megson

I don’t think anyone is saying any fans done anything on purpose. The point is managers play mind games, how many times have we heard that player X (i.e. Hucks at the minute) won’t be playing only to turn up at 3:00 pm sat to find said player in the starting 11?   Opposition manager is (possibly) caught off guard and their game plan goes out the window.   If fans are up their the day before the game they’ll see the first 11 for the game practicing against the rest of the squad, that’s what all teams do the day before, so its not hard to spot what the first 11 will be.   Any fan would then naturally tell their mates, and these days, post that on the net.   I highly doubt other clubs are scouring these sites before games, however opposition fans most certainly will be, looking for team news etc. That info is picked up by them, and taken back to their websites. From there its noticed by the local media maybe and gets in the press, or it gets posted on an official board, which may be moderated, and then maybe passed to the manager as info he may like to have……   Also it keeps the training more professional. If fans are there then a certain level of behaviour is expected, the players and managers cannot relax as much. Behind closed doors they can be a lot more, er, ‘open and honest’ with each other in a true football style!

[quote user="ricky knight"][quote user="megson"] I really don''t get this thread, but I suppose it sums up many parts of this board at the minute. For the 1st 45 we played well, for the second we were awful against a VERY poor side. That shouldn''t be ignored or swept under the carpet and Grant is right to make a lot of it. Why are we arguing amongst ourselves because of it? If we play like that against sides from our league we''ll get battered. Probably the best result we could get though, we had 45 minutes to get some confidence score some goals, then 45 minutes to bring us back to earth and make sure no one gets carried away before saturday. There were good signs, but there is still a LOT of room for improvement. However a clean sheet at preston and 5 in 30 minutes tuesday shows we are moving in the right direction, the second half just proves the job is far from done, which I feel is Grant''s point. He''s making sure no one gets complacent. [/quote]   Exactly my point, better put, lol, so why am i getting slagged to death even Grant agrees with the point of view on the 2nd half. [/quote] I think we tend to get a bit polarised in our view points on here and can attack or defend without really thinking about the context! Tends to be very little middle ground around, and this performance fell smack in the middle of that middle ground! I''m happy with what he said, and both Russell and Fozzy have come out in agreement now too!  

I really don''t get this thread, but I suppose it sums up many parts of this board at the minute. For the 1st 45 we played well, for the second we were awful against a VERY poor side. That shouldn''t be ignored or swept under the carpet and Grant is right to make a lot of it. Why are we arguing amongst ourselves because of it? If we play like that against sides from our league we''ll get battered. Probably the best result we could get though, we had 45 minutes to get some confidence score some goals, then 45 minutes to bring us back to earth and make sure no one gets carried away before saturday. There were good signs, but there is still a LOT of room for improvement. However a clean sheet at preston and 5 in 30 minutes tuesday shows we are moving in the right direction, the second half just proves the job is far from done, which I feel is Grant''s point. He''s making sure no one gets complacent.

Bloody hell bly ;-) Agreed though. I give little weight to previews where are chances are summed up in two lines. He has a point with the lose of Earnie of course, but there''s been more to our close season than that. If he just mentioned the other signings made I''d give some credibility to the comments, even if his comments were negative. Same with most championship reviews, they pick out a few teams to do some indepth stuff on, then the rest of us get a line or two that looks like it was written 5 minutes before the print deadline! For me I feel a top half finish is on, probably top ten. If we can keep in touch over the first half of the season (I think we may start a bit slow with such a new team) there''s always a chance of a late run to the playoffs.  

