3 games in and end of the transfer window what are our relegation prospects

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Of course these are very early days but we have seen a few league performances now against a good cross section of premiership sides ie ones that may struggle, be mid table and towards the top. added to that we know our squad now.

I must say having seen 2 of the games and heard feedback from Chelsea that by and large i have been impressed by how the squad has performed. I think we need to be a tad less naive in certain areas ie in defence we have given 3 penalties away had a few unforced errors and had 2 sent off. I accept on other days we may not have been treated as harshly but that kind of error rate cannot continue if we are to stay up

To be honest i think we are very slightly behing where i had hoped in respect of points i would have hoped for 3 or 4 but again it is early days.

Holt has impressed me after the Wigan game and i like our midfield and wide men. I do worry about being able to score enough goals v the number we let in

The transfers towards the end of the window have worked against us with QPR and to a lesser extent Blackburn bringing in recruits that should help their cause.

I share the faith in Lambert and his team but think this will be a long hard season which will have its ups and downs

I hope we have managed to get a decent points return on the board before the last 10 games r so which look very hard.

In conclusion i am optimistic that we will stay up but a little less than before the season started

[smooth 114]

Yorkshire I very rarely disagree with you and I think you post is spot on.

I was hoping for a few more points and believe the next two games are pretty big and would like 4 points, but both are winnable and can get a monkey off our back (first win at home this season and a very belated away prem victory).

I do think naive is the word. But that is good as long as you learn and in this league if you don''t learn you will go down. Concentration and execution are key, if we go down it is because we have had lapses in a ll three.

I beleive our team is young and hungry, well settled and now realise what is expected. It is a long season but you have to act early as a promoted club.

Window is shut and overall happy but not ecstatic. I agree that a few teams around us may feel they have picked up personnel that certainly will help them in that battle to stay up. I certainly feel they are now better equipped.

In conclusion I still think we may be able to scrape it. But we need to start building our points tally. I would say with the close of the window I still feel we have a massive job to do with the players we have and as with yorkshire, I am optimistic but a little less that we may scrape in and stay up this year.

Anything above is a bonus but I will only truely celebrate this year if we are mathematically safe of relegation. Not for a win against a top four team etc. We have must wins coming up and cannot rely on the other 30+ games, each game is worth 3 points let get them as early as we can

[Jim Smith 2,610]

I tend to agree with you both. I think that there are lots of positives from the opening few games and overall I remain cautiously optimistic but at the same time there are obvious lessons that need to be learnt if we are going to stay up. In many ways i think the first few games have been perfect in that they have not dented our confidence too much yet at the same time have provided a bit of a reality check.

The fact is that there are not going to be any easy games in this division. i know we''ve said that about the champ before but lets be honest there were some easy games. Here, every team we play against has quick, multi million pound players who will hurt you if you make mistakes. I think that all the goals we have conceded so far have been as much down to defensive errors as any particularly good play by the opposition. Whilst the numbers of mistakes are a worry, that is at least something we can resolve and the fact we have let in few goals other than those flowing from mistakes suggests that in other respects the defence is functioning ok.

Going forwar i think we have shown already that we will create chances against anyone and the key there will be being more clinical and for certain players (Morrison and Martin) to realise they need to pull the trigger earlier when thhey get the chance. i look forward to seeing what impact Vaughan has when he comes back.

I am slightly disappointed that it appears that Blackburn and QPR have strengthened yesterday and the latter really should now survive if Warnock manages them half decently That has on face of it made our task harder but Lambert has stuck to his principles with this squad and now we must wait and see if his way proves to be the right way. i sincerely hope it does because I would much rather stay up with a squad of young, hungry players than have the likes of Joey Barton in our squad. That said i''d rather stay up with the like sof Joey barton in my squad than go down!

Once again, therefore, ILWT. If he can keep us up this season then i really believe he could turn this squad into something quite special within 2 or 3 seasons.

[Gingerpele 0]

I''m not really any good with predictions, most of the time I don''t really look at any stats/form etc etc I just go on my personal opinions, so my judgement of the relegation battle is based mostly on my opinion, so is probably way of the mark, but....

