New Tory Leader

[Herman 9,836]

@newsthump.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Herman

[MooreMarriot 313]

13 hours ago, Herman said:

What the bloody hell SW Norfolk??

 

Plenty of damming comments from posters about the intellect of Norfolk people underneath that story.

Including:

" Do they favour the banjo and fiddle combo around there? "

[A Load of Squit 5,222]

14 hours ago, Herman said:

What the bloody hell SW Norfolk??

 

The poor woman is just existing in a vacuum where she makes a statement and people are immediately reminded she was the 44 day PM who crashed the economy in double quick time.

The people of SW Norfolk are cruel to perpetuate this purgatory for Truss, maybe it's revenge. 

[dylanisabaddog 5,009]

To put things in perspective, here's the result from the last General Election. A 50% lead down to 20%. That's an enormous swing. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by dylanisabaddog

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

30 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

To put things in perspective, here's the result from the last General Election. A 50% lead down to 20%. That's an enormous swing. 

Was wondering where those stats were - the progression would always say far more than the snapshot at one moment in time.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,599]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

To put things in perspective, here's the result from the last General Election. A 50% lead down to 20%. That's an enormous swing. 

The swing doesn't matter under first past the post though; those changed votes will make no difference to the outcome.

Edited April 12, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[dylanisabaddog 5,009]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The swing doesn't matter under first past the post though; those changed votes will make no difference to the outcome.

I think you've missed the point. Those figures, if sustained, will result in

Labour 349

SNP       47

LD         26

 

Conservative 205

 

[Well b back 3,281]

More investigations by the standards commission.  Including a shocked and surprised Matt Hancock.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65253933

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,599]

5 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I think you've missed the point. Those figures, if sustained, will result in

Labour 349

SNP       47

LD         26

 

Conservative 205

 

I don't see what that has to do with Liz Truss keeping South West Norfolk and swings are seldom uniform between constituencies, since there's always a complicated mix of personality preference v party. For example, in 1997, Gillian Shephard and Michael Portillo had similar majorities before, but Gillian kept her seat while Portillo lost his.

But also, with really massive majorities there's a muddle of voter apathy at not believing their vote will make a difference, which discourages turnout. And in Liz truss' case, there's no scope for tactical voting either. Conservative voters either stick conservative or go Labour, which is the most difficult swing of all.

Edited April 12, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,836]

I did have my suspicions that it was the wokey wokesters. I thought the sheer incompetence of these clowns was too far fetched a reason.

 

[dylanisabaddog 5,009]

51 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 Conservative voters either stick conservative or go Labour, which is the most difficult swing of all.

😂

[sonyc 5,541]

43 minutes ago, Herman said:

I did have my suspicions that it was the wokey wokesters. I thought the sheer incompetence of these clowns was too far fetched a reason.

 

And I thought it was because there are too many of the left wing anti-growth economic establishment.

 

(Edit: And ironically not enough of them in SW Norfolk)

 

[Herman 9,836]

35 minutes ago, sonyc said:

And I thought it was because there are too many of the left wing anti-growth economic establishment.

 

(Edit: And ironically not enough of them in SW Norfolk)

 

Coming up on the John Peel Show, The Left Wing Economic Establishment will be airing their brand new single "Socialists In Environmental Clothing".

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I don't see what that has to do with Liz Truss keeping South West Norfolk and swings are seldom uniform between constituencies, since there's always a complicated mix of personality preference v party. For example, in 1997, Gillian Shephard and Michael Portillo had similar majorities before, but Gillian kept her seat while Portillo lost his.

But also, with really massive majorities there's a muddle of voter apathy at not believing their vote will make a difference, which discourages turnout. And in Liz truss' case, there's no scope for tactical voting either. Conservative voters either stick conservative or go Labour, which is the most difficult swing of all.

Not sure there, I'd have said the frustrated and more conservative wing would head towards UKIP/Reform (depending on era) and the more liberal ones would head towards the LibDems if they wanted to protest.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not sure there, I'd have said the frustrated and more conservative wing would head towards UKIP/Reform (depending on era) and the more liberal ones would head towards the LibDems if they wanted to protest.

