When will the UK rejoin the EU?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,717]

Just now, dylanisabaddog said:

No, try again. It's now 55%

Cool, let's join the eu, accept the euro and everyone will be out in the streets singing kumbahyah, holding hands and kissing and a unity the world has never seen with peace and happiness across the UK forever and nobody will ever question us being in the EU again.

No wait why do I feel like the opposite would happen instead?

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

Because you're not very good at sums? 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

20 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Cool, let's join the eu, accept the euro and everyone will be out in the streets singing kumbahyah, holding hands and kissing and a unity the world has never seen with peace and happiness across the UK forever and nobody will ever question us being in the EU again.

No wait why do I feel like the opposite would happen instead?

Apparently, that is what democracy is all about and let's face it, there is precious little peace, happiness or unity on show at the minute.

So pretty difficult to see how things could get worse than currently, although TBF Sunak is clearly trying his best to achieve exactly that during his final months in office.

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

Seem to me the wheels are already in motion, the EUniverse re-aligning.

SKS is looking for closer ties to sort some of the obvious issues. The EU has an independent report (French and German) about enlargement (yes the EU is growing) and the notion of a multi-tier EU i.e. 'associate membership'. I note Norway is not in the EU but the SM etc.

Tick-tock.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[PurpleCanary 5,560]

I am not sure about rejoining but what Starmer is doing now is interesting, because I suspect he is thinking quite some way ahead. The predictions that he won't be able to achieve much initially with the EU in his first term as PM are probably generally true, if overstated, but I think miss the point.

If he is planning for the future then what may be limited renegotiations, hemmed in by the pre-election pledges not to go back into the single market or a customs' union, will just be a preparatory first step.

Those pledges count only for the next election, and may not be renewed. If he wins a second term, even if in some kind of coalition with the LibDems, or actually especially if so, then he may have not just a theoretical political mandate to go much further.

He will also have the active backing of an electorate that desperately wants to get out from under what by all but the maddest of the mad will know - and publicly accept - is the insanity of Brexit.

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

11 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I am not sure about rejoining but what Starmer is doing now is interesting, because I suspect he is thinking quite some way ahead. The predictions that he won't be able to achieve much initially with the EU in his first term as PM are probably generally true, if overstated, but I think miss the point.

If he is planning for the future then what may be limited renegotiations, hemmed in by the pre-election pledges not to go back into the single market or a customs' union, will just be a preparatory first step.

Those pledges count only for the next election, and may not be renewed. If he wins a second term, even if in some kind of coalition with the LibDems, or actually especially if so, then he may have not just a theoretical political mandate to go much further.

He will also have the active backing of an electorate that desperately wants to get out from under what by all but the maddest of the mad will know - and publicly accept - is the insanity of Brexit.

Yes PC - I rather suspect that in his first term he will achieve quite a lot but it will make glaringly obvious the fuller solution of rejoining the SM. That'll be for the following administration to 'consider'.     

Edited September 20, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[PurpleCanary 5,560]

Just now, Yellow Fever said:

Yes PC - I rather suspect that in his first term he will achieve quite a lot but it will make the glaringly obvious the fuller solution of rejoining the SM. That'll be for the following administration to 'consider'.     

This independent report you mention is interesting, albeit for the moment only as a discussion piece. But the EU probably has to realign in some kind of way because it will grow.

Significantly, despite the predictions of Brexiters, not one current country has decided to follow Brexit. Even LePen has moved away from wanting a Frexit. And not one of the applicant countries has decided it doesn't after all want to join.

So if there are various categories of membership, with different levels of involvement, that could well ease the UK's path back in, with the possibility of moving closer to the centre later on.

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Significantly, despite the predictions of Brexiters, not one current country has decided to follow Brexit. Even LePen has moved away from wanting a Frexit. And not one of the applicant countries has decided it doesn't after all want to join.

I can't think of a single Brexiteer prediction that has come true. The latest opinion poll (albeit only 10 member states) shows a strengthening of support. Strangely, support was lowest in Greece which is still a basket case and probably shouldn't have been allowed to join in the first place. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/13/positive-views-of-european-union-reach-new-highs-in-many-countries/

Edited September 20, 2023 by dylanisabaddog

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I can't think of a single Brexiteer prediction that has come true. The latest opinion poll (albeit only 10 member states) shows a strengthening of support. Strangely, support was lowest in Greece which is still a basket case and probably shouldn't have been allowed to join in the first place. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/13/positive-views-of-european-union-reach-new-highs-in-many-countries/

This poll may cover only 10 states but I seem to recall that the EU conducts its own poll of all members - can't remember whether this is every year or every few years but that also showed a considerable strengthening of pro-EU sentiments amongst the member countries post-Brexit.