I think we will be safe. I know Lambert hasn''t been a premiership manager before, but he hadn''t been a Championship manager before last season, this is of course a bigger step up. But Wigan managed to survive last season (and i think the season before hand?) despite signing players many hadn''t really improved the squad all that much, although they have started much better this season. Some of our signings are already showing signs of good things to come. And in my opinion, we haven''t even seen our best signing in action yet (Vaughan) we have played 3 different formations so far (4/5 if you included the post red-card formations) so we have options. Hoolahan who I and many others rate as our best player (technically speaking) will not even be in the starting line up every game. He fits into the diamond and 5-3-2 formation, as well as the 4-5-1 we saw in pre-season. But the standerd 4-4-2 that we will probably see used a fair bit this season, has no place for Hoolahan. But that allows Bennett and Pilkington, two young wingers who look like they could both be great players the chance to shine. We have options for CM/DM positions in flat and diamond formations, with two tough tackling players in Crofts and Johnson, a playmaker in Fox and then whatever Surman is supposed to do in Surman, and then Smith as back up, with Hoolahan also able to play as a CM if needed. We have decent options up front. And even with three injured CBs, we still have a very good paring in Barnett/De Leat and R.Martin can cover there in desperate times. I think we have decent enough players, and Lambert manages to build a very solid team/squad with players you may not necessarily rate as good enough for the job at hand, but under Lambert they manage to be good enough (Look at Holt, he didn''t have a good time in the Championship in the short time he played there before he came to Norwich, but last season he was one of the best players around). I just think the way we have got through the last two seasons, will get us through this one.

I''ve written more than i planned too there, so will be a bit more concise with my view on the other teams.

Newcastle: Shouldn''t really be in a relegation battle, but they have seen Carroll, Nolan and Barton leave in 2011, as well as others i believe, without bringing in decent replacements. They were beating to the signing of Ruiz by Fulham if rumors are to be believed, so that puts Fulham either financially better off or in club stature above Newcastle. I can see them finishing low, they may just have enough to avoid relegation, if players like Best can step up like he did last weekend. But certainly, i don''t have confidence in Pardew, and his squad doesn''t appear to be all that great in quality, quite a bit worse than the team that got the relegated 2/3 seasons ago.

Fulham: Don''t think they are in any real trouble, although they need to pick themselves up in the league soon, or they could find it hard to build up any momentum if they leave it much longer.

Blackburn: Don''t really know if the manager is up to the job, they were safe enough last season, but i think Blackburn have been slowly getting worse over the past few seasons, and despite a couple of decent signings yesterday, I really don''t see them pulling away from the bottom of the table, a few injuries keeping the few key players they have left out for a run of games would be a disaster for them., as far as I can see they don''t have enough decent back up players. But i''m not that clued up on Blackburns squad.

Wolves: I think they are much better this season, with only one change, the new CB Johnson. He was talked about on MOTD a couple of weeks ago, and said he could be a turning point for Wolves, and I think that''s right. All last season, whenever i saw an interview with Mick McCarthy, he seemed to always be saying how well they played and luck wasn''t on their side. All they need is that luck, and they are know where near the relegation battle.

West Brom; Should be safe because of Hodgson, Shane Long was an excellent signing, wish we had signed him not sure how much he went for in the end, but its probably worth it. They may look shakey for a while, but I think if only because of the man incharge they will pull through in the end.

QPR: Lots of outsiders think they will shine this season, I like many Norwich fans think they will implode. Yes they have quality players, but i certainly don''t have confidence in Warnock to deal with the egos, the pressure the hasbeens and crocks. I don''t really like QPR, so that opinion is probably clouding my judgement, but money doesn''t buy you everything, with Chelsea it needed a wonder manager to get success, and since ''the special one'' left, they have only been half as good as they were with him. Man.C have managed to develop what is probably the best starting XI in the premiership, and should be really going for every competition, because they also have a quality second XI they strength in depth is amazing, loaning players like Adebayor and Santa Cruz, selling Bellamy and SWP etc shows how far they have come in a couple of years. But back to QPR, I think they needed an extra season in the Championship, trying to build up the quality needed for their ambition, which is obviously near impossible in the lower league, but i think they have been buying anyone with ''premiership experience'' who was available and willing to go , there is a reason Barton and SWP aren''t at better clubs. I think they are going to go down, or be a lot closer to going down than most expect from them.

