The Never-President Trump

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I think anything is rigged when the person in two horse race who gets the most votes comes second

[king canary 7,606]

40 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think anything is rigged when the person in two horse race who gets the most votes comes second

The Electoral College is dumb but it isn't rigged.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

The Electoral College is dumb but it isn't rigged.

It kind of is though, in a slightly similar way to the UK system. The 'rigging' isn't at the ballot box, but it is built into the system, e.g. in England the Stoke-on-Trent Central consituency has 55,429 voters, whilst the Isle of Wight constituency has 113,021 so that effectively blows the 'one person, one vote' notion out of the water before you even start voting, and before you go into the skullduggery that sometimes goes on when drawing the constituency boundaries.

[king canary 7,606]

35 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

It kind of is though, in a slightly similar way to the UK system. The 'rigging' isn't at the ballot box, but it is built into the system, e.g. in England the Stoke-on-Trent Central consituency has 55,429 voters, whilst the Isle of Wight constituency has 113,021 so that effectively blows the 'one person, one vote' notion out of the water before you even start voting, and before you go into the skullduggery that sometimes goes on when drawing the constituency boundaries.

I would say our system is much more rigged than the US system but I take your point. I think the Electoral College will likely go in the not too distant future.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

8 hours ago, king canary said:

The Electoral College is dumb but it isn't rigged

Well whoever enacted it in the first place certainly rigged it so that you don't vote, someone else does.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

And now the man who cries wolf about free speech talks of denying it by shutting it down.

Is he standing on an ancient Communist manifesto?

[Van wink 2,994]

A powerful message.( sorry the link seems a bit dodgy )

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

More citizens killed by their own police in US each day than in the UK per year.

President just inflames the situation by threatening more violence. He should be in Minneapolis appealing for calm and telling the diverse protesters that he will act on Police violence.

And to appease all those with different leanings. Yes many of the black people are not doing their cause any good by looting and burning the businesses and properties of people who might very well sympathise with them.

And I would like BAME people to realise that this nation of ours may not be completely free of racists and bigots. Just the same as we are not free of homophobia, mysogyny, paedophilia, murder, theft etc. But our nation is progressing with it laws and attitudes and nowhere near the nasty and vicious nature of the US.

[Surfer 1,547]

It  has been a very tough week here in the USA.

i am going to be very careful what I say and ask for posters to respond in kind. These events are not unrelated to the broader political situation. 

One of the key facts to be aware of is that there are provocateurs - captured on video - smashing windows of buildings before the protests took a turn towards violence. 

Who these people are, we do not yet know. But the video evidence shows that they are white. It could be we are only seeing the videos of white people, but the clear fact is at least some of the people inciting violence are white. 

Are these people left wing anarchists who are interested in eliminating any government order, or right wing agents desperate to use America’s foundational fault line - race - as a political tool? 

I do not know, but these are dark days and likely to get worse. I asked before for your thoughts and prayers for America, I’m asking again now. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Surfer

[Surfer 1,547]

.p.s we will get through this moral crisis. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Surfer

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

p.s we will get through this moral crisis. 

Well I wasn't far into senior school when the Alabama University desegregation protests erupted. I was at the same age in the UK and had a English born black friend at the same school.

It appears to me the US has not moved fast or far enough to give black people in particular, the equality that is theirs by right. 

And this President by talking mainly about traditional white conventions is making it far worse.

[SHRIMPER 328]

On lots of the footage I have seen, a lot of the building have the anachists symbol scrawled all over them. He is bound to say "Good people on both sides" As an atheist I will not be doing any praying but hope things calm down very quickly as I have lots and lots of family there.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Levitation? Certainly no secret of how the virus spreads in the US. He isn't even wearing white gloves

Edited May 30, 2020 by keelansgrandad

[Herman 9,765]

Something odd going on definitely. The black American community is righteously angry and undoubtedly responsible for some of the trouble. But from what I have seen and read there does seem to be a few agent provocateurs in action, (the white man with high tech respirator, hammer and umbrella for example) and with right wing twitter now being ramped up to get Antifa trending I do fear something really bad is being stirred up.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

It may well be the old trick that Antifa are thinking of using. Make it easier for an idiot like Trump to send in the National Guard etc. Then it escalates and Antifa start enrolling those feeling hard done by. It escalates more etc. 

And the hardest done by, the underprivileged black population, are the ones arrested. Then the rednecks say told you so.

[SHRIMPER 328]

It was all down to the left wing according to Barr a short while ago.

[Surfer 1,547]

Well AG Barr was the one who said Trump was exonerated by the Mueller report, so many will question his judgement on these matters prior to confirming evidence being produced.

[Surfer 1,547]

We have three main storylines going on here in the US to keep track of - 1. and 3. are related.

1. External interference in the last election, and the attempt to exonerate those involved in it.

2. The CoronaVirus and it's economic impact on American society / healthcare / employment. 

3. The upcoming election and exploiting society's tensions as a means of divide and conquer. 

I'll post individually on these threads as there are multiple items of news to summarize. 

