0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM>  º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM>  º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True

For me an obvious answer to the ''attitude problems'' of some players - put a mic on the ref like they do in rugby. On the commentary there you can actually hear what the ref is saying, and what the players are saying to him. Would players still swear so much if they knew this. And perhaps some of the ref''s decisions would be clearer if we could hear his comments live... As for entertainment, the Prem is starting to go the way of the SPL where you can almost write the final league table at the start of the season. In many ways, I''d rather get relegated and fight for promotion again than be Blackburn and know that if we play turgid football for a year we will finish mid-table and get... another year of turgid football! Better to be a yo-yo club... much more exciting!

Perhaps Worthy feels that Doc is coming into form now, and full fitness. He must be applauded when subs work though, and today it all seemed to work well. ;-)

It was interesting hearing a Palace fan on 606 yesterday saying it was time for Dowie to go... he''s lost the dressing room... they can''t defend, midfield is non-existent... and if it wasn''t for AJ they would be in real trouble. It''s amazing to think that Palace and Norwich are both in very similar positions, and only one point apart in the table now. Soton aren''t that much better off. Question: should Palace sack Dowie? And by the same token, should Norwich sack Worthy? Hey, we could swap managers! For me, this, and today''s result, just underlines how bizarre this whole debate really is... after just 10 games played. 6 points from the last 9... maybe we''re just starting to get into gear....

Really? REALLY? You actually think Worthy would choose not to put out the strongest 11 on purpose, to see if he could lose us the game? And if you think he changes the team on a whim, go talk to the other people who think he never drops players and see if you can reach some agreement ;-)

Gazza, the only qualities I can see you list ahead of saying Fleming doesn''t have any of them are "passion, belief, central position and experience". Which of those things doesn''t Fleming have?Any why have so many people spent the last month bemoaning our defence? I''m not saying we''re perfect, and correct me if I''ve mis-read the table or something, but on the stats we currently have the 13th best defence (conceded 8 in 7 games) but the 20th best attack (scored 6 in 7). Had we scored 2 goals per game we''d be up near the top by now....So to anyone who says ''can''t Worthy see what''s wrong with our defence'' I''d say: er, no, nor can I, it''s the strike force that seems to be under-performing. Witness not getting a hat-full against Plymouth when they really should have done.Last season, I grant you, defence was our problem. But not so far this season. Is Fleming the new Holt, the player everyone loves to demonise? Whyyyyyy?!

Really? REALLY? You actually think Worthy would choose not to put out the strongest 11 on purpose, to see if he could lose us the game? If he does change it, it will be because he thinks he''s putting out a stronger team as a result, or one better suited to this game, not because of any contractual obligation, or favouritism. I mean, how did he get us promoted if he''s that completely lacking in managerial nous? Must have been some sort of miracle!! And if you think he changes the team on a whim, go talk to the other people who think he never drops players and see if you can reach some agreement ;-)

Rich 1. Look back two seasons at the effect Worthy''s use of the loan system in early September had then. I''d say his track record is very good. 2. I suspect clubs generally wait until after the transfer window has closed to see who''s still around before letting players out on loan, hence we''re not the only club making loans now, there are quite a few going on. Hence the timing.

"Johnny Hill is an Ipswich fan".Well, he might be. If true, I think it''s outrageous that he''s posting on here. In fact, he should be taken out and shot right away.

I have to laugh. Not having a dig at individual posters, but when you read across threads and several posters, you rather get an impression of one half saying "we need to sign some more quality NOW" and the other half saying "why has he signed these players... why not play the younger players we have".If he doesn''t do what someone wants, he''s ''lost the plot'' or ''hasn''t got a clue''. One half say ''we need experience'' while the other half say ''we need to bring the youngsters on''.The England cricket team''s success has been based on consistency, picking the same players on the basis that they are good enough, irrespective of their last performance. Sure enough, as a team, they have succeeded. The Aussies are past maters at it.If Worthy sticks with players he''s ''showing favouritism'' or ''can''t see that so-and-so isn''t good enough''. It''s the same with managers. Fans want consistency, but also to chop and change manager as soon as you have a run of bad results.If we get promoted this season, will the people who wanted him out still wish he''d gone after 6 games...?

Much better today. And I felt you could visibly see some of the tension lift after our first goal. Suddenly we were a yard faster to every ball, everyone wanted the ball too. There were still a few dodgy patches but that was nearly back to how we were in the promotion season. We did take our foot off the gas a bit 20 mins from the end, but in truth the game was over by then anyway.And I disagree that it was only because Plymouth were a poor side. True, they were lightweught up front, but they seemed quite up for it. Plus, Crewe were also an average side but we didn''t beat them.Hopefully this will see some of the confidence repaired and we can go on from here.