Swansea: Look like they are facing a real problem, no goals in three games, and they are an attacking team. Maybe they just don''t have the luck, but we went through a whole season in the prem without much luck, and i think Swansea will do the same. Can''t see them staying up. They have been playing well enough and creating loads of chances, but not taking them. Sounds a bit like us, but at least we have taken 3 of those chances so far, goals are key. Two mistakes against Wigan and Stoke cost us two goals essentially, if we eradicate that against WBA, we will win. Swansea although making a few mistakes at the back, don''t appear to me to be as rectifiable as ours, it just seems like the defenders aren''t good enough. I think with ours we just need to build up confidence, a bit more experience and concentration to get rid of those silly mistakes, its probably the same for the Swans, but to me it just looks worse for them.

Wigan: Look better than ever now, but i still fear for them that they will be drawn into the relegation position too much this season. I think they could stay up again, because they have had the spirit and luck to do so two times before, but this season they just seem to have a bit more quality and confidence, meaning they should be safe.

If I wear going to be on the 3 going down, it would be Swansea, QPR and Blackburn at the moment. Although us, Wigan and Newcastle could be very close to that, anyway it will be out of us 6 i think. Sorry for that extremely long post....

[Jim Smith 2,610]

I would also throw Sunderland into the mix. people seem to be ignoring them when discussing who are relegation contenders but all is not right there and i don''t really rate Bruce as a manager, I have a feeling they may implode this season and despite the fact they have made lots of signings i don''t think many of them are that great.

[Gingerpele 0]

I think Bruce is an alright manger, nothing special. Would fail at a club like Everton with no money to spend. But i think he will keep Sunderland up with ease, they won''t challenge for Europe places or anything, probably won''t get top 10 but they are good enough not to be drawn into a relegation battle unless something drastically bad happens.

[PurpleCanary 6,381]

The last Premier League game I watched (including on TV) was Fulham 6 Someone Else 0, so this is all pretty much new to me. But I do wonder if Everton should be added to gingerpele''s list of possibles.

 

At a glance their squad looks short of goalscorers, and unless things change off the field it appears they won''t have much money to spend in January. Added to which Moyes has now been there nearly ten years. And a decade of hard work. Sometimes a manager just gets old in the job.

 

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

It''s much too early to make any predictions as to the outcome of this season - unless you are Nostradamus of course. 10 games in will give us some idea. 20 games will give us a much better idea. Let''s just wait and see.

