Sargent

[chicken 2,642]

4 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

I get that point,  but I meant it in relative terms to us. I said last summer we shouldn't have been signing 11 players in that bracket but maybe 4 or 5 in the bracket up. 

My point was he hadn't proved his worth....... YET...... Go on to score 25 plus goals this season and he will have done,  and on last nights evidence he'll do exactly that,  but just worth remembering we declared the 2nd coming of Iwan Roberts after the Watford game. 

I get what you meant, and if you read around - I think Bailey did a piece on the targets we were originally after - you'll see that these players are what we turned to rather than wanted first off.

It also doesn't take much deduction. We bid more for Ajer and Armstrong than we paid for any player we signed. The issue with the "bracket up" is that we may well be paying £4-5m more for a player in fees and will be paying more in wages too. We are not in a position not to offer a relegation clause to that. Which means we are probably less competitive than some of our perceived rivals.

I know you point was to say that he hadn't proved his worth yet, I just simply don't agree with it. I actually believe that in flashes last season he showed why he was worth £8m. As I said a number of times, he was only 21, then turned 22 and had the birth of his first child around the same time. He is still young. People seem to give that patience to Idah, who is a year younger, but not to Sargent - who has actually been playing English football for less time.

The main issue with Sargent was that he was never going to be given the game time as a striker in the premier league whilst Pukki was fit - which is fair. At the same time, how do you expect him to deliver game in game out when he was on the wing? I'd love to know what his stats looked like in the games he started up front last season.

I know one was Bournemouth in the cup.

[shefcanary 2,448]

13 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Let's hope he continues in that vein with more confidence, as hopefully the penny drops with him that he really can do it over in the UK now.

It's not Sargent that needs to see the penny dropping, but Smith. I have been critical of Sarge, but only because he is not a ball player, he is a lump up the front who can work hard and run a lot. Playing him out wide is pointless. In previous posts I had suggested playing him as an out and out centre forward target man would be his only chance of salvation (even going as far as saying loan him out to a league 1 club specifically to learn the craft of that role, but seems he knows most of what is reqiired already) and these last two games have proved this. Smith was an idiot not see this and his obstinacy I think represents his weakness as a manager. Will Smith now swap roles between him and Pukki to keep him in the centre forward role of a 4-3-3? That's the big question as I think playing Pukki wide of Sargent is a way of keeping them both in the team and firing.

[shefcanary 2,448]

11 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

That 2nd  goal was near perfection.

And from a Millwall corner.

Omo's "have it" clearance that set it up! Very un-Norwich like, had me in tears! 🤣🤣🤣

[Mason 47 1,398]

3 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

It's not Sargent that needs to see the penny dropping, but Smith. I have been critical of Sarge, but only because he is not a ball player, he is a lump up the front who can work hard and run a lot. Playing him out wide is pointless.

Smith was an idiot not see this and his obstinacy I think represents his weakness as a manager. Will Smith now swap roles between him and Pukki to keep him in the centre forward role of a 4-3-3? That's the big question as I think playing Pukki wide of Sargent is a way of keeping them both in the team and firing.

'Smith was an idiot for playing Sargent, a striker, out wide!'

'Smith should play Pukki, a striker, out wide!'

If DS had started playing Sargent up front on his own last year and stuck Teemu on the bench, given the atmosphere at the club, he'd have been burned at the stake in Morrisons car park.

It's now just between Pukki and Sargent for the start, one for the bench. And the  between Idah and Hugill for the 3rd slot (could see whoever is seen as 4th leaving)

 

[shefcanary 2,448]

2 hours ago, Van wink said:

I think Smith quite likes Idah, if anyone goes I suspect it will be Hugill

Southwell hinted that Hugill's loan out is a real possibility in the Pink'un live reporting of the game yesterday. So yes, expecting it to happen now.

[shefcanary 2,448]

6 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

'Smith was an idiot for playing Sargent, a striker, out wide!'

'Smith should play Pukki, a striker, out wide!'

If DS had started playing Sargent up front on his own last year and stuck Teemu on the bench, given the atmosphere at the club, he'd have been burned at the stake in Morrisons car park.

It's now just between Pukki and Sargent for the start, one for the bench. And the  between Idah and Hugill for the 3rd slot (could see whoever is seen as 4th leaving)

 

To help clarify my potential contradiction as you highlighted, is Pukki a "striker" though? Not in the traditional sense, he scores most goals as we know from being fed the ball to run on to, which was why he has achieved so much success as defenders struggle to defend against him. I think he can still do this as a wide man in a 4-3-3. Sargent however is a more traditional striker, who is able to score in more ways to be fair than Pukki has been able to. It will be fascinating to see what Smith does from here, if he gets it right it might just make me change my perspective of him.

[Mason 47 1,398]

22 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

To help clarify my potential contradiction as you highlighted, is Pukki a "striker" though? Not in the traditional sense, he scores most goals as we know from being fed the ball to run on to, which was why he has achieved so much success as defenders struggle to defend against him. I think he can still do this as a wide man in a 4-3-3. Sargent however is a more traditional striker, who is able to score in more ways to be fair than Pukki has been able to. It will be fascinating to see what Smith does from here, if he gets it right it might just make me change my perspective of him.

