better physical specimen at the moment (speed and endurance) but Gibbs looks a bit more physically imposing in the tackle and looks very assured in possession for his age and inexperience at this level.

Actually, I have a hunch that Lungi and Gibbs as a double-pivot would be effective.

[kirku 1,334]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

You can look out the threads yourself - something you’ll enjoy doing I’m sure.

You do realise this is a discussion board and not a ‘kirku says “x” so it must be my opinion too’, don’t you. 

You never actually debate the points made or make reasoned points of your own; you just spout more subjective nonsense, edit in a few personal digs, and then get upset when called out on it.

Or, in this thread, blaming other fans for wanting Norwich to lose. As if anyone wanted to go to CR in -5c weather to watch that dross, be told by the manager that it's all their fault and then to come on here and read the same from some dull blowhard who's spent the last few months loudly attacking people who can see the malady within the club.

Grow up.

[kirku 1,334]

7 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

I think Gibbs is a good alternative to Rupp

Gibbs is one of the few bright spots of this season so far

[The Real Buh 3,446]

Just now, kirku said:

You never actually debate the points made or make reasoned points of your own; you just spout more subjective nonsense, edit in a few personal digs, and then get upset when called out on it.

Or, in this thread, blaming other fans for wanting Norwich to lose. As if anyone wanted to go to CR in -5c weather to watch that dross, be told by the manager that it's all their fault and then to come on here and read the same from some dull blowhard who's spent the last few months loudly attacking people who can see the malady within the club.

Grow up.

“viLLa LoVeD HiM!!” 

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Both Brentford and Villa were in better positions when he left than when he arrived? Bottom line is, if a manager leaves a club in better shape than when he arrived, then overall his reign is a sucess.

Brentford finished 5th the season before he arrived, he led them to successive mid table mediocre finishes before Franke came in and sorted them out.   I genuinely wish you were my boss with such low demands of your staff 😉

[nutty nigel 7,555]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not a bad comparison to be fair. Rupp's probably the better physical specimen at the moment (speed and endurance) but Gibbs looks a bit more physically imposing in the tackle and looks very assured in possession for his age and inexperience at this level.

Actually, I have a hunch that Lungi and Gibbs as a double-pivot would be effective.

Skipp n Rupp with Tettey on the bench takes some beating.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,564]

1 minute ago, Ken Hairy said:

Brentford finished 5th the season before he arrived, he led them to successive mid table mediocre finishes before Franke came in and sorted them out.   I genuinely wish you were my boss with such low demands of your staff 😉

I favour the Japanese philosophy of encouraging owning up to mistakes, accepting that everyone's fallible, looking to understand the reasons for the failure and encouraging correction rather than looking for scapegoats. This is why Japanese management is recognised as being so much superior to that in the Anglo-Saxon world.

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I favour the Japanese philosophy of encouraging owning up to mistakes, accepting that everyone's fallible, looking to understand the reasons for the failure and encouraging correction rather than looking for scapegoats. This is why Japanese management is recognised as being so much superior to that in the Anglo-Saxon world.

Maybe we should get a Japanese manager instead of Mr Dullard Solihull 1997 then?