It is fascinating. I do feel sometimes that we look for Hux too much, when there might be other better options on. Without him today there was no early ball up the left wing and our better passages of play saw us stringing lots of passes together, using both wings and working the ball around well.But then that is the enigma that is Hux, and probably one reason why some managers have struggled with him. At this level he is definately a threat, but we do need to learn to use other options as well.It reminds me of when Iwan was here - we always looked for the early ball up to him. When he went out of the side in the play-off year for a while, it took ages to adapt to passing it up the park, but once we did we were a better side for it.

"Do we have too many premiership players in our squad? should we have signed more championship experianced players" Ahem, cough. I think there are fans about who might argue that the likes of Jarrett and Hughes are examples of the latter rather than the former. ;-)

[quote]I am not frustrated because of expectation, or our poor start to the season. I am frustrated because there are sides to NW''s management that I was annoyed with two/three seasons ago that STILL haven''...[/quote] Aye, but there are sides to my personality that annoy my wife and have done for years, and I STILL haven''t addressed them. Worthy''s tyle is his style. It was good enough to get us promoted which is more than you can say for many other managers. I guess fans will never be united on whether to play stylish or effective football. Unless you are Arsenal or Chelsea you can''t have both at the same time it seems. No, our players aren''t all brilliant. Or more accurately, they aren''t all brilliant all of the time. They have flashes, good spells in games, good games, good seasons sometimes. But I have long believed that the main difference between a good player (in the Championship) and a great player (in the Prem) isn''t their quality per se. Safri can score a goal to rival any of Lampard''s... the difference is almost entirely consistency. You expect Lampard to do it every other game. Safri does it once per season. Similarly, great players are always in space, keep the ball, complete their passes. It''s easy to do... but it''s hard to do it consistently. Anyone who does do it consistently becomes player of the season and is poached by a bigger club. As for their age... well some people say "you never win anything with kids" and other''s say "give the kids a chance". The fact is, whenever the team isn''t winning, people will suggest that those players not playing could make the difference. It''s a straw to cling to. But the manager sees how the players are performing day in and day out. How focussed they are, how fit they are, how in form they are. One man''s dogmatic selections are another''s settled consistent team selections after all....

I think I would agree about Bentley, I''d like to see him back here. But we do know that Worthy carries out his transfer business very discreetly. Very few of his targets are picked up on by the press and he has a history of pulling rabbits out of the hat when we least expect it. Given what he said about Bentley at the start of the summer I would expect him to have enquired about him, so it doesn''t look promising does it? Expect the unexpected and ignore the red top gossip, that''s the moral of Worthy''s reign.

There undoubtedly are midfielders about who are better than what we have. The difficulty is finding one who is all of a) better b) in our price range c) willing to come to Norwich and d) at a club willing to sell him, all at the same time. I bet it''s easy to find someone who ticks 2 or 3 of those boxes, but not all four. i.e. Sidwell may well be a good idea, but unless Reading are willing to sell and he is willing to come, that''s the end of that, however good an idea it might be. If the manager gets it wrong he will be in trouble....

[quote]Norwich have lined up Clinton Morrison as a replacement for outbound Leon McKenzie, who will join Reading as part of the deal that brings Steve Sidwell to Norwich. This seems to be quite a logical ...[/quote] Hmm Morrison is going to Palace. End of. What has Fleming done so wrong? Conceded less than 1 goal per game on average? Hardly a poor defence if they keep that up between them. Shacks and Flem have both given away penalties in the last week remember!

Somebody close that bloomin'' window! Really, the sooner the transfer window closes the better, then we can all settle down and enjoy what unfolds. At least until Christmas!

The team didn''t play that well. Eventually they managed a goal at the death and scraped home 1-0 winners. It was the first away win of the season against a tricky team. Some have questioned the quality (and value for money) of the summer signings and there is talk of unrest amongst some of the players. Despite previous successes, some people are questioning whether the manager has got it right and really, to be repeating the success of the recent past, games like that should be won far more comfortably... The bookies though still have them favourites to win the league, despite not currently being top. Is the only way down? Wigan v Chelsea, 12/8/05.

But that''s my point... "expected more than 3 point". Why "expected"? Sure, I *hoped* for 9 points, but expectation is a dangerous thing. In fact, experience suggests it usually works against us. That''s why we have a poor record against lower league teams. That''s why Man Utd was our biggest win last season - no-one (least of all the players) expected it...! It''s one area that Worthy hasn''t been able to address, despite his best efforts. Whenever we play an ''easy game on paper'', it''s always tough. Worthy and the players will come out in the media saying ''we won''t underestimate them... it''s going to be tough... blah...blah...blah'' and them promptly go and put in a below-par performance. When we genuinely do think it''s going to be a tough game, we up our work-rate and perform much much better. It''s been that way for years and is part of the mentality of the club, unfortunately. So the sooner the whole club, players and fans alike, finally land back on earth with a bump, ignore what the bookies are saying, ignore our own hype about having the best strikeforce in the league with a "£10m" striker and start believing and playing as though it IS a mountain, but one that we CAN climb, then we''ll be okay. And I think that will be soon, if not now, and that is why I''m not worried about the longer term. And certainly not hysterical as some fans on message boards appear to be!