lol

[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="oldimpsfan"] There seem to me to be some on here who are not true supporters of the club they purport to support.  I am 65 and a supporter of Lincoln City (please laugh) and have been a season ticket holder since 1965.  I cannot travel that far today but I still have a season ticket. When the club (founded 1884) faced obliteration/bankruptcy I was one of a large number who transferred money from my real bank account to their real bank account as a result of which the...errr....Mighty Imps are still in League Division II. Perhaps Smudger & Co could try doing the same to enable Mr Grant to have more spending power?   Just put real hands in real pockets and cough up with real money outside the season ticket? It is entirely possible - despite the excitement of a Lincoln City 606 poster WE''VE SIGNED A PLAYER! - that we could drop to the Conference. If so, I will be sad but still a supporter. You have real money in our terms.  How luck you are..................... [/quote] Infighting among Norwich fans is a slightly separate issue.  There are genuine areas of disagreement, but an attitude of division and conflict about anything and everything has unfortunately become part of the culture at Carrow Road.  The origins of this are very recent but quite complex.  My own take on it is that after the Robert Chase trauma of the mid-90s we were far too willing to believe that the new board could do no wrong, and the Delia Smith celebrity factor was used to exploit our vulnerability for all it was worth.  Therefore when this facade began to crack in 2005 the manager (Nigel Worthington) was scapegoated to the most irrational extreme.  The board proved themselves gutless and let it run on and on.  It got very poisonous indeed, culminating in a sizeable minority cheering on away teams when they came to Carrow Road.  Like you I''m a longstanding fan and there are some things you just don''t do, no matter how bad the situation is.  An invisible line was crossed and for me supporting Norwich City will never be the same again.  [/quote] Damn good summary. I''m not sure about being exploited by the celebrity factor (but then I''m hardly likely to admit it am i?!) but replacing Chase had become such a ''Holy Grail'' that whoever came is was going to seem so much better in comparison. NW was scapegoated, tis a shame so few can remember the good times, and what a breath of fresh air he was after the debacle of Hamilton. He came in, wielded hisaxe, bought well (and cheaply!) and managed to gel a group of players to get to Cardiff and lay the platform for a return to the premisership. Its been interesting thinking about this, bought up the older failings such as the sacking of Walker, the Hamilton fiasco and the ill advised criticism of the fans when he eventually walked. I do still believe the appointment of Rioch was a good one, and maintain but for the injury to Bellamy we would of made the top 6 that season. We may not have gone up, but again a foundation would of been laaid. Having said that NW was out of his depth in the prem and the board did a decent job of backing him. Not great but they made funds available, and continued to. Without wishing to argue the sums (lets face it its been done and we''ll be here all day) they got that side right, but I have to agree with your comments on his sacking. As I was so fond of saying at the time they let a hard decision become easy. Once that happens its too late. On a side note, I doubt i''ll ever be as upset to see a manager i wanted replacing being replaced as I was when listening to him talk via phone to the sky sports news presenters that day. What ever else NW did he was a damn fine bloke. Carra isn''t hte best of places to be some days and I fear that will continue. Its a shame if it does because PG could do with the kind of support NW (note, i''m too lazy to write full names when initials will do) had to start with. For me he''s done a very similar exercise to what NW did after Hamilton and a concerted attempt to back him to the hilt, at least till Nov would do nothing but benefit all of us. Not going to happen though for the reasons you give above, which saddens me. Nice to be taken back and reminded of things forgotten from time time, helps maintain the balanced view that the net might not always see.

[quote user="Mello Yello"] The ''true fact'' is, you don''t know the true facts and neither do I - and it just annoys me that there are those who don''t know the true facts - but are quick to pass judgement and concur with the manager and his verbal annoyance on a player - who''s not yet actually made a statement in his defence or an admission of guilt. Only those involved with the situation that''s recently unfolded and reared its ugly head - know the actual circumstances and the truth. If, as allegedly reported, Mr Safri has been rockin'' the ''Carra coracle'' since January of ''this year'' - and he was seriously wanting away from here, being obstinate, unruly and instructing his agent/s to find him a new employer; why has it taken until now, for the manager and the Chief Exec - to suddenly start airing their discontent on the unacceptable behaviour of Mr Safri. It should have been nipped in the bud at the onset of the situation, not "300 strikes and you''re out!" and instead of it building into a crescendo of verbal annoyance and frustration from ''Wee Jock McPlop'' and then ''Darth Donkster''. Why wait till the ''Worst Harm friendly to make an announcement? Maximo Impacto? Maybe Safri, is a spoilt self centered egoist, or just maybe, they wish to alienate him from the fans to soften the blow of his departure. Maybe the manager has an issue with him, a personality clash or doesn''t think that the player''s VFM or an asset, because of his devout religious beliefs and commitment/loyalty to his Country? Two sides to every story........it may come out in the wash or the wensum.....(we might have to wait till PG''s ("My rocky road to be Celtic''s kit-man"), Saf''s ("How to be a successful football agent and be loved by all fans") or Dark Lord Darth Donkster''s, ("Let''s talk about me, me, ME!") have published their autobiography''s). There Meggersun, you''ve had my unhinged thoughts & attention..... [/quote] Thanks Mello, some good stuff in there. I''ll admit to not being in the best of moods that day, and being a little pedantic shall we say! The point I was trying to make is that none of us know hte true facts, even those that may have spoken to the player. Its just as dangerous to assume (and will cause more angst!) that everything a club official says is unture as it is to assume that everything a player says has to be true. I think the timescale will stem from the fact that Saf is clearly a very good player at this level, and one worth making an effort on if its unclear what his intentions are. My suspicion is there is an agent or two with a lot to answer for here. A few converstions of "you might like it there but why don''t I see if I can get you more money somewhere else?" If this is getting back to Grant i must be frustrating, especially if Saf is saying he''s happy to stay. One thing is clear and that is we''ve lost a very good player, and i''m not sure we''ve replaced him, but players do fall out with managers, do need to move on. Happens often at a lot of clubs and doesn''t always indicate a failure on anyones part, just part of the game. Good luck Saf, thanks for the memories.

