Wages

[Hannibal 0]

From what i have been told the reason Doc was released was because he wanted a better deal than we offered. Already being the currant top earner (Believe it or not) he wouldn''t agree to a decent wage. Lambert thought he could use the wages from both Cureton and Doc to better use and the rest as they say is history.

I thought Doc had a blinding season but i trust PL and Doc didn''t really set the world on fire last season at that level. So i can see why this has happened

Will always give the doc a clap if he plays against us.

Any way just what i have been told

OTBC

[JF 694]

The players he has released he has prob freed up about 12 grand a wk in wages. Im sure he will bring in some very good players on that money. Very good decision for me,

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

If Doc had stayed then he deserves to be in the bottom half of wage earners at the club

[bjg123 0]

In Cureton, Doherty and Russell that''s 20k a week saved, or thereabouts, or just over £1m, that''s £1m whacked straight into Lambert''s kitty to spend on wages and fees.

[Hannibal 0]

[quote user="bjg123"]In Cureton, Doherty and Russell that''s 20k a week saved, or thereabouts, or just over £1m, that''s £1m whacked straight into Lambert''s kitty to spend on wages and fees. [/quote]

I am lead to believe its a bit more than 20k a week we will be saving.

[AndyCanary 0]

[quote user="bjg123"]In Cureton, Doherty and Russell that''s 20k a week saved, or thereabouts, or just over £1m, that''s £1m whacked straight into Lambert''s kitty to spend on wages and fees. [/quote]And do you think Lambert can bring in 2 players of the same quality as Russell & Doherty for that figure or less? otherwise your point is totally daft.

[bjg123 0]

20-30k sounds about right, a lot of guesswork involved. 20k was my very lowest estimate, so used it to be conservative. Either way it''s £1-1.5m saved.

[morty 0]

Lol, a lot of very wild assumptions being made in this thread!

[AndyCanary 0]

[quote user="bjg123"]20-30k sounds about right, a lot of guesswork involved. 20k was my very lowest estimate, so used it to be conservative. Either way it''s £1-1.5m saved.[/quote]So lets say it''s £1.5m saved..... we need to find 2 players (at least) who are better than Russell and Doc who will accepts wages of the same rough amount or less. Perhaps in a worst case scenario they''d need more splitting the money saved from Cureton.That''s fine, but you''re forgetting transfer fees. Unless you''re hoping we pick up some free transfers which begs the question why are they not being retained by their club?

[bjg123 0]

[quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="bjg123"]In Cureton, Doherty and Russell that''s 20k a week saved, or thereabouts, or just over £1m, that''s £1m whacked straight into Lambert''s kitty to spend on wages and fees. [/quote]And do you think Lambert can bring in 2 players of the same quality as Russell & Doherty for that figure or less? otherwise your point is totally daft.[/quote]Credit me with a little intelligence, of course I think he can. Any new player will get a 2 year contract, as would have Russell or Doherty so let''s take their wages over that time period. Discount Cureton as he doesn''t count, as his wages are saved either way, so over 2 years at let''s say 8k a week twice over, which is £1,664,000, lots of good centre backs available on a free, who''d probably command a similar wage, or slightly less, so bring in one of those at 7k a week for 2 years, that leaves us £936,000 to replace Russell. Either a freebie on 9k a week or a 400k transfer on just over 5k a week.That''s assuming they need directly replacing - which they don''t, Doherty is relatively expendable. We have Nelson and Askou, who are at least as good, and Whitbread who is unproven. The new centre back need not be a starting 11 player, so could be a young freebie on low wages, freeing up money to be spent elsewhere. Rusty also doesn''t neccessarily need a direct replacement. If we stick with the diamond Hughes or Smith may well prove good enough to play the role, with the other on the right.

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="bjg123"]20-30k sounds about right, a lot of guesswork involved. 20k was my very lowest estimate, so used it to be conservative. Either way it''s £1-1.5m saved.[/quote]So lets say it''s £1.5m saved..... we need to find 2 players (at least) who are better than Russell and Doc who will accepts wages of the same rough amount or less. Perhaps in a worst case scenario they''d need more splitting the money saved from Cureton.That''s fine, but you''re forgetting transfer fees. Unless you''re hoping we pick up some free transfers which begs the question why are they not being retained by their club?[/quote]because they have better offers, or want to move, or the clubs can''t afford them...