Thats right. Most Tories would never vote Labour but as the 2019 election proved, many Labour would vote Tory if immigration is the main policy.

[sonyc 5,541]

26 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Thats right. Most Tories would never vote Labour but as the 2019 election proved, many Labour would vote Tory if immigration is the main policy.

I think (but I'm not sure) that the Tories might get slaughtered. They will lose support to Labour and the Lib Dems. And I agree, if you're a lifelong Tory you could never vote Labour. If you don't know your mind then you might vote anything but I cannot see someone so fixed doing a volte face. I could see Labour voters doing the opposite. Maybe your point about immigration is relevant and why the current administration appear to be putting it very much forward in their presentations. 

I base my opinion on what I hear anecdotally - in terms of what folk think in my neighborhood - but also on things like Question Time. Audiences appear to have quite a hatred of this lot. It's felt like a trend for many months. Watching occasionally has made me feel more hopeful about attitudes. Many folk are very articulate about what's been happening with the environment, economy, local services.

Only 25% to 30% are conservative in this country and the vast majority are centre / centre left. It's been said so many times that our system has kept bringing them in. People like Truss, Raab and Rees Mogg. Totally unsuitable people (just my view).  A hard core will keep voting for these people. It won't matter how Raab behaves, or what Truss believes or how Rees Mogg goads people. And people even still like the character that is Johnson, ignoring his record of lying.

Perhaps the electoral system will change in our lifetimes?  When there is a belief that Ireland will be reunited within 10 years is it hard to believe in FPTP going? Or is it too much in the self interest of Tory and Labour?

Edited April 13, 2023 by sonyc

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

I think (but I'm not sure) that the Tories might get slaughtered. They will lose support to Labour and the Lib Dems. And I agree, if you're a lifelong Tory you could never vote Labour. If you don't know your mind then you might vote anything but I cannot see someone so fixed doing a volte face. I could see Labour voters doing the opposite. Maybe your point about immigration is relevant and why the current administration appear to be putting it very much forward in their presentations. 

I base my opinion on what I hear anecdotally - in terms of what folk think in my neighborhood - but also on things like Question Time. Audiences appear to have quite a hatred of this lot. It's felt like a trend for many months. Watching occasionally has made me feel more hopeful about attitudes. Many folk are very articulate about what's been happening with the environment, economy, local services.

Only 25% to 30% are conservative in this country and the vast majority are centre / centre left. It's been said so many times that our system has kept bringing them in. People like Truss, Raab and Rees Mogg. Totally unsuitable people (just my view).  A hard core will keep voting for these people. It won't matter how Raab behaves, or what Truss believes or how Rees Mogg goads people. And people even still like the character that is Johnson, ignoring his record of lying.

Perhaps the electoral system will change in our lifetimes?  When there is a belief that Ireland will be reunited within 10 years is it hard to believe in FPTP going? Or is it too much in the self interest of Tory and Labour?

There is an inherent thought among Tories that a LAbour Government could never help them. That the object of the Party is to put them up against a wall, after raping them, and give their houses to scroungers.

I think Blair proved and SKS will endeveavour to do, that wealth can be created and distributed without the wholesale sacrifices of the middle classes. They cannot see that even socialism still rewards the clever, gifted and dedicated. Just not at the expense of the greater.

While the electoral system is clearly unfair. there would be no need if there was a consensus in the population that we all work together for the benefit of each other. Not to create a gulf.

[Well b back 3,281]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

I think (but I'm not sure) that the Tories might get slaughtered. They will lose support to Labour and the Lib Dems. And I agree, if you're a lifelong Tory you could never vote Labour. If you don't know your mind then you might vote anything but I cannot see someone so fixed doing a volte face. I could see Labour voters doing the opposite. Maybe your point about immigration is relevant and why the current administration appear to be putting it very much forward in their presentations. 

