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LeJuge

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I know that this is a minority, but it really grates on me to see unfair criticism constantly levelled at Norwich players. You would have thought that this was one of the few times in our history when this criticism wouldn''t occur, but no, we have people who are never happy.You wouldn''t think that these players had just played a major role in winning us back to back promotions. For example, John Ruddy and Chris Martin, who seem to be the latest targets of the moan squad.I must have a severely obstructed view or something because for me both of these lads did a good job last year, the former did a fantastic job the year before. Every single player who featured regularly in the squad last season has legend status in my eyes even if they look way out of their depth next year. The stuff aimed at Cody McDonald is pretty extreme at times too, your talking about a lad who has never really been consistent for us but has broke a sweat and bust a bollock every game he has played in. I truly hope that Ruddy and Martin prove the doubters wrong, just like Russell Martin did this year, but even if they don''t.... they still have respect and gratitude from me. As for Cody McDonald, wherever he ends up I wish him the greatest of luck, whether he makes a career as a prolific League One striker or makes it to the Prem, good on him I say.How can anybody actually have any criticism of any of our current squad? What is there to criticise? Perhaps with the exception of Steven Smith, who chose not to contribute. Ruddy, Martin, Cody, all legends to me.

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I don''t think it is really criticism as such, more a realist assessment of these three player''s prospects for next season.

 

These players are appreciated fully for their achievements on behalf of the Club, but there are genuine concerns that they (and others) might struggle at Premiership level.

 

I, personally believe that Ruddy and Martin should be given a chance, but this has to be weighed against the fact that the team must come first. There is little room for sentiment up there, the stakes are too high.

 

We all love Cody, but realistically he is not really Prem. standard and we should cash in, to the benefit of both parties.

 

I reserve judgement on the other two. Ruddy has improved and become a stalwart. Martin is an enigma and might well be at home amongst the prima-donnas of this supposedly elite league. 

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A few days ago i met a very experienced youth team coach for Portsmouth, he described Lambert in one word.

Ruthless.

Lamberts new players could be classed as bigger, harder and faster. We need to be to step up to the Premier Leaque. Its called evolution, survival of the fittest. Adapt or die.

No room for sentiment, thats for the fans.

H

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[quote user="LeJuge"] The stuff aimed at Cody McDonald is pretty extreme at times too, your talking about a lad who has never really been consistent for us...[/quote]

Five starts, four goals.

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

We all love Cody, but realistically he is not really Prem. standard and we should cash in, to the benefit of both parties.[/quote]

Realistically he would have to be tested in the Premiership for that to be a valid statement.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"]

[quote user="LeJuge"] The stuff aimed at Cody McDonald is pretty extreme at times too, your talking about a lad who has never really been consistent for us...[/quote]

Five starts, four goals.

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

We all love Cody, but realistically he is not really Prem. standard and we should cash in, to the benefit of both parties.[/quote]

Realistically he would have to be tested in the Premiership for that to be a valid statement.

[/quote]

 

Realistically, he''s not nearly good enough. Quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about football, that is.

 

I actually saw him play at Gillingham once last season as I go there for an occasional live game. Unfortunately, I was reminded of Cody''s limitations, even at L2 level.

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[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="LeJuge"]Perhaps with the exception of Steven Smith, who chose not to contribute.[/quote]
In what way has he "chosen not to contribute"?

[/quote]

 

He took to the highlands saying he was homesick didn''t he Graham?

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

 

Realistically, he''s not nearly good enough. Quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about football, that is.

 

[/quote]

In your opinion you mean, and you are hardly qualified to speak for those who know ''anything about football'' are you?

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[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="LeJuge"]Perhaps with the exception of Steven Smith, who chose not to contribute.[/quote]In what way has he "chosen not to contribute"?[/quote]He played a few games, got injured, and then decided he wanted to play in Scotland again. Which he then did, by playing in Aberdeen 340 miles away. That was the reason that we signed Tierney. Source: Paul Lambert.He made a clear decision to play elsewhere rather than compete for a place at Norwich when getting fit in January, and as a result Paul Lambert made the decision to buy another left back. Couldn''t be any clearer in my eyes, I take it you didn''t know this then? Unless you are in the know about something that the rest of us aren''t? Because either he didn''t want to contribute for the second half of the season, or Lambert is lying, and I seriously doubt the latter.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"]

[quote user="LeJuge"] The stuff aimed at Cody McDonald is pretty extreme at times too, your talking about a lad who has never really been consistent for us...[/quote]

Five starts, four goals.

