little chat with doncaster after game

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Fat Strawberry"][quote user="rossco2121"]

I remember something else he said. My mate matty that was with me said to him " we cant win anything with loan players" to which he also made a good point.... " what is the difference of having fozzy on a 1 year deal and lupoli on a 1 year deal....." good point I think!

[/quote]

If Doncaster doesn''t understand the difference we''re in even more trouble than I thought.

Because Fozzy is our player we have the option whether to offer him another contract.  The ball''s in our court.  We have no control over what happens to Lupoli when the year is up. 

Excessive reliance on loan players means, among other things, that we will find it very difficult to retain enough decent players from one season to the next to  build a promotion challenging squad.  It was acceptable last season (just about) as a short term fix to keep us up, but as a long term strategy it''s utter bo***cks. 

 

Sorry that is nonsense!!  We can offer a contract to whomsoever we wish but whether at the the end of a contract or a loan, they are able to accept ofr walk away.  Of course, if a loanee is offered a contract then we have to agree terms with the Club but these days if a player wants to move then they will.  If Lupoli decides he wants to stay here, a deal will be done and Fozzy wants to go then we are powerless.

 

[/quote]

[Ian 1,129]

Exactly FS - I mean look at Ronaldo at Man Utd... If they can''t keep hold of a player, then what other clubs would be able to?

[canary cherub 1]

I''m not against loan players per se.  But an excessive number causes all sorts of problems. 

Quite apart from the fact that we stand a better chance of retaining contracted players (I think that''s undeniable - where are Taylor, Pearce and Evans when we need them?) they''re here for experience.  That means a) they lack experience, and b) the loan clubs will naturally expect them to play a certain number of games.  Two or three loanees, shouldn''t be a problem.  Five or six and it starts to present selection dilemmas for Glenn Roeder.  I''d prefer our team selection to be free from outside influences, and that''s putting it mildly.

Over reliance on loanees also makes us a hostage to fortune.  For instance, with seven subs in the Prem now it could become more difficult to attract loanees, and what if the football authorities change the rules on loan players, as has been the case several times in recent years?

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="Fat Strawberry"][quote user="rossco2121"]

I remember something else he said. My mate matty that was with me said to him " we cant win anything with loan players" to which he also made a good point.... " what is the difference of having fozzy on a 1 year deal and lupoli on a 1 year deal....." good point I think!

[/quote]

If Doncaster doesn''t understand the difference we''re in even more trouble than I thought.

Because Fozzy is our player we have the option whether to offer him another contract.  The ball''s in our court.  We have no control over what happens to Lupoli when the year is up. 

Excessive reliance on loan players means, among other things, that we will find it very difficult to retain enough decent players from one season to the next to  build a promotion challenging squad.  It was acceptable last season (just about) as a short term fix to keep us up, but as a long term strategy it''s utter bo***cks. 

 

Sorry that is nonsense!!  We can offer a contract to whomsoever we wish but whether at the the end of a contract or a loan, they are able to accept ofr walk away.  Of course, if a loanee is offered a contract then we have to agree terms with the Club but these days if a player wants to move then they will.  If Lupoli decides he wants to stay here, a deal will be done and Fozzy wants to go then we are powerless.

[/quote][/quote]

Thanks for pointing that out Cambridge Canary, although you know that will make Fat Strawberry a little red in the face, but she is green up top.

[canary cherub 1]

Yankee I really thought it would be stating the bleeding obvious to other football-minded folk to point out that having players on contract doesn''t guarantee they will stay.  Of course it doesn''t.  What I meant was that if the ball is in our court we have a better chance of retaining them.  You may disagree.

 

 

 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Over reliance on loanees also makes us a hostage to fortune.  For instance, with seven subs in the Prem now it could become more difficult to attract loanees[/quote]

Just as well we''ve already got 5 loans in then, as it sounds as if the rest of this league might struggle to get them. 

The main benefit of the loan system as it stands is that it gives you access to a quality of player you otherwise wouldn''t get for the same money.  Would 300k plus wages get you a championship equivelent of Ryan Bertrand from Southampton, say ?