I base my opinion on what I hear anecdotally - in terms of what folk think in my neighborhood - but also on things like Question Time. Audiences appear to have quite a hatred of this lot. It's felt like a trend for many months. Watching occasionally has made me feel more hopeful about attitudes. Many folk are very articulate about what's been happening with the environment, economy, local services.

Only 25% to 30% are conservative in this country and the vast majority are centre / centre left. It's been said so many times that our system has kept bringing them in. People like Truss, Raab and Rees Mogg. Totally unsuitable people (just my view).  A hard core will keep voting for these people. It won't matter how Raab behaves, or what Truss believes or how Rees Mogg goads people. And people even still like the character that is Johnson, ignoring his record of lying.

Perhaps the electoral system will change in our lifetimes?  When there is a belief that Ireland will be reunited within 10 years is it hard to believe in FPTP going? Or is it too much in the self interest of Tory and Labour?

My vote will be purely tactical, to do nothing other than remove my Tory MP. Therefore I will be voting in a way that gives that the maximum chance of happening. 
It will also be interesting to see in the May Elections, how many protest by just not voting, and how many non Tory voters will be stopped from voting because of the ID issues.

[sonyc 5,541]

2 hours ago, Well b back said:

My vote will be purely tactical, to do nothing other than remove my Tory MP. Therefore I will be voting in a way that gives that the maximum chance of happening. 
It will also be interesting to see in the May Elections, how many protest by just not voting, and how many non Tory voters will be stopped from voting because of the ID issues.

In many ways WBB Labour and the Tories are slightly different versions of each other. The most electable Labour government has slightly more of a conscience. I realise that is quite a generalisation. And I'm exaggerating. The latter wants to be more even handed with how resources are distributed. More of a balancing than anything massively different or radical.

But I'm quite a bit left of that position. Like you I used to place my vote to try get rid of the Tory (in recent years) but this time I'm voting 100% with my conscience - to try and match - the best fit to my beliefs.

All that said, I would be happy with something more caring, benign even. A government that supports the NHS and care sector, funds local services properly and especially tries to fund a better environment. The last 13 years have been wasted (again my view and don't expect you to agree with me). And further to that waste of sheer potential to do good or lead the country - morally too, the outcomes of this government are going to keep emerging for many more years. I'm talking crime, poverty, health. So much could have been done. Should have been done. What we have witnessed is the cult of personality coupled with unpleasant policies. This government will be noted in the history books in very grave terms. Singly, the worst administration in my lifetime. And by some - and that includes the Thatcher years (never felt that would be possible).

Once this lot are cleared out you probably won't hear much from me on these kinds of threads (hooray I hear you say) - I've felt more motivated politically because of the unfairness I've seen in outcomes and life chances for many (through work and volunteering). I'm as easy going a person as you'd ever meet. That said, if Labour get in and **** things up I couldn't say I won't be complaining ahead for sure.

Further, despite one or two who hang around these threads who dislike 'liberal' thinkers intensely I reckon possibly about 90% think similarly to me.

Yes, it will indeed be interesting to see about the local elections and turnout. Roll on October 2024 though.

Edited April 13, 2023 by sonyc
message to self - time to stop repeating same old stuff

[littleyellowbirdie 2,599]

3 hours ago, sonyc said:

I think (but I'm not sure) that the Tories might get slaughtered. They will lose support to Labour and the Lib Dems. And I agree, if you're a lifelong Tory you could never vote Labour. If you don't know your mind then you might vote anything but I cannot see someone so fixed doing a volte face. I could see Labour voters doing the opposite. Maybe your point about immigration is relevant and why the current administration appear to be putting it very much forward in their presentations. 

I base my opinion on what I hear anecdotally - in terms of what folk think in my neighborhood - but also on things like Question Time. Audiences appear to have quite a hatred of this lot. It's felt like a trend for many months. Watching occasionally has made me feel more hopeful about attitudes. Many folk are very articulate about what's been happening with the environment, economy, local services.

