Grant Holt/Steve Morison/Rickie Lambert

[unique 466]

Well on the evidence so far, Lambert looks head and shoulders above our two and will give Southampton a fighting chance of staying up, should he stay fit.

Lambert''s all round game knocks spots off our two ''big men'' at the moment, who couldn''t look less threatening if they tried.....

[lake district canary 0]

B*ll*cks.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

lambert  does look very good, but Holt was as impressive last season i hope he re discovers his form. Morison well off the pace for me

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]B*ll*cks.

[/quote]

Sorry about being so short with that, but Holt and Morison scored 26 goals between them last season.   They are not incapable, just not firing at the moment - but it will happen.    And yes, Lambert has done well to start with.      

[ZLF 335]

[quote user="unique"] Well on the evidence so far.... Lambert''s all round game knocks spots off our two ''big men'' at the moment, .....[/quote]

 

I am struggling to see what is ball cocks about this statement?

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

[quote user="unique"] Well on the evidence so far.... Lambert''s all round game knocks spots off our two ''big men'' at the moment, .....[/quote]

 

I am struggling to see what is ball cocks about this statement?

[/quote]

Well probably the only thing that''s wrong with it is that Holty and Moro are being scrutinised by critical eyes whereas Lambert is being scrutinised through highlight compilers eyes. But on face value it''s spot on.

 

 

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

[quote user="unique"] Well on the evidence so far.... Lambert''s all round game knocks spots off our two ''big men'' at the moment, .....[/quote]

 

I am struggling to see what is ball cocks about this statement?

[/quote]

I''ve already apologised and I don''t dispute what Lambert is doing, just don''t agree or like the sentiment that  Holt and Morison "couldn''t look less threatening if they tried".   Its seems to be just another thread to denigrate our strikers.    They can''t score if the team doesn''t create the chances for them.  Actually they all look lively - the team just needs that elusive win to give everyone a boost.     

[unique 466]

''Well probably the only thing that''s wrong with it is that Holty and Moro are being scrutinised by critical eyes whereas Lambert is being scrutinised through highlight compilers eyes. But on face value it''s spot on''

Just as well H&M aren''t being scrutinised through highlight compilers then, two shots on target between them over the five matches compared to Lambert''s seven, and that''s not factoring in the goals and assists(including games against Arsenal and the two Manchester clubs)..... it wouldn''t make for much of a ''highlights package''.

Are we now saying that our midfield is worse than Southampton''s and not producing enough chances for our two main strikers?

I''ll repeat that - two shots on target between them in the first five games, no wonder we''re not scoring bloody goals. Holt, as I see it, drifts far too often to the wings where he is clearly ineffective. Both players should be centred more in and around the box, After all, last season we were crossing the ball from both wings far more often and more accurately than most Premiership teams.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="unique"]''Well probably the only thing that''s wrong with it is that Holty and Moro are being scrutinised by critical eyes whereas Lambert is being scrutinised through highlight compilers eyes. But on face value it''s spot on'' Just as well H&M aren''t being scrutinised through highlight compilers then, two shots on target between them over the five matches compared to Lambert''s seven, and that''s not factoring in the goals and assists(including games against Arsenal and the two Manchester clubs)..... it wouldn''t make for much of a ''highlights package''. Are we now saying that our midfield is worse than Southampton''s and not producing enough chances for our two main strikers? I''ll repeat that - two shots on target between them in the first five games, no wonder we''re not scoring bloody goals. Holt, as I see it, drifts far too often to the wings where he is clearly ineffective. Both players should be centred more in and around the box, After all, last season we were crossing the ball from both wings far more often and more accurately than most Premiership teams.[/quote]

 

I haven''t got a problem with the view that we don''t score enough goals. It''s an obvious fact and what''s more if we don''t take chances soon we will be in trouble. But where you and I obviously differ is in the belkief that football is a team game. The whole team have to take responsibility for the results. I believe this was the key to our great success under Paul Lambert. We were a team and we defended from the front. Now I don''t care who makes the blocks or scores the goals as long as they''re scored. Snodgrass and Johnson have had a total of 21 shots of which 13 have been on target. This rather suggests to me others have created those opportunities for them. I get the impression if Morison and Holt swapped stats with Snodgrass and Johnson you''d be happy. Even though we''d have the same points and goals.

 

We singled out defenders last season. Barnett wasn''t good enough for this league and should be sold. Now we play differently he''s ok again but the forwards are getting it. It''s the team that counts. Always. If we''ve lost that team mentality that Lambert instilled in us then I really am concerned.