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

We all love Cody, but realistically he is not really Prem. standard and we should cash in, to the benefit of both parties.[/quote]

Realistically he would have to be tested in the Premiership for that to be a valid statement.

[/quote]I think your pushing it a little with the five starts four goals stuff, considering he scored most of those goals off the bench and had 25 substitute appearances too. He didn''t perform first time around, simple as. He did OK when called upon in League One, but in reality didn''t look out of place in that league. I wouldn''t be against extending his contract for a year and shipping him out to The Championship, to see if his new found confidence has really changed his game, but there is no way that I would put him on the pitch in the Premiership with the 5 strikers that we have in front of him. I''d probably give him minutes over Wilbraham, but that isn''t saying too much.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]

 

Realistically, he''s not nearly good enough. Quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about football, that is.

 

[/quote]

In your opinion you mean, and you are hardly qualified to speak for those who know ''anything about football'' are you?

[/quote]

 

Eh? Translation please.

 

 

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"][quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]

 

Realistically, he''s not nearly good enough. Quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about football, that is.

 

[/quote]

In your opinion you mean, and you are hardly qualified to speak for those who know ''anything about football'' are you?

[/quote]

 

Eh? Translation please.

 

 

[/quote]

No spee-kee En-ger-lish?

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="BroadstairsR"][quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]

 

Realistically, he''s not nearly good enough. Quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about football, that is.

 

[/quote]

In your opinion you mean, and you are hardly qualified to speak for those who know ''anything about football'' are you?

[/quote]

 

Eh? Translation please.

 

 

[/quote]

No spee-kee En-ger-lish?

[/quote]

 

Eh? Are you all the ticket?

 

By the way,  Cody''s playing level is not a matter of opinion it is a matter of fact, otherwise why would the likes of Oldham and Peterborough be after him, rather than even the lesser Premiership sides?

 

On reflection, I withdraw my question. You are not all the ticket.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="BroadstairsR"][quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]

 

Realistically, he''s not nearly good enough. Quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about football, that is.

 

[/quote]

In your opinion you mean, and you are hardly qualified to speak for those who know ''anything about football'' are you?

[/quote]

 

Eh? Translation please.

 

 

[/quote]

No spee-kee En-ger-lish?

[/quote]

 

Eh? Are you all the ticket?

 

By the way,  Cody''s playing level is not a matter of opinion it is a matter of fact, otherwise why would the likes of Oldham and Peterborough be after him, rather than even the lesser Premiership sides?

 

On reflection, I withdraw my question. You are not all the ticket.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"][quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="BroadstairsR"][quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]

 

Realistically, he''s not nearly good enough. Quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about football, that is.

 

[/quote]

In your opinion you mean, and you are hardly qualified to speak for those who know ''anything about football'' are you?

[/quote]

 

Eh? Translation please.

 

 

[/quote]

No spee-kee En-ger-lish?

[/quote]

 

Eh? Are you all the ticket?

 

By the way,  Cody''s playing level is not a matter of opinion it is a matter of fact, otherwise why would the likes of Oldham and Peterborough be after him, rather than even the lesser Premiership sides?

 

On reflection, I withdraw my question. You are not all the ticket.

[/quote]Whilst I pretty much agree with you, that Cody isn''t Premiership (at least yet, far too much of a jump), I would say that this is still our ''opinion'' and certainly not ''fact''. That doesn''t detract from the fact that Joanna Grey clearly has an inflated opinion of Cody.I reckon he should reject offers from League One, its make or break for him, and I also think we should speculate on him. Give him another year on his deal, get him out to a lower Championship team such as Peterborough, and let''s just see if he is good enough. If he scores goals he might be worth keeping, particularly if we don''t manage to stay up, if he doesn''t then its time to give him to Oldham. But I would agree that there is no way he should be getting minutes for us next season. I like the lad, I think he has talent, but no players go from League Two to the Premiership for good reason. He might be able to skip one division and go straight to Champs, but never skip two. Look at Holt, Crofts, Jackson, they have all gone League 2, League 1, Champs, Prem. Russell Martin has done a similar thing. I would never rule out Cody reaching the same level as any of those players to be honest, but none of those players would have been able to go from League Two to Premiership, simple as. He has a chance of really making it, but this just isn''t his season at Norwich. The season after? Possibly, only one way to find out, and that''s to shove him in at the deep end in the Champ and tell him to prove himself.