Also as PC points out Le Pen has completely dropped her Frexit policy and several other anti-EU parties across the EU have either gone extremely quiet, or dropped the policy altogether. It seems that Brexit has proved to be a very salutary lesson right across Europe and killed off any other 'exit' campaign for a decade at least and quite possibly forever - the complete opposite in fact to what the Brexiteers so confidently predicted 😀

[littleyellowbirdie 2,549]

5 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

This poll may cover only 10 states but I seem to recall that the EU conducts its own poll of all members - can't remember whether this is every year or every few years but that also showed a considerable strengthening of pro-EU sentiments amongst the member countries post-Brexit.

Also as PC points out Le Pen has completely dropped her Frexit policy and several other anti-EU parties across the EU have either gone extremely quiet, or dropped the policy altogether. It seems that Brexit has proved to be a very salutary lesson right across Europe and killed off any other 'exit' campaign for a decade at least and quite possibly forever - the complete opposite in fact to what the Brexiteers so confidently predicted 😀

They've dropped it because Poland and Hungary have shown that the EU is far more vulnerable from within. If mainstays like France get EU hostile governments then the EU's in real trouble. If they get power then the EU will be gutted from the inside.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,549]

Speaking of Poland and Hungary, they, along with Slovakia, are creating more headaches for the EU by ignoring the EU common market to impose unilateral bans on grain imports from Ukraine, and thus undermining the integrity of the principles of the single market and Customs Union. Yet more examples of members just breaking the rules to suit themselves with little the EU can do about it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66849185

Edited September 21, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Speaking of Poland and Hungary, they, along with Slovakia, are creating more headaches for the EU by ignoring the EU common market to impose unilateral bans on grain imports from Ukraine, and thus undermining the integrity of the principles of the single market and Customs Union. Yet more examples of members just breaking the rules to suit themselves with little the EU can do about it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66849185

And your point is what exactly??

Rule breaking to suit themselves and disputes are scarely anything new and despite your suggestion that the EU can do little about it, the fact is that in the past such issues have been resolved even though on occasion it has taken quite a while.

By contrast, in the UK since we have' taken back control' we have a Government which has on multiple occasions broken both international and UK laws to suit their malign agenda - as recently as yesterday our idiot PM & Government which are already in breach of their legal responsibilities re the Climate Emergency dropped all pretence that they have any intention of fulfilling those legal resposibilites.

And what can we or anyone do about it - S**** F*** A**!!!

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

It's quite simple, the one figure that people can quote from the Brexit debate is the £350m written on the side of the bus.

That's an economic argument (and a lie).

It' no surprise our resident stupid person finds this all a bit too confusing.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,549]

On 21/09/2023 at 14:41, A Load of Squit said:

It's quite simple, the one figure that people can quote from the Brexit debate is the £350m written on the side of the bus.

That's an economic argument (and a lie).

It' no surprise our resident stupid person finds this all a bit too confusing.

 

Stupid.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,549]

On 21/09/2023 at 13:52, Creative Midfielder said:

And your point is what exactly??

Rule breaking to suit themselves and disputes are scarely anything new and despite your suggestion that the EU can do little about it, the fact is that in the past such issues have been resolved even though on occasion it has taken quite a while.

By contrast, in the UK since we have' taken back control' we have a Government which has on multiple occasions broken both international and UK laws to suit their malign agenda - as recently as yesterday our idiot PM & Government which are already in breach of their legal responsibilities re the Climate Emergency dropped all pretence that they have any intention of fulfilling those legal resposibilites.

And what can we or anyone do about it - S**** F*** A**!!

That much is true. Nothing anyone can do about any of it, up to and including that we've left the EU.

But it's very telling that this thread is full of hysterics about supposed international rule breaking by the UK only for shoulders to be shrugged where it happens in the EU.

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

-

Edited September 23, 2023 by Yellow Fever
wrong thread

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

On 23/09/2023 at 06:29, littleyellowbirdie said:

That much is true. Nothing anyone can do about any of it, up to and including that we've left the EU.

But it's very telling that this thread is full of hysterics about supposed international rule breaking by the UK only for shoulders to be shrugged where it happens in the EU.

Don't think I've observed much in the way of shoulder shrugging on this thread or indeed any real hysterics.

But I can't see why you wouldn't expect a fair bit of comment, and indeed anger, from people when their country which has a longstanding reputation for the rule of law, the quality of its legal system, honouring its international obligations etc find both that reputation and reality being trashed by a government which has no scruples whatsoever about breaking international law or breaching its international obligations.

This is especially true when the governing party guilty of such appalling conduct is always extolling our history and values whilst preaching a creed of British exceptionalism.

Well, I suppose compared to most advanced western democracies we are exceptional but it is definitely not in the direction that the Tory party would have us believe, very much the opposite in fact.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,549]

5 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Don't think I've observed much in the way of shoulder shrugging on this thread or indeed any real hysterics.

