Aggy

So your conclusions on whether the Notting Hill and Manchester christmas market deaths were related to the events are your judgments. Not facts, as you tried to make out previously. There was a very educational post from a poster called Barbe Bleu yesterday who explained in very simplistic terms the difference between facts and judgments. Worth a read. As to your first para, I suspect nobody cares what you think is legitimate or distasteful. In the same way nobody cared when you announced on another thread that you had decided it had ceased to be of use and should be deleted.

Yes, you keep saying you don’t want to do all these things I always do, presumably because they are below a poster of your calibre, but then proceed to do them anyway. Out of interest, how did you come to the conclusion that this death - outside of the Notting Hill catchment area - might be related to the carnival because you can’t create a start and end zone, but that the death at Manchester Christmas markets in 2021 - where a passer by got caught up in a large violent disturbance outside the Printworks, about a 30 second walk from the nearest Christmas market stand, on the same day the market stands were forced by police to stop serving alcohol early because of widespread violence and disturbances at the Christmas markets - definitely wasn’t related to the Christmas markets as you claimed above? Could you provide a mildly patronising footballing analogy for your Christmas markets conclusion to help me understand?

Doubt it. Facts and data are secondary to misinformed opinions, apparently.

I didn’t spend long in Vilnius - one night out and a hungover drive the following day. Slightly underwhelmed by Trakai. Kaunas quite nice to potter around. The curonian spit/Nida definitely worth a visit.

I think it was on talksport this weekend that somebody made a point about kompany getting the Bayern job…. If you’re a young ambitious manager, playing Big Sam style hoofball isn’t going to get you a top job, even if you keep your side up. If you fail playing good football, implementing a system but with players who just aren’t good enough, then a bigger club might take a punt that your style will work with their better players.

I don’t really see that it is logical to think that. We’ve already been told that creamfields has had more deaths than Notting Hill carnival in recent years. And we’ve seen the number of sexual assaults at places like Leeds festival. There are more arrests proportionately per attendee at Leeds festival, virtually the same as at reading festival. You’d think it would be easier to stop knives getting in if it was a gated out of town event, but then you’d think it would be easier to stop drugs getting in too and that doesn’t seem to be the case. Most of the security advantages you could get out of town could as easily be done in town as well. Block roads so there are a limited number of ways in, have outposts checking bags etc as people go in, where you can turn people away if it gets to a certain capacity. Either for the whole area, or have zones where that happens. That happens at lots of city centre events already for things like Christmas markets.

But none of the stats show that moving out of town make an event safer? Surely any decision about relocation needs to be based on something a bit more than a few people on a message board feel like it should be moved.

The point wasn’t so much that Christmas markets are unsafe as it was that there is some level of (in some instances quite serious) criminality at much smaller city centre events - scale that up to London and it’s not really that much of a surprise. As my earlier post, I just looked at the first few things on google and don’t have the stats re the Christmas markets. (The only reason I initially raised it was when asking for stats from comparative city centre events, which seemingly nobody demanding it move out of town / be cancelled actually has). If we are taking the argument that big city centre events such as Christmas markets are safe in every other city, then you’d have to think the issue at Notting Hill is predominantly about organisation and policing/security. If we’re saying events like Christmas markets in other city centres are safer than out of town festivals rife with drug overdoses and sexual assault/rape (and looking at the stats Herman posted, there is more crime per attendee at various out of town music festivals than Notting Hill carnival), what evidence is there that moving Notting Hill out of town would make it safer?

I thought that’s what you were already doing given your lack of reply on the nhs immigration points.

I could have believed he didn’t know much about the condition issues as they are something the agents probably do deal with (although given his previous comments about rogue landlords etc you’d think he might make a point of checking in on his own portfolio..) But blaming the agent for your properties not having the licences required under a scheme you implemented is … pushing it! Would imagine Labour won’t stand for anything that looks even remotely “sleazy”.

It wasn’t a sarcastic reply. It was a reply pointing out your statement that all other festivals are out of town doesn’t take into account the ones which aren’t - for instance, the annual Christmas markets that take place in the centre of most cities and large towns in the country. Posts above already about Manchester Christmas market - two deaths from stabbings in 2021, in 2022 there were two stabbings plus an armed siege plus armed police called to a woman mugged at knifepoint plus mass brawls, 2023 two stabbings. All in one city much smaller than London. Birmingham it looks similar. The out of town music festivals hardly seem massively safe either. Someone earlier pointed out creamfields has had more deaths than Notting Hill in recent years - “self inflicted” and worth ignoring therefore according to some on here because they were drug overdoses. Hardly seems the sort of place you’d feel safe taking your kids though. We’ve also had stats posted on here about rape and sexual assault at various music festivals (and from my own personal experience there is a lot of theft at these festivals with lots of tents left empty for most of the day…) So yes, I’d agree there is a balance to be had with all of them. Am I okay to point that out to the posters at the start of the thread who were calling for Notting Hill to be closed down and who were dismissing crime at other festivals, or is there a formal process for getting the BB stamp of approval before hand?

