Less than 100 days to go

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

for Scotland to vote for Independence. Up to now the Government has scared scottish voters, but the facts on the ground are different.Scotland is in the EU already, it is not threatening to come out, its Cameron who is throwing his toys out of the pram because he can''t get his way over Junckers appointment. That he threatens to pull the UK out of the EU, long before we are being asked is unfortunate, because I believe that the English will vote for the buttered side of the toast, not some maybe''s and could be''s. He says he wants reform thats why he opposes Juncker, but his only reform is pulling us out of the existing working time directive and after leaving the EPP to sit next to Yobbik and Le Pens lot, he has to realise that his kind of reform will end up with the hollow sound of hobnail boots. What a useless brat spat, if he believes that Merkel will risk her grand coalition for his fancy dreams, he''s got another thing coming.Back to SAcotland and the manipulation by the no borders/BBC campaign, virutually one and the same. Cameron has pressured 34 nations into opposing Independence, Obama''s latest missive of ''deep interest'' last weekend came after a question the BBC came up with prompted him into making this statement.Should Scotland become Independent we can finally readdress this old and smelly politicaql system here in England, the last to be denied change.http://www.weourselves.com/herald-blows-lid-clean-off-camerons-covert-operations/

[Joanna Grey 0]

It''s a Scottish thing.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

A thought provoking article here, very long JG, you might not want to bother.The comments below speak volumes, i.e. the Scots are not believeing a thing Cameron utters.http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/06/the-scottish-political-singula.html

[Joanna Grey 0]

No one believes a word Cameron says.

The Scottish thing, it''s up to them.

[Herman 9,779]

The Scots will never have a Tory government again if they vote for independence. Reason enough to vote yes I should think.

[Joanna Grey 0]

But the HOC will lose 41 Labour MPs, 11 LibDems and only 1 Tory.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="Joanna Grey"]But the HOC will lose 41 Labour MPs, 11 LibDems and only 1 Tory.[/quote]

And the English will be free tyo make their own decisions, for the first time. Wales,Northern Ireland and Scotland will then have their own Parliaments making decisiuons far more fairer (PR) than the English.I assume that Scotland will stay in Europe, keep the pound, for now, and that it will flourish.

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

If they vote for independance will all the jocks living in England go home ? [:)]

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="FenwayFrank"]If they vote for independance will all the jocks living in England go home ? [:)][/quote]

Yes its all about going home isn''t it. This is how the Scotsman''s portraits Camerons splendid isolationism today,http://www.scotsman.com/webimage/1.3458593.1403812990!/image/2085769402.jpg_gen/derivatives/articleImgDeriv_628px/2085769402.jpgand this is our very own Independent on its way to tabloid status, a marked difference. Whilst the Scotsman makes a point in a more demure fashion, the Independent is pulling out all the stops, bar adding Churchillian quotes of fighting urchins on the beaches.http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9567047.ece/alternates/w1024/daily-cartoon-20140627.jpgIf Cameron only so much thinks of leaving the EU, he will have more than just the City pushing him, he will have multinationals and Chinese investors looking for another EU country as a point of entrance to the EU''s markets, his whole argument has been disingenous.

[Joanna Grey 0]

I think someone is worried that he may get deported.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="Joanna Grey"]I think someone is worried that he may get deported.[/quote]

who would that be then JG? Are you not worried that Scotlands common border with England will let in more immigrants when they are Independent, the latest scare which is backfiring? An Independent Scotland can make its own decisions on immigration and they can choose whether they want educated employees, hurray ''enries, or subbing layabouts who can''t be bothered to educate themselves, they are free of English guidance on that matter.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="nevermind"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]I think someone is worried that he may get deported.[/quote]

who would that be then JG? Are you not worried that Scotlands common border with England will let in more immigrants when they are Independent, the latest scare which is backfiring? An Independent Scotland can make its own decisions on immigration and they can choose whether they want educated employees, hurray ''enries, or subbing layabouts who can''t be bothered to educate themselves, they are free of English guidance on that matter.

[/quote]If the Scots want to go then it''s entirely up to them but at least they are being asked to make a decision on what they want. This is something we are unlikely to get over Europe.Having said that I confidently predict that Scots will vote No by about 55% to 45%. Unfortunately this sort of result is going to leave a legacy of bitterness in Scotland and no doubt the blame will fall upon the English.

