Norwich & Premiership-Not In The Same Sentence Please

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Wiz, Yc and many others, me, included have been analysing matches played by our teams over many years. In my opinion the last one and a half seasons have had the same lack of organisation and lack of ...[/quote]

Beelsie: Whilst the basic thread of your argument seems sound, I''m somewhat confused by it. You say that IYP the team has, in the last one and a half years, had a lack of organisation and on the field leadership.

Hmm, lets examine that shall we, comfortable Division One Champions (or was that lucky?) and now 2 points adrift of the safety zone, with at least 30 points to play for!.

Ye Gods, what would we do in a crises!.

I, as you may know, was a Mike Walker man, I loved the guy, and what a team. His tactics were bang on. But times change.

Don''t you think Nigel already knows the problems mentioned by you and YC?, that he recognises the problems and is working on them.

The difference between myself and the pro YC posters is this, I trust Worthy to keep us in the Premiership, I don''t believe YC, you and the others do.

The other thing I have detested about this thread, is the arrogance that some posters believe by keep going on like this, they can actually influence Worthy''s decisions. Worthy is his own man, and makes HIS OWN decisions, without any advice from us posters, and long may that continue.

Yes, I would like perfection too beelsie, but again I ask the question not one of you have dared to answer yet. Give Nigel 120 million pounds, then if perfection doesn''t come , complain then.

Otherwise, let him get on with the job.

Finally, whether we deserve to win or not, winning is all that matters and it is more important than style at this moment in time. Win we stay up, lose we go down, see, simple.

Staying up could mean another 30 million going to the club, spend that wisely, and then we might just get close to your idea of perfection!.

[Gentleman Jim 0]

I''m not entirely sure whether YC is pouring his dismay into saturday''s match alone or the whole season in general.

No one contests his views on the badness of the display it seems, though equally the general consensus is that the previous match against Everton they were good.Therefore perhaps we might write it off as a one off ?

The pressures were great,for both teams of course I know, they were told before the match that it was a "must win" situation, that alone could cause the nervousness that affected City more, it seems, than West Brom.

I am prepared to forgive them for that performance,  I find myself drifting into the "Never mind the Quality, feel the width .. " camp, get three points regardless of their beauty.

We were lucky yes, we haven''t had too much of that. Luck brings good results, good results breed confidence and confidence produces good performances and success.

As to our defence, well Blackburn''s forwards have scored 0,0,0,2,0,1,1,0,0,0 in the last ten matches. Hardly enough to make our defence quake in their shoes is it ?

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

Wiz :-

"Look into my eyes. Look into my eyes. The eyes. The eyes. Not around the eyes. Don''t look around my eyes. Look into my eyes... You''re under."

Your petty squabbles with YC are boring, my friend.

How many rants and critiques of ncfc have you been the author of?

"3-2-1. You''re back."

 

[StevenageFan 0]

Wiz why haven''t you take your own advice when happily stating what lack of ambition the board and Nigel have?

One post your are are against Nigel the next you are defending him.

You have also made assumptions and you should no more than most that when you assume something it only serves to make an ass out of u and me.

You assume that YC and co, don''t trust Nigel to keep us in the Prem.

I don''t recall anyone writing that, merely pointing our some basic errors that keep cropping up, the fact we are worried about them tells me that those posters are desperate for us to sort them out STAY in the prem and on top of that for Nigel to be the one to sort them out.

You assume that the aforementioned (myself included) are arrogant enough to think Nigel listens to us!!!

That''s and unbelievable assumption.   Do you really think that by sharing an opinion that anyone thinks they can do a better job than Nigel?   When you happily slated Nigel for not buying 2 class defenders in the transfer window did we accuse you of the same arrogance?  Suddenly Nigel is your hero.

You assume that we want perfection.

The whole jist of this thread is about BASIC mistakes.  The word BASIC has been repeated time and time again, do you read other people''s posts?   No one has mentioned nor expects perfection, we would just like to see footballing basics improving like postiional awareness, off the ball runs, man marking, passing, tackling, winning headers etc.