Only 25% to 30% are conservative in this country and the vast majority are centre / centre left. It's been said so many times that our system has kept bringing them in. People like Truss, Raab and Rees Mogg. Totally unsuitable people (just my view).  A hard core will keep voting for these people. It won't matter how Raab behaves, or what Truss believes or how Rees Mogg goads people. And people even still like the character that is Johnson, ignoring his record of lying.

Perhaps the electoral system will change in our lifetimes?  When there is a belief that Ireland will be reunited within 10 years is it hard to believe in FPTP going? Or is it too much in the self interest of Tory and Labour?

This is exactly why PR support is so important in the long term and why Labour deserve condemnation for still being so opposed to it. I'm at a loss as to how anyone who considers themselves centre left can condone Labour bucking the trend on the subject, and yet many still do.

i don't see Reform doing much in the end, what with EU membership being a thing of the past. Cost of living is most people's priority from what I can see. . The right of the Conservative party, such as JRM represent a fringe of voters, so I don't see them being as much of a threat as some people reckon. The biggest threat to the Conservatives at the next election will be the Lib Dems.

The belief in Irish reunification isn't the prevailing view in Northern Ireland at the moment.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/12/03/poll-shows-northern-ireland-rejects-unity-by-large-margin/

[sonyc 5,541]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This is exactly why PR support is so important in the long term and why Labour deserve condemnation for still being so opposed to it. I'm at a loss as to how anyone who considers themselves centre left can condone Labour bucking the trend on the subject, and yet many still do.

i don't see Reform doing much in the end, what with EU membership being a thing of the past. Cost of living is most people's priority from what I can see. . The right of the Conservative party, such as JRM represent a fringe of voters, so I don't see them being as much of a threat as some people reckon. The biggest threat to the Conservatives at the next election will be the Lib Dems.

The belief in Irish reunification isn't the prevailing view in Northern Ireland at the moment.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/12/03/poll-shows-northern-ireland-rejects-unity-by-large-margin/

Agree with you. That's why I stated Labour and Tories have a self interest - will wait and see if the stance changes but don't expect it to. It will need a concerted social media campaign to start. TRhe view of 10 years was from Mary Lou MacDonald, Sinn Fein leader. It is clear why she might say that. But...it may depend on what happens to the DUP. Public views are changing too.

[dylanisabaddog 5,009]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

This government will be noted in the history books in very grave terms. Singly, the worst administration in my lifetime. And by some - and that includes the Thatcher years (never felt that would be possible).

I couldn't stand Thatcher but she was intelligent, honest (in general) and I actually believe that she thought she was doing the right thing for the country. She wasn’t, but that's a matter of opinion. 

As opposed to the last 13 years where  mainly Cameron, Clegg and Johnson have destroyed our country for the financial benefit of their friends. 

Not only have they destroyed our country, it's quite possible that they've destroyed the Conservative Party as well. That should be good news for a moderate Socialist like me, but it's not is it? When one party is strong and the other is weak it never ends well. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,599]

9 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Agree with you. That's why I stated Labour and Tories have a self interest - will wait and see if the stance changes but don't expect it to. It will need a concerted social media campaign to start. TRhe view of 10 years was from Mary Lou MacDonald, Sinn Fein leader. It is clear why she might say that. But...it may depend on what happens to the DUP. Public views are changing too.

The most interesting development in Northern Irish politics is the rise of the Alliance party, who do actually draw support from either side of the ideological divide, but clearly wanting more emphasis on functional politics in Northern now. Looking at opinions within, alliance, they've won more support from the Ulster unionist side of the fence over the, but still with substantial support coming from the republican side of the fence.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/rise-of-alliance-reveals-surprising-facets-of-north-s-shifting-politics-1.4880004

[canarydan23 4,060]

18 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This is exactly why PR support is so important in the long term and why Labour deserve condemnation for still being so opposed to it. I'm at a loss as to how anyone who considers themselves centre left can condone Labour bucking the trend on the subject, and yet many still do.

i don't see Reform doing much in the end, what with EU membership being a thing of the past. Cost of living is most people's priority from what I can see. . The right of the Conservative party, such as JRM represent a fringe of voters, so I don't see them being as much of a threat as some people reckon. The biggest threat to the Conservatives at the next election will be the Lib Dems.