But I can't see why you wouldn't expect a fair bit of comment, and indeed anger, from people when their country which has a longstanding reputation for the rule of law, the quality of its legal system, honouring its international obligations etc find both that reputation and reality being trashed by a government which has no scruples whatsoever about breaking international law or breaching its international obligations.

This is especially true when the governing party guilty of such appalling conduct is always extolling our history and values whilst preaching a creed of British exceptionalism.

Well, I suppose compared to most advanced western democracies we are exceptional but it is definitely not in the direction that the Tory party would have us believe, very much the opposite in fact.

This bit right here. This is the biggest utter load of rubbish perpetuated on this tedious thread. What was the whole Brexit process if not a procedure dotting the Is and crossing the Ts in terms of international law? It was done according to EU treaty with a process set by the EU. The most we've had is the odd dispute over NI invoking provision in the NI protocol that has not been tested in court. So really, stop spouting utter nonsense.

Again and again many areas where the EU gives the finger to international law are highlighted, and again again it's ignored, while you maintain this stupid pretense that the UK is some rabid international law breaker. Poland, Hungary, Romania, all breaking EU law and international law banning imports unilaterally from Ukraine; and wha't's the EU doing about it? Nothing. What can the EU do about it? Nothing.

Absolute utter rubbish. For you, the EU simply bleating something about the UK breaking international law makes it fact; that's not how international law works.

The UK is one of the top destinations for dispute settlement right now. That's because we have a top notch reputation for doing things by the book. Any suggestion otherwise is so much meaningless waffle.

Edited September 26, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

13 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This bit right here. This is the biggest utter load of rubbish perpetuated on this tedious thread. What was the whole Brexit process if not a procedure dotting the Is and crossing the Ts in terms of international law? It was done according to EU treaty with a process set by the EU. The most we've had is the odd dispute over NI invoking provision in the NI protocol that has not been tested in court. So really, stop spouting utter nonsense.

Again and again many areas where the EU gives the finger to international law are highlighted, and again again it's ignored, while you maintain this stupid pretense that the UK is some rabid international law breaker. Poland, Hungary, Romania, all breaking EU law and international law banning imports unilaterally from Ukraine; and wha't's the EU doing about it? Nothing. What can the EU do about it? Nothing.

Absolute utter rubbish. For you, the EU simply bleating something about the UK breaking international law makes it fact; that's not how international law works.

The UK is one of the top destinations for dispute settlement right now. That's because we have a top notch reputation for doing things by the book. Any suggestion otherwise is so much meaningless waffle.

😂😂.....ditto.....😂😂

[littleyellowbirdie 2,549]

2 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

😂😂.....ditto.....😂😂

Tw4t. No amount of laughing faces distract from the fact you're simply full of sh1t. Just your usual fatuous remarks.

Edited September 26, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

• Report post 

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Tw4t.

😂😂.....ditto.....😂😂

[littleyellowbirdie 2,549]

6 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Don't think I've observed much in the way of shoulder shrugging on this thread or indeed any real hysterics.

But I can't see why you wouldn't expect a fair bit of comment, and indeed anger, from people when their country which has a longstanding reputation for the rule of law, the quality of its legal system, honouring its international obligations etc find both that reputation and reality being trashed by a government which has no scruples whatsoever about breaking international law or breaching its international obligations.

This is especially true when the governing party guilty of such appalling conduct is always extolling our history and values whilst preaching a creed of British exceptionalism.

Well, I suppose compared to most advanced western democracies we are exceptional but it is definitely not in the direction that the Tory party would have us believe, very much the opposite in fact.

Okay, smart ****. List the judgements in international law in the last 20 years where the UK has broken international law to back up your claim about the UK being a terrible international law breaker. Let's see how you get on, sh1t for brains. Failure to do so is admission you really are full of sh1t and have no idea what you're talking about.

Edit: Actually, make it the last 8 years, from 2015 where the Conservatives assumed majority government to make it easy for you, if indeed, there's even a tiny thread of truth to the cr4p you're spouting.

Edited September 26, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

17 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Okay, smart ****. List the judgements in international law in the last 20 years where the UK has broken international law to back up your claim about the UK being a terrible international law breaker. Let's see how you get on, sh1t for brains. Failure to do so is admission you really are full of sh1t and have no idea what you're talking about.

Edit: Actually, make it the last 8 years, from 2015 where the Conservatives assumed majority government to make it easy for you, if indeed, there's even a tiny thread of truth to the cr4p you're spouting.

For goodness sake, read  @Creative Midfielder post again. He makes it quite clear that he believes this country to have had an excellent record in the past. Quite right too. 

What he has said is that the current Government has shown a willingness to trash that reputation. That's difficult to argue as well when you consider what has happened since Johnson became PM.