HUmble Pie

[Ex-greenoschin 0]

Humble pie any one???!!! This is not being smug as I''m as p***ed off as every one but it does throw a different light on proceedings and goes to show it wasn''t simply a case of Delia digging her heels in.

Call to trust board after talks collapse

STEVE DOWNES

12 July 2008

Norwich City''s fans were last night urged to put their trust in Delia Smith and the other board members after being left devastated by the collapse of talks over a £20m takeover.

Hopes of billionaire Peter Cullum financing a tilt at the top flight were dashed when the club and the wealthy businessman issued a joint statement saying talks had been “terminated with immediate effect”.

But, with some fans beginning to turn on joint majority shareholders Delia and her husband Michael Wynn Jones for a perceived lack of ambition, City chief executive Neil Doncaster strongly defended the couple.

He said: “Delia and Michael have only the very best interests of the club at heart and I hope sincerely that the supporters will understand how much they''ve tried to do to bring new cash into the club.”

Mr Doncaster added that all of the board had worked “tirelessly” to construct a deal with Mr Cullum, and said: “All of the board want only the very best for the club and its marvellous supporters, and will continue to welcome and actively seek new investment to give Glenn Roeder and his coaching staff the best possible chance of competing at the right end of the division this season.”

The comments came as the EDP discovered new details about the stop-start negotiations, which broke off in October when Mr Cullum first indicated he wanted to put in £20m to buy new players and assume control of the club.

It is understood that Mr Cullum never made a formal offer to the board, but did indicate that he wanted his £20m to buy complete control - and without that control he would not put in a penny.

The proposal did not change throughout Thursday''s brief and fruitless talks.

It is understood the board attempted to explore a number of alternative ways forward for Mr Cullum, including simple investment and ways of purchasing control while still having £20m to give to Glenn Roeder for players.

But all of the avenues would have meant the executive chairman of Towergate having to find more millions to buy shares and pay off club debts.

One of the big stumbling blocks is the £15m debt.

While Mr Cullum was confident he could simply renegotiate the deal and take it on, it is believed that Axa, which financed £12m of the total sum, would insist on complete repayment of its share at any change of club ownership.

Sources close to the club said there was “no way” Mr Cullum would be able to buy Norwich City for £20m.

The saga hit the headlines last week when the EDP exclusively revealed that Mr Cullum had made his October offer, and that he wanted to reopen talks.

He said he wanted Delia to remain as an “icon and figurehead” and was keen to have a supporter and his own representatives on the board.

Britain''s 40th richest man was initially ruled offside by the board, which said his £20m would have to be topped up to at least £56m to buy up the shares at £30 each, settle the debts and pay off directors'' loans.

Mr Cullum disputed the figures and, after a few days of claim and counter claim, the EDP revealed that City''s main sponsor Norwich Union had brokered a new round of talks in an effort to end the impasse.

Now the impasse appears permanent after dialogue broke down again.

The EDP tried to contact Mr Cullum with a series of questions about the latest twist in the tale, but he refused to comment.

Among the questions asked were:

1. Why did the talks break down?

2. Did you improve the £20m offer? How?

3. If not, why not?

4. The fans see a man with a lot of money. They may ask why you didn''t simply come up with what it takes to control the club and move it forward? So why not?

5. Were any strings attached to your offer(s)?

6. Will you come back at a later date?

7. Will you still attend NCFC home matches when possible?

8. Are you prepared to give some money as a gift to buy players? How much? When?

9. How do you feel about the way things ended?

OTBC

[LinkNR9 0]

And you believe what Doncaster said, do you?

[Branston Pickle 4,145]

It seems that everyone believes 100% everything that Cullum has stated in his EDP articles, for some reason, but that we shouldn''t believe a word that comes from the club.  That is interesting but also very sad.

[ricardo 8,033]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]It seems that everyone believes 100% everything that Cullum has stated in his EDP articles, for some reason, but that we shouldn''t believe a word that comes from the club.  That is interesting but also very sad.[/quote]

True, but people learn by past experience who to trust.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]It seems that everyone believes 100% everything that Cullum has stated in his EDP articles, for some reason, but that we shouldn''t believe a word that comes from the club.  That is interesting but also very sad.[/quote]

The trouble is though Branston, Delia and Doncaster have a proven history of lying to the fans!.[:S]

[Branston Pickle 4,145]

...fine - tbh I don''t actually remember being lied to by the club....but what exactly has Cullum done to earn our trust?

