Andy Bishop still training with Bury

[Camuldonum 0]

http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/

[KeelansGlove 0]

Thanks Cam you really do make this board worth viewing, trawling up all this stuff and saving us having to waste even more time doing it.

I salute you !

[ricardo 7,416]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[/quote]

Like Hopefully Dean Ashton would of stayed at Crewe

Or Hopefully Efan Ekoku would of stayed at Bournemouth

get the point im trying to make Ricardo?

jas :)

[Pinks 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[/quote]

Like Hopefully Dean Ashton would of stayed at Crewe

Or Hopefully Efan Ekoku would of stayed at Bournemouth

get the point im trying to make Ricardo?

jas :)

[/quote]

..Or Hopefully Darren Beckford would of stayed at Post Vale[:S]

[Syteanric 1]

are they managed by Jess the Cat Ween? ;)

jas :)

[Pinks 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

are they managed by Jess the Cat Ween? ;)

jas :)

[/quote]

 Yes they are

[Pinks 0]

[quote user="WEEN_NASTY"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

are they managed by Jess the Cat Ween? ;)

jas :)

[/quote]

 Yes they are

[/quote]

Pesky sixth finger. Argghh me secrets out. I''m a binner

[Stone 0]

Did it not used to be the case that footballers often started at a lower level and having proved themselves were often given the chance to step up and improve themselves at a higher level? 

 

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Stone"]

Did it not used to be the case that footballers often started at a lower level and having proved themselves were often given the chance to step up and improve themselves at a higher level? 

 

[/quote]

Yes, that was the system long before Academies were invented or even thought of.  But football was a different game then and, in my view, more even betweeen Divisions than it is today.  There were high quality amateur teams from which the professional clubs regularly recruited - in the north Crook Town and Bishop Auckland and in the south such famous (at the time) as Walthamstow Avenue and even Harwich & Parkeston were highly rated at one time.  The gulf in terms of pace and skill between the Championship and League Two is wider than it has ever been (my opinion) and while there is no reason why a player cannot make the step up there is no guarantee that he will.  In the old days there was often a progression from Division 3 to Division 2 so that a major leap was not quite as traumatic.

In the days we are talking about there were no substitutes so there was no such thing as a bench warmer.  You either got a game - or you didn''t get on at all.  Or you got stuck in the Reserves. 

Now people are paying big money for people who have hardly kicked a ball in competitive matches.  It really was a different era.

But many great players indeed came up through the old fashioned system and there is little doubt in my mind that there will somewhere be a hidden gem that has slipped under the radar.  The problem with the modern system is that it is geared totally to youth and so if a player hasn''t appeared on this radar by about the age of 14 there is a very real risk, in my view, of some good players escaping attention.  Some players don''t develop their skills until they are older than that.

[Stone 0]

Cam, you raise some really valid points. I just dislike the way that players are rubbished before being given the opportunity to prove themselves. There are players, like you say, who may slip under the radar and although fewer players do progess at a higher level having plyed their trade within more humble surroundings there are always a few being fed through.

Michael Kightly is probably a good example but in a nod of agreement I''m struggling to think of others have made a real impact in the championship.

[Thecanaryfan 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[/quote]

I think this is the first time I actually disagree with you Ricardo! ROEDER SIGN BISHOP NOW!!!!!!!

[TheCardinal 0]

[quote user="thecanaryfan"][quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[/quote]

I think this is the first time I actually disagree with you Ricardo! ROEDER SIGN BISHOP NOW!!!!!!!

[/quote]

See, I''m fence sitting on this one; on the one hand, I like the lad. Think he''s a class act whenever I''ve seen him. Strong on and off the ball. But is he up to the Championship? And would he be available at a price that that gamble is not an unreasonable one?

Not sure, to be honest. Not sure.

[ricardo 7,416]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[/quote]

Like Hopefully Dean Ashton would of stayed at Crewe

Or Hopefully Efan Ekoku would of stayed at Bournemouth

get the point im trying to make Ricardo?

jas :)

[/quote]

Both those you mention were quite clearly different class before we bought them.

I am quite confident that Bishop never will be in that class. He is a tin pot, tuppeny halfpenny 3rd rate trundler.

That is the point that I am trying to make.

[TheCardinal 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[/quote]

Like Hopefully Dean Ashton would of stayed at Crewe

Or Hopefully Efan Ekoku would of stayed at Bournemouth

get the point im trying to make Ricardo?

jas :)

[/quote]

Both those you mention were quite clearly different class before we bought them.

I am quite confident that Bishop never will be in that class. He is a tin pot, tuppeny halfpenny 3rd rate trundler.

That is the point that I am trying to make.

[/quote]

Could you perhaps explain your clearly rational, considered and expert opinion given above?

[Joe Strummer R.I.P. 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[/quote]

Like Hopefully Dean Ashton would of stayed at Crewe

Or Hopefully Efan Ekoku would of stayed at Bournemouth

get the point im trying to make Ricardo?

jas :)

[/quote]

Both those you mention were quite clearly different class before we bought them.