Different type of player but Lukaku played very effectively on the right of a 3 for Inter, and I actually thought that was the idea with Sargent there. I could see Pukki taking up that sort of role for sure, but it would also mean missing one of the attacking midfielders which might fiddle with the balance. 

For now I just see it as Teemu v Josh for that centre forward slot (and isn't it refreshing to have that sort of competition for the first time in 5 years)

[Mengo 825]

2 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Different type of player but Lukaku played very effectively on the right of a 3 for Inter, and I actually thought that was the idea with Sargent there. I could see Pukki taking up that sort of role for sure, but it would also mean missing one of the attacking midfielders which might fiddle with the balance. 

For now I just see it as Teemu v Josh for that centre forward slot (and isn't it refreshing to have that sort of competition for the first time in 5 years)

Very refreshing indeed.

[Robert N. LiM 4,482]

3 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Yes, agree although we can’t afford to buy potential after promotion!   We need to do that after relegation so they have time to adapt and gain experience and confidence.   The likes of Nunez and Sara fit that bill but Ramsey is just wrong.   The lad is preventing development and game time for others.   He’s already preventing Sara from getting game time!   I fear that will be the case with Springett and /or Rowe too when fit!

Agreed that the Ramsey signing looks really odd unless Smith thinks there's a decent chance of making it permanent. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,360]

 Sargent deserves the praise after two excellent outings. I think most of us agree that he's unlikely to make much of an impact in the Premier League but if he continues this sort of form certainly will in the Championship. Seems like he's found his best position.

Unsurprisingly they seem less thrilled on the Millwall forum match thread ( Page 7 onwards ) but hey-ho.....

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by ......and Smith must score.

[ged in the onion bag 857]

39 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Agreed that the Ramsey signing looks really odd unless Smith thinks there's a decent chance of making it permanent. 

That’s the problem, absolutely no chance of that!    They’d want £20m figures!   We have a big enough squad that he’s not necessary!  

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 528]

Didn't Farke start Pukki as the number 10 behind Rhodes, and our season faltered until Pukki went up top?

I keep watching Sarge's second goal. It really does have a whiff of Grant Holt about it - we haven't had a striker who can fight off two defenders like that since Holty.

Wasn't Grant Holt played out on the wing by Forest, and he only came good when put up top? What a coincidence.

[chicken 2,642]

38 minutes ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

Didn't Farke start Pukki as the number 10 behind Rhodes, and our season faltered until Pukki went up top?

I keep watching Sarge's second goal. It really does have a whiff of Grant Holt about it - we haven't had a striker who can fight off two defenders like that since Holty.

Wasn't Grant Holt played out on the wing by Forest, and he only came good when put up top? What a coincidence.

Pukki moved up top and Rhodes to the bench after only a couple of games though IIRC. 

[chicken 2,642]

2 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

 Sargent deserves the praise after two excellent outings. I think most of us agree that he's unlikely to make much of an impact in the Premier League but if he continues this sort of form certainly will in the Championship. Seems like he's found his best position.

Unsurprisingly they seem less thrilled on the Millwall forum match thread ( Page 7 onwards ) but hey-ho.....

 

I disagree. He has all of the attributes to make it in the Premier League if he can become consistent. He has height, strength and pace. He appears to have improved his movement over the last year as well, which may happen with the influence of the likes of Pukki. If he can get a good head of steam going this season I don't see why he can't be a bit like Jerome if not better.

He's already a better player than Hugill IMHO. 

[Mason 47 1,398]

Just now, chicken said:

I disagree. He has all of the attributes to make it in the Premier League if he can become consistent. He has height, strength and pace. He appears to have improved his movement over the last year as well, which may happen with the influence of the likes of Pukki. If he can get a good head of steam going this season I don't see why he can't be a bit like Jerome if not better.

He's already a better player than Hugill IMHO. 

Although he's known better for set pieces, Allan Russell can also be thought of as a striker/ attacking coach. Done a lot of work with Harry Kane I think.

Could have nothing to do with it just as easily, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did 

[chicken 2,642]

Just now, Mason 47 said:

Although he's known better for set pieces, Allan Russell can also be thought of as a striker/ attacking coach. Done a lot of work with Harry Kane I think.

Could have nothing to do with it just as easily, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did 

In my experience you learn from good coaches no matter what their specialism is. When I played for Old Vaughnians in London, I had two coaches, one who worked for the FA in their HQ in London and one who I think was a youth coach at Barnet.

The one from the FA HQ pushed futsal and often had us train with a futsal ball. All I can say is it improved my touch and control hugely. The other was more about movement and game situations so designed/used minigames to get us to practice them. Both of those coaches improved me no end.

They added to the coaching I had received before, in different ways. That's also part of the concept of loaning players out. If coaches are good, you learn from them no matter what their style or approach. If you can get experience from several different coaches, it's only going to help as you are exposed to different ways of playing which you then use to help shape how you like to play and increase your adaptability.