Morph

[quote]Not quite what I said but thanks for trying. Perhaps I should leap off St Andrews car park after another home draw - would free up a seat for the next person on the waiting list. Perhaps I should sp...[/quote] Nobby, can I ask a question of you (and apologies for Dicky for taking this thread off at a tangent). You say, "What happens if we don''t get promoted? Do we all top ourselves or burn Worthy at the stake. No we grit our teeth and have another go." Would you consider that a step backwards for the club or do you not care? Would you contend that we should, on paper at least, be in with a shout of being up near the top of the division come season''s end? If we''re not do you think the club under the current coaching staff is still moving forward? See, personally, I want us to be progressing to the next level. None of this one season up, one season down stuff. I want us to be up there as a team solidifying it''s position in the top league in the country. We won''t be a Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U because simply we''re a provincial club. I don''t believe we could bring in the 60000+ crowds every week. But could City be a Charlton or a Bolton? Sure they can. Do you think that also or do you just not care where City are as long as you can see them play and win the odd game or two? ...

[quote]And get in who? No answers so far.[/quote] First off I''m not advocating that Worthy should go but.....I have a question for those who post here that believe that "Worthy can do no wrong". Note that I''ve put that last bit in quotes as I''m trying to be tongue in cheek.At what point would you consider Worthy to outlived his tenure at the club?Several posters continue to remind us that he took the club from bottom of the table obscurity under Hamilton to Premiership participants. But when would you consider a change from his style of team management, if ever?...

Once again we''ve seen a lot of threads this season, like last, with posters at apparent logger heads over Worthy''s management of the team. And as with last season it''s probably caused by peoples expectations for the club this season as much as anything else. So what do you expect from the club this season? For me: a) Exceeds expectations - promoted back to the Premiership in one of the automatic promotion spots. b) Meets expectations - in playoff spots with more than a 50% chance of successful promotion through that mechanism. c) Fails to meet expectations - outside the playoff spots but above a midtable finish. d) Abysmal failure - below midtable. For a side that has just come off of a Premiership season to finish this season below midtable would be absolutely appalling. With either c) or d) I believe the club has to sit down and discuss seriously whether Worthy and his staff can take the club to the next level. Standing by the coaching team can only go on so long as forward progress appears to being made. Going backwards doesn''t cut it but it doesn''t mean the managers head either, just an adjustment of the coaching team and techniques. So let''s take some of the emotion out of this and you give us what your expectations are for the season. ...

I might be seen as a bit of a heretic with this post given the wealth of negativity that''s flowing following yesterdays result, but I actually think Nigel had it tactically right yesterday. It was like he''d read one of my posts from earlier in the week in the "Huckerby is not a left midfielder" thread. Now I didn''t go, I confess and yes I had to make do with Radio Norfolk commentary. Maybe one of the travelling fans can comment. But I got the impression that the team had a better shape across the middle of the park yesterday. A better balance even with Marney wide right and Brennan wide left. Both offering suitable cover to the two fullbacks. Huckerby appeared also to be a problem with him drifting out of the centre and making him difficult to pick-up. However, where it falls down was the lack of support to Ashton. His knock ons, his knock backs and so on, were not picked up by City players. The man you would expect to pick them up, Huckerby, had drifted wide. By all accounts City created a good number of chances to win the game by 3-1. Niemi''s save from Brennan. The header onto the post. The ball cleared off the line from Ashton. Luck just didn''t go our way. That said where I think Nigel did stumble was in the tactical substitutions. Ok, so take a defender off for a striker - Charlton for McKenzie. But at that point I would have gone for three at the back and retained the shape in the middle of the park with Marney, Jarrett, Safri and Brennan. Push McKenzie up front alongside Ashton and leave Huckerby to roam. Unfortunately he didn''t do that and immediately removed one of the supply lines to the strikeforce - Brennan. He then compounded the issue by bringing off Colin for Thorne and pushed Marney to right back. Where did Thorne go? So in this last aspect Nigel continues to show tactical naivety. A reluctance to abandon the old 4-4-2 setup he so clearly loves. It''s OK being adventurous with the substitutions but be prepared to adapt your shape as well. Going back to Tumbleweed''s original post - I do agree that the clock should now be ticking on Nigel and the staff, but as many others have already asked - we must give him at least 10 games. Yesterday we were once again unlucky - penalty and missed chances. As Huckerby said someone is going to get a clobbering from City. The question is when!! ...

