Tuchel talks to Farke about Gilmour’s lack of game time

[Jersey Canary 149]

I think Gilmour needs to play behind Pukki in a 4231. In affect dropping Sargent. There won’t be too much physical need for him that high up the pitch so he can do all his fancy creative stuff which he is best at. Who know’s he might even create something? He’s got to be a better shout that Sargent?

[norfolkngood 1,097]

33 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Getting sulky with players doesn't make you tough.

If you want an example of his softer mannerisms,  What did he do when Kabak decided he wanted to have free run up the field at the weekend?  Most managers would've gone mental and stubbed it out early in the first half.

He sat silent, because Kabak isn't a push over, and has more experience than Farke and any of his team - probably tried it 4 times in the game without any kind of retribution from the bench.  Everyone around me where calling it out as dangerous at the start of the game, but we all had a bit of a giggle about it.

Ultimately,  That's what lead to us conceding the second.

Pundit on Sky said PL teams soon work that out , 

Kabak likes to dribble out of defence ,they let him do it then press close him down get the ball couple of passes later goal Bingo !! 

Like you said Farke should say lets defend first row z / long etc but do not get caught at the back messing around with the ball 

our Defenders are not good enough to do that in the PL  

clear your lines get back in shape and organise when you are bottom of the league 

[Mengo 826]

4 minutes ago, Jersey Canary said:

I think Gilmour needs to play behind Pukki in a 4231. In affect dropping Sargent. There won’t be too much physical need for him that high up the pitch so he can do all his fancy creative stuff which he is best at. Who know’s he might even create something? He’s got to be a better shout that Sargent?

Good shout. Tell farke will you please

 

[City 2nd 191]

He isn’t the first to be “frozen out” by DF is he? And he won’t be the last!

 

[Jim Smith 2,365]

8 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

Pundit on Sky said PL teams soon work that out , 

Kabak likes to dribble out of defence ,they let him do it then press close him down get the ball couple of passes later goal Bingo !! 

Like you said Farke should say lets defend first row z / long etc but do not get caught at the back messing around with the ball 

our Defenders are not good enough to do that in the PL  

clear your lines get back in shape and organise when you are bottom of the league 

Interesting. I did notice there was often a big gap in front of Kabak. Perhaps it was deliberate. 

[hepphep 175]

9 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

But wouldn't it been Fairer to judge Gilmour and Tzolis against the weaker teams not just the strong teams at start of the season ? 

Against Leeds we we crying out for some midfield who could pass and create chances 

what did Mclean do to keep his place ? 

Mclean might be the best trainer at the club but it is really down to how you perform match day 

 

For sure they would likely be more of use in those matches. On case of Tzolis we can maybe evaluate a bit as he played over 20 minutes there and rarely got into game during that time.

I think I mentioned that I think that both have qualities to make something happen, so I agree there to some extent. But if they are not either willing or capable yet to do the work also defensively then there is also a chance that they would cause more problems than bring into game. When working hard and having active press, it needs big work rate from everyone in the team and mentality to dedicate to defensive duties and tracking back opponents. If there is a single player that does not do that, the system can break up completely. Of course I cannot say that it is about that, but based on Gilmour's earlier appearances, tracking back is something he was not often willing to do. 

When looking at the team that was starting, we can clearly see that all the players we had selected are very hard working players with both pace and stamina. That is actually something that we have seem to have been looking for couple of games for now. PL is likely the league that has highest tempo & skill level combination that there is and if you want to be competitive you need to be able to respond to that demand at least on tempo. After that, you can add some flair. When thinking teams outside of very few top teams of the league, there is not a big amount of players that are not doing that work (can think only one or two). The luxury players that are not leaving everything out there also defensively, are usually something that only very top teams can field as they can control the game with sheer overall quality to maintain massive possession and have some truly world class defensive players covering them.

I trust that Gilmour and Tzolis will learn to adapt to those demands in time and will come good. And hopefully they will take the steps very soon as we really need some better delivery and flair on final third.