The belief in Irish reunification isn't the prevailing view in Northern Ireland at the moment.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/12/03/poll-shows-northern-ireland-rejects-unity-by-large-margin/

I think "at the moment" is the key term. As the article said, there is a majority for holding a referendum, though in NI the preference is for it to be within the next 10 years. The number of Catholics in NI is increasing whilst non-Catholic Christians are on the wane. That said, the highest growth in the last 20 years is by those who state No Religion.

Back in Britain, if I didn't live in a Lab/Con marginal, there is no way on god's green earth I would even contemplate voting for Starmer's Labour. If Norwich Greens weren't such a joke, they would be a tempting proposition, but realistically I'm likely to hold my nose and vote Labour purely as an attempt to deny the Tories. If I was in a Lib/Con marginal, I would be voting Lib Dems in a heartbeat.

I am quite enjoying Starmer's determination to **** all over the godsend of an opportunity he's being given by the Tory meltdown. I've said on another thread, my absolute dream outcome for the next election is for Labour to be the biggest party but unable to form a majority and for the Lib Dems to offer electoral reform as their price. No election, just legislation. Ideally PR list, but I'd be happy with any sort of proportional system.

Possible pipedream, but the way Starmer is going, at least the post-election parliamentary arithmetic could be achievable. We'd just need the Lib Dems to be bold enough to put the offer to them, because it's clear to anyone with sense that Starmer will do absolutely anything to get power, even if that means ending the prospect of a Labour parliamentary majority (and, crucially, a Tory one too) for generations.

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

8 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I couldn't stand Thatcher but she was intelligent, honest (in general) and I actually believe that she thought she was doing the right thing for the country. She wasn’t, but that's a matter of opinion. 

As opposed to the last 13 years where  mainly Cameron, Clegg and Johnson have destroyed our country for the financial benefit of their friends. 

Not only have they destroyed our country, it's quite possible that they've destroyed the Conservative Party as well. That should be good news for a moderate Socialist like me, but it's not is it? When one party is strong and the other is weak it never ends well. 

Exactly, a stronger Tory Party might actually force Starmer to come up with a brave, radical and reformist manifesto. As it is, he can get away with a Tory Lite program and slavishly listen to his moronic advisers who think these gutter-politics attack ads are a good idea.

[sonyc 5,541]

12 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

As opposed to the last 13 years where  mainly Cameron, Clegg and Johnson have destroyed our country for the financial benefit of their friends. 

Spot on. With Cameron we saw it as he left the podium singing to himself upon resigning and in his shameless and pathetic defence of Greensill. John Harris in the Guardian tweets the same picture he had taken of him sitting on the steps of his shepherds hut every other week. It is pure satire and shows (to me) how much he despises Cameron. Clegg was a weird version of Cameron and soon jumped to FB - with a false narrative that he wanted to influence the world - when all he cared about was money. For me he abandoned his liberal ideals. And Johnson, what else is there to say, he is shameless and he bristles with entitlement. Unlike any of these three you do get the sense that with Thatcher it was not all about herself (in retrospect) and she clearly wanted the best for the country (I almost choke writing this but such is the comparison with this current crop of Z listers).

Edited April 13, 2023 by sonyc

[TheGunnShow 6,019]

2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Spot on. With Cameron we saw it as he left the podium singing to himself upon resigning and in his shameless and pathetic defence of Greensill. John Harris in the Guardian tweets the same picture he had taken of him sitting on the steps of his shepherds hut every other week. It is pure satire and shows (to me) how much he despises Cameron. Clegg was a weird version of Cameron and soon jumped to FB - with a false narrative that he wanted to influence the world - when all he cared about was money. For me he abandoned his liberal ideals. And Johnson, what else is there to say, he is shameless and he bristles with entitlement. Unlike any of these three you do get the sense that with Thatcher it was not all about herself (in retrospect) and she clearly wanted the best for the country (I almost choke writing this but such is the comparison with this current crop of Z listers).

