Birmingham Fan in Peace - Hughton

[nutty nigel 7,634]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Again, two completely different things, Nigel. Agree with you 100% about the discounting of results. You can only judge a guy on his recent record as a whole. And, in my view it''s p!ss -poor.

But the stats re comeback wins/draws , is extremely relevant, as our failure to achieve them has impacted directly on the above.[/quote]

 

I''m not saying the stats aren''t relevant. I''m saying that saying they are shocking is as ridiculous as discounting results.

 

 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Again, two completely different things, Nigel. Agree with you 100% about the discounting of results. You can only judge a guy on his recent record as a whole. And, in my view it''s p!ss -poor.

But the stats re comeback wins/draws , is extremely relevant, as our failure to achieve them has impacted directly on the above.[/quote]

 

I''m not saying the stats aren''t relevant. I''m saying that saying they are shocking is as ridiculous as discounting results.

 

 

[/quote]

Are you saying that a statistic that shows that in 48 league matches we have only managed to come from behind to win once is completely irrelevant? I would say it at least is indicative of a lack of fighting spirit and ability to react to adversity.

Particularly interesting when the manager is on record following that one game effectively acknowledging that he was happy with the draw and the players ignored him to push for the win.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,092]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Again, two completely different things, Nigel. Agree with you 100% about the discounting of results. You can only judge a guy on his recent record as a whole. And, in my view it''s p!ss -poor.

But the stats re comeback wins/draws , is extremely relevant, as our failure to achieve them has impacted directly on the above.[/quote]

 

I''m not saying the stats aren''t relevant. I''m saying that saying they are shocking is as ridiculous as discounting results.

 

 

[/quote]

Are you saying that a statistic that shows that in 48 league matches we have only managed to come from behind to win once is completely irrelevant? I would say it at least is indicative of a lack of fighting spirit and ability to react to adversity.

Particularly interesting when the manager is on record following that one game effectively acknowledging that he was happy with the draw and the players ignored him to push for the win.[/quote]

 

Out of interest do we know what Lambert''s record was with regard to that particular statistic?

[PurpleCanary 5,582]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Again, two completely different things, Nigel. Agree with you 100% about the discounting of results. You can only judge a guy on his recent record as a whole. And, in my view it''s p!ss -poor.

But the stats re comeback wins/draws , is extremely relevant, as our failure to achieve them has impacted directly on the above.[/quote]

 

I''m not saying the stats aren''t relevant. I''m saying that saying they are shocking is as ridiculous as discounting results.

 

 

[/quote]

Are you saying that a statistic that shows that in 48 league matches we have only managed to come from behind to win once is completely irrelevant? I would say it at least is indicative of a lack of fighting spirit and ability to react to adversity.

Particularly interesting when the manager is on record following that one game effectively acknowledging that he was happy with the draw and the players ignored him to push for the win.[/quote]

 

Out of interest do we know what Lambert''s record was with regard to that particular statistic?

[/quote]

 

In the Premier League I think it was three times - QPR, Swansea and Wolves.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

I can recall seeing the Birmingham v Blackpool Play off semi final both legs, in the away leg Birmingham were terrible didn''t want to get out of their own half and rightly lost. second leg with Birmingham at home it was like a different team and I can remember saying why the F*** didn''t they play abit more adventurous in the away leg and they would have gone through. Trouble is that is exactly what has happened on a week to week basis with his management of us and that put such a stupid amount of pressure on home form, your basically saying we''ll play season of 19 home games while everyone else plays a full season. I have no confidence that he has a clue how to set up attacking wise for away games other than to sneak a result.

[nutty nigel 7,634]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Again, two completely different things, Nigel. Agree with you 100% about the discounting of results. You can only judge a guy on his recent record as a whole. And, in my view it''s p!ss -poor.

But the stats re comeback wins/draws , is extremely relevant, as our failure to achieve them has impacted directly on the above.[/quote]

 

I''m not saying the stats aren''t relevant. I''m saying that saying they are shocking is as ridiculous as discounting results.

 

 

[/quote]

Are you saying that a statistic that shows that in 48 league matches we have only managed to come from behind to win once is completely irrelevant? I would say it at least is indicative of a lack of fighting spirit and ability to react to adversity.