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

So maybe the problem isnt Cullum or Delia.  Maybe the problem is AXA being stuborn with regard to the debt.  Cant see why they wouldnt renegotiate, unless Towergate have stood on toes in the past and this is high end business muscle flexing.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Doncaster and Delia have got away with lying to us for years, are people still going to just roll over and accept it!

[William Darby 0]

If Cullum buys AXA...

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]It seems that everyone believes 100% everything that Cullum has stated in his EDP articles, for some reason, but that we shouldn''t believe a word that comes from the club.  That is interesting but also very sad.[/quote]

The trouble is though Branston, Delia and Doncaster have a proven history of lying to the fans!.[:S]

[/quote]

Were they lying or were they just changing thier minds? As this boards king of the flip-flop I''m sure you''ll agree that everyone has a right to?

 

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Carlos Valderrama"]So maybe the problem isnt Cullum or Delia.  Maybe the problem is AXA being stuborn with regard to the debt.  Cant see why they wouldnt renegotiate, unless Towergate have stood on toes in the past and this is high end business muscle flexing.[/quote]

It''s only a thought but Britain is in credit crunch time and heading for a recession the like of which you young folk will never have experienced.  I think if I was AXA I would take this opportunity to get all the money back and get out of football.

[whoareyou? 0]

Axa and Towergate are in the same industry! Maybe even competitors in some way?

It''s also possible Axa don''t want to be associated with Aviva in any way, as they are also rivals for the same business!

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="A Load of Squit"]

As this boards king of the flip-flop I''m sure you''ll agree that everyone has a right to?

 

[/quote]

A bit of an over-used myth Squity.

As my intense loathing of Smith and the board will atest! likewise, crap signings and loans..........still you keep fooling yourself, you''''re bloody good at that!.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="A Load of Squit"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]It seems that everyone believes 100% everything that Cullum has stated in his EDP articles, for some reason, but that we shouldn''t believe a word that comes from the club.  That is interesting but also very sad.[/quote]

The trouble is though Branston, Delia and Doncaster have a proven history of lying to the fans!.[:S]

[/quote]

Were they lying or were they just changing thier minds? As this boards king of the flip-flop I''m sure you''ll agree that everyone has a right to?

 

[/quote]

Ok classsic example.

On relegation from the premiership Deelia and Doncaster told fans not to worry because no players had relegation release clauses.......6 days later Matty Svensson left because......he had a relegation release clause!

Do you want anymore?

[Ex-greenoschin 0]

Ok  I accept you beleive the Board lie the minute they open their mouths - no concrete proof but it''s your opinion - fair enough.

So being such a sceptic why are you happy to accept 100% what Cullum is saying/doing without question and surely with your pedigree of scepticism you wouldn''t sell your sole to someone just because he waves a fat cheque at you and not question his side, or are you blindly going to fawn to him until he proves you wrong? Hypothetical question I know!

OTBC

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="Ex-greenoschin"]

Ok  I accept you beleive the Board lie the minute they open their mouths - no concrete proof but it''s your opinion - fair enough.

So being such a sceptic why are you happy to accept 100% what Cullum is saying/doing without question and surely with your pedigree of scepticism you wouldn''t sell your sole to someone just because he waves a fat cheque at you and not question his side, or are you blindly going to fawn to him until he proves you wrong? Hypothetical question I know!

OTBC

[/quote]

Local lad, NCFC season ticket holder, played for the club at youth level, successful, what more can you ask for?

[KenBrown 0]

There are no so blind who dont want to seeOf course there is only one side to the story - Cullums  He is the saviour - right

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"][quote user="Ex-greenoschin"]

Ok  I accept you beleive the Board lie the minute they open their mouths - no concrete proof but it''s your opinion - fair enough.

So being such a sceptic why are you happy to accept 100% what Cullum is saying/doing without question and surely with your pedigree of scepticism you wouldn''t sell your sole to someone just because he waves a fat cheque at you and not question his side, or are you blindly going to fawn to him until he proves you wrong? Hypothetical question I know!