Thought Andrew Marr summed it up quite well in A History of Modern Britain. Thatcher essentially had a vision of solid, reliable institutions with people using solid money, keeping things relatively local based on her childhood as the daughter of a grocer. The problem was, her reforms led to the polar opposite.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,599]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I think "at the moment" is the key term. As the article said, there is a majority for holding a referendum, though in NI the preference is for it to be within the next 10 years. The number of Catholics in NI is increasing whilst non-Catholic Christians are on the wane. That said, the highest growth in the last 20 years is by those who state No Religion.

Back in Britain, if I didn't live in a Lab/Con marginal, there is no way on god's green earth I would even contemplate voting for Starmer's Labour. If Norwich Greens weren't such a joke, they would be a tempting proposition, but realistically I'm likely to hold my nose and vote Labour purely as an attempt to deny the Tories. If I was in a Lib/Con marginal, I would be voting Lib Dems in a heartbeat.

I am quite enjoying Starmer's determination to **** all over the godsend of an opportunity he's being given by the Tory meltdown. I've said on another thread, my absolute dream outcome for the next election is for Labour to be the biggest party but unable to form a majority and for the Lib Dems to offer electoral reform as their price. No election, just legislation. Ideally PR list, but I'd be happy with any sort of proportional system.

Possible pipedream, but the way Starmer is going, at least the post-election parliamentary arithmetic could be achievable. We'd just need the Lib Dems to be bold enough to put the offer to them, because it's clear to anyone with sense that Starmer will do absolutely anything to get power, even if that means ending the prospect of a Labour parliamentary majority (and, crucially, a Tory one too) for generations.

 

Totally agree with you on that. Who knows, maybe Starmer is a closet PR fan who can't sell it in his own party and he's actively trying to dampen their poll ratings to get a coalition that forces PR on the table... you never know! 🙂

This neck of the woods is very popular for weddings coming from Ireland. The people I usually end up talking to are typically in their 20s or 30s. Obviously all anecdotal, but snippets that stuck in my mind were:

• a group from the Republic of Ireland very frustrated with the limits on policy placed on the republic by the dominant position of the Catholic church.
• The Catholic priest from Northern Ireland telling me how difficult it was to get younger replacements into the Catholic clergy.
• The Northern Irish Catholic groom recounting to me how the Catholic clergy used to be regarded as royalty by the Catholic community in NI, but less so with the younger generation.
• Interesting little insights like how unionists would dominate most of the plum worker jobs in industry historically, forcing Catholics into other professions, which has finished up leaving Catholics by and large more prosperous as Northern Irish industry has waned (What interested me about that observation was you might expect a degree of satisfaction about that, but actually there wasn't a hint of it).
• Massive frustration at how frequently Stormont is dysfunctional

Collectively, it just doesn't speak to the outcomes for Northern Ireland being as straightforward as people make out, especially when you bear in mind that Northern Ireland effectively has the cake and eat it Brexit arrangements some leave voters believed were possible for the UK. Unification means NI will be giving up a unique and privileged commercial position with easy access to the EU market plus whatever the UK builds over the next 10 years outside of the EU.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,599]

52 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Spot on. With Cameron we saw it as he left the podium singing to himself upon resigning and in his shameless and pathetic defence of Greensill. John Harris in the Guardian tweets the same picture he had taken of him sitting on the steps of his shepherds hut every other week. It is pure satire and shows (to me) how much he despises Cameron. Clegg was a weird version of Cameron and soon jumped to FB - with a false narrative that he wanted to influence the world - when all he cared about was money. For me he abandoned his liberal ideals. And Johnson, what else is there to say, he is shameless and he bristles with entitlement. Unlike any of these three you do get the sense that with Thatcher it was not all about herself (in retrospect) and she clearly wanted the best for the country (I almost choke writing this but such is the comparison with this current crop of Z listers).

The tune as he walked away was a reaction driven by shock in my view.

As for Grenfell, there was a select committee report dating back to 2001 triggered by a similar cladding fire in Scotland in 1999 recommending changes to legislation on cladding, so Labour doesn't escape blame given their own inaction in response to a report while they were in government.