 

 

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

We singled out defenders last season. Barnett wasn''t good enough for this league and should be sold. Now we play differently he''s ok again but the forwards are getting it. It''s the team that counts. Always. If we''ve lost that team mentality that Lambert instilled in us then I really am concerned.

[/quote]

Don''t forget Nutty that this time last year there were several threads telling us that Ruddy was a pile of poo and that he needed replacing but now he is the dogs swingers and on the verge of being Engerlands number one.

Fickle bunch some of these posters on here.[:(]

[paul moy 235]

Shots on target stats are extremely misleading as many of Snodgrass''s shots have been like pass-backs to the keeper. We should only be including shots that were either a goal or demanded an good save from the keeper, and IMO those have been few and far between.

[unique 466]

''I get the impression if Morison and Holt swapped stats with Snodgrass and Johnson you''d be happy.''

Happier, prrobably yes. Ultimately it will be the success of the strikers that determines the course of our season. The midfield stats are encouraging, but Snodgrass is the only likely big contributor, along with Pilkington. Howson seems to be playing ever deeper, and doesn''t look as though he will fire in many, and Surman is.......well Surman.

The team need to get back to crossing the ball into the danger area for Holt and Morison aka last year. The sooner Bennett and Pilkington return,(giving Hughton more options), and utilize the areas that Holt and Morison keep drifting into, the more likely goals will stem from our forwards.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Good post Uni[Y] But I think we will get a good return from the midfield this season. We know what Pilks can do. Snodgrass is obviously going to score. I was extremely disappointed with Bennett''s return last season but we know he has goals in him and the rest of his game is still improving at a rate of knots.

 

I think much ot the disappointment in our strikers stems from the fact we didn''t improve that area in the summer. Bassong and Garrido are the best in their positions that we''ve had for many years. Snodgrass is another top player and the defence and midfield have been improved in depth too. But we didn''t sign that prolific striker we wanted. If you believe reports we were close to signing CMS. For whatever reason that didn''t happen and while I don''t think he''s better than what we already have he is a bit different and would have given us another option. I think the player we need is "a 25 goal a season Simeon Jackson". And we aren''t going to get him. We will never be able to afford him. The only way "a 25 goal a season Simeon Jackson" will ever play for us is if he comes through the youth system like Bellamy did.

 

And Paul Moy - Are you saying that while Snodgrass''s shots have been like pass-backs to the keeper Southampton''s have all been shots that were either a goal or demanded a good save from the keeper?

 

 

[paul moy 235]

I hope we sign that guy Vaughan in January.. What a star !!!!! [<:o)]

[norfolkbroadslim 225]

If we were in League One we''d have a 30 goal a season Simeon.  We may have a 25 goal a season Simeon in the Champs.  If Simeon played most games in the Prem and alongside another striker he''d get into double figures.

 

Southampton''s 4 goals came with several slices of good fortune and rub of the green.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Good post Uni[Y] But I think we will get a good return from the midfield this season. We know what Pilks can do. Snodgrass is obviously going to score. I was extremely disappointed with Bennett''s return last season but we know he has goals in him and the rest of his game is still improving at a rate of knots.

 

I think much ot the disappointment in our strikers stems from the fact we didn''t improve that area in the summer. Bassong and Garrido are the best in their positions that we''ve had for many years. Snodgrass is another top player and the defence and midfield have been improved in depth too. But we didn''t sign that prolific striker we wanted. If you believe reports we were close to signing CMS. For whatever reason that didn''t happen and while I don''t think he''s better than what we already have he is a bit different and would have given us another option. I think the player we need is "a 25 goal a season Simeon Jackson". And we aren''t going to get him. We will never be able to afford him. The only way "a 25 goal a season Simeon Jackson" will ever play for us is if he comes through the youth system like Bellamy did.

 

And Paul Moy - Are you saying that while Snodgrass''s shots have been like pass-backs to the keeper Southampton''s have all been shots that were either a goal or demanded a good save from the keeper?

 

 

[/quote]

Clearly not. All I''m saying is that we need another category for ''strong attempts on target''. A weak back-pass like ''shot'' or a 20-30 yard scuffed shot on target dribbling into the keepers arms would not qualify.  That way the stats would not be so misleading. 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

I struggle with you sometimes Paul Moy. If we don''t use the same criteria to make comparisons then the comparisons would be even more pointless. I don''t make the rules about what costitutes a shot on target. I was just taking part in a discussion about the stats as they are now.