[Surfer 1,547]

5 minutes ago, Surfer said:

We have three main storylines going on here in the US to keep track of - 1. and 3. are related.

1. External interference in the last election, and the attempt to exonerate those involved in it.

AG Barr - he of the infamous press conference where he summarized the Mueller Report as exonerating the President - has made several dubious legal moves this Spring, one of which was to try and withdraw the prosecution of Gen. Flynn. As part of that process, the administration just de-classified a transcript of the conversation Flynn was having with Amb. Kislyack. 

It makes clear why the judge overseeing Flynn's trial was questioning why his charges were so light.... and why this Russia issue is not going to go away, here or in the UK, until properly examined by parties not funded by Russia. 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Surfer

[Surfer 1,547]

16 minutes ago, Surfer said:

We have three main storylines going on here in the US to keep track of - 1. and 3. are related.

2. The CoronaVirus and it's economic impact on American society / healthcare / employment. 

The story here is much the same as as the story in the UK. Complete disorganization, however as our political system is federalized the state governors can act independently of the federal gov.

Much of the story is on the antics of the President, when the real story is what is happening in the states themselves. Overall it's going O.K, but suspicions of rushing to re-open and fudging the statistics about the infection rate and deaths abound. Oh and I almost forgot, suspicious stock sales by sitting US Senators as a cherry on top.

[Surfer 1,547]

31 minutes ago, Surfer said:

We have three main storylines going on here in the US to keep track of - 1. and 3. are related.

3. The upcoming election and exploiting society's tensions as a means of divide and conquer. 

The main story before the violence of recent night erupted, was the fact the President is falling behind in polls, and actions to dirty up his opponent - like was done to Hillary Clinton before the 2016 election with the Bengazi scandal - and moves to suppress voting by mail. This latter being proposed as a counter to health concerns with a potential second virus wave. Oh and of course the Twitter rant over being fact checked... leading to a dubious Executive Order.

And note the Russia issue is mentioned in the EO... 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Surfer

[Surfer 1,547]

3 hours ago, Surfer said:

We have three main storylines going on here in the US to keep track of - 1. and 3. are related.

3. The upcoming election and exploiting society's tensions as a means of divide and conquer. 

On to these last few days. These riots are a big issue within themselves, but we have to zoom out to see the bigger picture. The is a long history of racial tension in the USA, which is in effect our "Cold War" after the "hot war" of slavery and the Civil War. And there is a long history of police departments hosting the bad as well as the good - as you would expect in any society. 

However, two things I would point out: 

In these riots, it's clear that there are outside agitators, and the several police departments have lost control of their local situation / and some may be actually instigating violence. The video evidence of arrests and gassing of the press are nothing less than astonishing to witness. 

It's also clear that other police departments have defused their situation, even marched with the protestors, and the protest is much broader than the black community. There is a upwelling of support that may have been driven by the recent images of armed militia groups and the sense that the extreme right is getting away with - let's just say murder of the constitution at least. 

The lack of leadership from the Federal Government is not a surprise, in fact the statements out of the White House wereincreasingly tense, unhelpful and inflammatory. Whether racial tension is seen as a politically helpful scenario or not I will not comment on. But this is a critical moment in time for the USA to decide just what type of country it wants to be. 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Surfer

[Surfer 1,547]

 

These policing actions are not normal. I will refrain from posting the more violent images that are circulating. If you are interested they are certainly available to you. 

One has to wonder what effect of over three years of "the press are the enemy of the people" rhetoric has had in these actions. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Surfer

[Surfer 1,547]

On the other hand several police chiefs have been witnessed marching alongside the protestors, as well as entering into discussion with them. So the national policing response has been extremely varied. 

Overall, these nation-wide protest are generally peaceful, with black, hispanic and white citizens marching side by side. A usual it's the violence that gets covered giving a very different picture of reality.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Surfer

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Good chance of the virus spreading looking at all these images.

[Surfer 1,547]

Indeed there is. It’s our practical experiment in “herd immunity” and “track & trace” systems.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Peaceful demo in London, Surfer. I would like to think world opinion might get the US to rein in how its police are allowed to kill first and ask questions after.

But with Trump just bubbling on the surface, probably longing to end it so his reign doesn't get worse, I don't see legislation being written.

[Herman 9,765]

21 hours ago, SHRIMPER said:

It was all down to the left wing according to Barr a short while ago.

And bingo. All the fault of left wing and Antifa. It's too easy to see what these scumbags are doing.

[Surfer 1,547]

Indeed KG.

A bad situation just got worse - again this comes down to trust in government. It's very clear that there were right wing agitators and anti-fascist agitators involved, but AG Barr and the President only criticize the anti-fascists. I will leave people to make their own conclusions.

p.s. under US Law there is no ability to do what the President just "announced" he has done, that regulation applies to overseas organizations like the PLO. 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Is the KKK a terrorist organisation?