Norwich fans on autopilot

[Robert N. LiM 4,464]

Really interesting post 6088m Canary. I was an expat for the last three years, so this is my first season watching live football since the Championship year. The difference in atmosphere between then and now is astonishing. I sit in the Lower Barclay and can often hear Lee Clark''s voice booming out over the noise of the crowd, which is acceptable in a pre-season friendly, but in a league game in front of 24,000?Or maybe it''s not so astonishing. Regulars at F(!)CR have seen three consecutive years of mediocre football. In addition, the turnover of the squad has been so great that there is very little relationship between the crowd and the players. "We love you Paul McVeigh" and "He''s here, he''s there, he''s every----ing where, Gary Holt". "England''s No 1" and "Iwwwaaaan". "Morroccan all over the world" and "Oh Huckerby". All gone. Only little Jamie gets a song of his own. It''s no wonder the atmosphere flops when all we have to sing is "Y''army". Even the most amoebic member of the Snakepit gets bored of that after a while.I really hope that GR starts building a team next season, even if it takes him a while. We need some cult heroes to get behind.Oh, and let''s get rid of the seats.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="6088m canary"]

football has always been a working class game, the life and blood of all teams support is the working class. 

[/quote]Working class.http://www.canaries.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetails/0,,10355~1295718,00.htmlAny thoughts?

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]

Working class.

http://www.canaries.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetails/0,,10355~1295718,00.html

Any thoughts?

[/quote]

I agree with a lot of 6o88m canarys post, but football has long ceased to be a game for the working classes. It''s an interesting example that you''ve provided Mister Chops and I very much doubt we''re alone in setting up affinity schemes for the more affluent supporter. I don''t like it and I suspect many on here don''t either but we''re way too far down the line to stop it.

You can trace this all the way back to Italia ''90, Gazzas tears and Pavarotti. The rise of all seater stadia, the formation of The Premiership and the hosting of Euro ''96 helped move the game away from it''s traditional fanbase and into the arms of a new set of fans. It''s no surprise now that clubs court the more affluent business classes such as in the example above and middle class families. They spend more money than a single, working class man (or woman) who spends a couple of hours in the pub down the road with their mates before the match and turns up five minutes before kick off. And ultimately that''s what it all boils down to.....who''s going to generate the most money.

It''s not all bad of course, in a couple of years I''ll be able to take my son and daughter to the game knowing that they''ll be perfectly safe inside the ground, but football has lost a certain something that I don''t think we will ever get back.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Since the arrival of the Opera goers and their dislike for noise in the Jarrold Stand it makes it awkward to voice one''s support for the team..

 

 

IT''s THE TEAM, STUPID!

[astrodyne 0]

Slightly off topic I know...

However, I reckon it would be really interesting to compare the survival off two different clubs.

One such as ours, with a large contingent of non playing staff - whose job it is to eke every last penny from the middle class types it tries to desperately attract, in a frenzied bid to keep themselves in a job and the club solvent(ish).

Or one with a much, much leaner infrastructure and a large fervent (working class?) fan-base - prepared to spend their last penny to keep the club solvent(ish).

Is it possible that the second club could survive?  

[NCFC_Shaun 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Did nobody in the Snake Pit have the necessary IQ to realise the "what''s it like to see a crowd?" chant was totally pointless?

[/quote]

 

If you actually sat in the snake pit .. which you clearly dont. you would realise this is a kind of private joke between everyone in the snake pit of one man who always stood up and pointed singing ''whats it like to see a crowd'' everygame. so now when the attendance is announced everybody starts going ''oooooohhhhhh..'' and builds it up until he starts the song..

[Jim Smith 2,339]

As mentioned in the post above one of the biggest problems of late is the loss of so many of the popular players and with them a lack of chants as well. Carrow Road is too prone to the "seal" effect at present where people just sit and clap along to yellow army. That and Glen Roeder''s green yellow army are good chants to get things going but need to be interspersed with other chants and we need to get some good old fashioned spontinaety (sp?) back into our chants and the banter with the away fans. I think for next campaign (once we know who our players will be) we need to have a real drive to come up with some new chants for various players (the Otsemabor chant is a good start).

I don''t think the seats have had that much impact. During the playoff season and the champ season the atmosphere at CR was just as good if not better than it use to be back in the late 80'' and 90''s although admittedly the enjoyable laddishness has gone out of parts of it.

On saturday, however, there is no excuse for a poor atmospehere and we must all do our best to get things going right from the off.

PS I am one of the Barclay lower "lads" who goes to the bar before half time. If the service at the bar was quicker i would not need to but probably still would on occasion as the  time we go to the bar is actually a fairly accurate barometer of how dire the football is at CR. In the dark days of Worthy and Grant we often found ourselves yearning for the bar after 25 minutes and down there not long after! Sometimes i''m afraid the football is so bad I just can''t bear to watch it!