I am quite confident that Bishop never will be in that class. He is a tin pot, tuppeny halfpenny 3rd rate trundler.

That is the point that I am trying to make.

[/quote]

So what does that make the fine Norwich defence that he scored 2 goals against on the way to dumping us out of the FA Cup last season?

[ricardo 7,416]

[quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[/quote]

Like Hopefully Dean Ashton would of stayed at Crewe

Or Hopefully Efan Ekoku would of stayed at Bournemouth

get the point im trying to make Ricardo?

jas :)

[/quote]

Both those you mention were quite clearly different class before we bought them.

I am quite confident that Bishop never will be in that class. He is a tin pot, tuppeny halfpenny 3rd rate trundler.

That is the point that I am trying to make.

[/quote]

Could you perhaps explain your clearly rational, considered and expert opinion given above?

[/quote]

Please note the length of the queue for his signature.

[ricardo 7,416]

[quote user="Joe Strummer R.I.P."][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]http://www.burytimes.co.uk/shakersnews/3609802.We_can_get_better_promises_Knill/[/quote]

Hopefully he will stay there.

[/quote]

Like Hopefully Dean Ashton would of stayed at Crewe

Or Hopefully Efan Ekoku would of stayed at Bournemouth

get the point im trying to make Ricardo?

jas :)

[/quote]

Both those you mention were quite clearly different class before we bought them.

I am quite confident that Bishop never will be in that class. He is a tin pot, tuppeny halfpenny 3rd rate trundler.

That is the point that I am trying to make.

[/quote]

So what does that make the fine Norwich defence that he scored 2 goals against on the way to dumping us out of the FA Cup last season?

[/quote]

I remember us buying several players over the years who exelled in one off games against us.

Edwards and Richards of Swindon and George Waites of Orient to name but 3 off the top of my head.

Buying someone from a lower league is always chancey and when nobody else is competing for their signatures it ought to tell you something.

[nutty nigel 7,649]

[quote user="ricardo"]

Please note the length of the queue for his signature.

[/quote]

That''s a weak argument, what was the queue for David Cross''s signature?

But for what it''s worth I agree with you to a certain extent. It seems that not many people will accept how much football has changed since the days of David Cross and Effan Ekoku. The old 4th division to the Premier and even the Championship is wider. And a more valid blind argument would be to say not many players make that leap these days.

 

[ricardo 7,416]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="ricardo"]

Please note the length of the queue for his signature.

[/quote]

That''s a weak argument, what was the queue for David Cross''s signature?

But for what it''s worth I agree with you to a certain extent. It seems that not many people will accept how much football has changed since the days of David Cross and Effan Ekoku. The old 4th division to the Premier and even the Championship is wider. And a more valid blind argument would be to say not many players make that leap these days.

 

[/quote]

Well thats a novelty Nigel.

I still think that even David Cross was generally held in higher esteem than Mr. Bishop. Also I believe Cross was a very promising 20 year old when we bought him in October ''71 not an exposed 25 year old with a not very impressive record in the lower leagues..

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Stone"]

Cam, you raise some really valid points. I just dislike the way that players are rubbished before being given the opportunity to prove themselves. There are players, like you say, who may slip under the radar and although fewer players do progess at a higher level having plyed their trade within more humble surroundings there are always a few being fed through.

Michael Kightly is probably a good example but in a nod of agreement I''m struggling to think of others have made a real impact in the championship.

[/quote]

One other example is George Elekobi, now with 17 starts at Wolves since leaving Col U in January, and so far as I can see doing okay.  He was completely under the radar because he came to England from  Cameroon  and we spotted him in his second season with Dulwich Hamlet!  Good scouting spot by someone.

Lots of young people have come in from Eastern Europe - one Lincoln are trying to sign had been cutting cabbages for Sainsbury.  I am sure a lot of them, perhaps the vast majority, will not be up to it but I would put money on the fact that there is the odd gem out there - there always has been and I guess there always will be.  We''ve just signed a local lad from Grantham Town - all of £3000 worth and people say he looks a very useful player. 

And don''t forget that young players sometimes give up on their ambition after being turned down by pro clubs - the classic example is one Huckerby.  He was on the point of giving up pro ambitions when Lincoln  signed him - turned down by Forest and County and (local legend) Retford Town!  There we are then...............

Back in the old days Neville Southall, a great keeper for many years, was spotted playing for the local Council side in a Wednesday league.  He worked for them as a dustman - a real binner in fact!  He was certainly under the radar and given Nev''s size that is surprising[;)]

[Stevie Wonder 0]

I have to say that I thought Bishop was one of the most impressive strikers I saw at Carrow Road last season.

If we could get him for say £250/£300K then he won''t be too much of a gamble. He would tide us over until Iversen arrived and at least he would cope with the physical demands of this league - something that Koroma & Lupoli may struggle with.