[Badger 2,406]

Scots have every right to vote for Independence if they want it. Like NM, I am sure that they would thrive and if England left the EU whilst Scotland stayed in, there could be a transfer of jobs northwards. Thinking about it, this might not be too bad a thing for England in the long run... Who knows? Agree with most on this thread - it seems to me an indefensible position to deny people the chance of a vote on EU membership after 40 years.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

looks like the people in Scotland have realised how a biased, pro establishment BBC has been covering the campaign. They will want change and they should have change. Once they achieve it there ''s nothing holding us back here in England, the last bastion against change.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hk1o2Apa_Q#t=130I predict a Yes campaign win but shan''t copy the mainstream prediction machines. The Yes campaign will get a lot opf first time voters.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

You have to look at the referendum in a clam and objective way. Scotland will be free to choose what their direction, their Government and foreign policy will be.This is a refreshing view of independence and all this chat about currencies talking about value,etc. when in reality we are living on quantitative easing is somewhat far fetched. Scotland is in the EU and as that will be able to choose the Euro if it so wishes, and once Cameron takes Britain out of the EU, so he says, many multinationals will not wait to see what happens, but relocate to a coun try that guarantees their access to a very lucrative EU market.http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/world/9026-scotland-freedom-priceless.html

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="nevermind"]You have to look at the referendum in a clam and objective way. Scotland will be free to choose what their direction, their Government and foreign policy will be.This is a refreshing view of independence and all this chat about currencies talking about value,etc. when in reality we are living on quantitative easing is somewhat far fetched. Scotland is in the EU and as that will be able to choose the Euro if it so wishes, and once Cameron takes Britain out of the EU, so he says, many multinationals will not wait to see what happens, but relocate to a coun try that guarantees their access to a very lucrative EU market.http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/world/9026-scotland-freedom-priceless.html[/quote]Er no. If Scotland votes to leave the UK it will have to reapply to to join the EU and it is by no means a given that they would be accepted. It also means that if and when they are accepted they would have to join the Euro currency area as well.There are arguments for and against EU membership but all the reasons for multinationals locating in this country will still remain whether we leave or remain. We buy far more from the EU than we sell and they are not going to cut their noses off to spit their faces.In any event Scotland is not going to vote to leave the UK. It was always unlikely and becomes ever more so by the day.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

. Hi Ricardo. So when the EU''s president Junckers feels sympathetic to Scottish Independence moves, let me remind you that other EU regions such a Slovakia did not have to reapply, you are saying that they have to re-apply because our papers say so, or british politicians who are running scared and are now getting negative have used it to bamboozzle the scottish nation with.Whatever process will apply for Scotland, and I don''t think that british politicians and rightwing enthusiasts who want to leave the EU will have much say in this, cause all they want is out,  can''t be much more as going though the motions, because SCOTLAND IS ALREADY IN THE EU,it has never left it or has made much noises as to leaving it.http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEEQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cityam.com%2F1405873685%2Fscottish-independence-commission-declines-comment-reports-juncker-would-be-sympathetic&ei=c8TtU8KdI4_n7AaFmYHgCg&usg=AFQjCNFLMyBx9fk_dfJq5M_VtqGTnnvX0w

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="nevermind"]. Hi Ricardo. So when the EU''s president Junckers feels sympathetic to Scottish Independence moves, let me remind you that other EU regions such a Slovakia did not have to reapply, you are saying that they have to re-apply because our papers say so, or british politicians who are running scared and are now getting negative have used it to bamboozzle the scottish nation with.Whatever process will apply for Scotland, and I don''t think that british politicians and rightwing enthusiasts who want to leave the EU will have much say in this, cause all they want is out,  can''t be much more as going though the motions, because SCOTLAND IS ALREADY IN THE EU,it has never left it or has made much noises as to leaving it.http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEEQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cityam.com%2F1405873685%2Fscottish-independence-commission-declines-comment-reports-juncker-would-be-sympathetic&ei=c8TtU8KdI4_n7AaFmYHgCg&usg=AFQjCNFLMyBx9fk_dfJq5M_VtqGTnnvX0w[/quote]Scotland is part of the UK and the UK is a treaty member of the EU. If Scotland leaves the UK it leaves the EU and will have to seek re-admittance.Purely hypothetical of course because Scotland won''t vote to leave but they would need the approval of all 28 members in order to rejoin. Here I can see several problems, not least with the RUK which will have little reason to be very helpful to the Scots in any negotiations.