OTBC

[/quote]

Local lad, NCFC season ticket holder, played for the club at youth level, successful, what more can you ask for?

[/quote]

I am sure he is lovely but in business he still shafts people.  At least early on he built Towergate by buying small specialist brokers, many with a small turnover in insurance terms because they covered niche markets - risks that the big companies won''t take because it''s not a big market and it needs specialist knowledge to accept the risk.   He then set about improving their turnover by doubling the premium at renewal time knowing that few, if any, alternatives were available.  Good business, of course but I don''t think the epithet Saint can be applied either to Delia or to Mr Cullum.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"][quote user="A Load of Squit"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]It seems that everyone believes 100% everything that Cullum has stated in his EDP articles, for some reason, but that we shouldn''t believe a word that comes from the club.  That is interesting but also very sad.[/quote]

The trouble is though Branston, Delia and Doncaster have a proven history of lying to the fans!.[:S]

[/quote]

Were they lying or were they just changing thier minds? As this boards king of the flip-flop I''m sure you''ll agree that everyone has a right to?

 

[/quote]

Ok classsic example.

On relegation from the premiership Deelia and Doncaster told fans not to worry because no players had relegation release clauses.......6 days later Matty Svensson left because......he had a relegation release clause!

Do you want anymore?

[/quote]

No he didnt, you just made that up.  Truth is he was knocking on a bit, we got a decent offer and the lad wanted to finish his career back home.  Come on Arthur....

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"][quote user="Ex-greenoschin"]

Ok  I accept you beleive the Board lie the minute they open their mouths - no concrete proof but it''s your opinion - fair enough.

So being such a sceptic why are you happy to accept 100% what Cullum is saying/doing without question and surely with your pedigree of scepticism you wouldn''t sell your sole to someone just because he waves a fat cheque at you and not question his side, or are you blindly going to fawn to him until he proves you wrong? Hypothetical question I know!

OTBC

[/quote]

Local lad, NCFC season ticket holder, played for the club at youth level, successful, what more can you ask for?

[/quote]

 Nothing, he is the perfect investor and ticks all the boxes.  This whole episode is a part of his master plan to get control of the club.  I have seen posts ranging from burn her, she is a money whore, this will be worse than the chase out riots!!  This plays into Cullums hand perfectly.  He is going to force Delia into relinquishing the club on the cheap, by using disgruntled fan power.

[TheCardinal 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]It seems that everyone believes 100% everything that Cullum has stated in his EDP articles, for some reason, but that we shouldn''t believe a word that comes from the club.  That is interesting but also very sad.[/quote]

The trouble is though Branston, Delia and Doncaster have a proven history of lying to the fans!.[:S]

[/quote]Prove it.

[The Judge 0]

Regardless of the facts/basis of Cullums offer or the reasons for Delia''s rationale to decline - the very sad result is that the current board have failed to come to a compromise with the 40th richest man in Britain (and one that meets all Delia''s extremely tight investor criteria to boot!).

As I said on another thread yesterday - in today''s world of football who do NCFC have the best chance of future success under - Peter Cullum worth £1.7bn or Delia Smith worth £20m ?

Fair enough Delia wants her money back and no-one would begrudge her that - and may be Cullum''s offer didn''t allow her to do that. 

Unfortunately, and regardless of the facts, people expectations/hopes were understandably raised by this opportunity and will ultimately blame those failed to make it happen. If we have a poor start to the season, or are unable to bring in some quality signings over the next weeks/months the fingers will point.

I don''t think this is over yet, infact I do believe this is another nail in the current boards coffin. Cullum, has shown his interest, regardless of his initial offer and what it entailed, people will remember this and I do feel that an agreement will  reached in the future whether this be amicable or not. Lets just hope for the future of the club its sooner rather than later and doesn''t get too nasty inbetween.

As to Doncaster''s comments - sorry but every time that man opens his mouth rubbish comes out. Why should we trust Delia Smith ?? - where is this investment she so smuggly talked about at the Royal Norfolk show ?, apparently according to Delia there are no "idiots" who want to invest in championship football clubs ?? They say they are "actively" seeking investment yet what is their track record of bringing money into the club over the last 10 years ? Forgive me for not holding my breath. They constantly used the signing of Hucks as a measure of their great ambitions for this club - yet we now know that if it wasn''t for Carl Moore who helped finance the deal it wouldn''t have happened. We have been promised investment in the team year after year but have made trading profits on player activity for the last 5 seasons. NCFC have made a profit of £10.9m over the last 5 years (one of the best in the whole of England) yet our team and by default our league position has constantly got worse over the same period, whilst any money available (i.e. Premiership money) has been pumped into off field activities (therefore increasing values of shares). I could go on but I think I have proved my point.