Calm down and stop getting so worked up.  You yourself have accused me of seeing things through Yellow and Green glasses, perhaps you should take your own advice.  Yes we won, 3 points fantastic, but hey we were lucky, we played terrible and didn''t deserve it.   If we carry on like that we are going down - simple.

[beelsie 0]

Wiz, to take up one or two of your points: many moons ago I said I was a firm supporter of the board and was also Pro Worthy. 

Also I did not and do not believe that any of NCFC staff or team read, or indeed look at these boards.

I do not seek to influence the clubs running policies, or I would approach the club direcly, as it would be polite to do.

I use these boards to express my opinion to other users on how I understand the position to be regarding the club, IE: whether or not it is improving and whether or not things are in my opinion going in the right direction. I do not seek that others should not voice their opinions whether I agree with them or not. The point made about leadership on the field over the last two years, was in my opinion correct and I included my ryder remark about Malkie being the exception.

In the last game I witnessed the most blatant disregard of the basics of defensive football being disregarded all over the pitch, YC''s assessment of the game in my opinion was spot on and many other users agree.  Regarding Worthy whoom I wholeheartedly support and his limited financial options described by yourself. Let me use an analagy using the Ferrari and the Ford motor cars as my example for you and like minded readers.  I would believe that many of us may Ford or like owners and would expect that if we set out in the well maintained Ford in a journey from Norwich to Edinburgh we would expect to arrive safe and secure at the destination. The Ferrari, costing at least 10 times as much will also do the journey and may turn a few heads on the way there, a service on the Ferrari will cost £1000+ and the Ford £50+.

Why is it that they all arrive at the destination with some credit? ANS, because the manufacturers all got the basics right!!  It''s the same with football you arrive with a creditable result if you get the basics right.  And to close I am still very sure that the defensive errors committed in our escape to the Prem were fortunately not punished as they should have been or we would most certainly would not be where we are today.  Also making the same mistakes, with the difference, that we are being punished for them.  Down to basics again. Good coaching if the message is getting across will iron those problems out, but only if the players are willing to absorb the info and get stuck in. OTBC!!!!

[FatMan Fat 0]

Okey dokey - here is my three pennyworth

• Fact - we won -hurrah
• Fact - we played crap, probably the worst all season
• Fact - we haven''t had an organised defence since the departure of Malkay - I am NOT saying he should still be with us - indeed Fleming was dire on Saturday and it ended with him having a public spat with Docherty as to who should be marking who, not very professional
• Fact - we have the worst defence in the Premiership - therefore something needs to be done about it
• Opinion - some of our tactics were damning on Saturday - no balance in the first half, Hucks withdrawn to deep left in the second half etc etc
• Opinion - I don''t really give a rats arse if we play badly as long as we pick up points and stay up. However, in the longer term we really do need to do some work on some football basics otherwisw we will suffer whichever League we are in.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]This is ridiculous, really, everyone that has attacked YC and his backers think about it for a moment. Most of you agree that his points are concerns and we played badly. Yet you choose to argue wit...[/quote]

Sorry Stevenage, but you are in error. I made a pledge (and kept to it) not to mention anything about the board during the transfer window, so how could I, as in your words, condemn them during it?.

Yes, I said 2 defenders would have been handy, but I also praised the board too!.

If you must criticise me, get your facts right!.

Plus if you can''t be bothered to read my posts properly, then why should I listen to you?.

For the last time on this subject, why I got fed up with YC''s post is simple. After a vital win, he tried to ruin our moment of pride and happiness in this, with his post telling me what I''d just seen with my own two eyes!.

But from now on I''ll let the team do my talking for me, just remember this at the of the season, because sure as hell, I will!.

[StevenageFan 0]

sorry Wiz, I''m not meaning to drag this spat out, but I did have facts right and yet again you are guilty of not reading what people have written.  I wrote:

"When you happily slated Nigel for not buying 2 class defenders in the transfer window "

this sentence means that Nigel did not buy 2 class defenders during the transfer window and you slated him for it. 

It does not mean that you slated Nigel during the transfer window as you have assumed.  Why would anyone slate the manager whilst the window is still open anyway?

Still what about all the other points?  All the amazing assumptions you made about what people are thinking whilst they type.