OK Andrew N answer me this. When you first saw the headline about Morrison signing on the Pink-Un homepage what was your initial reaction. Come on your initial reaction. See what concerns me in all of this is we''ve filled a need we didn''t have. We''ve bought another striker when indications are that we were in more need of either a young central defender or a central midfield player. So it''s no surprise that so many posters come on here expressing concern that the one striker that would conceivably attract interest from other clubs, Ashton, would be going. To me, at least, it was a logical reaction to the signing. Whilst it might be wailing I don''t see how any of it is whinging and whining. ...

St. John, I''d love to offer you words of comfort on this one but afraid not. My immediate reaction to the headline on the Pink''Un site was twofold: 1) Why do we need another striker? 2) What does this mean about the future of Ashton? I suspect, and hope I''m wrong, that a deal has been done behind closed doors for Ashton to move to a bigger club either immediately or in the January transfer window. I sincerely hope that is not the case, but the purchase of another striker ranks up there alongside the purchase of a third able keeper before the start of the Premiership season. Fortunately that time round Green stayed. ...

[quote]If you play in midfield of course you *should* run back and defend, its part of the job. However, Hucks is our most potent threat going forward (yes we do rely on him too much) and we need him to cons...[/quote] Putney, it does beg the question then as to why the club persists with playing him in that position. Worthy seems to have the mindset that he needs two "out-and-out" strikers, playing with one isn''t an option. He may even believe that Huckerby isn''t a striker and his threat comes from playing him in a deeper role so that he can build up his run into the opposition half. Unfortunately, I don''t think Worthy has bought off on the fact that by playing Huckerby in his wide left role he sacrifices some defensive protection that he would get from a left midfield player. Some variation of Huckerby''s role would be good from the perspective of giving the opposition something to think about. Playing up front for one game at the expense of Leon. Play him just off the two strikers for another game. Then play him wide left some other times. BUT, don''t play him wide left all the while as he becomes easier to stop. If City had two credible wide threats then double-teaming Huckerby wouldn''t be an option, but City don''t so to put two men on Huckerby isn''t such a difficult choice to make for opposition teams. It''s no doubt that he''s a fantastic attacking threat. I just don''t think the coaching staff have been flexible enough in his use. ...

"I`m not into bashing Worthy ... there`s been much talk of where the buck stops ? and , to my way of thinking , the buck stops with the players !!!! its THEY who have to earn the silly money they get" - sheded Reading the post in another thread from sheded made me think about the question where does the buck stop at City? All of us could throw our hands in the air, whether we were there or not, at the 6-0 result against Fulham at the end of last season. I''m sure we could throw our hands in the air at some of our other results under Worthy and all the management teams that have proceeded him. But it raises that question about who is responsible for a teams poor performance? Worthy clearly thought the team picked for Fulham was the right team. He picked an 11 that he thought would do the job. He picked team tactics that he similarly thought would do the job. It didn''t because ultimately the team let him, and the supporters, down - big time. Was it poor preparation? Was it poor prematch motivation? When it comes to sackings the buck ultimately stops with the manager as he is judged on his teams results, but what can he do once he''s sent his 11 onto the "battlefield"? I''ve always believed that ultimately it''s down to the manager, but players can be like petulant kids who strut around with that arrogant air sometimes and then simply go on the pitch and perform like sulky children who couldn''t care less. What does the gaffer do about that? If he can''t see it before the match - not a lot. 11 sulkers doesn''t leave him enough options with substitutions. The thing that City don''t appear to have that they have had in the past is a on the field general. Somebody that can spot when things are going wrong and make an adjustment without words from the manager. Think back over the "generals" that City have had that have made a difference - Forbes/Stringer, Bruce, Roberts, Mackay. Do we have one now? Would they make a difference? What do you think? ...