Particularly interesting when the manager is on record following that one game effectively acknowledging that he was happy with the draw and the players ignored him to push for the win.[/quote]

 

No, I''m not saying it''s irrelevant. I''m saying it''s not shocking because the points we won from losing positions were average for last seasons bottom half. Sometimes you have to sya what you see. And we saw plenty of games between us and the clubs around us where both sides were intent on not conceding first. Think about the games we watched Jim. A shocking stat is that the two teams who picked up most comeback points from the whole bottom half (13) were Reading and Wigan. So ''going for it'' did not pay dividends in last years premier league. Anyway.. I put more about it here on pages 1 & 2 and would welcome your comments : -

 

http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/forums/1/3011211/ShowPost.aspx#3011211

 

 

[bjornagain 0]

[quote user="Le Juge"]smacks of sour grapes.[/quote]you having a laugh.  I wish Nathan Redmond the very best in his career and future.  He was almost forced out the door because of the finances at Blues.   Players are players, they come and go, I personally never get attached to players and I would think a few Norwich fans are the same..back onto Hughton I''m gobsmacked you haven''t let him go yet, The only thing I can think is holding an announcement up is a few things, the international break, the severance package (lets be honest it would be substantial). Certain quarters on the board giving him support. Or your directors are looking around at who''s available to make an announcement sooner rather than later after Hughton has goneI don''t really see how he stay,  you''ve scored one goal in the league in every 150 minutes of football and conceeded, with Sunderland seemingly on the up with new management and Palace about to name someone new., surely its prudent to do the same to give yourselves a chance of staying up.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,092]

Perhaps we have over-complicated the issue. When a team cant score, cant stop the goals going in and cant pick up points, getting beatings from the big boys, dropping points against the newly promoted teams, the manager cant be long for the chop. Not wanting to sound incredibly negative, but this team, at the moment, right now - what does it do well? We cant attack effectively. We cant defend effectively. People arent happy with the style. What is our strength exactly. Last season we were allegedly tough to beat and hard to break down. Our attack was very ineffective, but at least we could defend solidly. This season I cant see a strength, not one that will save us

[bjornagain 0]

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]I can recall seeing the Birmingham v Blackpool Play off semi final both legs, in the away leg Birmingham were terrible didn''t want to get out of their own half and rightly lost. second leg with Birmingham at home it was like a different team and I can remember saying why the F*** didn''t they play abit more adventurous in the away leg and they would have gone through. Trouble is that is exactly what has happened on a week to week basis with his management of us and that put such a stupid amount of pressure on home form, your basically saying we''ll play season of 19 home games while everyone else plays a full season. I have no confidence that he has a clue how to set up attacking wise for away games other than to sneak a result.[/quote]spot on mate, except we was 2-0 down in the home leg before we woke up and got two back but it was too late by then.one of Chris''s failures and some might agree, tactics are not his strong point they never have been and in the Premiership you''ll be ripped apart without some.  Chris''s substitutions always seemed labored to me at Blues, like they was happening 10 to 20 minutes  tolate, when fans all around we shouting out to change something. If you can identify with that then I think Hughton is the same now as he was back then.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="bjornagain"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]I can recall seeing the Birmingham v Blackpool Play off semi final both legs, in the away leg Birmingham were terrible didn''t want to get out of their own half and rightly lost. second leg with Birmingham at home it was like a different team and I can remember saying why the F*** didn''t they play abit more adventurous in the away leg and they would have gone through. Trouble is that is exactly what has happened on a week to week basis with his management of us and that put such a stupid amount of pressure on home form, your basically saying we''ll play season of 19 home games while everyone else plays a full season. I have no confidence that he has a clue how to set up attacking wise for away games other than to sneak a result.[/quote]spot on mate, except we was 2-0 down in the home leg before we woke up and got two back but it was too late by then.one of Chris''s failures and some might agree, tactics are not his strong point they never have been and in the Premiership you''ll be ripped apart without some.  Chris''s substitutions always seemed labored to me at Blues, like they was happening 10 to 20 minutes  tolate, when fans all around we shouting out to change something. If you can identify with that then I think Hughton is the same now as he was back then.[/quote]

I think everything is the same, bar he has made good signings for us, of course that could also be that we currently have a better scouting system in place that is presenting him with decent potential signings for him to look at., but credit where credit is due most if his signings look good.