At the end of the day we all love Norwich City FC right?   So why are we arguing?  I think we are arguing because of YC and Wiz''s history and nothing more.  If anyone else had written the same post Wiz can you honestly say you would have answered in the same way?

I am a great believer in letting people have their opinion without getting angry with them.

[sheded 0]

      Its  a  funny  old  game !!

By and large  most of the posters  bring up valid [ but fairly obvious ] points .......       basically  our defence  are committing the cardinal error of   allowing opponents time on the ball  when they`re  deep into our half .........  we have to  close them down EVERY time ! .........  by not doing so   we have been  witnessing   the ball getting into our box  far too often ......    so its ... GET THE TACKLES IN EARLY !! .........  no striker likes to be closed down as soon as he gets the ball  [ except Hucks , who seems to thrive on it ] ...... 

We  have to stop leaking silly goals  ... it puts pressure on our strikers  , and is generally demoralising  

By the way , never ignore the X factor !!  ....  whats that ?  I dunno , but it certainly  came into operation  against WBA  

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]sorry Wiz, I''m not meaning to drag this spat out, but I did have facts right and yet again you are guilty of not reading what people have written. I wrote: "When you happily slated Nigel for not buy...[/quote]

Fair points Stevenage, but can I stress one thing. It wasn''t just because Yankee posted this thread what got me annoyed.

If you had posted this, my reaction would have been just the same, whether or not you chose to believe that, is beyond my control my friend.

No, what I overreacted to (okay, I was angry) was Yankee''s general conclusions. Watching a game on TV and actually being there, tells two different stories as you know ( if he was at the game, then of course I apologise to him)

The tension and stress of the occasion does not travel well down the television arieal!. This got to the team and supporters, and I believe it did effect the team''s performance, its not that often, you must admit, that this has happened this season.

Still, you''re right, at the end of the day we''re all City supporters, so I''m now going to take a chill potion and calm down on this.

I have too much respect for you to continue to argue this debate, especially when I might lose it again, and neither of us want that, yes?.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

Wiz

Weren''t you going somewhere the other day and not coming back??? Looking back at it, perhaps it wasn''t a bad idea after all!

It''s good to see the voices of reason finally coming to the fore - Beelsie, Morph & YC particularly - I thought I was alone in despairing of the defensive frailties. As for the "how can you moan - we won brigade" - we beat the bottom team by the odd goal and played appallingly badly - if we think that was an example of "Canary Spirit" then God help us all...I would rather be remembered for winning games than having "spirit" - everyone loves a plucky little loser don''t they...?

[StevenageFan 0]

I love ya Wiz

 

[westoncanary. 0]

I couldn''t care less how we stay up.  I have some mates who are WBA fans and they say the same thing, it DOESN''T matter how we get the results at the moment so long as we do.  Forgive & forget any silly errors made on the pitch, they will happen in this division, we probably aren''t good enough yet but so long as we can keep picking up points from those around us we will be OK, all we have to do is finish at the top of the 5 team mini-league at the bottom of the Prem.

See you at Blackburn.

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]Okay, we won. Some will say that''s the main thing. It''s only one game and we set ourselves up to fight another day. Others will say it''s about time we had a little luck. One comment was that our players appeared to be nervous even in the warmup. A good few posters have commented on how poor we were. Let me be clear. We were shockingly poor. Put the score to one side - I have seen teams three divisions lower put on a better display of football than what emanated from Norwich City today. With performances like that we do not belong in the Premiership, plain and simple. I have just watched this game three times to make sure I wasn''t mistaken - I was not!

The football gods must have decided to gift Fleming and Doherty a couple of goals as an ironic offset to their woeful inadequacy as central defenders. On today''s performance they are analogous to taking two cart horses to Epsom hoping to win the Derby. They gifted so many chances to West Brom ( that were not converted ) that we could have scored a couple of more ourselves and still lost by three goals.

I just could not believe what was going on all over the pitch. Basic organisation for our team was virtually nonexistent. We did not represent a Premiership team in any facet of tackling, positional play, thinking creatively, seeking space off the ball. Let''s just take tackling as an example. Our players visibly appeared late thinking about it, when the thought did occur we were slow moving to tackle, and when we actually did arrive we did not appear committed. Of course there were exceptions, but generally this was the pattern of our play.