[bjg123 0]

[quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="bjg123"]20-30k sounds about right, a lot of guesswork involved. 20k was my very lowest estimate, so used it to be conservative. Either way it''s £1-1.5m saved.[/quote]So lets say it''s £1.5m saved..... we need to find 2 players (at least) who are better than Russell and Doc who will accepts wages of the same rough amount or less. Perhaps in a worst case scenario they''d need more splitting the money saved from Cureton.That''s fine, but you''re forgetting transfer fees. Unless you''re hoping we pick up some free transfers which begs the question why are they not being retained by their club?[/quote]Just seen this. As I said above - they do not need directly replacing. You also have to think whether Lambert would have wanted competition for them anyway, which means some of his budget would have been spent on those positions, now he can just bring in one top quality player in each position using his budget plus their wages. It starts to get very complicated.the way I see it:GK: RuddDR: SpillaneDC: DohertyDC: NelsonDL: DruryDMC: RussellMC: LappinMC: SmithAMC: HoolahanST: MartinST: HoltThe positions here which are definitely not top 6 quality are GK, Doherty, Russell, Lapin. That''s not to say there aren''t still weak links, but they''re links which matter less. If you have a team of top 6 players you''ll go up in the top 2 if you see what I mean? For me, some of the budget needs to be spent on 2 midfielders and a centre back regardless of whether they stay. Much better to get rid and have more money to do it with

[bjg123 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"][quote user="AndyCanary"][quote user="bjg123"]20-30k sounds about right, a lot of guesswork involved. 20k was my very lowest estimate, so used it to be conservative. Either way it''s £1-1.5m saved.[/quote]So lets say it''s £1.5m saved..... we need to find 2 players (at least) who are better than Russell and Doc who will accepts wages of the same rough amount or less. Perhaps in a worst case scenario they''d need more splitting the money saved from Cureton.That''s fine, but you''re forgetting transfer fees. Unless you''re hoping we pick up some free transfers which begs the question why are they not being retained by their club?[/quote]because they have better offers, or want to move, or the clubs can''t afford them...[/quote]Or aren''t good enough for the Premiership. There are tonnes of reasons for leaving which aren''t because they''re not good enough for Norwich

[AndyCanary 0]

[quote user="bjg123"]That''s assuming they need directly replacing - which they don''t, Doherty is relatively expendable. We have Nelson and Askou, who are at least as good, and Whitbread who is unproven. The new centre back need not be a starting 11 player, so could be a young freebie on low wages, freeing up money to be spent elsewhere. Rusty also doesn''t neccessarily need a direct replacement. If we stick with the diamond Hughes or Smith may well prove good enough to play the role, with the other on the right. [/quote]Eh? you''re talking like you haven''t seen any games.... have you?Doherty has been by far the most consistently solid this year. Nelson has come on leaps and bounds and wasn''t far off Doc by the end of the season. Askou has had injruies and couldn''t push his way back in front of either Nelson or Doc, and Whitbread is supposed to be great when each time I''ve seen him I''ve seen a very rusty player with glimpses of average quality.In this last season if Doherty had been lost it would have meant an injury off between Askou and Whitbread and if they were both out then.. Spillane who again has looked very average, with long glimpses of being poor.How many games this season were we under constant quality pressure.. Leeds home, Charlton away, we held on.. where would we be now if we hadn''t?I''m not saying we won''t bring in some quality to replace the outgoers.. I am saying that it''s unlikely we''ll not be out of pocket doing so.

[First Wizard 0]

I trust in Lambert......................next.

