EU In or Out ?

[SwindonCanary 455]

23 June 2016.  Which way are you voting ?For me it''s OUT - Almost nothing the EU has proposed or enacted has benefited Britain –

our trawler fleet has been devastated by the Common Fisheries Policy

while our taxpayers have found themselves massively subsidising

inefficient French and Polish farmers under the Common Agricultural

Policy.  Whilst Most people don’t take issue with migrants as people or hold anything

against them on a personal level. The problem we have is simply space.

Compared to other European countries we are just massively overcrowded. Our infrastructure just cannot cope. OUT . OUT .OUT.

[Johnny Stump 1]

I don''t know nearly enough about the pros and cons to make an informed decision at the moment, but I I''ll make sure I look past the spin if that''s possible.

At the moment i would vote to stay in. Preserving the status quo and all that.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

So you want out because you run out of space in your cage, tweety pie? You will not gain space by leaving and you might find that far more important economic matters play more on people''s mind.one question, Explain, what is the EU going to replaced with? slogans just don''t do it for people.

[Herman 9,780]

The main problem I have is that I see the people running the out campaign, Gove, Galloway, Farage and the bumbling,opportunistic idiot and I know that I don''t want anything that they are proposing, even if some of what they are saying is truthful.I''d rather we were a big player in a big thing like Europe, rather than a small,broken up island on the periphery of everything. Even though Europe does need reforms I''d prefer we stay in and change it from the inside.Unfortunately, with our media in control I fear we are heading for an out vote.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Herman "]The main problem I have is that I see the people running the out campaign, Gove, Galloway, Farage and the bumbling,opportunistic idiot and I know that I don''t want anything that they are proposing, even if some of what they are saying is truthful.I''d rather we were a big player in a big thing like Europe, rather than a small,broken up island on the periphery of everything. Even though Europe does need reforms I''d prefer we stay in and change it from the inside.Unfortunately, with our media in control I fear we are heading for an out vote.[/quote]Is that a joke? The media are and will continue to do everything in their power to encourage us to vote remain - especially the BBC who receive millions from the EU.

[Herman 9,780]

Have you actually read any of the main newspapers?

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Herman "]The main problem I have is that I see the people running the out campaign, Gove, Galloway, Farage and the bumbling,opportunistic idiot and I know that I don''t want anything that they are proposing, even if some of what they are saying is truthful.I''d rather we were a big player in a big thing like Europe, rather than a small,broken up island on the periphery of everything. Even though Europe does need reforms I''d prefer we stay in and change it from the inside.Unfortunately, with our media in control I fear we are heading for an out vote.[/quote]If changing it from the inside was possible we wouldn''t be where we are now.I think IN will win comfortably Herman, which is unlucky for me as I shall be voting for OUT.Sovereignty is a hard sell because there is no immediate financial gain and most will be voting with their wallets. The sovereignty of Parliament was fought for with blood, it seems many are happy to give it away for cash.I don''t agree with much that Tony Benn said but he hit the nail on the head with this speechhttps://whitewednesday.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/tony-benn-on-democracy-and-the-eu-20th-november-1991/ 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

its not unlucky Ricardo, it will be people''s rational choice, however well informed they are.Whar scares me more is the secrecy and ganging up of lawyers behind the scenes over TTIP, that our elected representatives arenot allowed ton talk or record whatever they have read.Whatever our vote is, in or out, we must keep away from this collective secrecy by multinationals. The game is not to build a stronger Atlantic alliance, it is to keep Russia and China out, to create interest blocks and control taxes, to monopolise public service provision at home, and, as the last instance, become the Ministry of Truth with a brand name.Two things strike you when you walk out of Sao Bento rail sation,. cross the road into the big square, you turn to your right and you see Mc D''s with an imperial eagle above an art deco cafe, now bastardised to serve over sweet/salty foods, right next to it, is an old betting shop/a lottery outlet for the weekly national lottery, a right bestowed to the catholic church since ancient times in Portugal.Above this outlet it says ''Deus de a sorte'' , god brings/is luck. Together with McD''s cafe disembowelling art deco next door it sums up the creek we are paddling on.

[SwindonCanary 455]

[Herman 9,780]

I don''t think that has been agreed or ratified by the EU member states.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Herman "]I don''t think that has been agreed or ratified by the EU member states.[/quote]Have you actually read any of the main newspapers?It hasn''t been ratified yet, but as near as damn it - the EU want Turkey as members, as does Cameron and other conservatives.For Tories to want to remain in the EU and have Turkey as members, you know they''re not thinking of the UK and its people.

[Herman 9,780]

So it hasn''t been agreed then.

[SwindonCanary 455]

So you''re voting to stay in, on the odd chance that it isn''t carried out ? 