 

[Jim Smith 2,365]

Tzolis was disappointing when he came in to be honest but to be fair to him he came into a side that had lost all structure, with a midfield who were knackered (again but not changed) and who struggled to get any kind of cohesion going in that last 25 minutes. He’s also not played at all since the liverpool game. So tgere is some mitigation.

my opinion is that 3 from Rashica, Tzolis, Cantwell and Gilmour should be in that team every week (barring injuries - genuine ones not ones Farke has made up to justify snubbing Todd).

[Mengo 826]

2 hours ago, hepphep said:

For sure they would likely be more of use in those matches. On case of Tzolis we can maybe evaluate a bit as he played over 20 minutes there and rarely got into game during that time.

I think I mentioned that I think that both have qualities to make something happen, so I agree there to some extent. But if they are not either willing or capable yet to do the work also defensively then there is also a chance that they would cause more problems than bring into game. When working hard and having active press, it needs big work rate from everyone in the team and mentality to dedicate to defensive duties and tracking back opponents. If there is a single player that does not do that, the system can break up completely. Of course I cannot say that it is about that, but based on Gilmour's earlier appearances, tracking back is something he was not often willing to do. 

When looking at the team that was starting, we can clearly see that all the players we had selected are very hard working players with both pace and stamina. That is actually something that we have seem to have been looking for couple of games for now. PL is likely the league that has highest tempo & skill level combination that there is and if you want to be competitive you need to be able to respond to that demand at least on tempo. After that, you can add some flair. When thinking teams outside of very few top teams of the league, there is not a big amount of players that are not doing that work (can think only one or two). The luxury players that are not leaving everything out there also defensively, are usually something that only very top teams can field as they can control the game with sheer overall quality to maintain massive possession and have some truly world class defensive players covering them.

I trust that Gilmour and Tzolis will learn to adapt to those demands in time and will come good. And hopefully they will take the steps very soon as we really need some better delivery and flair on final third.

 

The system has already broken down defensively with the un dropables in the team as it is. Nothing is being learned at the moment either. Precise passing is non existent. The forwards are getting no quality balls to them. It's a big kick up the park and fingers crossed. Shambles.

[yellowrider120 797]

15 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I'm so tired of this discussion. He's just not that good. He had one good, not great game against a below par England side but since then has been poor or has faced pub league quality sides at international level. I'm sick of people saying he's clearly talented why isn't he playing....did you watch him at the start of the season? Little boy lost and most of his long passes and through balls just found the opposition, he was routinely and easily dispossessed and shrugged off the ball with minimum effort and his head went down when we went behind. 

Absolutely no better than Lukas Rupp and somehow even more physically weak 

You what!! Herr Farke has on more than one occasion described him as a 'fantastic' player (see my earlier post). If he is as you outlined then surely Farke is talking complete drivel then? Which is it?  

[Mengo 826]

5 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

You what!! Herr Farke has on more than one occasion described him as a 'fantastic' player (see my earlier post). If he is as you outlined then surely Farke is talking complete drivel then? Which is it?  

I'm so tired of this discussion. He's just not that good. He had one good, not great game against a below par England side but since then has been poor or has faced pub league quality sides at international level. I'm sick of people saying he's clearly talented why isn't he playing.

what utter **** . As far as cherry picking games. MoM many times. Oh its a below par England now is it. Austria and Denmark are below par as well. There is very few poor international teams these days. Or are the pundits and experienced ex players just making the stories up about him. His Scotland captain A Robertson claiming he can have as many games for Scotland as he wants. That now becomes difficult when for whatever reason the mindset of Daniel Farke is so so negative and depressing.  City have to up their game and start playing football very soon.

[norfolkngood 1,097]

3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Interesting. I did notice there was often a big gap in front of Kabak. Perhaps it was deliberate. 

i Imagine it was a Set Trap leave a Gap and let Kabak Dribble then Trigger a Press 

Anything like that trait and good managers will have that sorted in Tactics from previous Games they have watched 

[Mello Yello 2,315]

Sadly we're not the place or club to be for Young Billy to show and improve his craft.....at this point in his career.....

[Mengo 826]

24 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Sadly we're not the place or club to be for Young Billy to show and improve his craft.....at this point in his career.....

What a waste of a very good footballer.

