Brentford not happy with away ticket allocation

[TheFineCity 0]

http://www.bias.org.uk/news_story.php?id=395_0http://www.griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77751Seemed to be annoyed that they are only getting 900 tickets and they want 1400 and appear to be trying to pin the blame onto us.

[Forever Norwich 0]

What is the bet that they will sing ''Mcnally what a w*nker''

[The Walking Man 13]

Trouble is the blame would lie with their board/commercial department, if they had of asked us for me  tickets we would have HAD to given them some more, but it looks like they weren''t confident of selling them all so asked for a reduced allocation. The difference with Colchester is that they technically didn''t have to give us more tickets because we already received more than the % stipulated by league rules, it''s not our fault that Col Who are a tin pot club who can''t cope with our large away following.

[TheFineCity 0]

[quote user="The Walking Man walking to Yeovil"]

Trouble is the blame would lie with their board/commercial department, if they had of asked us for me  tickets we would have HAD to given them some more, but it looks like they weren''t confident of selling them all so asked for a reduced allocation.

[/quote]I agree completely. They appear to be arguing semantics regarding what the word ''allocate'' in our customer charter means. As far as I understand it and according to football league rules (although I may be wrong) you have to offer teams a certain percentage of your ground, not set aside a certain percentage of your ground. So after they were offered 2000 tickets and only took 900, their ends any obligation on our part regarding the rest of the 1100 tickets going to them.

[Lambo 0]

Don''t quite understand why they''re moaning about us... Seems to me that we offered them the required amount of seats and they told us how many they want.

Surely not our fault??

[NCFC Sinky 0]

I don''t see why they moaning they won''t need 1400 if anything they''ll sell about 750 and we''ll sell the other half to norwich supporters i mean how many did they bring to thepaint pot trophy although first round they bought want 100 we still got more fans in than they could 900 is more than enough for them its the same as we''re getting for brighton

[Arthur Whittle 0]

We dont know the ins and outs of this.

Perhaps there has been a claim down there, that brentford asked for more tickets but were turned down? If that was the case it makes us look very double standards.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Before anyone corrects me, the fa cup you have to give a certain percentage, the league though is different, eg. Man Utd Only gave a rival club last year 1500 tickets, now 1500 from a 75,000 stadium?.......you work out the math....there is no percentage a club has to give.

[GMF 754]

Looking at our Club website Brentford originally asked for 900 seats and only requested the addtional 500 seats yesterday.

[jammis 0]

Six of one, half a dozzen of the other. According to the Bees website they were originally allocated 1,400 tickets which was reduced to 900. Our club say they were originally allocated 900, and they then asked for 1,400 on Wednesday. Someone is telling fibs, god knows who.

I am impressed by the clubs change in attitude this season, no longer the softly, softly approach of the past, we now seem to be showing a bit of a mean streak both on and off the pitch. Just what we needed.

[dhickl 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]We dont know the ins and outs of this. Perhaps there has been a claim down there, that brentford asked for more tickets but were turned down? If that was the case it makes us look very double standards.[/quote]The problem is that on Wednesday Brentford asked for more tickets, and were told by Norwich that it''s too late, we have already sold the ones you didn''t want to the home fans.  The thing that is annoying the Brentford fans is that Brentford put on their website that they will have 1400, before they made the request and were turned away by Norwich.  They have now taken it off their website, but the Brentford fans are now blaming City for not giving them the tickets.

As already mentioned, when the tickets were released, Brentford decided not to take their full allocation.  This then meant that City could sell the rest.  Brentford (who usual sell just under 50% of their capacity) probably aren''t used to sell outs and would have been surprised that Norwich (who usually sell about 94% of theirs) managed to sell the rest.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Well my friend claims Brentford asked for the extra 500 last fiday.......so who knows???

[dreamteam 0]

This from Brentwood site.

Brentford Supporters Stitched-Up Over Tickets by Norwich FC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brentford supporters are embroiled in a ticket stitch-up ahead of the match at Carrow Road this coming Saturday. It seems that, like other ex-Premiership clubs in the past, Norwich believes that it is their right to ride roughshod over supporters of other lower-league clubs.

GPG Towers understands that Norwich has unilaterally slashed Brentford supporters'' ticket allocation from 2000 to 1400 to 900 in order to accommodate their own supporters in seats that rightfully belong to those backing the away team. We further understand that Football League rules dictate that Brentford supporters are fully-entitled to 2,000 places in the away end.