Interesting discussion this one. It''s a bit "can''t live with him, can''t live without him". How about you play Hucks up front with Deano for the first 60 minutes of a game at the expense of Leon. If Hucks is tiring or City hold the lead bring Hucks off and give Leon 30 minutes to go out there and harry the hell out of the opposition back four? In his place on the left hand side of midfield you give a game to either McVeigh, Brennan or even Charlton. Alternatively you find a quality central midfield player and play Safri on the left with Hughes in the holding role. When he plays do you think Hucks causes the rest of the team to stop thinking about other attacking options? Does he cause them to opt for the "easy" option and simply give him the ball? ...

[quote]This message was incorrectly posted (by me) to the ''Transfer Talk'' site. It should now appear where I first intended. Sorry! A couple of complimentary comments with other suggestions so far but w...[/quote] Yellow that is a really good post. I don''t think we can ignore that loads of people are disappointed with the results in the first three games. On paper, and it was just on paper, 7 points didn''t really seem beyond the club. However, the reality is much harsher. We seem to have forgotten how difficult the division is to get out of. Those 9 years in the wilderness seem to have been lost from memory because of that one season in the glory-land. I am concerned about the points you raised about the coaching staff though. "3. The manager and coaches need to actively try and improve certain flaws ... 4. Creativity in team selection and tactics when things aren''t going well ... 6. Coaches to encourage Hughes to focus on his touch and vision and not be afraid to play the difficult ball ..." I''ll ask a question of the rest of the noting populace (quite clearly I never see a match) of those three points of YRs original post that I highlighted, how many do you believe Worthy and his staff really address? Number 4 is a crucial one for me. Of the times that I have watched City on a full recorded match they have shown an inability to adapt. Stifle the attacking threat of Huckerby and the team seem unable to try something different. In that respect alone Worthy has to be prepared to be more flexible in the way he uses his tactics. If Huckerby is being tailed by two players make a change that means he''s not restricted to the left hand side of the park - bring off one of the strikers and play a left sided midfield player then giving Hucks freedom to roam. In the promotion season against West Brom at home I watched the full game and was disappointed in the lack of ideas from City. They''re going to come up against lots of teams this season that shut up shop and play for a draw. The staff and team need to be adaptable enough to change their tactics to try and break the opposition down. That extra 2 points could ultimately be the difference between being outside the promotion spots or the playoff spots. As supporters we can see these things I''m very concerned that the staff don''t. What''s more alarming is that the inflexibility has been there for the last season and a half. I''m worried that it''s going to continue into this season. The other thing I''d like to see from Worthy is a belief in the youth system. He seems to have ignored the prospects that the academy system brings through the club. Shackell has obviously been the exception. So in that respect I fear your point 7 would also be a forlorn hope. Personally I''m of the opinion that if a player is good enough then he should have the chance irrespective of his age. ...