 

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

As mentioned in the post above one of the biggest problems of late is the loss of so many of the popular players and with them a lack of chants as well. Carrow Road is too prone to the "seal" effect at present where people just sit and clap along to yellow army. That and Glen Roeder''s green yellow army are good chants to get things going but need to be interspersed with other chants and we need to get some good old fashioned spontinaety (sp?) back into our chants and the banter with the away fans. I think for next campaign (once we know who our players will be) we need to have a real drive to come up with some new chants for various players (the Otsemabor chant is a good start).

I don''t think the seats have had that much impact. During the playoff season and the champ season the atmosphere at CR was just as good if not better than it use to be back in the late 80'' and 90''s although admittedly the enjoyable laddishness has gone out of parts of it.

On saturday, however, there is no excuse for a poor atmospehere and we must all do our best to get things going right from the off.

PS I am one of the Barclay lower "lads" who goes to the bar before half time. If the service at the bar was quicker i would not need to but probably still would on occasion as the  time we go to the bar is actually a fairly accurate barometer of how dire the football is at CR. In the dark days of Worthy and Grant we often found ourselves yearning for the bar after 25 minutes and down there not long after! Sometimes i''m afraid the football is so bad I just can''t bear to watch it!

 

[/quote]

where abouts in the bar do u go? I go to the middle bit and get to the front of the queue almost immediately... and i get down there after the HT whistle is blown

jas :)

[gazzathegreat 0]

I find myself agreeing with many posts on here and it''s been a very interesting thread to read.

I guess when I first went along I was middle class (1970). My family all were, but my dad wanted to take me and my brother to football. Okay we started in the River End, and were not allowed into the Barclay until old enough to go on our own.

I am now in the L Barclay out of choice, although have been in every stand (and family areas) over the past decades. Sure the Barclay isn''t what it was, but the same could be said for most grounds. How many Prem games do you watch and there is silence (and plenty of empty seats)?

The player chants is insightful. Having thought about it, yes, I can see that this does have a lot to do with our songbook. I feel out of touch with the majority of the team at the moment. Come to think of it, most of them won''t be at CR after Saturday anyway. When we had the promotion team I can only think of Drury who didn''t have a song. Contrast that to now. Who gets songs these days, Hucks, Dion, Jamie C, Doc, Lee Croft, Semmy. Sometimes Marshall. I struggle to think of any after those. Perhaps in the next couple of seasons we will get some new heroes, but I fear we are now entering a new culture of loans for a season (cheaper and less risk).

Not sure about the seats; I personally prefer to stand and do so (on the back row, so not spoiling it for anyone). That''s just me. I am not a stereotypical Barclay boy and never have been, but have sung along with them all. It is frustrating, where I am we do have a hardcore of those who start off chants, but the only one which really gets everyone going is OTBC and y''army.

As for the bar, Jim is right, to get served you have to leave before half time. The service or lack of it can be sorted out by the club. Can they sort out the lack of atmosphere (a consequence of our position in the league). I won''t hold my breath.

[scott 0]

The Barclay and snakepit are still very vocal though I''ve always found that when its sunny the Barclay looks directly into the sun and sometimes this nullifys the atmosphere!

 

As everybody know the Barclay lower tier should be a standing area with terracing, now that would help the atmosphere no end!

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="ipswichrscum"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Did nobody in the Snake Pit have the necessary IQ to realise the "what''s it like to see a crowd?" chant was totally pointless?[/quote]

 

If you actually sat in the snake pit .. which you clearly dont.

[/quote]No, but I am working on my ASBO and should qualify for next season.

[SuperWesIrishWizard 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ipswichrscum"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Did nobody in the Snake Pit have the necessary IQ to realise the "what''s it like to see a crowd?" chant was totally pointless?

[/quote]

 

If you actually sat in the snake pit .. which you clearly dont.

[/quote]

No, but I am working on my ASBO and should qualify for next season.

[/quote]

You what?!? I know a Barrister and a General Practitioner that sit in the snakepit son.

[Mister Chops 7]

Surely that''s because they need a lawyer and doctor on hand?

 

[Albyella 0]

Interesting post - I started in the River End with my Dad, eventually progressed to the Barclay in the mid 70''s. Moved away from Norfolk in mid 80''s and now get to quite a few away games with my son, but home games maybe 3-4 times a year. I have to say that I enjoy the away games more simply because of the atmosphere that is created by the NCFC supporters at away matches - my son also enjoys the away matches for the atmosphere, but of course loves going to CR (as do I). However, the home atmosphere is different now to 20-odd years ago, but I am sure that is down to all-seating. The passion is still there, this is very evident at away games - but away from home it is always a "challenge" to be vociferous and shame the home supporters - it''s the same everywhere, and for every club. BUT, we do still maintain (in fact have grown) our fan base - something many clubs cannot claim - and actually if I personally had to make a decision between quantity of supporters or the volume generated, then I would go for quantity (both would be better)