Norwich''s version of events was placed on their website last night and reads:

Quote:

The Canaries agreed an away allocation of 900 for the game with the London club. Although Brentford made an eleventh hour request yesterday (Wednesday) to increase their allocation to 1,400, unfortunately due to the amount of tickets already sold in home areas we were unable to increase their agreed number of tickets and, therefore, the allocation for Bees supporters will remain at the agreed figure of 900.

If Brentford agreed to 900 tickets and only asked for an increased allocation to 1400 on Wednesday morning that was refused then why did BFC say that 1400 tickets would be available on their website? (the statement was that 1000 tickets would be available to Bees fans on the day plus whatever was left over from the 400 sent to Griffin Park). This information remained on the BFC website until it was removed yesterday morning (Thursday).

We at GPG Towers would like Norwich City FC to clarify when and with whom the figure of 900 was agreed with BFC. We would also like Norwich City FC to clarify just where these "home areas" are considering that that the away area accommodates 2,000 fans. Norwich City should also come clean about when they started selling tickets in the away end to their own supporters.

Further Norwich City''s own Customer Charter states:

Quote:

ACCOMODATING (sic) AWAY SUPPORTERS

The Club recognises that it is appropriate for away supporters to be able to attend any match at Carrow Road and will use its best endeavours to prevent a complete restriction being imposed upon visiting supporters.

The Club will allocate a minimum of 2000 seats for Football League matches for away supporters unless it receives contrary instructions from the Police or Norfolk County Council Safety Advisory Group.

For F.A. Premier League matches, the Club will allocate 10% of its ground capacity to visiting clubs, with a minimum of 10% of the Club''s disabled capacity for disabled visiting supporters.

Away supporters will pay the same prices as casual home supporters occupying equivalent seats in that stand.

(our emphasis)

From our reading here at GPG Towers, any communication from BFC has no bearing on the allocation - Norwich City promise to keep 2,000 tickets for away supporters. If Norwich has received instructions from the police or the Norfolk County Council Safety Advisory Group then it must be published for all to see. In the absence of such instructions, Norwich City are in clear breach of their own Customer Charter and the Football League rules both in relation to following their Customer Charter and the rules governing away ticketing.

BIAS, the independent Brentford supporters'' association has already emailed the Norwich City CEO which you can read about another Norwich ticket stitch-up regarding kids'' tickets.

Finally, GPG Towers strongly recommends that everyone that has firm travel plans to purchase tickets before travelling. Either from the Brentford FC (0845 3456 442 (option 4)), or Norwich FC (0844 826 1902)

Norwich City are "urging Bees supporters not to travel without a ticket on the day and to book in advance to avoid disappointment". Which, again, is rather strange considering that they believe 900 tickets to be perfectly adequate to accommodate Brentford supporters.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

So is there any club in this division we haven''t upset yet?

[morty 0]

Are they under the impression that there is a completely separate stand for away fans? It seems like it from what they are saying.Surely they realise we sell our ground out on a regular basis and making a request like this three days before the match is unreasonable?Or is this just another case of a club trying to demonise us because we''re the "big boys"?The sooner we''re out of this shitpot league the better!!

[dreamteam 0]

Yes , some of them do seem to think that there is an "away end" and that they should have all the seats in it even if they cant sell them.

[morty 0]

[quote user="dreamteam"]Yes , some of them do seem to think that there is an "away end" and that they should have all the seats in it even if they cant sell them.[/quote]Well when they come to the ground, and see our arrangements for away fans all should become clear.I really am getting bored of these whining smaller clubs.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Thee is not an away "stand" and I dont get the impression thats what they are suggesting, they know there is not one as they were here in the Paint trophy earlier in the season. What there is though is an away "section" that they have every right to gain tickets for. Lets be honest and not biased, if the roles were reversed we would be calling them every name under the sun.

[dreamteam 0]

Many of their fans seem to think that if a club can accomodate 2,000 away fans, then the home club have no right to sell them to home fans even if the away club dont want them.