[quote]I think people have missed the point of Dicky''s post, taking only one line and jumping on it! If you read again, Dicky is pretty much referring to those who have been booing at the end of the games -...[/quote] EvilMonkey, here''s the line from Dicky''s post that may have raised a few hackles. "Which is why it really p1sses me off to hear the booing after games by so called supporters and the constant whinging on this forum (a lot of the time by people who don''t even go to games, so are commenting on things based on second hand information)." Those are the words Dicky used, so to comment that several people jumped on a second line of his post you might find they felt they had reason to. I''d say 95% of the people who post on this board are supporters of this club in one form or another. Do you have to attend to be a supporter? The dictionary definition of supporter from Chambers Online - someone who gives a specified institution such as a sport, a team, a political party, etc their active backing, approval, promotion, etc. I''d think that 95% I mentioned earlier all qualify. We''re loyal to our club. We are active in our backing of the club. We give the club our approval. We promote the club. Are we all brilliant supporters? Who can tell. Do we all attend every home game and/or every away game? Probably not. I''ve been a supporter for over 30 years now. A season ticket holder in the season when they first got to Division 1 as it was then. I''ve followed them down Wembley way twice for the Spurs League Cup final and the Sunderland Milk Cup final. Do I have a right to want the best from the club? I think so. I''ve put some of my hard earned cash into the club just like several other posters here - the little certificate in my drawer proves it. If I had £8 million to put in, I would. But, I don''t. I live in Scotland and I can''t make the journey down for the games. If I could financially afford to, would I? You''re damned right. Am I a brilliant supporter? In Dicky''s eyes probably not. BUT I am a supporter. I proudly wear the yellow and green. I listen to the games whenever I''m able (family permitting). I follow the press, the after game phone calls, the discussion on this board. Every one of us has the right to express their opinions about the way the club is performing on this board. It''s called freedom of speech. If we complain does it make any one of us a lesser supporter? NO WAY. We just have a different expectations and aspirations from the other supporters noting here. So instead of complaining about the whingers be constructive and argue the opposing view and identify where their argument is weak and your counter argument is strong. But don''t simply say that any of the "whingers" are any less a supporter than yourself, because it probably ain''t true. ...

Tumbleweed, why wouldn''t you put Brennan in on the left side of midfield. It provides Drury with much needed defensive cover. Plus Brennan appears to be able to knock in a decent cross. ...

Overheard a caller to Canary Call on Saturday make some comment about having spoken to Roger Munby about the £1.5 million from the Francis transfer and being told by Munby that there was no point in spending £1.5 million on a player in this division. If that''s what was said I have to say I''m a little taken aback. There was a thread previously about Worthy''s penchant for hard working players and how some posters were happy to have people who were prepared to get those noses to the grindstone and work. Now whilst I sympathise with this notion I think you need to be prepared to take a risk on quality in order to make a difference in the football world. For example, Huckerby in the promotion season. I would say that for this division, a player that can turn a game is crucial for your promotion prospects. Hucks isn''t it this season as teams know how he works. So should the club continue the Worthy trend for hard working staff and bring in a couple of players for the money or should it push the boat out to bring in a quality player for the middle of the park that could be the difference between 1 point results and 3 point results? Personally I''m for the latter. Use that transfer money to bring in a quality central midfield player that is capable of orchestrating things when the team is not quite playing the way it should. But what do you think? ...

[quote]I think there''s a lot of point. Stop slating the team continuously.[/quote] OK Dicky, you''ve hit back with the standard one-line retort to those of us who are wanting, nay expecting, more. Why do you think the performances and results that we''ve seen so far from the club are acceptable? Some reasons that I''ve seen posted so far: a) new players - coming in Louis-Jean, Colin, Hughes, Marney, Thorne; b) departing players who formed such an integral part of the team - Francis, Holt, Helveg, Jonson, Edworthy, Mulryne, Crow; c) pre-season injuries hampering preparations; d) needing time to bed-in [I''ll give you this one but only to a degree - I''ve played football at various levels through my adult life and whilst it does take some time to get used to a player I don''t completely buy this one. These guys work with each other for five days a week on the training ground. You can build as much of a rapport on the training ground as you can on the pitch and it goes a hell of a way to bedding a player in. Agreed it''s not competitive football but you do get used to the way a player thinks and plays.] What the detractors have been saying is that the problems so apparent from last season have not been attended to in the off-season or the pre-season: a) sitting too deep when leading; b) losing shape when leading; c) failing to break teams down; d) failing to put games away when they have the upper hand; and so on. These can only be laid at the feet of the coaching staff. If the supporters can see the problems why can''t the staff? And if they can why hasn''t anything been done about it? The detractors want a little more from their club, are they asking too much? I don''t think so. So all you posters who think all is right with the club be prepared to post why, rather than the normal comeback of "it''s Norwich City, it can''t be broke, so lay off with the criticism and get behind the team". The detractors are behind the team but we expect a little more from the team. ...