Normally, when a winning team starts losing, the fans call for the manager''s head.In Norwich, when our losing team starts winning....When we drew with Crewe it was "forget the performance, we should be beating teams like this". When we beat MKD, "forget the win, it was the performance that sucked".When Flem gave away a dubious penalty it''s "because he''s crap". When Shackell gives away a clear-cut penalty it''s " ".Never mind "man of the match", we should have a "scapegoat of the match" award for the player we want to vilify after every game. Opinions seem to be split on who gets last night''s "scapegoat of the match".

"We don''t want a team that scrapes through games against championship rivals, and is only just able to beat a league 1 team if we are hoping to be in the Premier league next year " Too right. Give the manager 100m and I''m sure he''ll sort that out for you. In the meantime, we got relegated because we weren''t good enough to stay in the Prem. When there, we couldn''t attract the players needed to stay there (nor could Soton or Palace, clearly). So what''s your plan to attract there ''good enough for the Prem'' players to come and play in the Championship? And, given that we didn''t even have a team that was ''just able to beat a League 1 team'' in previous years, would you not agree then that we have moved forward in recent years to where we are now? I''m sure Chelsea fans don''t "want a team that only scrapes through games" against bottom-of-the-Prem teams. Perhaps when they sack their incompetent manager and the ''not good enough'' players we can attract some of their rejects. And ask some Ipswich fans whether they think being "only just able to beat a League 1 team" is good enough. Personally my glass is half full. I''m relieved we got past the banana skin of the first round of the cup and am optimistic that the team will slowly get into something like top gear. And I know that we have the players to do great things when they are in top gear. Few of them are world class, but then that''s our lot; we''re not Chelsea. If I shout and sign a bit louder on Saturday, maybe I can help make it happen. Plus, I''ve learned over the past 10 years of supporting Norwich that a) it really could be a lot worse and b) knee-jerk reactions after 1 win rarely bring about an improvement.

It''s not quite right that ''nothing is going right at the moment''. We''re in the draw for the second round of the cup - ask our friends down the road whether or not to take a 1-0 win against lower league opposition.In fact, ask yourself generally which other team''s fans you''d like to swap places with....( I suspect there were plenty of Chelsea fans moaning that they only managed to beat Wigan 1-0 and how are they expecting to be challenging at the top again if they can''t stuff teams like that 3 or 4-0? )

There seems to be a lot of unrest at the moment, largely because of results so far this season (no one would be complaining if we''d won every game 3-0, right?) But I have been thinking over the past week that we need some perspective. I know we haven''t been playing as well as we know we can... but if we look back even a couple of years.... The season we went up, if we''re honest, we really struggled against the teams that went up with us. We beat Palace at home but they were the better side that night. We drew with West Brom and they looked very strong. We also managed a draw with West Ham, and they too looked very strong. I remember thinking when we got promoted: those ''hardest'' games of the season would become the ''easiest'' in the Prem! We also lost to a lower league side in our traditional manner. So here we are in August 2005. We drew with Palace in a game we dominated for long periods and were disappointed not to win. We''ve beaten the lower league side (only just, but at least we did, unlike against Cheltenham, Northampton etc.) Which teams in the Championship fill us with fear and dread? None, we think we can beat them all. We won''t, but we don''t fear anyone. So despite relegation I feel that our expectations are up at another level. We now expect to beat Palace (a team that we''ve always struggled with) and to beat that lower league side with ease (a task we''ve always struggled with!). So while I''m not pleased with all the results or performances so far, I do want to wait a couple of months to see how it all settles down. I think perhaps I''m more patient than some fans...!

I wouldn''t be surprised if it were to put managers off signing certain players, knowing who his agent was... in the same way as certain chairmen can put players off joining their clubs. But, they''re hardly going to come out in the paper and say "we were quite interested in so-and-so until we found out who his manager is, then decided against making a move for him..."

But when we won the league we had Holt, Francis and Mulryne in the middle didn''t we? Surely Hughes, Safri and Jarrett are better than those three, on balance? Unless you''re Chelsea, it''s hard to get quality players in with the lure of sitting on the bench (esp in the Championship!) And the ''what if they get injured'' line is spurious... that could happen to any position. There''s a certain amount of luck involved in staying injury free to achieve promotion. And, I think you''ll find our first team squad (minus academy players) is the same size as pretty much every other club in the division... its the way of things now.