[Matt Juler 153]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]Thee is not an away "stand" and I dont get the impression thats what they are suggesting, they know there is not one as they were here in the Paint trophy earlier in the season. What there is though is an away "section" that they have every right to gain tickets for. Lets be honest and not biased, if the roles were reversed we would be calling them every name under the sun.[/quote]But Norwich wouldn''t get themselves into this situation. Brentford assumed that the tickets not sold in advance would be available on the day (or nearer the day), thinking that we keep the same allocated area available for away fans regardless of the initial allocation.  At almost all other grounds in this league that is the case as supply no where near matches demand, but for us it''s very different.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]Thee is not an away "stand" and I dont get the impression thats what they are suggesting, they know there is not one as they were here in the Paint trophy earlier in the season. What there is though is an away "section" that they have every right to gain tickets for. Lets be honest and not biased, if the roles were reversed we would be calling them every name under the sun.[/quote]Yes but given unbiased and honest presentation of the facts I like to think that we would be disappointed but accepting.They should have asked for more tickets in the first place, or agreed a date by which they could ask for more. The fact is that clubs like this just aren''t used to dealing in the numbers that we deal in.

[Whats a right winger 0]

My guess on this is that we said you can have the extra 500 but you''ll have to claim them 14 days before the game or we''ll put them on sale.

Having read their message boards part of the problem is a difference in culture. Rightly or wrongly they are used to being able to make up their minds to travel at the last minute & pay on the gate on the day, whereas by necessity we''ve had to get used to buying in advance. One comment I read was "what sort of club sends ALL the away tickets to the away club & doesn''t keep any there to sell on the day"

If we''d been forced to keep the whole potential away section free for all the games this season our average gate would be at least 1000 lower. 1000 x say £12(allow for concessions) x 23 = £276,000. + of course 1000 p***d off fans who couldn''t get in. Sorry Brentford no brainer.

[Guest]

They seem to be suggesting their allocation was "cut" at the last minute, which is clearly a load of bullocks. Block H has been on sale to home fans for over a fortnight and is virtually sold out, no way were they ever having that. For them to have realised this so late is surely their own problem.

[Essex_Canary 6]

A couple of things that distinguishes Carrow Road from Griffin Park is the fact that, as others have said, there is no ''away end''. It can be as small as 150 seats, or as big as 2,000 seats (more for cup games). The complaint of the old South Stand was that the home areas would sell out but the club was powerless to reduce the away allocation and as such the doors under the Jarrold Stand allow for varying sizes of allocations. The second difference is that with 19,900 season ticket holders the home areas are almost guaranteed to sell out (and if there are any spare tickets they''ll be in the corner stands rather than on the side of the pitch).

It also makes me laugh that they are questionning the pricing, yes its kids for a quid - but only in the family areas. The away tickets in the Jarrold Stand are exactly the same price (or even cheaper) as the home tickets in the Jarrold Stand, and considerably cheaper than those in the City Stand!

As for the allocation, the standard proceedure would have suggested the following took place:

- 4-6 weeks before the game Norwich would have been in contact with Brentford regarding ticket allocations

- Norwich would have offered up to 2,000 tickets to Brentford . These tend to be available in 500, 900, 1400 or 2000 seat blocks (depending on where the netting is placed), with the fairly standard clause that if a larger allocation was taken any allocated but unsold would have to be paid for by Brentford. We''ve had it loads of times before, but usually we don''t get to see these decisions because the club figure we are going to sell out whatever we are given. You can only really justify charging for unsold tickets if you would have been able to sell those tickets to home fans - common sense really, why should we miss out on additional income because the away team couldnt sell all their tickets.

- Brentford''s commercial department would have made the decision as to how many they wanted. They''d have weighed up demand (and this would have been before the bad weather so the fact that they didn''t know until Tuesday who they were playing was irrelevant).

- They opted for 900, with Norwich probably giving them the option of 500 extra if they were not sold to home fans. Brentford expected most fans to pay on the day, hence 400 printed tickets were sent to Griffin Park, whilst 500 remained in Norwich to be sold on the day.

- Brentford post on their website that they have 1400 ticket allocation - probably naively not expecting us to sell out the home end

- When the other blocks in the Jarrold Stand were sold out Norwich then put the additional 500 tickets on sale to home fans

- Brentford lost on Tuesday night, realised there might be a bit more interest than they anticipated (despite not having sold out their 900 allocation) and asked for the 500 more

- Norwich said, sorry mate they''ve all gone your too late. You only asked for 900 orginally.