Delia etc have got to produce something, and something pretty special in the next few weeks to appease the fans - otherwise fans will turn - and unfortunately for them - rightly so in my opinion.  

[TheCardinal 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"][quote user="Ex-greenoschin"]

Ok  I accept you beleive the Board lie the minute they open their mouths - no concrete proof but it''s your opinion - fair enough.

So being such a sceptic why are you happy to accept 100% what Cullum is saying/doing without question and surely with your pedigree of scepticism you wouldn''t sell your sole to someone just because he waves a fat cheque at you and not question his side, or are you blindly going to fawn to him until he proves you wrong? Hypothetical question I know!

OTBC

[/quote]

Local lad, NCFC season ticket holder, played for the club at youth level, successful, what more can you ask for?

[/quote]Someone that will address all of the clubs problems and not just think he can get majority shareholding in the club for a £20mil short term injection.

[renegade tootsie 0]

This is a good point and one nobody could see being a sticking point, it seems odd they would call in the loan.[quote user="Carlos Valderrama"]So maybe the problem isnt Cullum or Delia.  Maybe the problem is AXA being stuborn with regard to the debt.  Cant see why they wouldnt renegotiate, unless Towergate have stood on toes in the past and this is high end business muscle flexing.[/quote]

[renegade tootsie 0]

I certainly do not subscibe to this.  Cullum is a hard businessman.  Delia is not the saviour and neither is Cullum.  My concern is that this has been going on since last October and Delia took a share issue around that time.  That to me is suspicious - what were her motives?I also believe Cullum has gone back to regroup.  Why up his offer when anyone can see that by Christmas we could be staring relegation in the face again - then he could come back with a slightly imporved offer, Delia would snatch his hands off and he would become the saviour.Or perhaps he felt obliged to make an offer but his heart was not in it?  But then he would never have stepped forward again after being refused last October surely?

[quote user="KenBrown"]There are no so blind who dont want to seeOf course there is only one side to the story - Cullums  He is the saviour - right[/quote]

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="Carlos Valderrama"][quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"][quote user="A Load of Squit"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]It seems that everyone believes 100% everything that Cullum has stated in his EDP articles, for some reason, but that we shouldn''t believe a word that comes from the club.  That is interesting but also very sad.[/quote]

The trouble is though Branston, Delia and Doncaster have a proven history of lying to the fans!.[:S]

[/quote]

Were they lying or were they just changing thier minds? As this boards king of the flip-flop I''m sure you''ll agree that everyone has a right to?

 

[/quote]

Ok classsic example.

On relegation from the premiership Deelia and Doncaster told fans not to worry because no players had relegation release clauses.......6 days later Matty Svensson left because......he had a relegation release clause!

Do you want anymore?

[/quote]

No he didnt, you just made that up.  Truth is he was knocking on a bit, we got a decent offer and the lad wanted to finish his career back home.  Come on Arthur....

[/quote]

No, i didnt and im sure the web team can drag up an article to prove me right. I remember this well as it was the moment I lost any trust in the board. If you dont like facts just say so, but lying im not.

Also do you think im lying about this.

Neil Doncaster came out and said after we had played West Ham in the FA cup, that Dean Ashton was injured and we had and no contact with West Ham, it later transpired that Dean didnt play because West Ham insisted he wasnt cup tied. But let me guess i made that up aswell and Doncaster is always straight with us eh? Head in sand comes to mind.

[renegade tootsie 0]

SO what is your issue with that should it happen?  Who cares if he gets the club on the cheap - whose loss is it?  NOt the fans - they would see money put in to the team and someone at the helm with the ABILITY to bale out any situation that might occur.Why do you care what Delia sells for????[quote user="Carlos Valderrama"][quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"][quote user="Ex-greenoschin"]

Ok  I accept you beleive the Board lie the minute they open their mouths - no concrete proof but it''s your opinion - fair enough.