Edit: I got the dates wrong. The report was 1999, which said, among other things

Quote

Paragraph 24

We would strongly support any moves to consolidate existing fire safety legislation.

17. In making this recommendation there was a reference to a letter the Committee had seen from George Howarth saying that he was very keen on bringing in a Fire Safety Bill to bring together the 69 separate pieces of legislation that currently cover fire safety. George Howarth has now moved from the Home Office, but the Home Secretary remains committed to the rationalisation and simplification of fire safety legislation, and I fully endorse that objective. Up to now it has not been possible to secure Parliamentary time for a Bill. However, the Home Secretary expects shortly to establish a new Fire Safety Advisory Board which will resolve outstanding issues and develop detailed proposals for legislative change. The Board will also give priority to examining whether, in advance of primary legislation, it would be possible to make use of planned legislation this Session on regulatory reform to secure some of the desired improvements.

18. I hope that this serves to reassure you that the Committee's concerns with regard to the potential risk of fire spread in buildings via external cladding systems have, or are being, addressed.

As we all now know, nothing happened.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmenvtra/109/10907.htm

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmenvtra/389/38904.htm

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40406057

Edited April 13, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Totally agree with you on that. Who knows, maybe Starmer is a closet PR fan who can't sell it in his own party and he's actively trying to dampen their poll ratings to get a coalition that forces PR on the table... you never know! 🙂

This neck of the woods is very popular for weddings coming from Ireland. The people I usually end up talking to are typically in their 20s or 30s. Obviously all anecdotal, but snippets that stuck in my mind were:

• a group from the Republic of Ireland very frustrated with the limits on policy placed on the republic by the dominant position of the Catholic church.
• The Catholic priest from Northern Ireland telling me how difficult it was to get younger replacements into the Catholic clergy.
• The Northern Irish Catholic groom recounting to me how the Catholic clergy used to be regarded as royalty by the Catholic community in NI, but less so with the younger generation.
• Interesting little insights like how unionists would dominate most of the plum worker jobs in industry historically, forcing Catholics into other professions, which has finished up leaving Catholics by and large more prosperous as Northern Irish industry has waned (What interested me about that observation was you might expect a degree of satisfaction about that, but actually there wasn't a hint of it).
• Massive frustration at how frequently Stormont is dysfunctional

Collectively, it just doesn't speak to the outcomes for Northern Ireland being as straightforward as people make out, especially when you bear in mind that Northern Ireland effectively has the cake and eat it Brexit arrangements some leave voters believed were possible for the UK. Unification means NI will be giving up a unique and privileged commercial position with easy access to the EU market plus whatever the UK builds over the next 10 years outside of the EU.

 

I come from Irish stock on my mother's side, a Catholic Irish Grandad and an Ulster Grandma raised as a Protestant but was disowned by most of her family when she married by Grandad and converted later in life.

From my purely anecdotal experience, it seems something weird is happening in that the Catholics I know of my age and younger are looking less longingly at the Republic and young Protestants are looking at Westminster and being somewhat repulsed. The feeling is that there's almost the seeds of an independence movement among the younger generations, separate of both Great Britain and Ireland! Obviously that's not on the cards, but with the slight Catholic ascendancy in the population and the recent successes of Sinn Fein I think make a referendum probable in the next decade. I find that prospect a little troubling given how divisive the Scottish indy ref was, I suspect there will be blood.

Another thing I find interesting is that Catholic and Protestant seems to be more of an identity than a faith among millennial and gen Z Northern Irish. Most of them will tell you they are Catholic or Protestant, but if you ask them about their religious beliefs, plenty will say, "Oh, I don't believe in God", never mind attend Church. But they'll tick Catholic, Methodist, etc on the census or answer "Catholic" if asked their religion.

I've holidayed in Brittany the last two summers and was surprised at how many Irish tourists were there. In fact, last year I stayed with an Irish holiday company because they were about 20% cheaper than Eurocamp for a near identical caravan on the same campsite.