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I think my head says that he is going to be a Jamie Cureton though, make a good career as a prolific scorer in League One, maybe a couple of good seasons in The Championship, and float around until well into his mid thirties as he joined the game late. A more humble version of Curo of course. We can afford to give him another year just in case though, the bloke is probably on L1 wages, I wouldn''t grumble.

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[quote user="LeJuge"]I think my head says that he is going to be a Jamie Cureton though, make a good career as a prolific scorer in League One, maybe a couple of good seasons in The Championship, and float around until well into his mid thirties as he joined the game late. A more humble version of Curo of course. We can afford to give him another year just in case though, the bloke is probably on L1 wages, I wouldn''t grumble.
[/quote]

 

What you say, I agree with, except for the fact that  you state that we should give him another year. That''s all that is left on his contract before he can walk away on a Bosman. The decision has to be made now, and I think we should cash in ASAP.

 

Renewing his contract early is, of course, an option, but he would probably demand higher wages.

 

Too much sentiment and forum time surrounds this player. For sure, his rise from non-league is the stuff of Boy''s Own and for sure he is a trier, with knobs on, but we have squad of 25+ players at Carrow Road to devote our attentions to and so has Lambert, making the attention given to just this one disproportionate to the extreme. Particularly, as is more or less established, he will unlikely be used next season at first team level. 

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[quote user="LeJuge"]
Whilst I pretty much agree with you, that Cody isn''t Premiership (at least yet, far too much of a jump), I would say that this is still our ''opinion'' and certainly not ''fact''. That doesn''t detract from the fact that Joanna Grey clearly has an inflated opinion of Cody.

[/quote]

I do not have an inflated opinion about Cody, my opinion is that he is a problem in that we (the fans) are not quite sure of his level. BroadstairsR is sure (it''s a fact in fact) that he is not PL level, others say that he should be given a chance in the Squad. The problem lies in the fact (and this is a fact) that he has only a year left on his contract so what do we do with him?

1, Sell him now and get as much for him as we can.

2, Extend his contract and put him in the Squad. Keeping him here and playing him in the PL reserve league at least would give Lambert a good assessment of his abilities.

3, Loan him out for the full season and let him go for nothing next year. Not likely is it?

4, Loan him out for half a season to a L1 or a lower Championship side, risky in that if he does not deliver the goods his stock falls, if he does well his stock rises, if he does exceptionally well then he can be pulled into the Squad come January.

As none of us are really sure of his potential level (save those of us who managed to watch him in one game for Gillingham last year) we will have to trust in Lambert''s decision.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]I think my head says that he is going to be a Jamie Cureton though, make a good career as a prolific scorer in League One, maybe a couple of good seasons in The Championship, and float around until well into his mid thirties as he joined the game late. A more humble version of Curo of course. We can afford to give him another year just in case though, the bloke is probably on L1 wages, I wouldn''t grumble.[/quote]

 

What you say, I agree with, except for the fact that  you state that we should give him another year. That''s all that is left on his contract before he can walk away on a Bosman. The decision has to be made now, and I think we should cash in ASAP.

 

Renewing his contract early is, of course, an option, but he would probably demand higher wages.

 

Too much sentiment and forum time surrounds this player. For sure, his rise from non-league is the stuff of Boy''s Own and for sure he is a trier, with knobs on, but we have squad of 25+ players at Carrow Road to devote our attentions to and so has Lambert, making the attention given to just this one disproportionate to the extreme. Particularly, as is more or less established, he will unlikely be used next season at first team level. 

[/quote]He isn''t the only player in our squad to come from a non-league background though, Grant Holt didn''t play League football until he was 23, Hoolahan was playing in the Irish league until 24, Morisson was playing non-League football just 2 years ago, Crofts was shipped out to the Conference on loan. He is still only 25, and arguably has the same amount of League experience as Hoolahan and Holt at his age. That''s why I am wary about letting him go, not because of sentiment, but I trust Lambert to make the right decision. At the moment it looks like Lambert is prepared to let him go, but rates him highly enough to hold out for a good price and will probably put add-ons or clauses in any deal. I think that''s the best solution, 50 goal clause, sell on percentage, etc etc. I think that Peterborough would get a good player for £500k to be honest, I think he''s easily worth that. Which brings us back to if we get relegated, you have to ask whether Vaughan and Morisson would be here if we came down, particularly if Lambert isn''t, you also have to ask how much longer Holt has left. He might have 4 years, but he might have 1, players can decline quickly - albeit he doesn''t rely on pace. Hypothetically though, if we came down, we could be left with no Lambert and a new manager coming in with not much money and a squad depleted of players. That is why I think he might be worth another year. I certainly see a lot more in McDonald than I do Oli Johnson, although I am prepared to be proved wrong.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]Whilst I pretty much agree with you, that Cody isn''t Premiership (at least yet, far too much of a jump), I would say that this is still our ''opinion'' and certainly not ''fact''. That doesn''t detract from the fact that Joanna Grey clearly has an inflated opinion of Cody.

