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lake district canary

You'll never know.....

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......what might have happened,  if Hughton left the club now.    If he gets fed up with the negativity around the place - and he might - and leaves, or is forced out by the fans,  we will never know if that difficult first season under him was a transition to better things or not.   So many of us have said, get behind him, have patience, make allowances, its his first season etc etc, but that hasn''t stopped the doom mongerers from having their say.  They are entitled to their opinion, but many successful managers have had awkward first seasons and then gone on to do well and its not difficult to see why Hughton has had such a difficult season - following the most successful manager at Norwich for many years.   So why can''t the doom mongerers understand that?  

Substitutions wrong, team selection wrong, tactics wrong, entertainment value wrong, everything wrong.   Or is it?  If you think we are so bad and aren''t prepared to wait and see how things develop in a manager''s second season -  whats the point?   Who''s to say anyone else would do better?    There are few managers who could come in and do what Hughton has done - signed some quality players and try to organise a defence that was shipping goals for fun last season -  yes scoring too, but still we were panicky in defence under Lambert.   That has largely gone and the focus has moved on to midfield.   Time to develop that next season.   But not if you are a doom monger.   You want rid now of the manager, the players, DS etc.  You probably want rid of Carrow Rd too. 

Accept Hughton as our manager, stop undermining what he is trying to do - create a balanced football side with good defence AND attack, which will take time - and be a bit more positive about things.    All I know is that keeping on about how bad things are is doing no-one any good.    Try to be a bit more positive.   Its good for you - and you never know, it might just help the team if more fans are seen to be a bit more positive.

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What you are saying would have some logic to it if:a) it was a failing team he took over.b) there was any sign of him doing different things to get things working.If he only comes to life and changes things in the transfer markets twice a year then he is not a football manager. There is a lot more to it than buying players and writing 11 names on a sheet once a week.I do not want Lambert back but he has surely shown the value of motivational skills and preparation for each game- Hughton does not seem to do either of these things.I understand why the first season for PL, Brendan Rogers etc was difficult but our club was in more the position of West Brom and Swansea... those first seasons for their new guys has been great because they built on what was there rather than dismantling it.

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[quote user="Yellow Shirt"]What you are saying would have some logic to it if:a) it was a failing team he took over.b) there was any sign of him doing different things to get things working.If he only comes to life and changes things in the transfer markets twice a year then he is not a football manager. There is a lot more to it than buying players and writing 11 names on a sheet once a week.I do not want Lambert back but he has surely shown the value of motivational skills and preparation for each game- Hughton does not seem to do either of these things.I understand why the first season for PL, Brendan Rogers etc was difficult but our club was in more the position of West Brom and Swansea... those first seasons for their new guys has been great because they built on what was there rather than dismantling it.[/quote]

How do you  know he hasnt done anything differently? We''ve not had the second season yet...

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Are you only allowed one tactical approach per season now? Sorry I thought you could still change things during games and week to week. My bad- with his hands tied like that he''s done very well.

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why change his approach for this season while we are most likely to stay up?

the one objective for this season has been to stay up, anything other than that was highly unlikely no matter who we had.

why would he change his tactics for this season when he doesn''t have a bench an 1 or 2 starters he doesn''t fully trust?

the amount of understanding on this forum that comes from fifa and football manager is outstanding.

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Living in Solihull, I work with many Brum fans and they are surprised at him playing negative football. They all say that he was quite the opposite there. I believe he needs time and will be more expansive next year given a better quality of player in midfield and up front. If he keeps us up then job well done from me and all good sides are built from the back. However I fully understand why fans that are paying good money to travel and go to games are getting fed up. We have crept back to becoming a complete push over away from home!! We have registered an absolute disgraceful number of shots at the oppositions goal of late. The stats are simply "not good enough!" Having a go and missing chances fans can take, but not even registering a shot is bloody disgraceful. Seeing players like Pilkington given 4 mins to have an impact does not help! I fear for Hughton Saturday with the return of Lambert, Imagine if we are leading 1-0 and sit back like we do of late. Lambert makes changes (as he does) throwing on additional strike power at the expense of leaving them exposed at the back. His substitutions change the game and they win 2-1. Hughton gives Pilks or Becchio etc... 4 mins to get back in it and we fail. I can see Carrow Road finding this hard to take. A lot of supposition here, but football has a strange way of making things like this happen.

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For me the comparison with how "well" Swansea have done is the one I find most frustrating or irritating.

 

Yes they made an excellent buy in Michu. Fair to say it was a gamble that came off - if his quality had been that clear, he''d probably have been pinched by a rather bigger team.

 

And with his 17 league goals so far this season, they''ve managed a massive four points more than us.  If we hadn''t been shafted by the officials at Sunderland and Arsenal, we could easily have more points than them.

 

So I just can''t see that Swansea have moved on well beyond us.  Truth is that despite having landed one of the top scorers in the league, they have done slightly better than us, that''s all.

 

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I really don''t see how people compare us to swansea.

the myth that we played well last year is a contributing factor.

we played lucky and exciting. the moto seemed to be long ball, and hope it latches on.

something that will not continue to work season after season.