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="megson"][quote user="Mello Yello"] Where did I say I know best? I said there are 2 sides to every story.....That''s why we have the courts - and a judge & jury listen to the defence and the prosecution. Then they decide whoever''s guilty or not. My opinion pertaining to the subject, is that Safri hasn''t ''yet'', given his side to the story - and I''d prefer to hear his defence or reasons before I pass my comment. [/quote] Here is where you said you know best "Grant''s verbal against Mr Safri, is certainly having the desired effect on those who don''t know the true facts.........." Saf may have a side, and i''d be very interested to hear it. Like it or not though there are agents out there now doing everything they can to get him a move. If he doesn''t want to go he needs to knock that on the head, and since its been going on since Jan its a tricky situation to defend. [/quote] Tootly toot parp parp.........There, I''ll blow your ickle trumpet to celebrate the fact you''re the board''s only ''Carra insider, oracle eye of know it all, see it all, and tell it all how it really is - unique/eunuch poster''. I hope that has the desired effect on you....... [/quote] Lol. Are you going to explain what you meant by "those who don''t know the true facts" though? Cause i''d be interested to hear any other info you have. What do i know? only what''s been in the press, never have and never will profess to be an insider, I''d love to be in these situations though. My point is why should we assume the new manager is lying and the player is (or will) tell the ''truth''.

I think he''s saying they''d love the seats, and could fill them when we are in the prem, or top 6 of the championship. However it''ll cost a packet that they know they either shouldn''t (or couldn''t get away with!) spending on the ground instead of the team. Good point about the time scale though, we''d lose the city stand for half a season at least you''d think which would have another knock on effect to the finances.

[quote user="Cluck "] Safri is a "flair" player being asked to go against his natural style week in week out. I challenge anyone in their workplace (and yes it is a job for Safri) to work at his optimum when being publicly criticised and held back on a regular basis. I''m entirely with SOB as usual on this and once again the club spin is being sucked in rather than waiting for hard evidence from the player himself. I''ve watched Safri many times and he has always looked like a player "out of place". Dare I suggest that he is too good for the Grant style of play where the likes of Hughes and Doherty are the model? If Safri goes then to my mind the "little Norwich" transition is complete. Alongside Huckerby he is the only heavyweight player left on the books....and that is something we should all be very concerned about.... [/quote] WHy is it ''hard evidence'' because the player says it? Are they physically incapable of telling lies? Why is it naturally a ''spin'' or a lie if it comes from Grants mouth? the Guy has done nothing but talk straight since him came here, even to the extent of criticising the support. Believe what you want but a player commited to this club doesn''t miss training to collect an agent, and isn''t late for the photo shoot.

[quote user="Mello Yello"] Where did I say I know best? I said there are 2 sides to every story.....That''s why we have the courts - and a judge & jury listen to the defence and the prosecution. Then they decide whoever''s guilty or not. My opinion pertaining to the subject, is that Safri hasn''t ''yet'', given his side to the story - and I''d prefer to hear his defence or reasons before I pass my comment. [/quote] Here is where you said you know best "Grant''s verbal against Mr Safri, is certainly having the desired effect on those who don''t know the true facts.........." Saf may have a side, and i''d be very interested to hear it. Like it or not though there are agents out there now doing everything they can to get him a move. If he doesn''t want to go he needs to knock that on the head, and since its been going on since Jan its a tricky situation to defend.

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"] I guess he will be off now then, its been coming since the awful Bobinson weas selected ahead of him by Grunt during an 8 match winless run.  A damn shame cos Andy Hooze is STILL getting in the team every week.  And he was awful as usual again last night. Why is it not Donkey or Hooves being removed from the club??  [/quote] Coz they give 100% commitment blah blah blah.... It doesn''t really matter if they are utter c**p does it???? I wasn''t Safri''s biggest fan, but I dare say that the way Grant has treated him has a part to play in why Safri and his agent seem to want out. [/quote] "Since I came here Youssef''s agents have been wanting him away from here. From the second day I came in here, they said they had agreed it with the manager prior. I found out he hadn''t agreed that." If they way Grant treated him on his first day in the job is the reason Saf wants to leave then your point is valid.