[/quote]

I do not have an inflated opinion about Cody, my opinion is that he is a problem in that we (the fans) are not quite sure of his level. BroadstairsR is sure (it''s a fact in fact) that he is not PL level, others say that he should be given a chance in the Squad. The problem lies in the fact (and this is a fact) that he has only a year left on his contract so what do we do with him?

1, Sell him now and get as much for him as we can.

2, Extend his contract and put him in the Squad. Keeping him here and playing him in the PL reserve league at least would give Lambert a good assessment of his abilities.

3, Loan him out for the full season and let him go for nothing next year. Not likely is it?

4, Loan him out for half a season to a L1 or a lower Championship side, risky in that if he does not deliver the goods his stock falls, if he does well his stock rises, if he does exceptionally well then he can be pulled into the Squad come January.

As none of us are really sure of his potential level (save those of us who managed to watch him in one game for Gillingham last year) we will have to trust in Lambert''s decision.

[/quote]I''ve already told you what I would do, and it doesn''t fall into any of your options. 5. Give him another year and loan him to a lower Championship side. And I think you will find that most of us have watched a video showing every single one of his 25 goals, forget about whatever match you saw, he looked class at that level. But League Two to Premiership overnight is still madness and something has to come in between.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]
Whilst I pretty much agree with you, that Cody isn''t Premiership (at least yet, far too much of a jump), I would say that this is still our ''opinion'' and certainly not ''fact''. That doesn''t detract from the fact that Joanna Grey clearly has an inflated opinion of Cody.

[/quote]

I do not have an inflated opinion about Cody, my opinion is that he is a problem in that we (the fans) are not quite sure of his level. BroadstairsR is sure (it''s a fact in fact) that he is not PL level, others say that he should be given a chance in the Squad. The problem lies in the fact (and this is a fact) that he has only a year left on his contract so what do we do with him?

1, Sell him now and get as much for him as we can.

2, Extend his contract and put him in the Squad. Keeping him here and playing him in the PL reserve league at least would give Lambert a good assessment of his abilities.

3, Loan him out for the full season and let him go for nothing next year. Not likely is it?

 

4, Loan him out for half a season to a L1 or a lower Championship side, risky in that if he does not deliver the goods his stock falls, if he does well his stock rises, if he does exceptionally well then he can be pulled into the Squad come January.

As none of us are really sure of his potential level (save those of us who managed to watch him in one game for Gillingham last year) we will have to trust in Lambert''s decision.

[/quote]

 

I am totally sure as a layman of course (sic.). 

Neither is the player that young anymore, making it a bit late to wait for him to realise his potential. He should be fully "deveoloped" by now and he has had chance enough, either by being in the starting eleven or coming off the bench. How much longer does the player need? Lambert will have assessed all this by now.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]

[quote user="LeJuge"]Whilst I pretty much agree with you, that Cody isn''t Premiership (at least yet, far too much of a jump), I would say that this is still our ''opinion'' and certainly not ''fact''. That doesn''t detract from the fact that Joanna Grey clearly has an inflated opinion of Cody.

[/quote]

I do not have an inflated opinion about Cody, my opinion is that he is a problem in that we (the fans) are not quite sure of his level. BroadstairsR is sure (it''s a fact in fact) that he is not PL level, others say that he should be given a chance in the Squad. The problem lies in the fact (and this is a fact) that he has only a year left on his contract so what do we do with him?

1, Sell him now and get as much for him as we can.

2, Extend his contract and put him in the Squad. Keeping him here and playing him in the PL reserve league at least would give Lambert a good assessment of his abilities.

3, Loan him out for the full season and let him go for nothing next year. Not likely is it?

 

4, Loan him out for half a season to a L1 or a lower Championship side, risky in that if he does not deliver the goods his stock falls, if he does well his stock rises, if he does exceptionally well then he can be pulled into the Squad come January.

As none of us are really sure of his potential level (save those of us who managed to watch him in one game for Gillingham last year) we will have to trust in Lambert''s decision.

[/quote]

 

I am totally sure as a layman of course (sic.). 