[alysha 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]I''m not really any good with predictions, most of the time I don''t really look at any stats/form etc etc I just go on my personal opinions, so my judgement of the relegation battle is based mostly on my opinion, so is probably way of the mark, but.... I think we will be safe. I know Lambert hasn''t been a premiership manager before, but he hadn''t been a Championship manager before last season, this is of course a bigger step up. But Wigan managed to survive last season (and i think the season before hand?) despite signing players many hadn''t really improved the squad all that much, although they have started much better this season. Some of our signings are already showing signs of good things to come. And in my opinion, we haven''t even seen our best signing in action yet (Vaughan) we have played 3 different formations so far (4/5 if you included the post red-card formations) so we have options. Hoolahan who I and many others rate as our best player (technically speaking) will not even be in the starting line up every game. He fits into the diamond and 5-3-2 formation, as well as the 4-5-1 we saw in pre-season. But the standerd 4-4-2 that we will probably see used a fair bit this season, has no place for Hoolahan. But that allows Bennett and Pilkington, two young wingers who look like they could both be great players the chance to shine. We have options for CM/DM positions in flat and diamond formations, with two tough tackling players in Crofts and Johnson, a playmaker in Fox and then whatever Surman is supposed to do in Surman, and then Smith as back up, with Hoolahan also able to play as a CM if needed. We have decent options up front. And even with three injured CBs, we still have a very good paring in Barnett/De Leat and R.Martin can cover there in desperate times. I think we have decent enough players, and Lambert manages to build a very solid team/squad with players you may not necessarily rate as good enough for the job at hand, but under Lambert they manage to be good enough (Look at Holt, he didn''t have a good time in the Championship in the short time he played there before he came to Norwich, but last season he was one of the best players around). I just think the way we have got through the last two seasons, will get us through this one. I''ve written more than i planned too there, so will be a bit more concise with my view on the other teams. Newcastle: Shouldn''t really be in a relegation battle, but they have seen Carroll, Nolan and Barton leave in 2011, as well as others i believe, without bringing in decent replacements. They were beating to the signing of Ruiz by Fulham if rumors are to be believed, so that puts Fulham either financially better off or in club stature above Newcastle. I can see them finishing low, they may just have enough to avoid relegation, if players like Best can step up like he did last weekend. But certainly, i don''t have confidence in Pardew, and his squad doesn''t appear to be all that great in quality, quite a bit worse than the team that got the relegated 2/3 seasons ago. Fulham: Don''t think they are in any real trouble, although they need to pick themselves up in the league soon, or they could find it hard to build up any momentum if they leave it much longer. Blackburn: Don''t really know if the manager is up to the job, they were safe enough last season, but i think Blackburn have been slowly getting worse over the past few seasons, and despite a couple of decent signings yesterday, I really don''t see them pulling away from the bottom of the table, a few injuries keeping the few key players they have left out for a run of games would be a disaster for them., as far as I can see they don''t have enough decent back up players. But i''m not that clued up on Blackburns squad. Wolves: I think they are much better this season, with only one change, the new CB Johnson. He was talked about on MOTD a couple of weeks ago, and said he could be a turning point for Wolves, and I think that''s right. All last season, whenever i saw an interview with Mick McCarthy, he seemed to always be saying how well they played and luck wasn''t on their side. All they need is that luck, and they are know where near the relegation battle. West Brom; Should be safe because of Hodgson, Shane Long was an excellent signing, wish we had signed him not sure how much he went for in the end, but its probably worth it. They may look shakey for a while, but I think if only because of the man incharge they will pull through in the end. QPR: Lots of outsiders think they will shine this season, I like many Norwich fans think they will implode. Yes they have quality players, but i certainly don''t have confidence in Warnock to deal with the egos, the pressure the hasbeens and crocks. I don''t really like QPR, so that opinion is probably clouding my judgement, but money doesn''t buy you everything, with Chelsea it needed a wonder manager to get success, and since ''the special one'' left, they have only been half as good as they were with him. Man.C have managed to develop what is probably the best starting XI in the premiership, and should be really going for every competition, because they also have a quality second XI they strength in depth is amazing, loaning players like Adebayor and Santa Cruz, selling Bellamy and SWP etc shows how far they have come in a couple of years. But back to QPR, I think they needed an extra season in the Championship, trying to build up the quality needed for their ambition, which is obviously near impossible in the lower league, but i think they have been buying anyone with ''premiership experience'' who was available and willing to go , there is a reason Barton and SWP aren''t at better clubs. I think they are going to go down, or be a lot closer to going down than most expect from them. Swansea: Look like they are facing a real problem, no goals in three games, and they are an attacking team. Maybe they just don''t have the luck, but we went through a whole season in the prem without much luck, and i think Swansea will do the same. Can''t see them staying up. They have been playing well enough and creating loads of chances, but not taking them. Sounds a bit like us, but at least we have taken 3 of those chances so far, goals are key. Two mistakes against Wigan and Stoke cost us two goals essentially, if we eradicate that against WBA, we will win. Swansea although making a few mistakes at the back, don''t appear to me to be as rectifiable as ours, it just seems like the defenders aren''t good enough. I think with ours we just need to build up confidence, a bit more experience and concentration to get rid of those silly mistakes, its probably the same for the Swans, but to me it just looks worse for them. Wigan: Look better than ever now, but i still fear for them that they will be drawn into the relegation position too much this season. I think they could stay up again, because they have had the spirit and luck to do so two times before, but this season they just seem to have a bit more quality and confidence, meaning they should be safe. If I wear going to be on the 3 going down, it would be Swansea, QPR and Blackburn at the moment. Although us, Wigan and Newcastle could be very close to that, anyway it will be out of us 6 i think. Sorry for that extremely long post....[/quote]

No need to apologise, great post Gingerpele [Y]

[exiled blue 0]

as has already been said, it`s much too early to even hazard a guess at your prospects for the season. with only 3 games played. i think we can all name the 5 or 6 teams who will most likely be there or thereabouts, but there are too many variables to name the unlucky 3. injuries are often the key in this league, in other words the depth of the squad. in the lower leagues it was possible to lose a main man, and still have enough skill/power to beat some of the lesser teams. unless you have top-drawer stand ins, the prem is far less forgiving. so luck with injuries will play a very big part in your season. also the ability to bounce back from an absolute caning is a barometer of how you will do!!. swansea took a pasting in the first game of the season, and don`t look to have recovered yet. pre-season their forums were full of how well they were going to do, how the opposition couldn`t score if they didn`t have the ball etc. the wheels came off at eastlands and they still look punch drunk!. give it another 10 games or so, and the real shape of the table will start to emerge.

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

Well that''s that then.... we''re going down.

Anybody want my season ticket?