I have watched a lot of different Premiership games this season and I honestly have not seen another team, with as much continued frequency, hoof the ball straight up in the air in the defensive zone, having it fall straight back to the ground in the same area of danger. So if I''m such a Canary fan, why do I dwell on these negatives when we won the game? I''ll tell you why. Like every other City fan, I hope for our survival this season but, even more importantly, I even more fervently desire for long-term progress.

The lack of basic field organisation and absence of basic skill application is a serious concern because, if anything, it''s been a growing problem in the second half of the season and, therefore, there is no reason to believe, if unchecked, it won''t carry straight over into next season regardless of which division we find ourselves in. 

If I were in charge at Carrow Road I would already be convening a meeting in the War Room to see what CONCRETE steps could be taken for the foreseeable future to draft in top quality coaching as if our lives depended upon it. You wonderful people who are supporting the team week in and week out deserve nothing less.      

 [/quote]

Perhaps YankeeCanary does know what he is talking about after all....... Those last two paragraphs are worthy of Mystic Carl Robinson!![:D]

 

[ca 1]

Ive always thought that Yankee talked a lot of sense [:D] well most of the time anyway!!

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]Okay, we won. Some will say that''s the main thing. It''s only one game and we set ourselves up to fight another day. Others will say it''s about time we had a little luck. One comment was that our players appeared to be nervous even in the warmup. A good few posters have commented on how poor we were. Let me be clear. We were shockingly poor. Put the score to one side - I have seen teams three divisions lower put on a better display of football than what emanated from Norwich City today. With performances like that we do not belong in the Premiership, plain and simple. I have just watched this game three times to make sure I wasn''t mistaken - I was not!

The football gods must have decided to gift Fleming and Doherty a couple of goals as an ironic offset to their woeful inadequacy as central defenders. On today''s performance they are analogous to taking two cart horses to Epsom hoping to win the Derby. They gifted so many chances to West Brom ( that were not converted ) that we could have scored a couple of more ourselves and still lost by three goals.

I just could not believe what was going on all over the pitch. Basic organisation for our team was virtually nonexistent. We did not represent a Premiership team in any facet of tackling, positional play, thinking creatively, seeking space off the ball. Let''s just take tackling as an example. Our players visibly appeared late thinking about it, when the thought did occur we were slow moving to tackle, and when we actually did arrive we did not appear committed. Of course there were exceptions, but generally this was the pattern of our play.

I have watched a lot of different Premiership games this season and I honestly have not seen another team, with as much continued frequency, hoof the ball straight up in the air in the defensive zone, having it fall straight back to the ground in the same area of danger. So if I''m such a Canary fan, why do I dwell on these negatives when we won the game? I''ll tell you why. Like every other City fan, I hope for our survival this season but, even more importantly, I even more fervently desire for long-term progress.

The lack of basic field organisation and absence of basic skill application is a serious concern because, if anything, it''s been a growing problem in the second half of the season and, therefore, there is no reason to believe, if unchecked, it won''t carry straight over into next season regardless of which division we find ourselves in. 

If I were in charge at Carrow Road I would already be convening a meeting in the War Room to see what CONCRETE steps could be taken for the foreseeable future to draft in top quality coaching as if our lives depended upon it. You wonderful people who are supporting the team week in and week out deserve nothing less.      

 [/quote]

Perhaps YankeeCanary does know what he is talking about after all....... Those last two paragraphs are worthy of Mystic Carl Robinson!![:D]

 

[/quote]

Its more on the lines that if you have an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters they''ll eventually produce the entire works of Shakespeare.

 

[Tumbleweed 106]

You might well court favour with yankee, but in fact many people hd been calling for better coaching for a long time. It has been patently obvious on the pitch that basic mistakes were being made with poor positioning, bad marking, low tactical awareness and poor covering at the heart of our midfield and defensive ailments. Even the most myopic demagogues defending Worthington to the hilt have seen this problem time and again. Frequent were the calls for the whole back room staff to change.