This is a poor attempt at gaslighting. I haven’t done any such thing. I’ve engaged you twice on two different threads about your points on immigration affecting the nhs without calling you racist or resorting to “shut your trap”. Both times you’ve failed to answer the points I’ve made, changed the subject/ignored them, and then later whinged about people not engaging with you. As for your second paragraph, that is interesting. If you don’t actually know the answer, and don’t actually have the stats to hand, what was your previous claim to that effect based on? Were you making it up?

Err ok. How would you like me to reword the very straight forward question so it meets your requirements?

Out of town like city centre Christmas markets?

Yeah, “shut your trap” suggests you’re open to serious discussion. I’ve made no accusations, just pointed out that you whinge about people dismissing you as a racist without engaging in discussion, and then play silly games like “let’s stay on topic” when they do engage and you don’t have answers. What is clear is that you are desperate to stop immigration even if it means the collapse of the nhs and/or other sectors, massive hikes in income tax, and more elderly British people dying because they can’t receive timely treatment. Which imo is… strange. As for Notting Hill carnival, if more policing is required then fair enough. Do you have figures on crime rates at comparative “events” like Christmas markets in big cities? A year or two ago Manchester had two men stabbed to death and mass brawls at the Christmas markets, and a quick google suggests the same at the winter wonderland in London and birmingham Christmas markets, for instance.

Tiresome. You were happy to change the topic and post your thoughts on the nhs when you thought you had a point. When then asked to answer something you can’t, this is what we get. Are all racists wind up merchants or just the ones on this message board?

Classic. We did discuss it on another thread, you didn’t have any answers then either. As for your last sentence, the implication was that you were racist, not that there aren’t any brown British doctors. If you’re interested in skin colour and what makes someone British though, perhaps you could nudge your mate LYB to come back to me on my queries regarding his definition of multiculturalism. He seemed to get himself a bit tangled about skin colour there and then aborted quickly rather than engage in discussion. Seems a bit of a pattern when the racists get stuck….

Ah so your solution is to just ignore over half of the job roles we’d need to fill every single year. Presumably you’ll be asking the nurses to repair the leaking roofs and balance the books? Or we are just going to see the collapse of other industries as we “source” them for the nhs. Anyway, who needs the nhs. At least everyone who can’t afford private insurance will be able to die young without a bunch of foreigners next door. Maybe then we can start burning people at the stake again and switch out those naff nissans for British bred horses with carts as well. edit: Ps given how easy you think it is to source all these people from outside of the nhs, what’s the reason for the 130,000 job vacancies the nhs can’t fill? Is this where you’re going to tell me we should raise nhs salaries and cost the tax payer billions just so you don’t have to see a brown doctor?

How about dealing with the point I made though - 75,000 immigrants come into the nhs every year. There are 700,000 people aged 18 in the uk currently. So if you were to stop immigration, you’d need an additional 1/10 children from every school year to go into the nhs, on top of those that already join the nhs. So maybe 12-13 percent of every single school year would have to join the nhs moving forward just to keep the staffing levels stable without immigrants. For context, the nhs currently employs about 2 percent of the population. And that’s before we consider that even with immigration there are 130,000 vacancies within the nhs that can’t currently be filled, we’ve got significant backlogs and staffing issues. And it’s not taking into account that the average population keeps getting older - so we’re going to keep needing more and more staff to look after the aging population. And that’s before we even consider social care outside of the nhs. And it’s before your previous statement that you’d happily hike up the taxes to cover incentives. Absolutely bonkers to keep persisting with this idea we can just incentivise more uk citizens to join the nhs and do away with immigrants without causing the collapse of society. Even more bonkers to think massive tax hikes and the collapse of other industries or the death of millions because of under staffing is worth it just to keep those nasty foreigners out. As for your stupid Notting Hill question, let me ask you a stupid question back. There were over 100 reported sexual offences - including 16 rapes - in five years at Leeds festival between 2018 and 2023. If I’m to act dumb like you seem to like doing, am I to assume that because you aren’t calling for Leeds festival to be cancelled you are a supporter of rape and sexual assault?

A shame we haven’t got to the stage where racists crying about nobody having a sensible discussion but then failing to actually engage in said discussion because they haven’t got any non-racist answers doesn’t work anymore. Still waiting on LYB to answer my queries re his ridiculous comments about multiculturalism and you twice ignored my points about the nhs when trying to have a proper discussion about immigration. When are you both going to pack up the charade?

Saw this. I’ve been pi55ed off when opponents bring in lads from the teams above for crunch games (186 off 120 in this one!) but to then spite them with 0 from 137 is top level. Edges one, think you’ve got him, sneaks through the slips, and then turns down the single just to wind you up even more. Brilliant.

Can only remember us from the late 90s - we’ve had some pretty good attacking players since then who might dislodge some of that 08 list, but there aren’t many defensive players who would… From players I’ve seen it would be Green, Aarons, Mackay, Klose, Drury, Tettey, Buendia, Hoolahan, Hucks, Pukki, Holt in a 4132. Based on reputation though and looking at the 08 list, Buendia probably gets in above Eadie, and Pukki or Holt above Roberts.

Yeah LYB said the same thing.

There is literally no point. He just copies stats from the internet and can’t engage brain. Last two times I tried to tie him down to doing so he said he didn’t actually have any individual thoughts on what to do about the issues he kept copying stats from the internet about, and the second time he just ignored the questions. Just a racist wind up merchant.

Starmer made him say that though.