- Brentford realise their cockup and try and make us out to be the baddies, boohoo nasty big club [:''(]

- Brentford fans discover this, read our customer charter and decide their entitled to 2,000 tickets so blame us for not giving them 2,000 tickets (when it was their club who turned down the increased allocation in a commercial decision). If they;d read the charter properly they''d realise that Norwich guarantee to offer an allocation of 2,000 tickets, they don''t guarantee that the away club will accept this allocation given the potential costs. They then write a letter to McNarly, who takes one look at it and throws it in the bin - along with a letter from a Mr R. Cowling of West Ham, oh sorry I meant Colchester [;)].

- Norwich provide written proof from Brentford requesting only 900 tickets

- Brentford fans realise they''ve been misled by their own club, but still blame Norwich for being a nasty big club[:O][:$]

[Big Slob 0]

On the Bias site it says they would sell 2000 tickets, they barely  even get that for there home games, minus away support

[dreamteam 0]

Interestingly on the BFC official site , they say that as at 10am today,

BFC have 140 unsold tickets and NCFC still have 370 unsold for away fans.

Obviously not a hot ticket then.

[Matt Juler 153]

[quote user="Essex_Canary"]

A couple of things that distinguishes Carrow Road from Griffin Park is the fact that, as others have said, there is no ''away end''. It can be as small as 150 seats, or as big as 2,000 seats (more for cup games). The complaint of the old South Stand was that the home areas would sell out but the club was powerless to reduce the away allocation and as such the doors under the Jarrold Stand allow for varying sizes of allocations. The second difference is that with 19,900 season ticket holders the home areas are almost guaranteed to sell out (and if there are any spare tickets they''ll be in the corner stands rather than on the side of the pitch).

It also makes me laugh that they are questionning the pricing, yes its kids for a quid - but only in the family areas. The away tickets in the Jarrold Stand are exactly the same price (or even cheaper) as the home tickets in the Jarrold Stand, and considerably cheaper than those in the City Stand!

As for the allocation, the standard proceedure would have suggested the following took place:

- 4-6 weeks before the game Norwich would have been in contact with Brentford regarding ticket allocations

- Norwich would have offered up to 2,000 tickets to Brentford . These tend to be available in 500, 900, 1400 or 2000 seat blocks (depending on where the netting is placed), with the fairly standard clause that if a larger allocation was taken any allocated but unsold would have to be paid for by Brentford. We''ve had it loads of times before, but usually we don''t get to see these decisions because the club figure we are going to sell out whatever we are given. You can only really justify charging for unsold tickets if you would have been able to sell those tickets to home fans - common sense really, why should we miss out on additional income because the away team couldnt sell all their tickets.

- Brentford''s commercial department would have made the decision as to how many they wanted. They''d have weighed up demand (and this would have been before the bad weather so the fact that they didn''t know until Tuesday who they were playing was irrelevant).

- They opted for 900, with Norwich probably giving them the option of 500 extra if they were not sold to home fans. Brentford expected most fans to pay on the day, hence 400 printed tickets were sent to Griffin Park, whilst 500 remained in Norwich to be sold on the day.

- Brentford post on their website that they have 1400 ticket allocation - probably naively not expecting us to sell out the home end

- When the other blocks in the Jarrold Stand were sold out Norwich then put the additional 500 tickets on sale to home fans

- Brentford lost on Tuesday night, realised there might be a bit more interest than they anticipated (despite not having sold out their 900 allocation) and asked for the 500 more

- Norwich said, sorry mate they''ve all gone your too late. You only asked for 900 orginally.

- Brentford realise their cockup and try and make us out to be the baddies, boohoo nasty big club [:''(]

- Brentford fans discover this, read our customer charter and decide their entitled to 2,000 tickets so blame us for not giving them 2,000 tickets (when it was their club who turned down the increased allocation in a commercial decision). If they;d read the charter properly they''d realise that Norwich guarantee to offer an allocation of 2,000 tickets, they don''t guarantee that the away club will accept this allocation given the potential costs. They then write a letter to McNarly, who takes one look at it and throws it in the bin - along with a letter from a Mr R. Cowling of West Ham, oh sorry I meant Colchester [;)].

- Norwich provide written proof from Brentford requesting only 900 tickets

- Brentford fans realise they''ve been misled by their own club, but still blame Norwich for being a nasty big club[:O][:$]

[/quote]Couldn''t put it any better myself!

[morty 0]

[quote user="dreamteam"]Interestingly on the BFC official site , they say that as at 10am today,

BFC have 140 unsold tickets and NCFC still have 370 unsold for away fans.

Obviously not a hot ticket then.[/quote]I wonder if Brentford pick up the tab if those tickets aren''t sold?