[Herman 9,780]

No, I''ll be making my decision using facts. This vote is about the long term future of our country so I''ll avoid scare mongering, lies and general nonsense. Where possible.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Glad to hear it, I''ve done the same thing.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

here is an ex fraud investigator of Scotland Yards view on what is and what is not fact, a very well researched article.http://rowans-blog.blogspot.co.uk/It will be with great thought that I await the day when the UK has to take note of all the refugees it has created and I would urge the authorities to plan NOW for the refugees it will have to take its share of after June.Currently some 20% come from Afghanistan, many are from Syria and Iraq, and Libya is in turmoil as well, all war zones we were involved in.I have no vote, so make it happen please.

[whoareyou? 0]

What so many don''t understand is that regardless of voting OUT, very little can or will change as regards immigration.

If we want free access to the EU market, we will have to allow free movement of EU citizens within the UK just as Switzerland had to agree to.

Its easier for non-EU citizens to apply for refugee status in the UK than it is in other EU countries which has nothing to do with EU law and everything to do with current UK law of which the EU has no say. So why would voting Out change anything?

[SwindonCanary 455]

Remember that ALL refugees must claim refugee statue from the first country visited. Very unlikely it''s gonna be the UK.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

If the vote is pro EU, you will still have to take account, take your share, opting out of a Schengen which is dead from the neck down, which has been negated by the refugee dystopia, brought about by our military campaigns abroad, the chaos we caused to people now fleeing to the EU, wanting a life somewhere safer, well educated people, willing to work.So why would a European partner fail to take their fair share? when they were partially responsible for their plight. Just live with it.

[Badger 2,406]

Definitely IN. The case for leaving resembles the Emperors New Clothes. However, to be honest even if it didn''t I would want to remain part of it - I am instinctively "internationalist" as a left-wing "do-gooder."

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user=" Badger"]Definitely IN. The case for leaving resembles the Emperors New Clothes. However, to be honest even if it didn''t I would want to remain part of it - I am instinctively "internationalist" as a left-wing "do-gooder."[/quote][:O]I would never have guessed[;)][:D][:D]

[paul moy 235]

''IN'' means the UK will be an islamic state barring civil war within a few decades as Turkey and those Syrian/Libyan etc refugees/economic migrants get freedom of movement and muslims become in the majority in the UK through their higher birth-rate. We already have 85 sharia courts here, halal meat, polygamous marriage, female genital mutilation, segregation of the sexes, and of course a growing jihadi base and no-go areas thanks to politicians ignorance in promoting multi-culturalism and faith schools. Good luck to you that vote ''IN'' !!

''OUT'' would mean we can select who we allow in according to our economic need using a points-based visa system, and dump the Human Rights Act that puts criminals rights above the honest law-abiding majority.

Commonsense means vote out unless you want to risk your kids having to live under barbaric 8th century rules within a few decades.

[Herman 9,780]

Still reading the Daily Mail I see Paul.

Anyway, vote IN as it will really annoy the French.

[Herman 9,780]

Voting OUT will save our NHS apparently?!Who will save it from the tory government/media privateers??????

[paul moy 235]

Indeed Herman, the money saved on membership fees etc will be spent on the NHS in this country rather than supporting the poorer states.

Voting OUT would also mean fewer migrants burdening the NHS, schools, housing, courts, benefit system or pushing down wages. All good IMO.

[Herman 9,780]

Have you done any research on the pros and cons, or are you just repeating what you have read on Facebook?

[paul moy 235]

Research is not necessary for me Herman as I have experienced the downsides of the EU for decades. People with a wealth of experience like myself will be voting OUT unless they are crazy and want to keep throwing our money down a bottomless pit.

Did you know for instance that people who work for the EU in Frankfurt pay NO tax on their salaries? The EU is self-serving, non-democratic and corrupt.

[MooreMarriot 310]

"...Did you know for instance that people who work for the EU in Frankfurt pay NO tax on their salaries?..."

Quote:

"..The salary of  a European civil servant is not subject to national income tax. Instead, salaries paid by the Commission to its officials are directly subject to a Community tax which is paid directly back into the EU''s budget. This tax is levied progressively at a rate of between 8% and 45% of the taxable portion of your salary.." . 

So out supporter found to be talking complete cobblers again shock horror. 

[paul moy 235]

Wrong MooreMarriot, I worked in Frankfurt and met a lady there in Sachsenhausen who suggested I apply for a job at the EU offices there as a major benefit was no income tax. This was 2004.

Will all the current uproar about tax avoidance the EU are the biggest hypocrites.

[ricardo 7,395]

The EU is a sinking ship. I''d rather we had our own lifeboat than hope the French and Germans might pull us into one of theirs.