[JB 0]

What people tend to forget is that Salmon is a devotee of international socialism, nutcase views that will destroy a nations finances, not if, will.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Ricardo, Scotland was a founding member of the Commonwealth and will stay in the commonwealth. Whjat Juncker was sayin is that it does not need re-applying as it is regional part of the EU, you have to get away from the nationalist thinking here, its EU regulations, not UK considerations, how ever favourable they might sound which will count with other commissioners.Would it be in the interest to Commissioners stop a thriving Hebredian/Orkney economy to have its trade shut off its EU market ? for petty buerocratic reasons pulled out of the drawer by some desperate UK politicians?I use the term desperate,  because it shiones out of every pore, negativity reporting and demoralising voters is the only resolve of the NO campaign and when this establishment political system and its vested interest politicians feel the need to fax 35 embassies aroudn the world to encourage their heads of state to speak out against Independence, the desperation has become rampant. This from Ms. Gillard on her mysoginist collegue who had to speak up yesterday.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihd7ofrwQX0#t=405Independence will see an end to excessive debt charges by the Government and it will bring a flurry of business that is trying to reposition itself visavis a lucrative EU market, companies currently situated in Britain and Ireland, I assume the threat of leaving the EU has excercised your attention, so whatever the new currency is going to be, pegged at the pound, the Euro or whatever, will make Scotland its own arbitor.http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/westminster-charges-scotland-billions-of-pounds-in-service-costs/What exercises my mind is the aftermath. What will Scottish Independence do to the tribalism of unionist/orange supporters? will there be flags allowed at football games? will they accept the change and work within it for its success? Or will they kick, scream and throw their Buckfast out of the pram, against the majority?what would the Independet campaign do if they loose by a smidgeon, after all this is an idea that has its day and which will not leave the minds of those who support such drang to freedom. will they come back in ten years time?

[JB 0]

At an SNP conference a couple of years ago a man at the podium said that he welcomed unlimited immigration into Scotland and would like to see said country the melting pot of Europe , sitting next to him and nodding was Mr Salmon. Yesterday I caught the tale end of an interview with an SNP official {I did not catch his name} who said that independence would ensure young people in Scotland employment, how does mass immigration and full employment for Scotland`s younger generation go together?

[SHRIMPER 328]

What would Mr SALMOND say though?[;)]

[JB 0]

Well done shrimps, you spotted the deliberate mistake. On the subject of mini crustaceans I have not had said seafood since a boy at Sarfend.

[hexem 0]

Ouch.. Lobster claws @ first light.hex

[JB 0]

Lobster claws @ first light? Take no notice of hexem, any bloke who uses the word `ameliorate` is obviously too posh for their own good, cellos @ tiffin anyone?

Ps, bring your own volteral.

[Shyster 0]

Christ on moving boards in the house of fun, did anyone see that crap for a debate last night?!

I so want the whinging Jocks to leave - It''d mean no Labour Government for approx. 25 years and all that money that goes their way from England - we could do with the approximate six billion to pay off our debts.

We could also bring the shipbuilding back to Portsmouth and Devonport.

If they want to keep the Pound, in the same way Montenegro uses the Euro, or Bosnia (amazingly) the Deutschmark in all but name, let them - they will be of about the same importance internationally. lol.

I want Jock to pay for his own porridge and within a couple of years Mr Salmond will be touting his tartan begging bowl to the IMF and EU looking for the continual handouts of the Barnet formula - I doubt he will find a receptive audience mind.

The chorus from Scotland will be "We didna ken, let us back" to which England will reply "Aye, well ye ken the noo".

Dree yer ain wierd Alex.

[SHRIMPER 328]

I for one would like to see the old "sweaty socks" stay within the union.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="SHRIMPER"]I for one would like to see the old "sweaty socks" stay within the union. [/quote]

Good to see that some actually want to debate this story, seemingly not carried by our regional media. I''m all for an Independent Scotland should they so want it. They will have a currency whatever it will be and they will still be in the EU. I only watched very little of the two debates but thought that the second one was clearly carried by Salmond, despite the argy bargy.An Independent Scotland leaving a quantitative eased Britain that might shoot itself in the foot and leave the EU, will be in a better position than a Britain, which will have to use lots of our taxes to re- establish a  brand new, expensive Trident grave yard here in Devon, or leave it out alltogether.It will highlight the only unreformed part of what is called a union, the lack of a truly British Parliament. It will also highlight the issue thatn has been dropped by many previous Governments, i.e. the reform and reduction in members in both houses, long overdue.Further, it will onle be Britain that retains its old, unrepresentative and unfair voting system, so all those thinking that we are controlled by the EU can then stand up and speak out for England and democracy here, I don''t think that the EU would want to interfere with moves to reform the voting system, indeed they would most likely urge the Government to give us a choice in the say, not be confronted with one option only, i.e the wort possible option our politicians grudgingly grant us to vote on.So, its all good news for us all, not just for Scotland, despite the establishments ire, wanting to keep us all in splendid isolation.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

this is what der Spiegel says about the vote in Scotlands referendum, at least they get the guist of Scotlands urge for Independence.http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/scotland-divided-ahead-of-approaching-independence-referendum-a-988064.html

[JB 0]

 

Nevermind, independence and the EU do not go together and never will. Whilst in some ways I have no

interest in the vote I would like the smile wiped off of Salmond`s mug, he is a Marxist and should say so

not hide behind the skirt of nationalism.