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="megson"][quote user="Mello Yello"] Two sides to every story. Grant''s verbal against Mr Safri, is certainly having the desired effect on those who don''t know the true facts.......... Still, it''s only a message board based on opinion.........not fact. Let''s see what Youseff has to say.........Oh, I don''t think he''ll say much, as it''s not his style....... "And Ashton really was injured for the FA cup-tie against ''Worst Harm''........Honest! Grant needs to tread carefully, outbursts can be counter-productive.  [/quote] And I of course do know the full story, and my messageboard opinion is, actually, fact. Unlike you lot. [/quote] You just keep spouting like your namesake.........it suits your character. Oh, and are you ''special'' and privy to all that''s concealed at Carra? [/quote] Are you? My point is that you make out "i know best" then challenge my inside knowledge whilst ridiculing all those that believe Grant. What factual evidence (not ''my opinion is fact'') do you actually have to prove that your ''opinion'' is more factual than anyone elses? You''ve mentioned ''True Facts'' in your OP yet we are still waiting to hear what these are and where they come from.

I think he means Hucks, Lappin, Brellier, Smith, and er hmm Saf? Interesting if he''s included him in that 5, can''t think of anyone else missing though.

[quote user="Mello Yello"] Two sides to every story. Grant''s verbal against Mr Safri, is certainly having the desired effect on those who don''t know the true facts.......... Still, it''s only a message board based on opinion.........not fact. Let''s see what Youseff has to say.........Oh, I don''t think he''ll say much, as it''s not his style....... "And Ashton really was injured for the FA cup-tie against ''Worst Harm''........Honest! Grant needs to tread carefully, outbursts can be counter-productive.  [/quote] And I of course do know the full story, and my messageboard opinion is, actually, fact. Unlike you lot.

LM - First choice Hucks - Injured last night. Second choice Lappin, injured last night. CM First choice pairing - Brellier and Smith. Both Injured last night. Initial back up Russell Been here 2 days, not had a proper pre-season at Stoke''s doing to protect against injuried scuppering a move. Saf would probably have been in there if he was concentrating on us rather than his agent and a move away. There''s the squad. Short term problems except Smith which is a little longer.      

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"] One suspects that there is more than one side to this story. Rather sad to see possibly our best player in this type of imbroglio. But, Peter, is the boss and Safri will have to go. One just hopes that the departure will be quick and clean rather than delayed and rancorous. My abiding memories of Safri will be, firstly, of him stopping Wayne Rooney in his tracks and setting up the counter attack leading to our 2-0 win over Man Utd at Carrow Road and, secondly, his 30 metre rocket against Newcastle that same season. Sadly, one further suspects that there is something in the air these days at Carrow Road that prevents us from understanding how to get the best out of players of the temperament of Bentley, Francis, Etuhu, and Safri. Maybe a few people need to do some soul-searching. OTBC     [/quote] Agree about the memories, never forget them and thanks Saf. Players come, get too settled and need to leave that''s life. Disagree with the final point though as 3 of those players were only a problem for the previous manager and coach. The current guys were getting the best out of Etuhu and wanted to keep him. When a players agent is telling you he wants to leave, and that the previous manager had agreed he could as soon as you arrive, I don''t see what else you can really do.

[quote user="Cluck "] [quote user="SPat"]We now we have it, the 3 billy goats gruff (Smudger, Clunt and Wayne) and the Troll. What a lucky forum we are. Everyone know''s full well what Chase did for this club, he''ll never be back and we can be truly thankful for that regardless of the imerfections of the current board. . [/quote] Well said BlyBly...and it''s these facts that the sheep find so hard to swallow. And as for your painful attempt at humour S''Pratt....be glad that there are just three Billy Goats...because this place is literally littered with little dwarfs like you busily following Delia White down a deep dark hole........ [/quote] Fact''s lol. Did you read the quote from Russell? No thought not. And anyway he''s only a plyers isn''t he? What would he know? CHase nearly killed the academy that he did so well to build up (and yes he DID do well to build it) when he lost control of the finances. It took us years and some very painful cuts untill we could start to rebuild it. Also do me a list of all these gems we had, tell me where they were living when we approached them to join us, then work out how many are within the current 90 minute travel rule.

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"] [quote user="can u sit down please"]u serious?[/quote] Why not? Strip it down to basics. Our problem is too much little norwich and fear of success. Chase stood shoulder to shoulder with the big boys during 10 years of unprecedented success. Don''t you think he''d be useful on the NCFC board? OTBC   [/quote] Seriously, do you actually pay attention to the game anymore? Did you actually READ that article you posted a link to on here anymore? Comparing football now to the era when chase was in charge is, well, moronic to be honest. It is a totally uncomparable situation, and i suspect you are fully aware of that fact, but enjoy your fishing expeditions too much to let that bother you.