[quote]Plenty of people are sharing ideas Dicky but you appear to have limitations in your capacity to absorb them. With regard to your comment about getting behind this product, let me ask you a few questio...[/quote] YC, so eloquently put. There are a number of anti-gripers on this board who offer us no more than the "that''s boring, sing from another song sheet" type replies and consider that nothing is wrong with the clubs performance. Sorry guys but take off the yellow and green tinted specs. If you can''t do that at least have the courtesy to tell us why you think every thing is rosy. Personally, I think we''ve dropped six points in the first three games. A seven point haul from Coventry, Crewe and Palace didn''t seem unrealistic at season kick-off. However, here we sit on three points and only four points back on the front runners. I would agree that it may be too early to panic but at what point do you start to panic? Let''s assume Wolves continues to stay up near the top. If the gap gets to more than six points between us and them would you start to worry? More than six points and you''re relying on them to slip up - more than possible in this division. ...

[quote]The early signs are concerning but its a new club for him coming from a relegated team and I do not think we can judge him on the evidence of just two games. Tuesday was poor but he deserves a fewmor...[/quote] Actually ZLF I''m not sure I agree that we give him further time to bed in. I''ve just watched the highlights of the two matches so far on CanariesWorld. On both the goals we''ve conceded so far MLJ has been off up the field playing in centre midfield. Hats off to Fleming for the attempt to stop the Crewe goal as he really committed himself to making a saving tackle. That said, it does also raise the question about the lack of cover from right midfield. Where was Marney when Crewe''s Varney picked up the ball and ran at the defense. Sure MLJ got himself pulled out of position but where was his cover from midfield. If the right back goes forward, the wide right midfield guy has to cover. That didn''t happen and MLJ was left in no mans land. ...

Tell me folks, is Jurgen Colin not an option at centre back?As someone suggested in the "lineup vs Coventry" note a back four of:Louis-Jean Colin Shackell Drurywouldn''t be all bad. But is does assume that Colin is capable of playing centre half rather than simply right back....

Nope. I''m with NavMan. There''s an expectation from the fans and, possibly the players, that it will be easy and it won''t. Best to hope for is a playoff spot. ...

Whilst you may not be alone in your thinking Dicky I don''t agree with you. From what little I saw of the Canaries last year Fleming doesn''t come across as a player to unite the team on the pitch with encouragement and togetherness. Far too often he''s looking to apportion blame, for what has often come from his mistakes. Whilst he may be a useful player to have in the squad I think it''s time to step aside and let a younger player take over his role in the back four. Unless Worthy brings in another solid centre back I think it''s time to give the pairing of Doherty and Shackell a chance to gel. ...

I still don''t completely understand this whole Jonson thing. For a player that publically announced that he was happy to stay and fight for his place it all seems like the club had an offer they can''t refuse for him. But what if Jonson doesn''t choose to go? What then? If you were Jonson and you didn''t want to go but the club to whom you are contracted is prepared to suddenly strike a deal for your services, would you stick around? I don''t think we saw the best of him and it really doesn''t look like we''ll get the chance but the latest Pink''Un report on this whole thing suggests it''s not completely signed and settled yet. ...