[bjg123 0]

[quote user="AndyCanary"]Eh? you''re talking like you haven''t seen any games.... have you?Doherty has been by far the most consistently solid this year. Nelson has come on leaps and bounds and wasn''t far off Doc by the end of the season. Askou has had injruies and couldn''t push his way back in front of either Nelson or Doc, and Whitbread is supposed to be great when each time I''ve seen him I''ve seen a very rusty player with glimpses of average quality.In this last season if Doherty had been lost it would have meant an injury off between Askou and Whitbread and if they were both out then.. Spillane who again has looked very average, with long glimpses of being poor.How many games this season were we under constant quality pressure.. Leeds home, Charlton away, we held on.. where would we be now if we hadn''t?I''m not saying we won''t bring in some quality to replace the outgoers.. I am saying that it''s unlikely we''ll not be out of pocket doing so.[/quote]Thought Nelson looked the better player towards the end of the season - but much of a muchness. I''ve seen Doherty play in the championship. He''s only good enough for a bottom half team - any higher and he''s the weak link. Some players perform remarkably differently against different levels of opposition, some don''t. I think Doherty is one of these players, he''ll struggle a lot against top championship sides, whereas someone who''s no better in League 1 may be better at that level. We''ll be "out of pocket" in a loose sense, but not really, because if we''re aiming for top 6, we''d need a new centre back. We''re less out of pocket if we release Doherty, if you take that to be true. If you think Doherty is good enough for a top 6 team then keep him, or if we''re not seriously aiming for top 6. This is a positive move in my book, either we''re looking to sign quality, or we''re properly up shitcreek and releasing whoever we can to save money, I''d say the former is more likely.Leeds and Charlton are NOT quality sides, they are very good League 1 sides, bottom half (at best) Championship sides, so being good against them proves naff all. Doherty IS good enough against lower champ opposition in my book, but he ISN''T against anyone better. If we want to be the someone better, we get rid and use the money saved to replace him, plus if we need to a much smaller part of the transfer budget than if we kept him and still brought in a new player.

[AndyCanary 0]

[quote user="bjg123"]Thought Nelson looked the better player towards the end of the season - but much of a muchness. I''ve seen Doherty play in the championship. He''s only good enough for a bottom half team - any higher and he''s the weak link. Some players perform remarkably differently against different levels of opposition, some don''t. I think Doherty is one of these players, he''ll struggle a lot against top championship sides, whereas someone who''s no better in League 1 may be better at that level. We''ll be "out of pocket" in a loose sense, but not really, because if we''re aiming for top 6, we''d need a new centre back. We''re less out of pocket if we release Doherty, if you take that to be true. If you think Doherty is good enough for a top 6 team then keep him, or if we''re not seriously aiming for top 6. This is a positive move in my book, either we''re looking to sign quality, or we''re properly up shitcreek and releasing whoever we can to save money, I''d say the former is more likely.Leeds and Charlton are NOT quality sides, they are very good League 1 sides, bottom half (at best) Championship sides, so being good against them proves naff all. Doherty IS good enough against lower champ opposition in my book, but he ISN''T against anyone better. If we want to be the someone better, we get rid and use the money saved to replace him, plus if we need to a much smaller part of the transfer budget than if we kept him and still brought in a new player.[/quote]Good points. They make sense. What I would say is I don''t think the Doherty we saw in the Championship is the same one we saw this year. You''d say it''s because the quality of strikers is lower. I''d say I think his style has changed for the better. Although against Carlisle I did see a bit of the ol Doc climbing frame technique sneaking back.With Beckford apparently Premiership/Serie A bound it makes me laugh to think just how well Doc defended him at Carrow Road.My point about Charlton and Leeds was in regard to what you said about Doc being dispensable. If he had been lost at the start of this season I was saying how would we have coped against teams like Leeds & Charlton.

[bjg123 0]