BR already had swansea playing a very nice short game, quick and frequent passes are what a prem club needs to be built on, and that was not us last season.

there have been hints of us moving towards this this season (I believe we still hold the record for most passes before a goal - Sund. Home game.)

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[quote user="Javiers Deaf Translator"]why change his approach for this season while we are most likely to stay up?

the one objective for this season has been to stay up, anything other than that was highly unlikely no matter who we had.

why would he change his tactics for this season when he doesn''t have a bench an 1 or 2 starters he doesn''t fully trust?

the amount of understanding on this forum that comes from fifa and football manager is outstanding.[/quote]Do you think we look safe? I don''t.I find it hard to believe that people can suggest that the squad is not up to it when last year showed we have many options of players who are able to cut it to some extent in this league.I assume that the FIFA/Football Manager reference is general rather than aimed at my comments- otherwise you are a very long way off the mark.To answer the question though the reason to change things would be to a) pick up points and b) play to the strengths of the squad he has rather than try to play a way that requires different players.People who are happy with playing for clean sheets and getting a lot of draws should note that if we were to draw every game in a season that would be 38 points- likely relegation most seasons. This year we are quite likely to end on 38 points and could well go down on goal difference.We need to win on Saturday to stay up, playing how we have all season I don''t see that happening.That''s just my viewpoint on it and I don''t expect it to win anyone over but that is why I am feeling negative.

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I am not saying this will happen and nor are the odds likely to be in their favour of achieving this, I am just saying that should Lambert pull this off via some fearless changes while Hughton stands and does nothing till too late. I can see Carrow Road finding this pretty hard to swallow. I can just as easily see his changes back firing with us going onto record a win. However managers futures come down to BIG games at this time of the season and we will find out which way it goes by 4.50pm Saturday.My point is that our performances of late have for many fans been "far from good enough" and the Hughton out momentum is growing with every game we go down without a fight.  People that were at Stoke saturday say we had 11 players that looked:A. Not interested.B. CluelessC. Not even register a decent crossD. Not manage a single shot. E. We were absolute pathetic!Given these players are paid "bloody good money" this is simply not good enough and the manager needs to sort it out fast. SOmething he has managed to do in our home games this season so far.

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quite likely to end on 38?

how do you figure that out?

2 home games left after losing 3 all season to chelsea, liverpool, and man city.

we are quite likely to finish on 40.

I would very much like to see where Wigans 6-8 points are going to come from when they have 5 games in 15 days, 4 of which are for the league, where they play WBA, Swansea, Arsenal, and Villa.

I can''t see them winning 2, let alone the 3 they will most likely need.

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The Swansea comparison for me is just that we are similar sized clubs that came up at the same time and both lost their managers last summer.I agree that we were lucky last season but you make your own luck- we could only be unlucky this year because we have given ourselves so few chances for things to turn our way.We did not play great football last year but we have played terrible football this year.As for how much better Swansea are doing- Europe next year, Silverware, never been in the relegation mix.

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[quote user="Javiers Deaf Translator"]the myth that we played well last year is a contributing factor...we played lucky and exciting.[/quote]So our 12th place finish that was previously heralded as a fantastic acheivement and outstanding job by PL and the team has now turned into bad football that somehow fooled us into thinking it was good, and we were simply lucky to get the results we did...You then have the gall to go on to defend Hughton''s negative, defensive football that''s left us totally goal shy, made our best players look very average, and had us not even registering shots on goal in some games, as being a good performance by the man in charge and a clear justification for keeping him in the job...Welcome to the wonderful world of Norwich fans ladies and gentlemen, where the blindingly obvious somehow becomes vague and not to be trusted, yet observations that are about as sensible, and as welcome as turning up to a wedding in a rubber gimp suit - suddenly become logical and absolute gospel...

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[quote user="Yellow Shirt"]The Swansea comparison for me is just that we are similar sized clubs that came up at the same time and both lost their managers last summer.I agree that we were lucky last season but you make your own luck- we could only be unlucky this year because we have given ourselves so few chances for things to turn our way.We did not play great football last year but we have played terrible football this year.As for how much better Swansea are doing- Europe next year, Silverware, never been in the relegation mix.[/quote]

Many mid-table sides suffer in the league during their European season. Think of stoke, fulham and now newcastle. Swansea will be fully stretched next season and if a big club comes in for Michu, say Spurs or Arsenal with a prospect of CL football, then I can really see Swansea fighting off relegation next season.

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JDT,I did not see Wigan winning or getting anything out of a spurs team off the back of a massive win against Man city. They nearly managed to get all 3 points!! I too believe that they will struggle to win more than 2 of their remaining 4. But I am certainly not confident they wont!! If they do win 3 we could be in serious trouble. I am struggling to understand how we have got in this position and put it down too:A. Some bad refereeingB. Some more bad refereeing.C. Some bad luck.D. Some absolute woeful performances!D is the responsibility of the manager and players to effect, of late they have not!

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you are correct LDH, but don''t forget we almost took it all against spurs twice this season, both when we weren''t performing amazingly beforehand.

and IB, if you can not see this season as a necessary evil, then I''m sorry, however that is what I believe this is and next season will be different.

if I am wrong, I will own up to it, however that is mine, and many others, stance on the matter. and a few posters seeing everything in black and white won''t change that for me.

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