He said: “Billy is a fantastic player, a fantastic human being and of course he wants to play each and every second,” the Norwich boss said. "If you love football, you love Billy Gilmour because this guy is a baller, but he is also a young lad and we have to look after him.

“It is not always that easy for him with the hype in his own country, with lots of praise for him. I think he has a good mindset and works hard on the pitch. He has unbelievable potential.”

yeah yeah. We get playing him .no use spouting all this talk and more without actions. 

[hepphep 175]

2 hours ago, Mengo said:

The system has already broken down defensively with the un dropables in the team as it is. Nothing is being learned at the moment either. Precise passing is non existent. The forwards are getting no quality balls to them. It's a big kick up the park and fingers crossed. Shambles.

I think we were pretty well up for the challenge in the Leeds match until they scored their second. We were active, winning the balls and our transition game was actually pretty good in both offensive and defensive transitions. We also had lots more variety in our offensive play compared to previous games including running with ball and dribbling that helped us to get them overnumbered locally. In many ways it seemed like massive improvement to previous games (even to the ones where we got the draws). It was just lacking the quality in final decisions that kept us out of scoring positions and conceding a shot that should've never gone in. I do agree that Gilmour is more likely to be able to help with that final delivery, but it really means that he has to be prepared to pull out as hard working shift as others did in last match. I have no doubt that when he is considered capable of doing that, he will be back on lineup.

Currently it is hard to say who he should replace. McLean brings high work rate there and also can have his moments of flair, so playing in his position likely would not be good option. Normann is engine of the team at the moment and is covering lots of ground defensively as well. Rashica could be one option, but he actually did pretty good shift defensively and has threatening pace (even though lacks his final decision making). Sargent is also working his socks off and is pretty important for counter pressing, which is something Gilmour was lacking when he was playing. So if we replace Sargent then we would have to drop active counter pressing, which would likely make us lots easier to play against. Maybe Dowell is the one that could be replaced by Gilmour and still keep the balance. Then it comes to matter of opinion which you would prefer to see on that position Dowell, Gilmour or Tzolis. The best option in my opinion would be Cantwell if we could just get him back. But that is something that I and others can have opinions about, but management can observe competition for that spot continuously in training sessions.

[Mengo 826]

12 minutes ago, hepphep said:

I think we were pretty well up for the challenge in the Leeds match until they scored their second. We were active, winning the balls and our transition game was actually pretty good in both offensive and defensive transitions. We also had lots more variety in our offensive play compared to previous games including running with ball and dribbling that helped us to get them overnumbered locally. In many ways it seemed like massive improvement to previous games (even to the ones where we got the draws). It was just lacking the quality in final decisions that kept us out of scoring positions and conceding a shot that should've never gone in. I do agree that Gilmour is more likely to be able to help with that final delivery, but it really means that he has to be prepared to pull out as hard working shift as others did in last match. I have no doubt that when he is considered capable of doing that, he will be back on lineup.

Currently it is hard to say who he should replace. McLean brings high work rate there and also can have his moments of flair, so playing in his position likely would not be good option. Normann is engine of the team at the moment and is covering lots of ground defensively as well. Rashica could be one option, but he actually did pretty good shift defensively and has threatening pace (even though lacks his final decision making). Sargent is also working his socks off and is pretty important for counter pressing, which is something Gilmour was lacking when he was playing. So if we replace Sargent then we would have to drop active counter pressing, which would likely make us lots easier to play against. Maybe Dowell is the one that could be replaced by Gilmour and still keep the balance. Then it comes to matter of opinion which you would prefer to see on that position Dowell, Gilmour or Tzolis. The best option in my opinion would be Cantwell if we could just get him back. But that is something that I and others can have opinions about, but management can observe competition for that spot continuously in training sessions.

I want all the team new guys to be up for it. Its not happening. There is no vision at the moment. You need someone in there that can be a game changer. A football brain in his head. A passer of good balls. A servant for pukki.  This is not happening. There is a lack of somebody who is willing to take responsibility.  The team is crying out for the skills he has its plainly obvious to me. I'm lost 😕 in the mindset of the team just now.