[quote]Agree totally, Yella Fella.[/quote] Sorry Dicky, but while Yella fella has highlighted some great positives for the club, the lack of squad depth in the back half of the team is a huge concern as the season approaches. Lose Ashton and Huckerby to lengthy injuries like Bentley, Helveg and Safri had last season and a couple of Yella''s big positives are shot down in flames. The worse scenario is to lose Jarrett and Francis to injuries and then the midfield looks really lightweight. And even though several youngsters got a run out against Dereham last night Worthy is notoriusly bad at blooding decent youngsters in the first team. Look how long Shackell took to get in. Now is the time to get new faces in so that the pre-season friendlies can be used to get players used to each other. Getting three or four new faces on the park for the first real game doesn''t fill me with optimism. Let''s sincerely hope that Worthy has got something up his sleeve because I don''t share your optimism. Promotion is not City''s by right this year, as always they have to earn it and personally I think the current squad is too small to do that. ...

[quote]Oh dear, Helveg gone (no surprise, and probably not a great loss either), but I am getting more and more concerned at the lack of rebuilding at the back. Doherty hasn''t worked out, Charlton seems to h...[/quote] Tumbleweed, you say that Doherty hasn''t worked out but to be fair I don''t think the lad was really given a chance to perform in his natural position. When he came in he was thrown up front as our "target man". When he did play at the back he was found wanting but wasn''t Fleming also found wanting. I say he ought to be allowed a chance to play alongside Shackell, at least in the preseason friendlies, to see if a partnership could be built. ...

I was there Muttley.Got a great spot in the terrace behind the goal posts where we scored, an hour before kick off. Unfortunately nature called about 10 minutes before the actual event and I never did get back to that great spectator spot. Was then in a crush for the whole ninety mintues experiencing the back-and-forth nature of the game as the crowd ebbed and flowed.Also remember driving down to Bournemouth the weekend they announced on Radio 5 (2 as was) that all English teams were banned from Europe, so the dream that should of been was cancelled before it began....

[quote]Other teams are building a squad for a promotion push, yes. BUT - we already have a squad for a promotion push! These are good players who imo can get into the team. They are free and add to a small...[/quote] Northern, not wishing to divert the point of this thread but I think there are too many posters on here who seem to believe that City are going to make an easy job of promotion this coming season. Sorry folks but it ain''t going to happen. And don''t go spouting the old line "Worthy''s done it before, he''ll do it again". It''s a tough division to clamber out of and there''s a good few teams who are more than in with a shout themselves.As it currently stands I believe the squad is down in size on what we had last season and as a few have pointed out there are still deficiencies that need to be addressed.Going out: Mulryne, Edworthy, Svensson, Holt, BentleyComing in: Louis-Jean, Jarrett, Thorne.So we''re still down on what we lost although some would argue that what we gained was better than the sum of the losses. However, the point is that the squad has shrunk rather than grown.I seriously don''t believe that Worthy has yet addressed the issue of the defence. So many of the posters so critical of the centre back partnering in the second half of last season all seem to believe that it''s going to be alright this season. That may be true, but it might have been a good time to try a different, younger combination. I don''t see it happening.We still have two potential squad losses to come in the form of Francis and Helveg leaving us even shorter for cover in midfield and right back - perhaps that''s where he''s going to put Fleming....

I have to agree with some here that you''re being a little harsh 1stWiz. That said let''s look at where we stand on the squad front with my ordering on who is the choice for each position. GK: Green, Gallacher, Ward RB: Louis-Jean, Helveg CB: Shackell, Doherty, Charlton, Helveg, Fleming LB: Drury, Charlton, Brennan LM: Huckerby, Jonson(?), McVeigh, Brennan CM: Safri, Francis, Jarrett RM: Jonson, Henderson ST: Ashton, McKenzie, Thorne, Jarvis, Henderson As it stands the position that I see we need some cover for assuming all the others stay is RM/CM. A RB/CB would also prove to be a useful acquisition. If Helveg goes then another RB come CB is needed for definite. If Francis goes a player who can double up as a RM/CM would definitely be needed. To bring in three players for nothing is pretty good dealing by Worthington and whilst they aren''t exactly inspiring signings they do solidify the squad he had. Now, Fleming out for a younger improved model would be top of my wish list.