Neither is the player that young anymore, making it a bit late to wait for him to realise his potential. He should be fully "deveoloped" by now and he has had chance enough, either by being in the starting eleven or coming off the bench. How much longer does the player need? Lambert will have assessed all this by now.

[/quote]What more could he have done last season to prove his potential though? He scored 25 league goals, won the player of the season, had his loan club desperate to keep him, and has become hot property for League One clubs in the same way that Holt was when he signed for us. He scored just as many goals as Holt scored at that level, more than Jackson scored at that level, and just as many as Morisson was scoring in the league below. I don''t know enough about his all round game to make a full judgement, but they say a striker is judged by his goals, and he couldn''t really be expected to score any more than that? I honestly don''t see what else he could have achieved, he had an injury too, without that he would probably have been the top scorer in the league. As a striker sent out on loan, could he really have walked away thinking that he could have done more? Strikers just don''t score 40 goals a year these days, 25 is about as high as it gets in any of the leagues, 18-20 in the Prem. The days of Steve Bull are long gone. In terms of his all round game though, if that is a concern, then it should be noted that Steve Claridge said that Jackson came back into the Norwich fold at the end of last season playing a much different game than he was used to. Lambert took a player who was a poacher and developed his all round game. I don''t buy into this "should have realised his full potential" stuff either. Over the past 12-18 months we have seen Lambert mould Russell Martin, Andrew Crofts and Simeon Jackson into players playing the best stuff of their careers. The former, Martin, came into his own last season at the same age as Cody. That''s a player we signed for £50k from a team who were at the time 24th in the Championship.But irrespective, I''ll trust whatever Lambert decides.

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Cody didn''t really have a chance at championship level before he was shipped out on loan for a season, and scored many goals in a poor side. He is more experienced now, and I hope that he will be given a chance. After all he did what Simeon did, and no-one doubts that Simeon will come good.

I think that Martin did have a problem, but he is very committed to the club now. His control in the tight confines of the penalty area, his ability to spot passes and his dead ball kicking at goal are not really surpassed by anyone else we have.

Ruddy I hope will come good, but I am a little anxious. We could forgive him the errors early last season, but from the Season DVD there were still some later. The problem is that being a keeper is an unforgiving responsibility. If you make a mistake, especially in the Premiership, a goal will usually be conceded. He is still reasonably young, and will improve, but could we afford further punishing errors?

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]

[quote user="LeJuge"] The stuff aimed at Cody McDonald is pretty extreme at times too, your talking about a lad who has never really been consistent for us...[/quote]

Five starts, four goals.

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

We all love Cody, but realistically he is not really Prem. standard and we should cash in, to the benefit of both parties.[/quote]

Realistically he would have to be tested in the Premiership for that to be a valid statement.

[/quote]

 

Realistically, he''s not nearly good enough. Quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about football, that is.

 

I actually saw him play at Gillingham once last season as I go there for an occasional live game. Unfortunately, I was reminded of Cody''s limitations, even at L2 level.

[/quote]

 

I assume that that obviously includes you.

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Oh, Monsieur LeJuge, I give in ...... totally.

 

Wigan watch out  you could be facing Cody MacDonald sooner than you think.

Forget Holt''s belligerence, Morison''s pace or Jackson''s goal poaching, or Vaughan''s skills or Martin''s versatilty and be aware that Cody is the dangerman and should be man-marked x2 at all times.

 

It is premature and will have worried  them worried as they were probably expecting to meet him the season after the next  in the Championship playing when against Peterborough UTd.

 

A bit of silly light-heartedness by me I know. This interesting  thread thread has gotten to be a bit intense and bit repetative.

 

Although as it contains the word "Cody," it could well drag onfor months.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]

 

Realistically, he''s not nearly good enough. Quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about football, that is.

 

[/quote]

In your opinion you mean, and you are hardly qualified to speak for those who know ''anything about football'' are you?

[/quote]

Amazing arrogance isn''t it. Broadstairs should be managing in the Prem as he obviously knows every player that would make it in the Prem and the rest of us who are open-minded obviously should not bother contributing to this debate. The fact is that nobody knows who will make it from our squad until they are given a fair chance of a good run of games at that level.   

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[quote user="YellowLittle1"]Completely agree, let''s keep supporting our players as well as the club.[/quote]

 

Where on earth is the fun in that?[;)]

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="YellowLittle1"]Completely agree, let''s keep supporting our players as well as the club.[/quote]

 

Where on earth is the fun in that?[;)]

[/quote]

 

 

Haha, was going to go a lot more in depth, but nearly got caught by the boss.

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