[Gingerpele 0]

Picking up on one of yours points exiled blue, about lesser teams, just compare who could be considered a lesser team between premiership and Championship:

Prem:

Norwich, QPR, Swansea, Wigan, Blackburn, Newcastle, Fulham, WBA, Wolves, Sunderland are probably the ''lesser teams'' in the premiership this season.

Championship:

Doncaster, Barnsely, Peterborough, Coventry, Palace, Burnley?, Hull?, Brighton?, Ipswich :P

Most of the ''lesser'' teams in the Championship have less than 5 years between them in the premiership.. It think the Championship looks quite strong this year, especially since Southampton, Brighton and Pboro have all started well, as have Palace, then Watford and Doncaster who have been decent for periods in the last 2/3 seasons (Donny not so much last year) are right down the bottom at the moment.

I wouldn''t want to predict where anyone is going to finish in that league this season, i''d be more certain of Swansea/QPR/Blackburn going down than picking the teams coming up from the Championship.

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="InLambertWeTrust"]Well that''s that then.... we''re going down.

Anybody want my season ticket?[/quote]

Who said were going down?

Oh, and saying we can''t predict this early. Of course you can''t accurately predict finishing positions, you can''t even really do that fully on the last day of the season. But based on opinions, early performances etc etc you can guess/discuss what you think will happen. As i said, i will probably end up being completely wrong, Liverlose will win the league with Arsenal second we will finish bottom and QPR will finish 9th or something silly like that, just as likely as what i predicted...(well maybe)

[Robert N. LiM 6,278]

Good thread this.

I think it''s good to see that people aren''t getting too carried away with the performance at Chelsea. I think it''s good that people realise we are in for a really tough season and that 17th on goals scored would be one hell of a result.

The big question seems to be, can these young, hungry players learn quickly enough? With a little less naivety we might have held on to the win against Stoke and possibly nicked a point at the Bridge.

I am not the sort of person to get hysterical about stuff, but I really believe we have to beat West Brom. The longer we go without a win the more difficult getting that win will be (see last time for evidence). If we can win that game and get a point at Bolton then we''ll be in good shape. Two points or fewer and the pressure will already begin to mount.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

[quote user="Robert N. LiM"]Good thread this.

I think it''s good to see that people aren''t getting too carried away with the performance at Chelsea. I think it''s good that people realise we are in for a really tough season and that 17th on goals scored would be one hell of a result.

The big question seems to be, can these young, hungry players learn quickly enough? With a little less naivety we might have held on to the win against Stoke and possibly nicked a point at the Bridge.

I am not the sort of person to get hysterical about stuff, but I really believe we have to beat West Brom. The longer we go without a win the more difficult getting that win will be (see last time for evidence). If we can win that game and get a point at Bolton then we''ll be in good shape. Two points or fewer and the pressure will already begin to mount.[/quote]

A quick look at our home games in the first half of the season compared to the second half tells you all you need to know about why its important we now kick on and get some wins under our belt before Christmas. Aside from Arsenal/Spurs arguably all of the games at home this side of the New Year are games we really need to be winning.

We won''t win them all but out of WBA, Sunderland, Swansea, Blackburn, Newcastle and Fulham at home we really need to be getting in excess of 12 points.

[smooth 114]

Dan druff mentions we can have a look in 10 and 20 games time to see hwere we are. Well in 20 games time the window re-opens and some would say that we know we add to some players in to positions already, possible goalkeeper cover for one.

I agree with Jim SMith regarding winning games at home before xmas. We need to build a bit of a fortress, home points can mean survival. There is urgency and we can see holes our teams play. Nothing wrong with that, but it is how quick you as an individual and as a team step up.

I expect us to step up, the new players have been brought in because we assume they will and hence those that have left are thought not to.

I am disappointed we didn''t come out and make a statement against wigan, but I believe they will be disappointed to not to have got three points against a promoted team. Stoke at home is heart wrenching, a win being a minute away, can tell other prem. teams to keep knocking on the door NCFC may struggle to hold on to a 1-0. Chelsea we played very well and the score line was unfair.

But thats it, we may have dropped two points. Now we need to go into the wba game with a must win attitude. They are bottom, so lets go 3 points further clear of them. We need to become cut-throat and really push from this int. break. I expect a win and a draw in our next 2 games but feel we have a really good chance in both. I hope the players are truely up for these two big, big games that can kick start our season. If not then I think we will be struggling all year. The start is so very important