 

[Herb 0]

[quote user="rossco2121"]

when speaking about speculation regarding steve howard and the did we didnt we put a bid in..he called it " garbage" then said why would we pay that kind of money for someone of his age blah blah blah

then i asked if the shola ameobi deal was dead in the water and commenting that the reported figure of £3m is a lot on money... he strongly hinted on a possible loan deal!.

I also picked up on the defending during the colchester game was not acceptable... and that owosuzi was pretty poor at right back... to which he was supprised that i thought this.... then we talked about the line up for coventry..... they way he was talking it would be bertrand left back and owosuzi right back.... to that i said " nah semi should be there... def better... he then told me he is more of a owusuzi fan. he also hinted koroma could make an appearence!?!?

for all those worrying that we signed david bell injured... he said they pushed him to the limit on his medical.... and that is certainly wasnt a risk... he was proper glad to have him here......

 

[/quote]Didn''t realise Doncaster was manager now, when did we get rid of Roeder?

[Evil Monkey 52]

I think I walked past you Rossco2121, saw Doomy engaged in chatter with

two blokes by the Infill, only really recall because I walked past and

said "Hallooo Neil" in a "Barry"-type voice... don''t know why, just

felt like it...

Ps, don''t think we can put too much faith in Doomy''s thoughts on the selection, he was probably just speaking as a fan...

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="Fat Strawberry"][quote user="rossco2121"]

I remember something else he said. My mate matty that was with me said to him " we cant win anything with loan players" to which he also made a good point.... " what is the difference of having fozzy on a 1 year deal and lupoli on a 1 year deal....." good point I think!

[/quote]

If Doncaster doesn''t understand the difference we''re in even more trouble than I thought.

Because Fozzy is our player we have the option whether to offer him another contract.  The ball''s in our court.  We have no control over what happens to Lupoli when the year is up. 

Excessive reliance on loan players means, among other things, that we will find it very difficult to retain enough decent players from one season to the next to  build a promotion challenging squad.  It was acceptable last season (just about) as a short term fix to keep us up, but as a long term strategy it''s utter bo***cks. 

 

Sorry that is nonsense!!  We can offer a contract to whomsoever we wish but whether at the the end of a contract or a loan, they are able to accept ofr walk away.  Of course, if a loanee is offered a contract then we have to agree terms with the Club but these days if a player wants to move then they will.  If Lupoli decides he wants to stay here, a deal will be done and Fozzy wants to go then we are powerless.

 [/quote][/quote]

It all depends on the people involved. Allegedly Taylor wanted to stay at Norwich, having been told he played no part in Brum''s future, but Brum insisted on him going back. There are no guarantees that if Lipoli wants to stay, Fiorentina will sell him, or that (especially if he is a success here) we can afford him. Conversely, we had Ashton on a long term contract but when he wanted to go, off he went. We had him on a perm for a year. But the profit was nice.

Players hold a lot of power these days, but clubs still hold a contract and can enforce it if they wish. 

Loans have positives and negatives (as discussed on the other thread). With our money, and with the number of players required this summer, what other realistic choice is there?

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Over reliance on loanees also makes us a hostage to fortune.  For instance, with seven subs in the Prem now it could become more difficult to attract loanees[/quote]

Just as well we''ve already got 5 loans in then, as it sounds as if the rest of this league might struggle to get them. 

The main benefit of the loan system as it stands is that it gives you access to a quality of player you otherwise wouldn''t get for the same money.  Would 300k plus wages get you a championship equivelent of Ryan Bertrand from Southampton, say ?

[/quote]

Two or three loanees is fine.  Five or six is not fine except as a short term crisis measure, for the reasons stated previously.  

 

[Nishclishbang 0]

Jesus, give the guy a break Barclay Boy. This Forum is interesting because of the opinions of those participating, but the real gems are the revealing insights into the club - the teaboy who saw someone in the cafe etc -and sure most tend not to come off, but it doesn''t mean they are made up.  I''d rather search for one of those gems, then hear people spouting off about the merits of the Cullum deal, or we''ll finish 9th or 12th this year.  And what do you want from Doncaster ? Are you surprised he''s got an opinion on players ? And isn''t a good thing that he is approachable ? I don''t think there is any doubt he isn''t giving anything potentially harmful away.