So being such a sceptic why are you happy to accept 100% what Cullum is saying/doing without question and surely with your pedigree of scepticism you wouldn''t sell your sole to someone just because he waves a fat cheque at you and not question his side, or are you blindly going to fawn to him until he proves you wrong? Hypothetical question I know!

OTBC

[/quote]

Local lad, NCFC season ticket holder, played for the club at youth level, successful, what more can you ask for?

[/quote]

 Nothing, he is the perfect investor and ticks all the boxes.  This whole episode is a part of his master plan to get control of the club.  I have seen posts ranging from burn her, she is a money whore, this will be worse than the chase out riots!!  This plays into Cullums hand perfectly.  He is going to force Delia into relinquishing the club on the cheap, by using disgruntled fan power.

[/quote]

[renegade tootsie 0]

Spot on.  Does anyone disagree with this?[quote user="The Judge"]

Regardless of the facts/basis of Cullums offer or the reasons for Delia''s rationale to decline - the very sad result is that the current board have failed to come to a compromise with the 40th richest man in Britain (and one that meets all Delia''s extremely tight investor criteria to boot!).

As I said on another thread yesterday - in today''s world of football who do NCFC have the best chance of future success under - Peter Cullum worth £1.7bn or Delia Smith worth £20m ?

Fair enough Delia wants her money back and no-one would begrudge her that - and may be Cullum''s offer didn''t allow her to do that. 

Unfortunately, and regardless of the facts, people expectations/hopes were understandably raised by this opportunity and will ultimately blame those failed to make it happen. If we have a poor start to the season, or are unable to bring in some quality signings over the next weeks/months the fingers will point.

I don''t think this is over yet, infact I do believe this is another nail in the current boards coffin. Cullum, has shown his interest, regardless of his initial offer and what it entailed, people will remember this and I do feel that an agreement will  reached in the future whether this be amicable or not. Lets just hope for the future of the club its sooner rather than later and doesn''t get too nasty inbetween.

As to Doncaster''s comments - sorry but every time that man opens his mouth rubbish comes out. Why should we trust Delia Smith ?? - where is this investment she so smuggly talked about at the Royal Norfolk show ?, apparently according to Delia there are no "idiots" who want to invest in championship football clubs ?? They say they are "actively" seeking investment yet what is their track record of bringing money into the club over the last 10 years ? Forgive me for not holding my breath. They constantly used the signing of Hucks as a measure of their great ambitions for this club - yet we now know that if it wasn''t for Carl Moore who helped finance the deal it wouldn''t have happened. We have been promised investment in the team year after year but have made trading profits on player activity for the last 5 seasons. NCFC have made a profit of £10.9m over the last 5 years (one of the best in the whole of England) yet our team and by default our league position has constantly got worse over the same period, whilst any money available (i.e. Premiership money) has been pumped into off field activities (therefore increasing values of shares). I could go on but I think I have proved my point.

Delia etc have got to produce something, and something pretty special in the next few weeks to appease the fans - otherwise fans will turn - and unfortunately for them - rightly so in my opinion.  

[/quote]

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="JC"]
This is a good point and one nobody could see being a sticking point, it seems odd they would call in the loan.

[quote user="Carlos Valderrama"]So maybe the problem isnt Cullum or Delia.  Maybe the problem is AXA being stuborn with regard to the debt.  Cant see why they wouldnt renegotiate, unless Towergate have stood on toes in the past and this is high end business muscle flexing.[/quote][/quote]

As previously posted: under  the standard terms of any business loan, whether the business is large or small, any loans become immediately repayable in full upon any change of ownership whether by sale or takeover. 

[ricardo 8,033]

[quote user="TheMarshmallowMan"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]It seems that everyone believes 100% everything that Cullum has stated in his EDP articles, for some reason, but that we shouldn''t believe a word that comes from the club.  That is interesting but also very sad.[/quote]

The trouble is though Branston, Delia and Doncaster have a proven history of lying to the fans!.[:S]

[/quote]

Prove it.
[/quote]

All transfer money we recieve will be available for new players (Doncaster)

Last season £5 million in £2.2 million out.

But then of course you will argue that we didn''t need to spend it because we weren''t in any trouble!