 

 

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I struggle with you sometimes Paul Moy. If we don''t use the same criteria to make comparisons then the comparisons would be even more pointless. I don''t make the rules about what costitutes a shot on target. I was just taking part in a discussion about the stats as they are now.

 

 

[/quote]

... and you totally miss my point on our shots on target figure not being as good as some make out. If you''re going to use ''shots on target'' stats to put forward an over-positive case for Hughtons team set-up then you must expect them to be questioned also in a negative light by a not so happy-clapper.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I struggle with you sometimes Paul Moy. If we don''t use the same criteria to make comparisons then the comparisons would be even more pointless. I don''t make the rules about what costitutes a shot on target. I was just taking part in a discussion about the stats as they are now.

 

 

[/quote]

... and you totally miss my point on our shots on target figure not being as good as some make out. If you''re going to use ''shots on target'' stats to put forward an over-positive case for Hughtons team set-up then you must expect them to be questioned also in a negative light by a not so happy-clapper.

[/quote]

 

But I wasn''t using ''shots on target'' stats to put forward an over-positive case for Hughtons team set-up. I was replying to a post from Uni comparing the shots on target with a player from another team. The clue was in the thread title. Thank the lord Uni understood what I was talking about.

 

 

[Gingerpele 0]

Oh dear Paul Moy. LOL

[unique 466]

One of the biggest questions for me is how Hughton will utilize his midfielders when everyone is fit.

He blotted his copybook, for me somewhat, when he failed to bring on Hoolahan at home to West Ham in place of Surman, when it looked like we needed far more invention to secure three points, yet trusted him enough to start him away at Newcastle!

It won''t be easy getting the balance right, but we must get back to what we were successful at last year - getting down the wings and getting quality crosses into the box. We need to be able to threaten, with pace, down either wing, and I''m afraid, at the moment, Surman just does not offer enough.

Our midfield is an exciting mix, and I''m hoping Butterfield proves to be a productive addition. Ultimately they do hold the key to how our forwards perform.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

It''s a dilemna Uni. What Wes won''t give you is pace down the wing. It''s difficult to place him in anything but the diamond. Having said that I''m always disappointed if I go to a game and Wes doesn''t start. Sometimes he''s worth the admission money on his own. I know last season Lambert flirted with 3 at the back. I guess that may be worth another go with Martin, Bassong and Barnett. You could then play Garrido and Bennett as wing backs and still have a place for Wes in midfield. Just a thought.

 

 

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It''s a dilemna Uni. What Wes won''t give you is pace down the wing. It''s difficult to place him in anything but the diamond. Having said that I''m always disappointed if I go to a game and Wes doesn''t start. Sometimes he''s worth the admission money on his own. I know last season Lambert flirted with 3 at the back. I guess that may be worth another go with Martin, Bassong and Barnett. You could then play Garrido and Bennett as wing backs and still have a place for Wes in midfield. Just a thought.

[/quote]

I like that idea [Y]

The myth that Wes cannot play in anything but the diaamond is a nonsense. He can play in any midfield that is well balanced and which plays to his strengths. We mistrust any player in this country who doesn''t live up to the ideal of the traditional English midfielder. It''s why we are still shoehorning Gerrard and Lampard into our national team.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

It''s a dilemna Uni. What Wes won''t give you is pace down the wing. It''s difficult to place him in anything but the diamond. Having said that I''m always disappointed if I go to a game and Wes doesn''t start. Sometimes he''s worth the admission money on his own. I know last season Lambert flirted with 3 at the back. I guess that may be worth another go with Martin, Bassong and Barnett. You could then play Garrido and Bennett as wing backs and still have a place for Wes in midfield. Just a thought.

[/quote]

I like that idea [Y]

The myth that Wes cannot play in anything but the diaamond is a nonsense. He can play in any midfield that is well balanced and which plays to his strengths. We mistrust any player in this country who doesn''t live up to the ideal of the traditional English midfielder. It''s why we are still shoehorning Gerrard and Lampard into our national team.

[/quote]

Shack, what I meant was Wes can''t do the jobs of our present midfield players Howson and Johnson and also doesn''t give you pace on the flanks. Anyway, he''s wasted out there. I was trying to place him in midfield without losing what we already have.

 

Thinking about this what hits home to me is how much strength in depth we actually have in midfield. Someone''s favourite just isn''t going to get in even if it''s a 5 man.