[quote user="AndyCanary"]Good points. They make sense. What I would say is I don''t think the Doherty we saw in the Championship is the same one we saw this year. You''d say it''s because the quality of strikers is lower. I''d say I think his style has changed for the better. Although against Carlisle I did see a bit of the ol Doc climbing frame technique sneaking back.With Beckford apparently Premiership/Serie A bound it makes me laugh to think just how well Doc defended him at Carrow Road.My point about Charlton and Leeds was in regard to what you said about Doc being dispensable. If he had been lost at the start of this season I was saying how would we have coped against teams like Leeds & Charlton.[/quote]I take your point, and I agree we''d have been worse off without him this year. Re: Beckford - think that says more about how overrated Beckford is than Doherty''s ability! Worth noting Askou did an excellent job on him at ER too, I was there and Askou looked very, very good. I think Askou might be one of those players I mentioned earlier who cope equally as well against better opposition (to a point obviously) he looks to have a touch of class Doherty perhaps lacks, and contributes more to attacking play than Doherty (discounting set pieces) in that he plays the ball out of defence well.With Doc I''d say it''s a bit of both, changing technique and lower quality strikers, and the two aren''t mutually exclusive. Doherty has been able to change his style because the strikers are worse. Maybe when he gets back to playing top strikers he/ll revert to his old ways at the first sign of trouble, who knows? I guess we''ll never find out anyway. Here''s hoping Lambert brings in the right man anyway. I will say it''s pretty easy to end up with someone no better than Doherty, but that''s not to say it was the wrong decision to let him go.

[AndyCanary 0]

It''s so refreshing to have a decent discussion with someone on here who raises good point [y].

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Cureton, Doc and Russel are our top 3 earners......

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

[quote user="The Duke"]From what i have been told the reason Doc was released was because he wanted a better deal than we offered. Already being the currant top earner (Believe it or not) he wouldn''t agree to a decent wage. Lambert thought he could use the wages from both Cureton and Doc to better use and the rest as they say is history.

I thought Doc had a blinding season but i trust PL and Doc didn''t really set the world on fire last season at that level. So i can see why this has happened

Will always give the doc a clap if he plays against us.

Any way just what i have been told

OTBC[/quote]

currant top earner eh?

perhaps he was looking for a raisin salary!

[bjg123 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]Cureton, Doc and Russel are our top 3 earners......[/quote]I''d imagine along with Hughes, didn''t he turn down 7k a week with someone to join us I vaguely remember reading?

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Hughes is on 7k a week, just under what Jamie, Russel, and Doc were on.....believe it or not.

[Sligopaddy 0]

[quote user="The Duke"]From what i have been told the reason Doc was released was because he wanted a better deal than we offered. Already being the currant top earner (Believe it or not) he wouldn''t agree to a decent wage. Lambert thought he could use the wages from both Cureton and Doc to better use and the rest as they say is history. I thought Doc had a blinding season but i trust PL and Doc didn''t really set the world on fire last season at that level. So i can see why this has happened Will always give the doc a clap if he plays against us. Any way just what i have been told OTBC[/quote]

 

It is not about money.  You could be asking yourselves whether you released him or he released you?

[Houston Canary 0]

AndyCan''t, you are obsessed with Gary Doherty. OF COURSE TEXAN WHITBREAD LOOKED RUSTY! He hadn''t played much, but he did show positive signs, and he has proven himself with other teams. You sound like you hope he does poorly or gets injured just so you can say, "I told ya so".

You obviously feel Lambert made the wrong decision, but you ridiculed me when I made a comment about being emotionally attached to players the way you are by saying managers must also feel the same way. Little boy, managers are professionals, you and I are not. They (and I) don''t make emotions a part of team selection decisions.

You can rest your case when Doherty shines for another CCC club, but until then, you sound like a baby. Whhhhaaaaaa!

We were under constant pressure at Leeds away, but you didn''t mention that, nor did you mention Colchester or Sunderland at home. In CCC we will be playing teams more like Sunderland than we will Yeovil.

Truth be told, I was a bit surprised Doherty was dumped. If it was me, I''d have given him another shot at the CCC but with a very short leash and a contract that could be yanked (pun intended for you) as soon as it looked like it was not working. However, Lambert deserves every benefit of every doubt right now. Not sure what his background is beyond a few games at Colchester, one of which he used to make Doherty look a fool, but there is little reason to think he and the new leadership of NCFC do not have the Prem in sight. Not even Doherty''s fans think he is going to get us there.

Wages should and will be higher in CCC so I don''t think the wages arguement makes a lot of sense unless Dohertry was still getting paid Prem wages on a League 1 team.

We both love NCFC, I bleed green and yellow, I bore people who don''t have a clue about NCFC when I get talking about it, so let''s keep that in mind. We both want the same thing, ultimately!