Sign. Another pointless thread About an academy that Chase ran into the ground as the club slowly died. Little or no funding of years as we kept the wolves from the door with forced fire sales of players. In a time when clubs could get young lads from wherever they wanted, before the advent of the 90 minute rule. But lets not let facts get in the way of troublemaking eh?

Agree with this, lot more balance than we''ve had for a while, except at CB. Rumours are that someone is coming in to fill that gap this week, if so I''ll be fairly happy with that squad. We''ll considerably more competitive this time out.

Very interesting article, football in this country is in for some interesting years. And for those attempting to comapre Chase with the current board, and argue we should still be able to hit the heights of 3rd in the prem this stat (from that article) says it all: 75,000 - Average annual salary in pounds at the start of the Premier League in 1992. Scott Parker is to earn that amount in a week at West Ham Sad as it may be, but back then we could compete, these days, without an invester of the sort mentioned in this article, we can''t. Football is very much as a cross roads, the days of fans having a real affinity with the clubs at the very top level have long since disappeared over the hill, and will only get further away. Do we want to follow suit, or stay at a level here the guys we watch earn salaries that are way above ours, but at least comprehensible to the average person, where players can mingle in the city with the minimum of hassle, can turn out for their local sides at cricket in the summer? I think we''ll see a lot of changes to our game in our lifetimes.

[quote user="djc"][quote user="crafty canary"] If Doomcaster and the board think our current central defenders are the business then we are stuffed.......[/quote]   (19-July-2007) Dear Mr Doncaster. Statistics and league tables show (and quite obviously) that since promotion to the Premier League, defensively our (defenders) players at the club haven''t been strong enough or indeed good enough. While we have added to the squad in midfield and attacking options I see we have added just one defender player to the squad (possibly replacing two departed right full-backs) when clearly centre half is our largest problem area since the departure of Malky. I appreciate that we have added two much needed goalkeepers of potential to the squad, but supporters are doubting the abilities of Shackell, Docherty and Dublin for the forthcoming campaign based on past season/s. What at the moment is being done to address this situation, as again it concerns me greatly, and I don’t think a clean sheet against either Lowestoft or King''s Lynn really counts as improvement…. I of course recognise that the club will not name specific transfer possibilities, but please, your thoughts on this matter are welcomed. (20-July-2007) my thoughts as follows:   this season we currently have Shackell, Doherty and Dublin as recognised centre-backs, plus of course Matt Halliday who is a first year pro   at right back we have seen the addition of Jon Otsemobor, plus we have Andrew Cave-Brown who is a year older.  Andy Hughes can also play full-back   i am not saying for a moment that Peter is not looking to bolster the back line (although i am sure, defensively, we will be stronger with the addition of Mathew Gilks and David Marshall), but rather that other positions have been his priority to date - partly of course due to other issues, eg the departures of Dickson and Earnie   i am sure that Peter has plans for other areas of the pitch, but i am equally sure you will understand that i cannot go into those publicly   hope the above helps!   OTBC Neil [/quote] DJC, you''ve asked the guy for his thoughts and you''ve got them. He hasn''t said it''s done and dusted and he hasn''t said we''ll with what we''ve got. His told you what he thinks of the defence, and said that he''s not saying Grant isn''t looking to add to that area, its just that he''s been concentrating on other matters to start with. Not really much in his response either way to be honest. Its still wait and see!

If I go tomorrow night i''ll consider an answer for this, but need to see the new guys in a more realistic game before sticking my neck out too much. Keen to see the football tomorrow, loath the thought of sharing carra with lots of arrogant cockeney ...................  

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"] Yes I know football has changed etc etc. [/quote] There is your answer. Comparing the Chase days to know is extremely difficult to do as football hasn''t just changed, its unrecognisable from the game it was, even when we dopped out of the prem. We left hte prem at probalby the single worst time to do it, and it was so clearly coming but nothing was done. Even In January we looked fairly confortable, but anyone watching that team could see we were only going one way. A new manager was needed and some swift investment to keep us there. Neither happened, mainly becuase of the way the club was run which came down to the chairman. Had he swallowed his pride and looked for a manager to manage rather than the easy fix he appointed, and had the finances been better managed (remeber we got £5m for sutton at the start of that season) we would of had cash there to invest in a player or two to bolster the squad and keep us up. Its all a bit hazy memory now as it was so long ago (which also makes this debat difficult) so feel free to correct if i''ve got some facts wrong, but that''s how I see it. I distinctly remember my mate telling me we could still get back into europe if we put a run together, and me replying we were going down at a very early stage.