Tactical changes seem to consist of him and the back room staff crossing their fingers and hoping that a like for like change might make Plan A suddenly start to work. I can''t imagine we currently offer any element of surprise to the other teams in the prem.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

[quote user="bjornagain"]

Chris''s substitutions always seemed labored to me at Blues, like they was happening 10 to 20 minutes  tolate, when fans all around we shouting out to change something. If you can identify with that then I think Hughton is the same now as he was back then.

[/quote]

 

Don''t think you''ll find too many round here who''ll disagree with that....

[nutty nigel 7,634]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Perhaps we have over-complicated the issue. When a team cant score, cant stop the goals going in and cant pick up points, getting beatings from the big boys, dropping points against the newly promoted teams, the manager cant be long for the chop. Not wanting to sound incredibly negative, but this team, at the moment, right now - what does it do well? We cant attack effectively. We cant defend effectively. People arent happy with the style. What is our strength exactly. Last season we were allegedly tough to beat and hard to break down. Our attack was very ineffective, but at least we could defend solidly. This season I cant see a strength, not one that will save us[/quote]

 

Well I think we certainly have. I don''t see the point of rewriting last season. It''s been and gone and quite frankly it''s insulting to the players as well who achieved what they did. I know they earned well from it but I believe our players also have pride and wouldn''t like to think the fans didn''t appreciate their achievements.

 

I said elsewhere that a realistic expectation at this point would be 12 points. 8 from the home games and 4 from the away games. We can''t afford to carry on dropping points at that rate. For me the only consideration is tyhis season and by trying to distort facts from last season only muddies the water.

 

 

[BOO 0]

The Great Mass Debater wrote the following post at 05/11/2013 5:44

............ What is our strength exactly. Last season we were allegedly tough to beat and hard to break down. Our attack was very ineffective, but at least we could defend solidly. This season I cant see a strength, not one that will save us ......

The GMD, your statement above hits home to the heart of the debate.

I can''t see anything that''s improved, we can''t score but now leak like a sieve, confidence is shot at best, at worst the dressing room is lost.......those still supporting Hughton must explain what strengths we have!

[Norwich or die tryin! 0]

[quote user="bjornagain"]I have read some threads on here and I get the general feeling you all want him gone? but have I got that wrong.. what is the main overall feeling on Hughton, do you want him gone?personally and I must add I don''t speak for all Birmingham fans, But I never rated the guy.  He signed some horrendous players on loan for us, Peter Ramage being one, another Adam Rooney and there''s more.  We played some Horrible football, worse now I grant you but under Hughton there was no conviction in the play.  We''d basically go through motions in most matches and you couldn''t really put your finger on specific reasons why we bottled it in Europe and then the play offs.   Some Birmingham fans will say he did a wonderful job.  I would argue that although he lost around 4 or 5 Premiership players in that first summer, the squad was basically the same and but for a few personnel he had a squad easily capable of at least reaching the play offs and thats what he did.    For some unexplained reason the media fall over themselves for quiet Chris, I myself see him for what he''s been all his career, a professional ordinary player who has carried this trait into being very ordinary manager.thoughts?[/quote]Yep, spot on. Agree with it all. To be fair to Hughton his transfers have been reasonable for us but every other aspect of his management is nowhere near Prem standard. Can''t wait for the muppet to be sacked personally.

[FenwayFrank 2,467]

Bjorn, how is Adeyemi doing ?

[bjornagain 0]

[quote user="FenwayFrank"]Bjorn, how is Adeyemi doing ?[/quote]yeah he''s doing ok''ish, played 15 scored 3...a lot better than some put it that way.

aint you got rid of Hughton yet?  LOL   must admit the Hammers result surprised me some what.  when you went one down the writing was on the wall, but a stunning come back has possibly saved Chris''s bacon! add to that you have some winnable games coming up and he could be ok til New Year.   good luck anyway for the rest of the season.

[bjornagain 0]

[quote user="FenwayFrank"]Bjorn, how is Adeyemi doing ?[/quote]yeah he''s doing ok''ish, played 15 scored 3...a lot better than some put it that way.

aint you got rid of Hughton yet?  LOL   must admit the Hammers result surprised me some what.  when you went one down the writing was on the wall, but a stunning come back has possibly saved Chris''s bacon! add to that you have some winnable games coming up and he could be ok til New Year.   good luck anyway for the rest of the season.