[Essex_Canary 6]

[quote user="Whats a right winger"]Having read their message boards part of the problem is a difference in culture. Rightly or wrongly they are used to being able to make up their minds to travel at the last minute & pay on the gate on the day, whereas by necessity we''ve had to get used to buying in advance. One comment I read was "what sort of club sends ALL the away tickets to the away club & doesn''t keep any there to sell on the day" .[/quote]

The words - hit, the, nail, on, the, & head - spring to mind

[quote user="Whats a right winger"]If we''d been forced to keep the whole potential away section free for all the games this season our average gate would be at least 1000 lower. 1000 x say £12(allow for concessions) x 23 = £276,000. + of course 1000 p***d off fans who couldn''t get in. Sorry Brentford no brainer.[/quote]

Think thats a conservative estimate to say the least, given some clubs have only brought a couple of hundred I''d go for 1200 x £16 (halfway between adult and child ish) x 23 = £450,000ish

[Canary Man of Kent 0]

[quote user="Essex_Canary"]

A couple of things that distinguishes Carrow Road from Griffin Park is the fact that, as others have said, there is no ''away end''. It can be as small as 150 seats, or as big as 2,000 seats (more for cup games). The complaint of the old South Stand was that the home areas would sell out but the club was powerless to reduce the away allocation and as such the doors under the Jarrold Stand allow for varying sizes of allocations. The second difference is that with 19,900 season ticket holders the home areas are almost guaranteed to sell out (and if there are any spare tickets they''ll be in the corner stands rather than on the side of the pitch).

It also makes me laugh that they are questionning the pricing, yes its kids for a quid - but only in the family areas. The away tickets in the Jarrold Stand are exactly the same price (or even cheaper) as the home tickets in the Jarrold Stand, and considerably cheaper than those in the City Stand!

As for the allocation, the standard proceedure would have suggested the following took place:

- 4-6 weeks before the game Norwich would have been in contact with Brentford regarding ticket allocations

- Norwich would have offered up to 2,000 tickets to Brentford . These tend to be available in 500, 900, 1400 or 2000 seat blocks (depending on where the netting is placed), with the fairly standard clause that if a larger allocation was taken any allocated but unsold would have to be paid for by Brentford. We''ve had it loads of times before, but usually we don''t get to see these decisions because the club figure we are going to sell out whatever we are given. You can only really justify charging for unsold tickets if you would have been able to sell those tickets to home fans - common sense really, why should we miss out on additional income because the away team couldnt sell all their tickets.

- Brentford''s commercial department would have made the decision as to how many they wanted. They''d have weighed up demand (and this would have been before the bad weather so the fact that they didn''t know until Tuesday who they were playing was irrelevant).

- They opted for 900, with Norwich probably giving them the option of 500 extra if they were not sold to home fans. Brentford expected most fans to pay on the day, hence 400 printed tickets were sent to Griffin Park, whilst 500 remained in Norwich to be sold on the day.

- Brentford post on their website that they have 1400 ticket allocation - probably naively not expecting us to sell out the home end

- When the other blocks in the Jarrold Stand were sold out Norwich then put the additional 500 tickets on sale to home fans

- Brentford lost on Tuesday night, realised there might be a bit more interest than they anticipated (despite not having sold out their 900 allocation) and asked for the 500 more

- Norwich said, sorry mate they''ve all gone your too late. You only asked for 900 orginally.

- Brentford realise their cockup and try and make us out to be the baddies, boohoo nasty big club [:''(]

- Brentford fans discover this, read our customer charter and decide their entitled to 2,000 tickets so blame us for not giving them 2,000 tickets (when it was their club who turned down the increased allocation in a commercial decision). If they;d read the charter properly they''d realise that Norwich guarantee to offer an allocation of 2,000 tickets, they don''t guarantee that the away club will accept this allocation given the potential costs. They then write a letter to McNarly, who takes one look at it and throws it in the bin - along with a letter from a Mr R. Cowling of West Ham, oh sorry I meant Colchester [;)].

- Norwich provide written proof from Brentford requesting only 900 tickets

- Brentford fans realise they''ve been misled by their own club, but still blame Norwich for being a nasty big club[:O][:$]

[/quote]

 

Excellent excellent post. Well done!

Someone needs to give this to the Brentford fans, unfortunately, it''s their club that has dropped a bollock (if anyone has that is, I wouldn''t be surprised if less than 900 turn up anyway).